ford4v429 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 we have had a 19 3.5 lariat since 2018, and in 21 added a 22 lariat...a couple years between the two, thought maybe some real world feedback might be usesful- if anyone from ford actually reads in here anymore... biggest beef between the two trucks: they deleted the fake engine noise and muted the ANC in the 22. had I known they took the V8 sound out, DEFINITELY would not have ordered the 3.5 - coulda got a 5.0 (or a dodge) for less... why in the world woul that NOT be a owners chioce type of thing? adding insult to injury, son bought a 22 bronco 2.7- and bronco has the fake engine noise... yeah, some on the forums complained about the fake engine noise, but again-why not make it selectable? some of us boomers hate the sound of a V6, and petty as it may be, I drive the 19 and love driving it... the 22 reminds me of our windstar :( next biggest beef between the two: the 19 shifter layout is perfect. +/- buttons easy to use, pull back for manual, tap thumb button 5x for sport mode (that should be remembered like seat settings!!!!!) 2/4wheel stays put till you decide to change it. drive the 22- 1) rest arm flat on console, try to fully grasp the shifter- cant be done without lifting elbow as shifter is too short. 2) without looking, pull it into manual real quick- oops gotta look away and find a flush button on console...WTF? 2-b) try using the +/- buttons- oh, now they are above/below and to reach them awkwardly you gotta raise hand up off shifter a little...bad layout. 3) without looking, pop it into sport mode- oops, now its a freaking knob on the dash- look away/twist knob 5 clicks left... 3-b) after sport mode- delay to shift 4 wd, look away again and push the 2wd button...delay for shift this shifter is THE WORST ERGONOMIC DISASTER OF A SHIFTER I HAVE EVER SEEN... the 19 was near perfect 4) was a fluke i guess as its auto-parked twice since(I avoid if possible after first time) but first time at the ATM, i cracked my door open, shifter auto-parked...thought 'thats cool'. grab card, close door, go to put in gear-shit. shifters got a inch of backlash, feels totally busted... dick around with it and finally catch drive- drive home pissed off, but glad it didnt need towed as had read about busted shifters causing no way to drive, some no way to park, and park brake not working becauseits not in gear, crap like that... anyways at home, have son jump out and block the tires in case it wont go into park, he does, i try to shift to park- klunky as heck, but goes into park. get phone out and take video- from park-reverse-neutral-drive...loose as hell, but it shifted... go to put back in park from drive-neutral-neutral-neutral-reverse-park...ok its broke... I remember these things have folding shifter- no 'work surface' so complelely 100% useless feature - try the 'fold' for first time, flops/klunks/clicks then kinda stiffens up and folds forward... hit unfold button, comes back up and sounds like breaking plastic, and 'jumps' like a inch backwards- son of a guy- its tight/shifts normal again...it fixed itself, so fold feature was not useless...its handy after shifter breaks itself :( if I could put the 19s fake engine sound and the 19s shifter in the 22, it would be about perfect...the lane assist works great, the screen is nice... only gripes about the 19: 1) didnt have button for heated wheel 'off'... as workaround, used forscan to add the touchscreen buttons, just tap radio button twice and ots on screen without looking for it... 1-b) used forscan to set wheel heat to medium- still plenty warm, but not so hot you HAVE to be distracted to find button on screen 2) the 2/4 wheel selector knob is not lit...2/4a/4h/4 are illuminated, but cant see position of knob at all... petty, but it does still bug me. all that said, they are both great vehicles for comfort/convenience flipside: phasers at 57k, valve body at 59k, whole transmission at 60k in the 19... knew it was likely to have phaser/tranny/sunroof/IWE issues from reading, and thus it became first vehicle I ever bought extended warranty for... as it needed a $8000.00 transmission at 60,400 miles just months after 4000.00 warranty claim for phasers, it was a good move- but NEVER shoulda been necessary... tell everyone- I love the 19, more than the 22 even- but gotta admit it has been in the shop more than every other car combined ive had the last 40 years... love that truck/hate that truck... plan on keeping it forever, but any faith in it? nope. the 22 at 33k miles has been fine so far, coming up on decision time- buy extended warranty before 36k, or trade it in on something else? jurys still out on that one :( we have had (4) 19 3.5s and the (1)22 3.5 in the immediate family... m 