Massive Toyota Recall Affects Nearly One Million

[06StangAwesomecar]

WOW!!

 

 

Massive Toyota Recall Affects Nearly One Million

Includes 283,000 Prius Hybrids

 

 

Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling nearly 1 million vehicles around the world to replace faulty parts that could cause drivers to lose control of the steering wheel.

 

Included in the recall are 170,000 Prius models in the U.S. and 113,000 of the hybrids in Japan.

 

The recall affects vehicles across 10 models, including the popular Prius. The intermediate shafts and sliding yokes in the recalled cars lack the necessary strength and could distort or crack under strong pressure, causing drivers to lose control of the steering wheel, according to Toyota.

 

Toyota is recalling roughly 170,000 Prius models in the U.S. because the steering shaft assembly could become loose or crack.

 

Toyota said there have been no reported crashes or injuries connected to the problem in the United States. Owners are expected to be notified of the recall in mid-June.

 

In Japan, the recall involves a total of 565,756 vehicles manufactured under the Wish, Isis, Prius, Corolla, Corolla Runx, Corolla Fielder, Corolla Spacio, Allex and Ractis brands between September 2002 and November 2005, according to the recall notice.

 

The number in Japan included more than 300,000 Wish cars and more than 113,000 Prius cars.

 

The recall involves about 240,000 vehicles in Europe, including the Prius, Corolla and Avensis. An additional 10,000 vehicles were being recalled in other parts of the world, including China and New Zealand.

 

 

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2..._worldwide.html

[01FOCI]

All this and "you," paid a premium for that Toiletota...Just keeps getting better! Future headline "Cost cutting at Toyota leads to record Profits and Deaths, Record Lawsuits To Follow." The crapanesse investors expect the same amount of return as US investors duo of US companies and this has been rearing its ugly head for a number of years at toyota and they clearly do not have a hold on it. I wonder if toiletota corporate culture will protect the idiot engineer or if he(she) will be seeking a new job? OR perhaps the toiletota execs will have him and his(her) department "disposed" of...

Edited December 13, 2006 by 01FOCI

[RichardJensen]

This article is from May 31.

[05fordgt]

This article is from May 31.

 

It may have been from May, but its the first I have heard of it. Amazing how the media keeps these things under wraps, unless its an american car manufacturer.

[marc-o]

It may have been from May, but its the first I have heard of it. Amazing how the media keeps these things under wraps, unless its an american car manufacturer.

 

Actually there were at least 3 threads about it on BON at the time, linking and mentioning articles from CNN, Fox News, and Detroit News among others.

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...4&hl=toyota

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...9&hl=toyota

 

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/index...7&hl=toyota

 

Ford doesn't get a free pass, but neither does Toyota. Honestly, believe what you want, it's clear this was covered by major news outlets when it happened, what more do you want?

[RichardJensen]

It may have been from May, but its the first I have heard of it. Amazing how the media keeps these things under wraps, unless its an american car manufacturer.

If anything, this recall was what drew attention to the increasing frequency and quantity of Toyota recalls.

 

It was/is a huge recall.

[ebritt]

But if you tell the average Joe that Toyota has as many recalls as anybody else, they dont beleive you.

[ford-boy]

I have been looking at Prius owners complaints for about 2 years now. The shear numbers of complaints have grown alot , especially considering the low volume of units sold. There are now 135 complaints of owners of 2005 Prius' Even after the "engine stall" recall, owners are still reporting a shut down of the vehicle. . I have copied a sampling of consumer complaints from the bottom of the NHTSA list. There are many occurences of certain complaints-- brakes, stalling, tires. MANY consumers report getting only 20,000 miles from their tires. Some even less. There are some VERY serious problems here, not just the usual mirror falling off, air bag didn't deploy, front end makes noise, etc.

