Can Toyoda Truck Plant Employees Afford a Truck?

[boorgm]

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID.../611180389/1014

 

"It employs 1,800 workers at the plant with plans to increase that number to 2,000 by next year. Production workers start at $16 to $18 an hour.

 

Another 2,000 workers are employed by the 21 on-site suppliers.."

 

 

You can bet the 2000 supplier employees get even less pay and benefits than the toyoda employees. I am sure this country is taking it pretty good up the you know what to supply incentives to toyoda so that they would build the plant in first place.

 

We in this country must be a bunch of retards to let foreign companies build thier plants at Ford, GM, and Chysler's expense with built in cost advantages. It doesn't matter what US companies pay, toyoda can just come here and pay less. Forget about UAW wages, if Ford and GM paid $10.00/hr, toyoda could come here and pay $8.00/hr. A built in cost advantage from which toyoda can make billions which leave the country.

 

How many people in this country are involved in building trucks for Ford, GM, and Chrylser? How much of the US economy is made up of the US truck business? This country is practically paying toyoda to take it away.

 

The sad thing for me is not that people are so stupid they don't see what is going but how little we get in return. If toyoda employeed 10,000 people and paid more in wages, I would still think this country is getting it up the you know what.

 

Hopefully nobody buys those trucks. At least the people in this country woujld still know better even if we have retards as politicians.

[Ovaltine]

Can Toyoda Truck Plant Employees Afford a Truck?

 

So.... what I hear you saying is that if a high-end manufacturer like Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus put a factory up in your neighborhood, paid industry standard wages, AND you were unemployed, you would choose not to work there because you can't afford to buy the product you're making?

 

I *know* that's not the point you WERE trying to make, but that is one that can be logically deduced from your reasoning.

 

In other words, you are saying that a worker should refuse to produce a product that they cannot afford to purchase for themselves.

 

I'd bet that companies like Boeing, Rolex, Rolls Royce, etc. are glad that not ALL manufacturing workers subscribe to your ideals.

 

 

Your points about the government subsidizing the foreign competition's new plants is well taken however. The government giving a competitor additional incentives to build a new plant, while not offering similar incentives to keep an *existing* Big-3 plant open does not make a whole lot of long-term sense. It's also unfair. Which makes me wonder if the Big-3 shouldn't try getting similar concessions from the local governments before closing a domestic plant?

 

-Ovaltine

Edited November 20, 2006 by Ovaltine

[retro-man]

I don't know about Ford, GM, and Chrysler, but here in Washington, Boeing and Microsoft get literally Billions of dollars in tax breaks (money straight from the Washington State taxpayer, who has to make up that difference, into Boeing and Microsoft shareholders' pockets). I have a feeling, Ford, GM, and Chrysler have extracted their share. That's why Detroit's schools are crappy and their infrastructure is crumbling. And we're right behind you!

[wildosvt]

If they have a second income from a spouce, then sure they will.

 

 

The question is, How many of those 1800 workers are actually Toyota employees. And not temp's.....

[ford-boy]

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID.../611180389/1014

 

"It employs 1,800 workers at the plant with plans to increase that number to 2,000 by next year. Production workers start at $16 to $18 an hour.

 

Another 2,000 workers are employed by the 21 on-site suppliers.."

You can bet the 2000 supplier employees get even less pay and benefits than the toyoda employees. I am sure this country is taking it pretty good up the you know what to supply incentives to toyoda so that they would build the plant in first place.

 

We in this country must be a bunch of retards to let foreign companies build thier plants at Ford, GM, and Chysler's expense with built in cost advantages. It doesn't matter what US companies pay, toyoda can just come here and pay less. Forget about UAW wages, if Ford and GM paid $10.00/hr, toyoda could come here and pay $8.00/hr. A built in cost advantage from which toyoda can make billions which leave the country.

 

How many people in this country are involved in building trucks for Ford, GM, and Chrylser? How much of the US economy is made up of the US truck business? This country is practically paying toyoda to take it away.

 

The sad thing for me is not that people are so stupid they don't see what is going but how little we get in return. If toyoda employeed 10,000 people and paid more in wages, I would still think this country is getting it up the you know what.

 

Hopefully nobody buys those trucks. At least the people in this country woujld still know better even if we have retards as politicians.

