New VW Amorok Revealed

[Captainp4]

16 hours ago, bzcat said:

 

Are you talking about the sail panel behind the cab? That's carryover from the Ranger Wildtrak... Kind of a signature look actually on the most expensive Ranger outside North America.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, not a fan of that look on pickups

[jpd80]

47 minutes ago, Captainp4 said:

Yeah, not a fan of that look on pickups

Agree, makes them look like show ponies and tends to me more model or location specific,

almost all of the XLTs I see and Raptors don’t have it.

[akirby]

I’ve seen it on Canyorados too.

[AM222]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:09 AM, akirby said:

Same size as the current Ranger.

The relocated outboard rear shocks and wider tracks allowed Ford to increase the space between the rear wheel wells. Supposedly this was a request/requirement of VW since the 1st gen Amarok could fit a European pallet flat between the wheel wells and the outgoing Ranger couldn't.

[jpd80]

21 hours ago, AM222 said:

The relocated outboard rear shocks and wider tracks allowed Ford to increase the space between the rear wheel wells. Supposedly this was a request/requirement of VW since the 1st gen Amarok could fit a European pallet flat between the wheel wells and the outgoing Ranger couldn't.

Not true,

VW was blown away when it saw what Ford was planning with next Gen Ranger. The outboard shocks came from current Generation Ranger Raptor and was the prelude for making the next generation much wider and more space efficient. It was those features that put the Ranger over the top as a next Gen Amorok replacement.

Edited July 12, 2022 by jpd80

[AM222]

49 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

Not true,

VW was blown away when it saw what Ford was planning with next Gen Ranger. The outboard shocks came from current Generation Ranger Raptor and was the prelude for making the next generation much wider and more space efficient. It was those features that put the Ranger over the top as a next Gen Amorok replacement.

The Ranger Raptor, both outgoing and the new gen share a similar reshaped frame that allows the shocks (which sit within the rear coil springs) to be positioned where the chassis rails would be in a normal Ranger.

Edited July 12, 2022 by AM222

[jpd80]

28 minutes ago, AM222 said:

The Ranger Raptor, both outgoing and the new gen share a similar reshaped frame that allows the shocks (which sit within the rear coil springs) to be positioned where the chassis rails would be in a normal Ranger.
 

And that idea was inspiration for placing on the outboard side of the frame like the full size F150

they took the idea further…without the help of the Germans.

Edited July 12, 2022 by jpd80

[AM222]

46 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

And that idea was inspiration for placing on the outboard side of the frame like the full size F150

they took the idea further…without the help of the Germans.

I'm aware Ford did the engineering. It's interesting to know that VW was already working with Ford on this project as far back as 2017, years before the Ford-VW joint projects even became public. They first talked to Ford about the Amarok-based Ranger sometime in 2016.

Edited July 12, 2022 by AM222

[jpd80]

58 minutes ago, AM222 said:

It's interesting to know that VW was already working with Ford on this project as far back as 2017.

No they weren’t. VW came to Ford knowing that big fines over dieselgate were coming and wanted to outsource both larger van and Amorok which shared a lot of parts, the plan was to get rid of Hanover plant and their plant in South America (Amorok). They liked Transit but were absolutely blown away by next Gen Ranger.

Edited July 12, 2022 by jpd80

[AM222]

21 minutes ago, jpd80 said:

No they weren’t.

It was according to Ian Foston, the Ford T6 chief platform engineer.

[jpd80]

56 minutes ago, AM222 said:

It was according to Ian Foston, the Ford T6 chief platform engineer.

Sorry, This is the article that you were talking about, I was told part of this story in confidence back in 2018. If you read the article He didn’t actually say that VW was working on the project in 2017, but I can see how you formed that opinion by the way two sentences were place d close together….

 

And now that the story is out, things makes a lot of sense, you’ll see the parts of the story I was told….

but understand that the Ranger was set and the only changes requested were to tweak what they wanted for Amorok which is understandable but to a large degree, they were very comfortable with what the T6 team was already doing.

Remember that Bronco was first T6 vehicle developed then Ranger so we’re talking somewhere in 2018 or later for lock in of Ranger design, that when VW first saw it….

 

So please, re read this article while understanding my context and what was shared with me…

 

Family affair: How the Ford and Volkswagen ute deal was done

The landmark deal between Ford and Volkswagen to partner on their next-generation pick-ups began at the highest levels of both companies – with a family catch-up.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/family-affair-how-the-ford-and-volkswagen-ute-deal-was-done/

 

The initial meeting between the two families – to discuss a model-sharing arrangement on utes, vans and electric cars – happened some time in 2015 or 2016, Drive has been told.

