Another D3 based car?

[silvrsvt]

I was reading over on the employee board about CAP going down to one shift that the Bodyshop was putting in new tooling for 2 more products to be built there. The MKS is a given, but I wonder what the other one is going to be? Before you say Mercury Freestyle, its nothing more then a Freestyle with a different front end and wouldn't need any new line space, just like the Montego and 500.

[NLPRacing]

I was reading over on the employee board about CAP going down to one shift that the Bodyshop was putting in new tooling for 2 more products to be built there. The MKS is a given, but I wonder what the other one is going to be? Before you say Mercury Freestyle, its nothing more then a Freestyle with a different front end and wouldn't need any new line space, just like the Montego and 500.

 

Would it be the "People Mover Formerly Known As Fairlane"?

[igor]

Fairlane and its Lincoln counterpart are going to Oakville.

 

Chicago is to get 2 more D3 vehicles ... 2 sedans actually ... the second vehicle has been an unknownd ever since the uber-MKS was canned ... some people speculate it's Mazda9

 

Igor

Edited October 18, 2006 by igor

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I thought that the P.M.F.K.A.F. was going to the plant that was building the minivans at present.

 

(P.M.F.K.A.F. = People Mover Formerly Known As Fairlane)

[Swizco]

I thought that the P.M.F.K.A.F. was going to the plant that was building the minivans at present.

 

(P.M.F.K.A.F. = People Mover Formerly Known As Fairlane)

 

The PMFKAF will be built at OAP as an early '09. That other D car might be the next Explorer, and it pains me to say that.

[silvrsvt]

The PMFKAF will be built at OAP as an early '09. That other D car might be the next Explorer, and it pains me to say that.

 

 

Then what hell is the sense of having a Fairlane/Freestyle/Explorer all on the same platform? Then you can kiss LAP away too if that happens...

 

Does CAP even have the capacity to make 400K units a year?

[NLPRacing]

Fairlane and its Lincoln counterpart are going to Oakville.

 

Chicago is to get 2 more D3 vehicles ... 2 sedans actually ... the second vehicle has been an unknownd ever since the uber-MKS was canned ... some people speculate it's Mazda9

 

Igor

 

A Mazda9? Kind of makes sense I guess, but I hardly see a D3 keeping in the Mazda "zoom zoom" image, unless it gets a turbo engine like the others (MS3, MS6, CX7, etc.). A 3.5TT Mazda9 would be pretty "zoom zoom".

[Blue II]

A second Lincoln sedan is planned.

[Watchdevil]

A Mazda9? Kind of makes sense I guess, but I hardly see a D3 keeping in the Mazda "zoom zoom" image, unless it gets a turbo engine like the others (MS3, MS6, CX7, etc.). A 3.5TT Mazda9 would be pretty "zoom zoom".

 

You ask me and I think the new MKS looks more like a Mazda than a Lincoln anyway. Slap a Mazda grille on it and it pretty much could be a Mazda 9...

[NLPRacing]

A second Lincoln sedan is planned.

 

Are you sure? I thought they cancelled the "larger than MKS" sedan when they cancelled the Ford version of the Yamavolvo V8 due to the mod not fitting in the D3. I also thought the next sedan (and maybe a coupe too) for Lincoln would would be based on the RWD architecture that Ford of Australia is currently working on. I could be wrong, but I hope not. People aren't going buy a "larger than MKS" FWD Lincoln with a V6 in it, even if it was turbo.

[RichardJensen]

Are you sure? I thought they cancelled the "larger than MKS" sedan when they cancelled the Ford version of the Yamavolvo V8 due to the mod not fitting in the D3. I also thought the next sedan (and maybe a coupe too) for Lincoln would would be based on the RWD architecture that Ford of Australia is currently working on. I could be wrong, but I hope not. People aren't going buy a "larger than MKS" FWD Lincoln with a V6 in it, even if it was turbo.

This 'E' class Lincoln will probably sell in sufficiently small volume to justify purchase of the Yamaha powerplant, instead of manufacturing it (especially if it offers the top engine choice for the MKS as its base offering). Unlike these putative Falcon based Lincolns, this E-sized D3 will be based on an honest to goodness luxury car platform and will not parade sporting intentions, and should be more capable of commanding a $45-50k price than a Falcon based model that might pass for something of a sports tourer, except every nose-in-the air wine-cork sniffing knob that ever thought the sun rose on the 545 and set on the 760 will trash this Lincoln as a working class pretender in fancy clothes, and Lincoln will establish no cred whatsoever. At least Caddy got their own platform.

 

BTW, I'm talking perception, not actual performance, and perception is not easy to change. For the better at least.

[Edgey]

The MKS will have to slot above the MKZ at about 35-45K. A super sedan will probably sticker 45-55K and I don't know if Lincoln can support a sedan in that price range. Lincoln doesn't need three large luxury sedans and I'm sure that is why they've suspended plans to expand beyond MKS. The large car market is extremely soft and there is not enough pent up demand anymore. Just think, if Lincoln can't spend the money to better differentiate its volume leaders, I doubt we will get 2 big sedans that are completely unique.

Edited October 19, 2006 by Edgey

[RichardJensen]

The MKS will have to slot above the MKZ at about 35-45K. A super sedan will probably sticker 45-50K and I don't know if Lincoln can support a vehicle in that price range. Lincoln doesn't need three large luxury sedans and I'm sure that is why they've suspended plans to expand beyond MKS. The large car market is extremely soft and there is not enough pent up demand anymore.

Uh Blue II, who works for Ford says otherwise.