 

Agree ONE HUNDRED percent. Makes me wonder how well our government is working. Are those that are in office serving us, their country, their constituents OR are they serving themselves, foreign lobbyists to win another term? On Autoline Detroit this morning, host John McElroy said of the Bush/CEO meeting this past week that the currency manipulation charge leveled at Japan will not be addressed because Japan buys t-bills with all those dollars that are flying out of here. In addition, we want Japan to work with us on the N. Korean problem. I mean WTF!!! So to get Japan to side with us that N. Korea needs to stop enriching plutonium, becoming a huge danger to the entire world, we need to give up jobs to Japan in exchange??? This is like allowing your 10 year old son to stay out wherever til 1 AM Saturday nite in exchange for him to do his homework. Who the fuck is the parent here and who is the child?

[Ovaltine]

Are you saying that Toyota is a high-end pickup truck?

 

No.... but I am questioning the validity of the premise that a manufacturing worker be able to afford the product he's making. The original poster infers (via the post's subject) that it is is morally wrong for workers to build pickup trucks that they themselves cannot afford.

 

I'm simply pointing out that there are many products out there where this is the case, and it is win-win for all three parties. The manufacturing company, the worker, and ultimately the consumer.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited November 20, 2006 by Ovaltine

[ford-boy]

'm simply pointing out that there are many products out there where this is the case, and it is win-win for all three parties. The manufacturing company, the worker, and ultimately the consumer.

 

-Ovaltine

 

In this fantasy scenario, are there ANY losers or is EVERYONE a winner?

[tony1790]

First off, I have a Ford Excursion and a Jeep Cherokee in the driveway, not a toyota........however,

 

You guys are so freaking removed from reality that I can't help from posting on here.

 

What do you mean someone who starts out at $16 to $18 per hour can't afford the trucks that they build. Those are above average wages my friends, I mean if you don't work in the overinflated $20 to $30 dollar la la land of the UAW.

 

Most people in this country make a heck of a lot less than either you guys or those Toyota guys $8 to $12 per hour and how are we going to afford YOUR trucks when YOU get paid to work or better yet not to work (job bank anyone?).

 

And as for Toyota, I thank god that they are building plants here, because they are growing and not declining as the case with Ford. They are paying good wages for their employees and as stated, buying govt T-Bills. If they weren't paying Govt T-bills then taxes and interest rates would have to climb to make up the difference.

 

Face it, Toyota is making products that people want to buy at the same price before incentives that Ford is selling theirs for, and they are making money hand over fist. I'm looking at buying a van for the wife, but there's no way I'd buy a Freestar, not because it's a bad van, it just won't hold up in value. 50% reduction in value once off the lot, while the Sienna's are going for near new prices on the used lots.

 

I pray that Ford pulls it off (not going into bankruptcy) but by making cars in Canada, Mexico they have lost me on buying American, and by paying people $30 bucks an hour to build cars no one is buying unless at a discount, then I don't know how they are going to stay in business.

 

 

Good luck, God bless, I feel for those that live in Michigan.

[ford-boy]

Well, $16 per hour comes out to a whopping $33, 280 per year, assuming a 40 hr. week and 52 weeks for the year. You think this is a good living wage to buy a house, have kids, etc.? Hell NO. This also is BEFORE taxes. I think this wage is barely above poverty level. And NO, you cannot afford to buy a new truck on that income. Maybe if you are single and STILL living with your parents. Everyone in this country has the right to a decent living wage. Fifty years ago, most families got by with just one income. Today, that is not the norm.

[RancorKeeper]

Well, $16 per hour comes out to a whopping $33, 280 per year, assuming a 40 hr. week and 52 weeks for the year. You think this is a good living wage to buy a house, have kids, etc.? Hell NO.

That's crap. I bought a house, a dog and a brand-new Bullitt making $33K a year back in 2000 & 2001. If you can't live on that you're doing something wrong. $16/hour is an excellent starting salary & it's a lot more than I made when I got my first job as an architect, which was $10/hour in 1998. And that was at a firm in downtown Chicago!