19 needed phasers and transmission, my sons got a brand new engine at 55k...out of 5 trucks- all properly dealer maintained, one grenaded motor(phaser came apart), another needed phasers and a transmission... all under 60k miles??? never ever had a engine issue before, take care of them, they run forever...only tranny issue ever had was a 85 camaro i bought new, 700r4 that year was junk...I replaced 3 busted springs, a governor gear on 4 different occasions in 20 years, finally forward sprag busted, had to pull it clear out for that one- two evenings and 85 bucks, it was good to go again, gave it to a friends daughter 2 yrs later, was still fine. just saying, similar care/use/etc, my opinion on durability is its not good...always been a ford guy- currently have: 65 galaxie(since 2002), 69 mustang(since 1984) ,2002 mercury(since 2015),06 mustang-new, 07 mustang-new, 09 mustang-new- twin to the 06 (undriven-5.5 miles on it), 19 f150 lariat 3.5 new, 22 f150 lariat sport 3.5 new...thats a lot of fords, looks like a dealership :) this year added a 23 challenger widebody, one sons got a 90 mark Vii, and theres a fiero, other son traded in his f150 for the 22 bronco, then due to valve worries in the 2.7, he traded it in on a 23 challenger 1320(before i got mine- he talked me into it), and he just got a 23 colorado trailboss too... sadly hes done with fords...other son still has his f150, with the new engine, but hes wanting to trade it off before engine warranty is up, even though he loves it as much as i do my 19... long term ford family, but man- the engineering failures on these newer trucks, and the ergonomic failings of the 22, and the corporate decision to pull favorite features from f150s(fake engine noise), while adding it to bronco 2.7s was a real letdown- petty as it is, i do not 'enjoy' driving the 22 just because it sounds the way it does...LOVE driving the 19- same truck basically(22 actually has a little more power), but the 19 is luxurious AND sounds great, the 22 is just luxury transportation, meh. kept hoping a over the air update might put sound back, but nope. another thing on the 22- PDI they wrote up driversbeam-bending headlight because frame LEDs flickering- dealer ordered a headlight, took back a week later, no time, as they found it has to be aimed/calibrated...never got around to getting it back, and got a recall for same condition, but no fix/parts available, so cant change the light...also have a old recall for wiper motor failures- took 1.5 years to get parts??? ive had a bottle of rain-x and rags just in case in there forever... whats up with the slow recalls? the new max tow bolts popping off have been going on a year and a half- and testerday finally a recall- but no 'fix', just check/replace till fix is found...another engineering failure? sorry guys, but what the hell is going on in engineering? someones approved the phasers/10r80 valve body spool dimensions-tolerances/axle designs... these are huge black eyes for fords financial flagship... this stuff is gonna sell a lot of other brands if ford dont crack down on durability engineering :( yeah I bitch a lot, but not to bitch- just hoping to get a point across that mistakes being made are not leaving a mark, as far as brand loyalty... the competitions now about just as good... Ford needs to get back to one thing- ITS ALL ABOUT THE PRODUCT. when stuffs not reliable and going for record prices, its unacceptable, period. want to keep customers- up warranty on phasers/10r80s to at least 100k miles- if you guys arent confident your product will make it- fix THAT! if ford dont have the confidence in, OR the willingness to step up, the writings on the wall... i'm old, probably that challenger will be my last new car... but if given the option of any truck produced today, for the first time I can honestly say it wouldnt be a ford, and I hate that...been a ford fan since like junior high school...used to be just rust issues, but they were reliable if taken care of...now? look at that 19: if i dint have the extended warranty that was 12,000.00 of fixes by 60k miles... sorry, but that sucks. sons engine was 13.000 bucks at 55k miles... drive past any dealership and see how many f150s are waiting outside service for 10r80 fixes or phasers... this is minor engineering failures that cost a fortune to fix, and in my opinion is the fastest way to lose loyal customers. please take these problems seriously from your customers standpoints, not from some bean counters actuary table cost projections of hiding behind tsbs till out od warranty vs upping coverage to at least 100k...if ford cant be confident in their products, well, the result should be obvious... bean counters would say 'look- we cant afford to cover these to 