 

It was about “six to 12 months” after Ford had already started working on the Ranger and had locked in key changes – such as chassis, engines and safety technology – for its new-generation model. 

 

“I was told the two families had a conversation and during that time (Volkswagen) reached out to us for a global pick-up,” Ian Foston, the chief engineer for the new Ford Ranger, told Drive at a media preview this week.

“They had a conversation as Volkswagen at that time decided they wanted to investigate the possibility of a relationship between the two companies, especially around commercial vehicles,” said Mr Foston. 

“At the time they didn’t necessarily want to do the next Amarok on their own (for reasons of cost and the focus on electrification across the automotive industry), and they said to us that we were the only company they would consider partnering with.
 

Once the deal was agreed, their head of vehicle programs contacted me and my boss at the time, and that’s when the relationship started.”
 

Mr Foston said the Ford Ranger had been “locked in” about six months to a year before the approach from Volkswagen. 

But, as it happened, the changes suited Volkswagen down to the ground.

 

“They (Volkswagen) were very respectful about what we’d done on new Ranger. They really appreciated the performance of the vehicles, and they very much wanted that relationship with us where they knew that what we were going to deliver on our next generation was going to be similar to what they also wanted. So it was a win-win for both parties.”

Mr Foston said the program and the partnership has run smoothly over the past five years or so during development.

“It was very collaborative and very cohesive,” said Mr Foston. “Once we’d signed all the non-disclosure agreements, and we showed them what we were doing, they were honestly delighted.

 

“They said, ‘if we were going to develop a new product, we would have done the same thing’. So it was a hugely compatible partnership.”

 

As Drive has previously reported, although the new Volkswagen Amarok will be based on the new Ford Ranger and built on the same production line in South Africa (Australia-bound examples of the new Ford Ranger will be built in Thailand, as is the case today), the two vehicles will look and feel different.

“Because Volkswagen was also very keen to make the Amarok fully differentiated (from the Ranger) there was never any tension between us,” said Mr Foston. “The new Amarok was never going to be a rebadged version of a Ranger. There is so much more that goes into vehicles like this.”

After describing the new-generation Volkswagen Amarok as a “fully-differentiated sibling vehicle” last year, during a media preview this week Mr Foston went into more detail about just how unique the two vehicles will be.

“When you drive the new Amarok it very much feels like a Volkswagen,” Mr Foston told Drive.

“I’m the chief engineer for that program as well, they (Volkswagen) give us the responsibility for the engineering and the manufacturing though they are very much in charge of their own design and what they want in terms of the DNA of the vehicle. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by jpd80

[AM222]

3 hours ago, jpd80 said:

Sorry, This is the article that you were talking about, I was told part of this story in confidence back in 2018. If you read the article He didn’t actually say that VW was working on the project in 2017, but I can see how you formed that opinion by the way two sentences were place d close together….

 

And now that the story is out, things makes a lot of sense, you’ll see the parts of the story I was told….

but understand that the Ranger was set and the only changes requested were to tweak what they wanted for Amorok which is understandable but to a large degree, they were very comfortable with what the T6 team was already doing.

Remember that Bronco was first T6 vehicle developed then Ranger so we’re talking somewhere in 2018 or later for lock in of Ranger design, that when VW first saw it….

 

So please, re read this article while understanding my context and what was shared with me…

 

Family affair: How the Ford and Volkswagen ute deal was done

The landmark deal between Ford and Volkswagen to partner on their next-generation pick-ups began at the highest levels of both companies – with a family catch-up.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/family-affair-how-the-ford-and-volkswagen-ute-deal-was-done/

 

The initial meeting between the two families – to discuss a model-sharing arrangement on utes, vans and electric cars – happened some time in 2015 or 2016, Drive has been told.

 

It was about “six to 12 months” after Ford had already started working on the Ranger and had locked in key changes – such as chassis, engines and safety technology – for its new-generation model. 

 

“I was told the two families had a conversation and during that time (Volkswagen) reached out to us for a global pick-up,” Ian Foston, the chief engineer for the new Ford Ranger, told Drive at a media preview this week.

“They had a conversation as Volkswagen at that time decided they wanted to investigate the possibility of a relationship between the two companies, especially around commercial vehicles,” said Mr Foston. 