[Plumbob1]

My nephew works for Toyota and he can't afford to get a Toyota van,so he buy's Fords :shades:

 

Over time he does make more than $16/hr. He has been there 6.5yrs now and I think he makes $22/hr

 

That's crap. I bought a house, a dog and a brand-new Bullitt making $33K a year back in 2000 & 2001. If you can't live on that you're doing something wrong. $16/hour is an excellent starting salary & it's a lot more than I made when I got my first job as an architect, which was $10/hour in 1998. And that was at a firm in downtown Chicago!

 

I take it you were not married and didn't have kids. I could afford a lot before I was married and just after I was married until we started to have kids.

[goblue93]

That's crap. I bought a house, a dog and a brand-new Bullitt making $33K a year back in 2000 & 2001. If you can't live on that you're doing something wrong. $16/hour is an excellent starting salary & it's a lot more than I made when I got my first job as an architect, which was $10/hour in 1998. And that was at a firm in downtown Chicago!

 

I agree with you. Two workers would make $66k a year starting with what education required? That's pretty damn good and enough to have a family, house, etc.

[GTBCANADIAN]

We all should stop attacking each other and look at the big picture, the people that are making the big money here are the elite few and the gap is widening all the time,we all should be getting a fare wages to work. I think Toyota could easly pay their workers more, especially after posting 10's of billions in profit.

 

Also the big 3 auto makers generate and 8 to 1 ratio of spin off jobs , the off shore auto makers only generate a 1 to 3 ratio of spin off jobs and every time you subsidizes an off shore auto maker you are actually cutting 5 jobs for everyone you create. Add the numbers up,they are staggering, good paying jobs are gone, which your son's or daughter's could have had. So let's see ,your paying them hundreds of millions of taxes payers dollars to open up factories here and pay the workers less money, the politicians say we are creating jobs but in hindsight they are paying them to eliminate jobs , then take their profit back to their own country and support their own peoples social programs. Does that make sense ,I think not???? I think we need a new plan!!!

 

Maybe we should put politicians in power that are turely thinking of the working class people, instead of catering to the rich neo conserative elite. The rich are getting richer and the middle class will be gone soon, we better wake up before we all are working for Wal-Mart wages.

Edited November 23, 2006 by GTBCANADAIN

[ford-boy]

We all should stop attacking each other and look at the big picture, the people that are making the big money here are the elite few and the gap is widening all the time,we all should be getting a fare wages to work. I think Toyota could easly pay their workers more, especially after posting 10's of billions in profit.

 

Also the big 3 auto makers generate and 8 to 1 ratio of spin off jobs , the off shore auto makers only generate a 1 to 3 ratio of spin off jobs and every time you subsidizes an off shore auto maker you are actually cutting 5 jobs for everyone you create. Add the numbers up,they are staggering, good paying jobs are gone, which your son's or daughter's could have had. So let's see ,your paying them hundreds of millions of taxes payers dollars to open up factories here and pay the workers less money, the politicians say we are creating jobs but in hindsight they are paying them to eliminate jobs , then take their profit back to their own country and support their own peoples social programs. Does that make sense ,I think not???? I think we need a new plan!!!

 

Maybe we should put politicians in power that are turely thinking of the working class people, instead of catering to the rich neo conserative elite. The rich are getting richer and the middle class will be gone soon, we better wake up before we all are working for Wal-Mart wages.

I Agree. Its just absolutely bizarre that SOME people on this board think its a GOOD idea to buy from an offshore company making cars here. I have said the same thing, that if you buy from an offshore co. you have just lost more American jobs AND lowered existing salaries.

To rancorkeeper, get married, have a couple kids, live in a quality school district and then tell me that 33K is a great salary. We'll be looking for that Bullit on ebay.

[grbeck]

I don't know about Ford, GM, and Chrysler, but here in Washington, Boeing and Microsoft get literally Billions of dollars in tax breaks (money straight from the Washington State taxpayer, who has to make up that difference, into Boeing and Microsoft shareholders' pockets). I have a feeling, Ford, GM, and Chrysler have extracted their share. That's why Detroit's schools are crappy and their infrastructure is crumbling. And we're right behind you!

 

You're correct that GM, Ford and Chrysler have extracted concessions and incentives from state and local governments. Since they have not been building many plants, however, they usually get incentives to update existing facilities.