100k because were having x% of failures' its up to Ford execs as to if they want to save short term cash, or save the company. its ALL about the product...public peception of that product is priceless. I honestly think 1/4 of the 10r80s wont make it ten years, no matter how maintained or driven... the valves stick. low hot idle oil pressure is killing phasers... bump up the idle rpm on copcars, they'll last long as they used to... whoever blessed off the 22 shifter needs reassigned- did they ever drive the old design??? it was superior in every way plus it didnt have the added failure mode created by the useless gimmick...look how many 1500-3500.00 tail lamp/headlamp assemblies are failing from water intrusion- 'fordtechmakuloco' on youtube did a 4800.00 fix - heater controls quit- why? corrosion in taillamps caused connection issues in canbus, preventing heater controls from working... $4800.00 due to piss poor sealing of two taillight capsules??? THIS stuff will END Ford it it dont stop. its either planned obsolescence or piss poor engineering- and cant be blamed on subcontractors, Ford has to have requirements/receiving inspections, or other insurances in place. Sorry to be so negative, but theres NO positive to these failures... they are way too frequent, way too expensive, and way too easy to avoid by proper engineering... planned obsolescence will sell as many new dodges as new f150s , maybe more :( Seriously, wish ford and all American manufacturers nothing but the best- got 4 sons, they'll need jobs to raise their families, and if every factory was pushing expensive design failures on to customers, they'll all be gone... is gotta be all about the product. good luck- America's future depends on American companies trying harder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) On 1/4/2024 at 7:40 PM, ford4v429 said: we have had a 19 3.5 lariat since 2018, and in 21 added a 22 lariat...a couple years between the two, thought maybe some real world feedback might be usesful- if anyone from ford actually reads in here anymore... biggest beef between the two trucks: they deleted the fake engine noise and muted the ANC in the 22. had I known they took the V8 sound out, DEFINITELY would not have ordered the 3.5 - coulda got a 5.0 (or a dodge) for less... why in the world woul that NOT be a owners chioce type of thing? adding insult to injury, son bought a 22 bronco 2.7- and bronco has the fake engine noise... yeah, some on the forums complained about the fake engine noise, but again-why not make it selectable? some of us boomers hate the sound of a V6, and petty as it may be, I drive the 19 and love driving it... the 22 reminds me of our windstar next biggest beef between the two: the 19 shifter layout is perfect. +/- buttons easy to use, pull back for manual, tap thumb button 5x for sport mode (that should be remembered like seat settings!!!!!) 2/4wheel stays put till you decide to change it. drive the 22- 1) rest arm flat on console, try to fully grasp the shifter- cant be done without lifting elbow as shifter is too short. 2) without looking, pull it into manual real quick- oops gotta look away and find a flush button on console...WTF? 2-b) try using the +/- buttons- oh, now they are above/below and to reach them awkwardly you gotta raise hand up off shifter a little...bad layout. 3) without looking, pop it into sport mode- oops, now its a freaking knob on the dash- look away/twist knob 5 clicks left... 3-b) after sport mode- delay to shift 4 wd, look away again and push the 2wd button...delay for shift this shifter is THE WORST ERGONOMIC DISASTER OF A SHIFTER I HAVE EVER SEEN... the 19 was near perfect 4) was a fluke i guess as its auto-parked twice since(I avoid if possible after first time) but first time at the ATM, i cracked my door open, shifter auto-parked...thought 'thats cool'. grab card, close door, go to put in gear-shit. shifters got a inch of backlash, feels totally busted... dick around with it and finally catch drive- drive home pissed off, but glad it didnt need towed as had read about busted shifters causing no way to drive, some no way to park, and park brake not working becauseits not in gear, crap like that... anyways at home, have son jump out and block the tires in case it wont go into park, he does, i try to shift to park- klunky as heck, but goes into park. get phone out and take video- from park-reverse-neutral-drive...loose as hell, but it shifted... go to put back in park from drive-neutral-neutral-neutral-reverse-park...ok its broke... I remember these things have folding shifter- no 'work surface' so complelely 100% useless feature - try the 'fold' for first time, flops/klunks/clicks then kinda stiffens up and folds forward... hit unfold button, comes