 

And this 'E' class Lincoln (which will be a budget Phantom, in terms of accoutrements and gadgetry), will not sell in substantial volume, and it will do just fine because it's nothing but a stretched MKS structurally, with the XC90 powertrain built alongside three or four other products at Chicago.

 

This is the retail successor to the Town Car.

[Edgey]

Uh Blue II, who works for Ford says otherwise.

 

And this 'E' class Lincoln (which will be a budget Phantom, in terms of accoutrements and gadgetry), will not sell in substantial volume, and it will do just fine because it's nothing but a stretched MKS structurally, with the XC90 powertrain built alongside three or four other products at Chicago.

 

This is the retail successor to the Town Car.

 

 

Ahh, I get it then. It's like an MKS L. Not really a different car but a different config.

[RichardJensen]

Ahh, I get it then. It's like an MKS L. Not really a different car but a different config.

It will likely have more conservative styling, and will angle toward luxury buyers, as opposed to performance buyers.

 

Say you give luxury car ($40-$50k) buyers a set of scales, from 0-10, to rate such factors as premium materials, technology, performance, and safety. Then you tell the customer that they can only assign, say 15 points total (e.g. 10 points for peformance, means only five points to split between materials, safety, and technology)

 

The MKS buyer would have higher ratings for performance than luxury, the "Continental" buyer would have a higher rating for luxury than performance.

 

Both buyers would weight luxury ahead of, and performance below, where a typical BMW buyer would rate these things.

 

This is an extremely unscientific approximation of what Ford would do when researching how to position this large Lincoln, but it is in the ball park. You would conduct such surveys to figure out if your target market has enough consumers, or essentially, where the consumers are. The key would be to find a group of customers with similar answers that you can design a car for.

 

Once Ford has defined the rough operating parameters of this luxury Lincoln, they create some interior mockups and prototypes and conduct studies to determine if their potential customers feel that this material or that gadget meets their definition of expected luxury/technology/whatever. They find potential customers whose preferences match those that the vehicle was designed for, and see what they think.

 

At each step, the vehicle should move farther from concept and closer to reality. Each study should solicit feedback on a vehicle that is closer to production.

 

Researchers and team members also spend time with potential customers apart from time with prototypes to get further insight into how these customers use their current vehicles, what they like, what they don't like, etc.

 

Both in the initial conceptual phase (once you've defined your operating parameters for the vehicle) and throughout the feedback process, you utilize your design and engineering talent to the full by giving them objectives they can work towards, instead of putting them in a vacuum and telling them to think things up.

 

The key is not to diminish the importance of design and engineering talent (the so-called 'car guys') but to properly direct it--to channel it in a direction that leads to products that are consistently what the market wants.

Edited October 19, 2006 by RichardJensen

[calypsocoral]

It will likely have more conservative styling, and will angle toward luxury buyers, as opposed to performance buyers.

 

Say you give luxury car ($40-$50k) buyers a set of scales, from 0-10, to rate such factors as premium materials, technology, performance, and safety. Then you tell the customer that they can only assign, say 15 points total (e.g. 10 points for peformance, means only five points to split between materials, safety, and technology)

 

The MKS buyer would have higher ratings for performance than luxury, the "Continental" buyer would have a higher rating for luxury than performance.

 

Both buyers would weight luxury ahead of, and performance below, where a typical BMW buyer would rate these things.

 

This is an extremely unscientific approximation of what Ford would do when researching how to position this large Lincoln, but it is in the ball park. You would conduct such surveys to figure out if your target market has enough consumers, or essentially, where the consumers are. The key would be to find a group of customers with similar answers that you can design a car for.

 

Once Ford has defined the rough operating parameters of this luxury Lincoln, they create some interior mockups and prototypes and conduct studies to determine if their potential customers feel that this material or that gadget meets their definition of expected luxury/technology/whatever. They find potential customers whose preferences match those that the vehicle was designed for, and see what they think.

 

At each step, the vehicle should move farther from concept and closer to reality. Each study should solicit feedback on a vehicle that is closer to production.

 

Researchers and team members also spend time with potential customers apart from time with prototypes to get further insight into how these customers use their current vehicles, what they like, what they don't like, etc.

 

Both in the initial conceptual phase (once you've defined your operating parameters for the vehicle) and throughout the feedback process, you utilize your design and engineering talent to the full by giving them objectives they can work towards, instead of putting them in a vacuum and telling them to think things up.

 

The key is not to diminish the importance of design and engineering talent (the so-called 'car guys') but to properly direct it--to channel it in a direction that leads to products that are consistently what the market wants.

 

 

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, Richard.

 

Seeing as how this would have been the next Continental, I guess in modern Lincoln lingo this would be the "MkC"?

[RichardJensen]

I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, Richard.

 

Seeing as how this would have been the next Continental, I guess in modern Lincoln lingo this would be the "MkC"?

Thanks. I would like Ford to just call it the Continental.

 

BTW, a lot of companies already do what I described. However, they do so in an attempt to cook up survey results that support this product honcho's gut instinct, or that product czar's idea about the 'next big thing'. The key is to respect the process, and what the process is capable of, instead of using it as a sort of "Supreme Soviet" for legitmizing the party leader's whims.

Edited October 19, 2006 by RichardJensen

[silvrsvt]

Ok Lets do some Math:

 

500/Montego/Freestyle: 200-250K units a year

MKS: 30-50K units a year

MKS L or Continental: up 25K units a year

Total: Looking at 325K units a year at Chicago, provided that every sells as well as expectations...