“At the time they didn’t necessarily want to do the next Amarok on their own (for reasons of cost and the focus on electrification across the automotive industry), and they said to us that we were the only company they would consider partnering with.
 

Once the deal was agreed, their head of vehicle programs contacted me and my boss at the time, and that’s when the relationship started.”
 

Mr Foston said the Ford Ranger had been “locked in” about six months to a year before the approach from Volkswagen. 

But, as it happened, the changes suited Volkswagen down to the ground.

 

“They (Volkswagen) were very respectful about what we’d done on new Ranger. They really appreciated the performance of the vehicles, and they very much wanted that relationship with us where they knew that what we were going to deliver on our next generation was going to be similar to what they also wanted. So it was a win-win for both parties.”

Mr Foston said the program and the partnership has run smoothly over the past five years or so during development.

“It was very collaborative and very cohesive,” said Mr Foston. “Once we’d signed all the non-disclosure agreements, and we showed them what we were doing, they were honestly delighted.

 

“They said, ‘if we were going to develop a new product, we would have done the same thing’. So it was a hugely compatible partnership.”

 

As Drive has previously reported, although the new Volkswagen Amarok will be based on the new Ford Ranger and built on the same production line in South Africa (Australia-bound examples of the new Ford Ranger will be built in Thailand, as is the case today), the two vehicles will look and feel different.

“Because Volkswagen was also very keen to make the Amarok fully differentiated (from the Ranger) there was never any tension between us,” said Mr Foston. “The new Amarok was never going to be a rebadged version of a Ranger. There is so much more that goes into vehicles like this.”

After describing the new-generation Volkswagen Amarok as a “fully-differentiated sibling vehicle” last year, during a media preview this week Mr Foston went into more detail about just how unique the two vehicles will be.

“When you drive the new Amarok it very much feels like a Volkswagen,” Mr Foston told Drive.

“I’m the chief engineer for that program as well, they (Volkswagen) give us the responsibility for the engineering and the manufacturing though they are very much in charge of their own design and what they want in terms of the DNA of the vehicle. 

 

 

 

It was from an earlier interview.

“It wasn’t really long after we started the work on the next generation platform for T6, or the third-generation platform, that we actually got contact from Volkswagen,” said Ford T6 chief platform engineer, Ian Foston.

“Probably in about 2016, late 2016, we had first contact and it was more of an exploratory relationship discussion, on a very high level,” he said. “We didn’t start in anger, in terms of doing any engineering with them until probably mid, mid-to-late 2017 – once we got some commercial agreements in place.”

- https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/volkswagen-deeply-embedded-in-ranger-development-program-since-2016

Edited July 12, 2022 by AM222
Added link

[jpd80]

7 hours ago, AM222 said:

It was from an earlier interview.

“It wasn’t really long after we started the work on the next generation platform for T6, or the third-generation platform, that we actually got contact from Volkswagen,” said Ford T6 chief platform engineer, Ian Foston.

“Probably in about 2016, late 2016, we had first contact and it was more of an exploratory relationship discussion, on a very high level,” he said. “We didn’t start in anger, in terms of doing any engineering with them until probably mid, mid-to-late 2017 – once we got some commercial agreements in place.”

- https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/volkswagen-deeply-embedded-in-ranger-development-program-since-2016

I think Ian F is being a little generous in his comments regarding VW engineering input.

While there may have been discussion back in 2017 on product envelope decisions, you can see that in the article I quoted that he  qualified his earlier statements by saying that VW weren’t shown the Ranger until 6 or 12 months after design lock in which is well into the project and that they liked what they saw. The important point here was that Ian F was the chief platform engineer for both the Ranger and the Amorok which came much later but even then, all of VW’s desired changes were discussed with Ian F and he and the T6 team made them happen on the Amorok. Things like outboard Rear shock absorbers we’re already baked into the Ranger and Amorok DNA……I’ll admit those could have been early discussion point but something Ford was already planning to do, in any case, VW said that it would have done exactly the same things Ford did.

Also,

Think about the time line, Ranger’s “design lock in” normally happens about two years before the new Ranger is launched, even with some delay due to covid, that means that VW weren’t shown the Ranger design until much later than 2017, more like 2018 or 2019. The point I’m making was that Ranger an Amorok were both all Ford design with Amorok getting changes via wishes and objectives expressed by VW being developed by the Ford team.

 

Sorry, I shouldn’t get so passionate over this.

Edited July 12, 2022 by jpd80