back up and sounds like breaking plastic, and 'jumps' like a inch backwards- son of a guy- its tight/shifts normal again...it fixed itself, so fold feature was not useless...its handy after shifter breaks itself if I could put the 19s fake engine sound and the 19s shifter in the 22, it would be about perfect...the lane assist works great, the screen is nice... only gripes about the 19: 1) didnt have button for heated wheel 'off'... as workaround, used forscan to add the touchscreen buttons, just tap radio button twice and ots on screen without looking for it... 1-b) used forscan to set wheel heat to medium- still plenty warm, but not so hot you HAVE to be distracted to find button on screen 2) the 2/4 wheel selector knob is not lit...2/4a/4h/4 are illuminated, but cant see position of knob at all... petty, but it does still bug me. all that said, they are both great vehicles for comfort/convenience flipside: phasers at 57k, valve body at 59k, whole transmission at 60k in the 19... knew it was likely to have phaser/tranny/sunroof/IWE issues from reading, and thus it became first vehicle I ever bought extended warranty for... as it needed a $8000.00 transmission at 60,400 miles just months after 4000.00 warranty claim for phasers, it was a good move- but NEVER shoulda been necessary... tell everyone- I love the 19, more than the 22 even- but gotta admit it has been in the shop more than every other car combined ive had the last 40 years... love that truck/hate that truck... plan on keeping it forever, but any faith in it? nope. the 22 at 33k miles has been fine so far, coming up on decision time- buy extended warranty before 36k, or trade it in on something else? jurys still out on that one we have had (4) 19 3.5s and the (1)22 3.5 in the immediate family... m 19 needed phasers and transmission, my sons got a brand new engine at 55k...out of 5 trucks- all properly dealer maintained, one grenaded motor(phaser came apart), another needed phasers and a transmission... all under 60k miles??? never ever had a engine issue before, take care of them, they run forever...only tranny issue ever had was a 85 camaro i bought new, 700r4 that year was junk...I replaced 3 busted springs, a governor gear on 4 different occasions in 20 years, finally forward sprag busted, had to pull it clear out for that one- two evenings and 85 bucks, it was good to go again, gave it to a friends daughter 2 yrs later, was still fine. just saying, similar care/use/etc, my opinion on durability is its not good...always been a ford guy- currently have: 65 galaxie(since 2002), 69 mustang(since 1984) ,2002 mercury(since 2015),06 mustang-new, 07 mustang-new, 09 mustang-new- twin to the 06 (undriven-5.5 miles on it), 19 f150 lariat 3.5 new, 22 f150 lariat sport 3.5 new...thats a lot of fords, looks like a dealership this year added a 23 challenger widebody, one sons got a 90 mark Vii, and theres a fiero, other son traded in his f150 for the 22 bronco, then due to valve worries in the 2.7, he traded it in on a 23 challenger 1320(before i got mine- he talked me into it), and he just got a 23 colorado trailboss too... sadly hes done with fords...other son still has his f150, with the new engine, but hes wanting to trade it off before engine warranty is up, even though he loves it as much as i do my 19... long term ford family, but man- the engineering failures on these newer trucks, and the ergonomic failings of the 22, and the corporate decision to pull favorite features from f150s(fake engine noise), while adding it to bronco 2.7s was a real letdown- petty as it is, i do not 'enjoy' driving the 22 just because it sounds the way it does...LOVE driving the 19- same truck basically(22 actually has a little more power), but the 19 is luxurious AND sounds great, the 22 is just luxury transportation, meh. kept hoping a over the air update might put sound back, but nope. another thing on the 22- PDI they wrote up driversbeam-bending headlight because frame LEDs flickering- dealer ordered a headlight, took back a week later, no time, as they found it has to be aimed/calibrated...never got around to getting it back, and got a recall for same condition, but no fix/parts available, so cant change the light...also have a old recall for wiper motor failures- took 1.5 years to get parts??? ive had a bottle of rain-x and rags just in case in there forever... whats up with the slow recalls? the new max tow bolts popping off have been going on a year and a half- and testerday finally a recall- but no 'fix', just check/replace till fix is found...another engineering failure? sorry guys, but what the hell is going on in engineering? someones approved the phasers/10r80 valve body spool dimensions-tolerances/axle designs... these are huge black