 

>>>>>ENGINE STALLS. *JB

 

>>>>>DT*: THE CONTACT STATED WHILE DRIVING 65 MPH UNDER NORMAL ROAD CONDITIONS, THE VEHICLE STALLED. THERE WERE NO WARNINGS PRIOR TO THE FAILURE. THE VEHICLE WAS TAKEN TO THE SERVICE DEALER, WHO WAS NOT ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE PROBLEM.

>>>>>OUR 2005 PRIUS DEVELOPED A MASSIVE GASOLINE LEAK, WHICH MADE IT AN OBVIOUS FIRE HAZARD. WE DROVE IT HOME, AND THE CAR WAS TOWED TO THE DEALER, WHERE THEY FOUND THAT THE CAR'S PLASTIC FUEL LINES THAT HAD BEEN DAMAGED BY RODENTS. THE FUEL LINES WERE REPLACED BY NEW PLASTIC ONES. HOWEVER, WE LIVE IN THE COUNTRY, WHERE SQUIRRELS AND MICE ABOUND, SO THIS DANGEROUS PROBLEM WILL PROBABLY HAPPEN AGAIN. THERE ARE NO METAL FUEL LINES AVAILABLE FOR THIS VEHICLE; WE CONSIDER THESE PLASTIC, EXPOSED FUEL LINES A SAFETY HAZARD. *JB

>>>>>WE HAD TO REPLACE THE TIRES WITH ONLY 20,000 MILES ON IN ORDER FOR OUR VEHICLE TO PASS INSPECTION. TIRES ARE RATED AT 50,000. DEALER CLAIMED IT WAS BECAUSE OUR REAR WHEELS WERE OUT OF ALIGNMENT YET THEY HAD NO WAY OF ALIGNING THE REAR WHEELS SO NOTHING WAS DONE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM BUT PAY ABOVE MSRP FOR TWO NEW TIRES. A FEW WEEKS LATER WE WENT TO A LOCAL TIRE STORE FOR TWO MORE AS WE WERE TRAVELING AND DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE ANY CHANCES.

>>>>>THE CAR'S PASSENGER SIDE TIE ROD WAS CRACKED, MOST LIKELY SINCE THE DAY OF MANUFACTURING. THE CAR SPUN AROUND 180 DEGREES. THE CAR ROLLED THREE TIMES AT 75 MPH. WIFE HAS MEMORY PROBLEMS AS WELL AS SOME PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS. TOYOTA SAID THAT THE CAR HAVING LOST THE PASSENGERS SIDE TIE ROD WOULD HAVE REMAINED CONTROLLABLE. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT AND I THINK TOYOTA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCIDENT. *NM

>>>>>TOTAL FAILURE OF STEERING. STEERING WHEEL JUST SPUN FREELY LIKE A TOY CAR. FORTUNATELY, THE FAILURE OCCURRED DURING PARALLEL PARKING, SO THE SPEED AT THE TIME WAS SLOW AND NO INJURIES OR DAMAGE RESULTED. THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS FAILURE COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN DEATH HAD THE TIMING OF THE FAILURE BEEN DIFFERENT. STEERING COMPONENTS WERE REPLACED UNDER EXISTING RECALL APPROXIMATELY 2 WEEKS AGO. I HAVEN'T HAD TOYOTA LOOK AT THE PROBLEM YET, HOPING THAT A 3RD PARTY INVESTIGATION WOULD BE MORE BENEFICIAL IN SAVING LIVES. *NM

>>>>>2005 PRIUS STALLED AT 70 MPH ON HIGHWAY, COULD NOT RESTART, HAD TO BE TOWED 150 MILES TO DEALERSHIP. *NM

PRIUS TIRE WEAR - GOODYEAR INTEGRITY TIRES HAVE WORN TO THE POINT OF "RECOMMENDED" REPLACEMENT AT 20000 MILES. TOYOTA CUSTOMER EXPERIENCE CENTER & DEALER CLAIM THAT PRIUS TIRES "WEAR FASTER THAN MOST CARS"... I HAVE NOT HEARD OF A 50,000 MILE TIRE LASTING ONLY 20,000 MILES - TOYOTA SHOULD BE FORCED TO INVESTIGATE WHY THE PRIUS RUINS TIRES SO QUICKLY. CONSUMER AFFAIRS ALSO IS TAKING COMPLAINTS ON PRIUS TIRE WEAR. *JB