 

GM received hefty incentives from Michigan for its brand-new Lansing plant (which builds the new rear-wheel-drive Cadillacs). And remember how the state of Georgia was busily assembling its incentive pacakge when Ford announced that the Atlanta plant was on the endangered list?

 

Posters also seem to forget the bidding circus that broke out among states when GM announced that its Saturn project would require a brand-new plant. GM didn't ultimately locate the Saturn plant in Tennessee because its executives liked the warmer weather...

 

If people are against government offering companies incentives and tax breaks - fine, I'm against it, too.

 

But people need to stop fooling themselves into thinking that only the foreign companies benefit from this largesse of taxpayers' money.

 

I Agree. Its just absolutely bizarre that SOME people on this board think its a GOOD idea to buy from an offshore company making cars here. I have said the same thing, that if you buy from an offshore co. you have just lost more American jobs AND lowered existing salaries.

To rancorkeeper, get married, have a couple kids, live in a quality school district and then tell me that 33K is a great salary. We'll be looking for that Bullit on ebay.

 

Since the transplants are, by definition, building vehicles HERE, when someone buys one of those vehicles, it is supporting AMERICAN jobs. Honda and Toyota employ AMERICANS to build many of their vehicles.

 

As for the argument that it takes jobs away from the American-based companies:

 

1. This industry has always been dynamic. It's no different than in the 1950s, when GM and Ford "stole" jobs from Studebaker, Packard and Hudson workers by offering vehicles that were better-built and more attractive than the ones offered by those companies. Sorry, but there is no rule or statute that requires 100 percent of the vehicles sold in America to be sold by the Big 2.5 and built with UAW labor.

 

2. The American companies are overstaffed. They have been becoming more productive for years. Increased productivity means, "Building the same number of vehicles with fewer employees." This is how ALL companies succeed. They reduce inputs (labor, materials, money) while maintaining or increasing outputs (i.e., the finished product). Why do you think GM and Ford, over the past few decades, have been able to build the same number or more vehicles with FEWER UAW workers?

 

As for the argument that the transplants lower everyone's wages - UAW members make more money than most comparable employees (i.e, comparable in skills, education levels and years of service). Quite a few Harrisburg-area WHITE-COLLAR workers don't make as much as UAW workers. Salaries are already LOWER in most areas than what either UAW workers or white-collar emloyees of the Big 2.5 enjoy. So I fail to see how people who buy a Toyota or a Honda are putting pressure on everyone else's wages. Most people's wages are already lower than what UAW workers (and white-collar Big. 2.5 employees) make.

[ford-boy]

I guess everyone "sees" what they want to see, however, buying from the American makers supports FAR more American jobs than a transplant. This is not opinion, its not what I "think" is true, it's a FACT. The data is already in and no amount of your spin or anyone else's spin is going to change the statistical HISTORY of 2005 MY. What don't you understand.?

 

2005 Model Year Data--

 

Automobiles sold by Ford, Gm and Chrysler have 93% more parts content american than the imports on average.

In 2005, domestic automakers sold approx. 57% of the cars bought here, but bought 77% of the parts made here, while foreign automakers sold 47% of the cars purchased here but bought only 23% of the parts made here.

 

This is not rocket science. Its history. It already happened and buying a foreign car LOSES american jobs. Please don't try to justify something that is simply not true. For every 10 jobs we have GIVEN up, they (transplants ) have replaced only a fraction of them. What the hell is so hard to understand about that. This is just plain simple arithmetic and not hard to understand. I guess it becomes very hard to understand -- when you don't WANT to understand. If you like Honda and buy one, just be honest and say it. But to try and blow smoke up my butt with they build them here so its OK, is not true. You buy a Honda-- you lose American jobs. Period. And I am not saying that Honda is a bad car. Just be honest to yourself about what you are doing.

[bec5150]

I posted on this board a while back a fact that pretty much got ignored. I don't have it right in front of me, but I'll give it a go...

 

2007 Mustang GT Automatic:

 

% of American Content: 65%

 

Location of assembly: US

 

Engine Origin: US

 

Transmission Origin: France (Yeah, France)

 

 

2007 Honda Accord Auto:

 

% of American Content: 65%

 

Location of Assembly: US

 

Engine Origin: US

 

Transmission: 4cyl - Japan, V-6 - US

Edited November 23, 2006 by bec5150

[GTBCANADIAN]

Ford-boy some people just like to put their heads in the sand and only pull it out, to see what they want to, you have the statistics and they have been posted here many times,you are just stating the facts!!!!!!