eyes for fords financial flagship... this stuff is gonna sell a lot of other brands if ford dont crack down on durability engineering yeah I bitch a lot, but not to bitch- just hoping to get a point across that mistakes being made are not leaving a mark, as far as brand loyalty... the competitions now about just as good... Ford needs to get back to one thing- ITS ALL ABOUT THE PRODUCT. when stuffs not reliable and going for record prices, its unacceptable, period. want to keep customers- up warranty on phasers/10r80s to at least 100k miles- if you guys arent confident your product will make it- fix THAT! if ford dont have the confidence in, OR the willingness to step up, the writings on the wall... i'm old, probably that challenger will be my last new car... but if given the option of any truck produced today, for the first time I can honestly say it wouldnt be a ford, and I hate that...been a ford fan since like junior high school...used to be just rust issues, but they were reliable if taken care of...now? look at that 19: if i dint have the extended warranty that was 12,000.00 of fixes by 60k miles... sorry, but that sucks. sons engine was 13.000 bucks at 55k miles... drive past any dealership and see how many f150s are waiting outside service for 10r80 fixes or phasers... this is minor engineering failures that cost a fortune to fix, and in my opinion is the fastest way to lose loyal customers. please take these problems seriously from your customers standpoints, not from some bean counters actuary table cost projections of hiding behind tsbs till out od warranty vs upping coverage to at least 100k...if ford cant be confident in their products, well, the result should be obvious... bean counters would say 'look- we cant afford to cover these to 100k because were having x% of failures' its up to Ford execs as to if they want to save short term cash, or save the company. its ALL about the product...public peception of that product is priceless. I honestly think 1/4 of the 10r80s wont make it ten years, no matter how maintained or driven... the valves stick. low hot idle oil pressure is killing phasers... bump up the idle rpm on copcars, they'll last long as they used to... whoever blessed off the 22 shifter needs reassigned- did they ever drive the old design??? it was superior in every way plus it didnt have the added failure mode created by the useless gimmick...look how many 1500-3500.00 tail lamp/headlamp assemblies are failing from water intrusion- 'fordtechmakuloco' on youtube did a 4800.00 fix - heater controls quit- why? corrosion in taillamps caused connection issues in canbus, preventing heater controls from working... $4800.00 due to piss poor sealing of two taillight capsules??? THIS stuff will END Ford it it dont stop. its either planned obsolescence or piss poor engineering- and cant be blamed on subcontractors, Ford has to have requirements/receiving inspections, or other insurances in place. Sorry to be so negative, but theres NO positive to these failures... they are way too frequent, way too expensive, and way too easy to avoid by proper engineering... planned obsolescence will sell as many new dodges as new f150s , maybe more Seriously, wish ford and all American manufacturers nothing but the best- got 4 sons, they'll need jobs to raise their families, and if every factory was pushing expensive design failures on to customers, they'll all be gone... is gotta be all about the product. good luck- America's future depends on American companies trying harder I have a 2020 f-150 W/THE 3.5. The ten speed transmission is the worst I have experienced in owning like 40plus vehicles. IT'S THAT BAD.... Edited February 13 by CKNSLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 31 minutes ago, CKNSLS said: I have a 2020 f-150 W/THE 3.5. The ten speed transmission is the worst I have experienced in owning like 40plus vehicles. IT'S THAT BAD.... Very strange. I’ve had mine for 6 years and the only problem I’ve ever had in 35000 miles is 3 or 4 hard shifts. I have the 3.5eb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNSLS Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 4 hours ago, akirby said: Very strange. I’ve had mine for 6 years and the only problem I’ve ever had in 35000 miles is 3 or 4 hard shifts. I have the 3.5eb. It is a VERY WIDE SPREAD PROBLEM and appears to have been acknowledged by Ford with at least two or three part updates. I went to the Ford Dealer and their transmission specialist told me they had 50-yes 50 transmissions in line for issues. He knew exactly the symptoms. He knew they either appear in 3,4,5 or the higher gears. He knew that before some had a downshift from 10th to 1st (yes-you read that right) when on the highway. It is not strange