>>>>>OUR 2005 PRIUS SHUT DOWN ON 07/15/06 WHILE MY WIFE WAS TRYING TO GET HOME THAT EVENING. SHE WAS 200 MILES FROM THE NEAREST TOYOTA DEALER. THE CAR NEEDED TO BE TOWED FROM ALAMOSA TO PUEBLO. A COMPLETE CAR SHUTDOWN IS A VERY SERIOUS SAFETY HAZARD ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE A WOMAN IN A DESOLATE ROAD AT NIGHT. THE CAR HAS LESS THAN 35,000 MILES. TOYOTA FAILED TO COMPLETELY REIMBURSE ALL MY COST. MY WIFE HAD TO STAY IN A MOTEL THAT NIGHT AND I INCURRED THE COST OF GETTING HER HOME AND THEN DRIVING FROM DENVER AGAIN TO RETRIEVE THE CAR. ALONG WITH THE SAFETY ISSUE AND TOYATAS' REFUSAL TO REIMBURSE ALL MY COSTS, HAS LEFT ME TOTALLY APPALLED WITH TOYOTA. THE MASS AIRFLOW SENSOR I AM BEING TOLD IS THE CAUSE OF THE VEHICLE SHUT DOWN. *NM

>>>>>DT*: THE CONTACT STATED THE VEHICLE STALLED ON TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS. THE FIRST TIME IT OCCURRED WAS ON APRIL 7TH WHILE DRIVING AT A STEADY SPEED OF 25MPH. THE SECOND TIME IT OCCURRED WAS ON APRIL 21ST WHILE DRIVING AT A STEADY SPEED OF 5-15 MPH. ALL THE WARNING LIGHTS ILLUMINATED AND THE VEHICLE WAS PULLED OVER. ONCE PULLED OVER, THE VEHICLE WOULD NOT GO BACK INTO THE DRIVE POSITION. AFTERWARDS, IT STALLED AND WOULD NOT RESTART. THE STALLING OCCURRED 3-5 MINUTES AFTER IT WAS PULLED OVER. THE VEHICLE WAS TOWED TO THE DEALERSHIP BOTH TIMES. THE FIRST TIME THE DEALER REPLACED THE ENTIRE TRANSMISSION. THE SECOND TIME THE DEALER REPLACED THE INVERTER. ON APRIL 23RD WHILE DRIVING THE DASH BOARD LIGHTS BECAME INOPERABLE INCLUDING THE SPEEDOMETER, AND THE GEAR INDICATOR. THE CONTACT ALERTED THE DEALERSHIP BY PHONE WHO EXPLAINED THE PROBLEM WAS LIKELY THE CIRCUIT BOARD AND IT WAS OKAY TO CONTINUE DRIVING THE VEHICLE. AFTERWARDS, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO BLOW OUT HOT AND COLD AIR AND THE DEALERSHIP WAS ALERTED AGAIN WHICH EXPLAINED IT WAS OKAY TO CONTINUE DRIVING. SHORTLY AFTER IT BEGAN TO RAIN, THE WIPERS WERE TURNED ON, AND THE DASH LIGHTS BECAME INOPERABLE ONCE AGAIN. THE VEHICLE IS SCHEDULED FOR INSPECTION ON MONDAY MAY 8TH.