 

grbeck: My friend you have been brain washed by your neo conservative friends, I think thier is no help for you, but I will try.

 

My friend in 2005 the the US trade deficit hit a all time high at a whopping 725.8 BILLION. Over the past 5 years, the US economy has experrienced the lowest job creation since the 1930. For the first time since the great depression ,American consumer has spent more than he has earned. Your wages are under attack, and your NEO CONSERVATIVE government is behind it with the backing of the richest people in the country.

 

When business has more infleuence in the halls of government, than the people, democracy will wither and die!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wages are set in the market places, if they can get away with paying you the bare minimum they will and when everbody is making $10 an hour, nobody will not get much more.So when you are say the UAW are making----what ever they are making,--I don't no because i don't work there, my point is they are helping bring everbody wages up by setting the standard in the market place .

When you continue to bring in off shore auto makers or what ever business that pays less wages, they will have a negative influence on the economy. It's the spending of the money by the working people that creates comsumer demand, comsumer demand in turns create business opportunities, and that creats jobs.

 

Yes we have to become more productive, but to what extent,if you trying to compete against off shore companies that exploit their workers by having no health and safety laws, no environmental policies, no workers rights what so ever, because remember that's mostly where the parts they use are made, in under developed countries, they assemble the vehicles here that's about it.

Are you saying you agree with this kind of society, where you put--- PROFIT BEFORE PEOPLE---I think you have been drinking the con's KOOL_AID?, I guess you would like your family growing up in that kind of world.

 

WE the people have to look after each other in this great country the USA, we have to stop fighting amongst are selves and direct our energy towards changing government policies, and put true democracy back on track where the people have the power.

 

Sorry for the long post ,sometimes my passion gets the better of me.

 

PS; excuse the spelling miatakes I just got a computer and I'm learning to type {have a great day.} :stats:

Edited November 23, 2006 by GTBCANADAIN

[bec5150]

I believe you have two issues here though. One is the UAW competing with other companies that are not union and don't provide the pay and benefits of the UAW. The other issue is companies, both union and non-union, competing with the non-OSHA, no benefit, very VERY low pay and benefits of these borderline third world countries like China, Korea, and Mexico.

 

All that I would ask, respectfully, is keep the companies out of it and ensure that we keep it to the American workers because, ultimately, that's what matters.

[GTBCANADIAN]

I believe you have two issues here though. One is the UAW competing with other companies that are not union and don't provide the pay and benefits of the UAW. The other issue is companies, both union and non-union, competing with the non-OSHA, no benefit, very VERY low pay and benefits of these borderline third world countries like China, Korea, and Mexico.

 

All that I would ask, respectfully, is keep the companies out of it and ensure that we keep it to the American workers because, ultimately, that's what matters.

 

I will try better next time.

[ford-boy]

I posted on this board a while back a fact that pretty much got ignored. I don't have it right in front of me, but I'll give it a go...

 

2007 Mustang GT Automatic:

 

% of American Content: 65%

 

Location of assembly: US

 

Engine Origin: US

 

Transmission Origin: France (Yeah, France)

2007 Honda Accord Auto:

 

% of American Content: 65%

 

Location of Assembly: US

 

Engine Origin: US

 

Transmission: 4cyl - Japan, V-6 - US

 

 

Geez, bec. So f--king what!!!. You take ONE vehicle and compare to ONE other vehicle and then you are trying to make the point..............?????? Its better to buy Honda? Read my post. Again. Its not rocket science. Its SIMPLE ARITHMETIC. You know.... 2+2 Why don't you COMPILE ALL the data and then tell me what I already know. In fact, I can save you alot of time. Read my post again to know what the data is. I can also take an American vehicle and compare to a foreign car and show you the opposite of what you are trying to show me. Be a MAN. If you like Honda, just say I 'm buying Honda regardless. Period. But please don't try to insult my intelligence with some BS spin of yours. The SIMPLE FACT is: You buy American and you support 3-4 times as many jobs here. PERIOD. End of story. Remember, its history. It already happened. For you, maybe the Holocaust didn't happen. Or at least you will try to show me that there were less Jews killed in Einshwitz than there were Germans killed in Berlin????? WTF.