at all. You didn't say what year you had-but if you have 2017 through 2020-you have at least two design issues from the factory. The 2024s have the new parts. I understand that this is a Ford board-but I'm not getting in to an debate that there are not issues-because there are. If you do not have the ten speed-you don't have issues. ON EDIT-Posted at approximately 7 p.m. on a Ford Truck site- Hi, I had my 2020 F150 into the dealer at 49,000 miles for rough shifting. The rough shifting happens between 3-5 and occasionally in the higher gear like 7-9. I also notice rough downshifts. They reset the adaptive tables but I’m still noticing the rough shifting. I really notice it driving in manual mode and shifting it from like 6-5 and 5-4. How long does the adaptive tables take to learn before I should take it back. They did find the tsb 23-2250. Thank you end post Those who have had the adaptive shifting relearn states in almost all cases the symptoms return. Edited February 14 by CKNSLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisgb Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 2 hours ago, CKNSLS said: It is a VERY WIDE SPREAD PROBLEM and appears to have been acknowledged by Ford with at least two or three part updates. I went to the Ford Dealer and their transmission specialist told me they had 50-yes 50 transmissions in line for issues. He knew exactly the symptoms. He knew they either appear in 3,4,5 or the higher gears. He knew that before some had a downshift from 10th to 1st (yes-you read that right) when on the highway. It is not strange at all. You didn't say what year you had-but if you have 2017 through 2020-you have at least two design issues from the factory. The 2024s have the new parts. I understand that this is a Ford board-but I'm not getting in to an debate that there are not issues-because there are. If you do not have the ten speed-you don't have issues. ON EDIT-Posted at approximately 7 p.m. on a Ford Truck site- Hi, I had my 2020 F150 into the dealer at 49,000 miles for rough shifting. The rough shifting happens between 3-5 and occasionally in the higher gear like 7-9. I also notice rough downshifts. They reset the adaptive tables but I’m still noticing the rough shifting. I really notice it driving in manual mode and shifting it from like 6-5 and 5-4. How long does the adaptive tables take to learn before I should take it back. They did find the tsb 23-2250. Thank you end post Those who have had the adaptive shifting relearn states in almost all cases the symptoms return. Quite a few posts about 10R80 problems on Ranger 5g, too. I had the TSB 23-2350 done on my 2021 Ranger for the same issues. Some on R5G have turned off adaptive learning with Forscan and post that theirs shifts better. The Learning curve seemed to not last very long on mine, It now favors shifting 1-2-4-6,7,8,9,10, rather than 1-3-5 etc. the 3-5 shift could be pretty harsh even when empty and not towing. It still does a 3-5 occasionally but it is a little smother. I'm ok with it. I don't want to become a regular at the shop; "If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is." Automatic transmission design and function is reverse-engineered Alien technology to me, but here's the TSB 23 2350: TSB 23-2350 11:23.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 10 hours ago, CKNSLS said: It is a VERY WIDE SPREAD PROBLEM and appears to have been acknowledged by Ford with at least two or three part updates. I went to the Ford Dealer and their transmission specialist told me they had 50-yes 50 transmissions in line for issues. He knew exactly the symptoms. He knew they either appear in 3,4,5 or the higher gears. He knew that before some had a downshift from 10th to 1st (yes-you read that right) when on the highway. It is not strange at all. You didn't say what year you had-but if you have 2017 through 2020-you have at least two design issues from the factory. The 2024s have the new parts. I understand that this is a Ford board-but I'm not getting in to an debate that there are not issues-because there are. If you do not have the ten speed-you don't have issues. Overreact much? Did I say there weren’t serious issues? All I said was I was unaware of widespread serious issues and hadn’t experienced them myself. But considering every F150, Ranger, Bronco, Mustang, Expedition and Navigator sold since 2018 (with some rare exceptions) and every Explorer and Aviator sold since 2020 have some variation of it, thats easily 8+ million on the road. So even 100,000 problems is less than 2%. Not minimizing the issue and it sucks if you’re affected but that would explain why I wasn’t aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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