[boorgm]

If there is a perceived quality difference between US automakers and toyoda, honda, kia, and all the rest, it is because the foreign companies have 1000's of dollars of cost advantage per vehicle. Some of this cost advantage goes into vehicles so that for the same amount of money people get more. Some of GM's Cadillac vehicles are the best out there but they can't sell them for the price of a Chevy. If Ford or GM wanted to sell the equivalent car to a Camry, they would have to charge way more than toyoda so they have no business case to justify that kind of vehicle. They would lose money and so they don't do it.

 

The problem is not the UAW or competiveness. Whatever Ford and GM do, these foreign companies are allowed to come into this country and operate at a cost advantage. The states will even assist them get their cost advantage. This is not competition or free trade. It is stupidity and the really sad thing is how nobody can see this happening. We have retards as politicians.

 

For those that like to post statistics, here is one for you - more than 40% of the US auto sales now go to foreign auto companies. In Japan, the US automakers have about 3-4% of the market and in Korea it is less.

 

Like the previous poster said, if you want to drive your toyoda's and honda's go ahead but don't bash Ford and GM to justify it.

[bec5150]

Geez, bec. So f--king what!!!. You take ONE vehicle and compare to ONE other vehicle and then you are trying to make the point..............?????? Its better to buy Honda? Read my post. Again. Its not rocket science. Its SIMPLE ARITHMETIC. You know.... 2+2 Why don't you COMPILE ALL the data and then tell me what I already know. In fact, I can save you alot of time. Read my post again to know what the data is. I can also take an American vehicle and compare to a foreign car and show you the opposite of what you are trying to show me. Be a MAN. If you like Honda, just say I 'm buying Honda regardless. Period. But please don't try to insult my intelligence with some BS spin of yours. The SIMPLE FACT is: You buy American and you support 3-4 times as many jobs here. PERIOD. End of story. Remember, its history. It already happened. For you, maybe the Holocaust didn't happen. Or at least you will try to show me that there were less Jews killed in Einshwitz than there were Germans killed in Berlin????? WTF.

Actually, I took the most AMERICAN car in Ford's lineup and showed that it's no more American than Honda's most American car. Make of it what you will. Also, I bought a Honda because at the time it was the best vehicle for our purposes in regards to quality, price, room, purpose, resale, MPG, and other factors. It's the same reason I bought a Ford truck. I don't give a damn what brand I drive. It's nothing but an appliance to me. The only consideration I have is that I won't support third world labor. That means I won't be buying any products made in Korea, China, Mexico, and the like; regardless of what brand it is.

 

If there is a perceived quality difference between US automakers and toyoda, honda, kia, and all the rest, it is because the foreign companies have 1000's of dollars of cost advantage per vehicle. Some of this cost advantage goes into vehicles so that for the same amount of money people get more. Some of GM's Cadillac vehicles are the best out there but they can't sell them for the price of a Chevy. If Ford or GM wanted to sell the equivalent car to a Camry, they would have to charge way more than toyoda so they have no business case to justify that kind of vehicle. They would lose money and so they don't do it.

 

The problem is not the UAW or competiveness. Whatever Ford and GM do, these foreign companies are allowed to come into this country and operate at a cost advantage. The states will even assist them get their cost advantage. This is not competition or free trade. It is stupidity and the really sad thing is how nobody can see this happening. We have retards as politicians.

 

For those that like to post statistics, here is one for you - more than 40% of the US auto sales now go to foreign auto companies. In Japan, the US automakers have about 3-4% of the market and in Korea it is less.

 

Like the previous poster said, if you want to drive your toyoda's and honda's go ahead but don't bash Ford and GM to justify it.

BULLSHIT!!! All of the big companies get the same tax breaks. Tax abatements abound for Ford and GM just as much as Honda and Toyota. I will allow you that the cost advantage is due to the union shops vs non union shops, legacy costs, and even the fact that a brand new factory is probably more economical to run than an old factory, but again, like I stated previously, that has NOTHING to do with the brand or origin of the company. If you want to have the opinion that this cost advantage due to unions is something that we, the customer, should take into consideration when we purchase a new vehicle, fine...but let's not act like a Ford plant in one location pays all kinds of taxes while a Honda plant in another location pays none. I am sure that this sounds real good, but that ain't the way it works.

Edited November 24, 2006 by bec5150

[GTBCANADIAN]

If there is a perceived quality difference between US automakers and toyoda, honda, kia, and all the rest, it is because the foreign companies have 1000's of dollars of cost advantage per vehicle. Some of this cost advantage goes into vehicles so that for the same amount of money people get more. Some of GM's Cadillac vehicles are the best out there but they can't sell them for the price of a Chevy. If Ford or GM wanted to sell the equivalent car to a Camry, they would have to charge way more than toyoda so they have no business case to justify that kind of vehicle. They would lose money and so they don't do it.

 

The problem is not the UAW or competiveness. Whatever Ford and GM do, these foreign companies are allowed to come into this country and operate at a cost advantage. The states will even assist them get their cost advantage. This is not competition or free trade. It is stupidity and the really sad thing is how nobody can see this happening. We have retards as politicians.

 

For those that like to post statistics, here is one for you - more than 40% of the US auto sales now go to foreign auto companies. In Japan, the US automakers have about 3-4% of the market and in Korea it is less.

 

Like the previous poster said, if you want to drive your toyoda's and honda's go ahead but don't bash Ford and GM to justify it.

 

 

The Ford Tauras was one of Ford best vehicles ; At one time it led the auto industry in Sales, Quality and customer satisfaction.I think they can do it again, if they get their act back together and start concentating on these pricipals. These company do not have better worker, they have better leadership, the people at the top are ultimately responsible. Edward Deming said it best Management is resonsible for running the business ,it is not the workers fault, and untill they realize this; things at your company will not change.

Toyota used Edward Deming philosophies turn to their company around. I have confidents in the American people to do the same.

 

This an excellent topic and here is just some information for everbody to digest, American companies profits typically stay in America,where it is used to build more factories or buy more advertising, or pay better salaries ETC...This contributes to economic growth. It keeps going around and around in our economy, getting taxed in each cycle and thus providing for good schools , safer roads, decent salaries for firefighters, polices officers, all these moneies build are social safety net. The foreign owned companies are here for one express purpose of taking profits home to their country,they do not give a rats ass about our people or this country.

 

America was one of the weathiest and most powerful nation in the world,but today after 3 decades of NEO Conservative economics and insane "free trade" policies -- we're the most indebt nation in the history of the world, We've gone from being--pre Reagan-- the worlds largest exporter of finished goods and the worlds largest importer of raw materials, to being the exact oppsite in just one decade. The Neo Con's have mismanaged our country and have sold it to the highest bidders around the world for their own personal greed$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

So every time you buy a foreign Auto etc...... you are directly affecting your own economy in a negative way and you are under minding all your social programs, and yes those taxes dollars are no longer being generated to help the America people.So go ahead and cut your own throats or wake up,and take your heads out of your assesssssssssss

 

Of course I'm sure the elite group of CEO billionaries will take care of you and your families, Oya PIG CAN FLY

 

Go to this site and get the real stories----www.economyincrisis.org { PS. Thanks for reading my rant.}

Edited November 24, 2006 by GTBCANADAIN

[Ovaltine]

The only consideration I have is that I won't support third world labor. That means I won't be buying any products made in Korea, China, Mexico, and the like; regardless of what brand it is.

Here's the most recent info on global labor costs in dollars per hour:

 

http://home.alltel.net/bsundquist1/gcib.html

 

Table (B-2) -- Relative labor costs among major auto-producing nations, in dollars per hour

(Source: U.S. office of Trade and Economic Analysis) (04S1)

Germany $33.00

U. S. $22.50

France $22.10

Japan $20.20

Canada $19.40

U. K. $18.60

S. Korea $ 8.40

Taiwan $ 5.20

Mexico $ 2.70

China $ 0.90

 

South Korea is at the top of the LOWER tier, but they also unionized, which you should appreciate. They're also WAY above both Mexico and China.

 

So.... I think it would be more accurate to classify them as a '2nd World' country. In any case, you can definitely see the labor price advantage they have over the U.S.., Europe, and Japan.

 

Also... Third World people like to eat too. B)

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited November 24, 2006 by Ovaltine