 

>>>>>THE 2005 PRIUS WE OWN WILL NOT START AT SCATTERED TIMES (AFTER DRIVING FOR SOME TIME AND THEN STOPPING AND TURNING THE ENGINE OFF). THE SCREEN ON THE DASHBOARD PANEL LIGHTS UP PARTIALLY AND NOT ALWAYS THE SAME ON REPEATED TRIES. OTHER STRANGE ELECTRICAL EVENTS OCCUR SUCH AS THE AUTOMATIC WINDOWS GOING DOWN WHEN THE CAR IS TURNED OFF AFTER TRYING TO START IT UNSUCCESSFULLY. THE CAR WILL START AT SOME TIME - UP TO 20 MINUTES AFTER LETTING CAR SIT. THESE EVENTS ARE SIMILAR TO THOSE THAT OCCURRED IN DAYS PRIOR TO THE MARCH 29,2005 WHEN THE CAR STALLED AT 45 MPH ON A HIGHWAY IN THE OUTER BANKS OF NORTH CAROLINAS AND WAS SERVICED WITH WHAT BECAME A RECALL LATER FOR PRIUS'S. THE MOST RECENT PROBLEMS OCCURRED ON MARCH 17TH AND MAY 1, 2006. WE HAVE TAKEN THE CAR TO LUSTINE TOYOTA IN WOODBRIDGE, VA AND THEY HAVE TESTED THE CAR AND SAY THAT EVERYTHING CHECKS OUT OK AND THEIR IS NO SERVICE BULLETIN FROM TOYOTA. THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE CAR AGAIN TODAY. WE ARE CONCERNED THAT THE PROBLEM COULD CONTINUE AND PLACE US IN A DANGEROUS SITUATION EITHER FROM ANOTHER STALLING INCIDENT OR LEAVING US IN A DANGEROUS PLACE WITH A CAR THAT WILL NOT START. *NM

 

MY 2005 PRIUS HAD A FLAT TIRE LAST WEEK, I TOOK IT TO A TIRE SHOP TO FIND OUT ALL FOUR TIRES WERE WORN DUE TO ALIGNMENT PROBLEMS WITH THE CAR. I HAVE HAD IT SERVICED EACH TIME AT THE DEALER WHERE I PURCHASED THE CAR AND THEY ROTATED THE TIRES ONCE, I THOUGHT THEY HAD TWICE. IN ANY EVENT THEY SAID I MUST HAVE HIT A LARGE POTHOLE WITH MY REAR TIRE, BECAUSE IT WAS THE WORST. ALL FOUR TIRES HAD WORN UNEVENLY. THE ORIGINAL TIRE DEALER I TOOK THE CAR TO SAID THIS WAS A COMMON PROBLEM WITH THE CAR AND THE SECOND TIRE DEALER WHERE I HAD THE ALIGNMENT DONE AND NEW TIRES PUT ON SAID IT WAS A COMMON PROBLEM. THEY HAVE DEVELOPED A SHIM FOR REAR WHEEL ALIGNMENT AND SAID IT WAS A VERY COMMON PROBLEM WITH THE PRIUS. THEY ALSO SAID THEY COULD SEE NO EVIDENCE OF AND DAMAGE BY A POTHOLE OR ANYTHING ELSE. I FELT BAD THE DEALER WOULD NOT OWN UP TO THE PROBLEM. I KNOW I DIDN'T ROTATE TIRES AS OFTEN AS I SHOULD HAVE, BUT I HAVE A MERCURY AND FORD THAT HAVE THEIR TIRES ROTATED ABOUT EVER 15,000 MILES. I GET GREAT TIRE WEAR AND HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS. BY TIME I GOT THE ALIGNMENT AND THE TIRES I WAS INTO IT OVER $500.(THAT'S A LOT OF GAS). THE TIRE DEALERS SAID IT WAS THE CAR MORE THAN THE TIRES. I HAVE HAD TOYOTAS IN THE PAST AND WAS VERY DISSAPOINTED IN THEIR RESPONSE TO THIS ONE. I HAVE SORT OF LOST CONFIDENCE IN THIS CAR AND EVEN DISCUSSED GETTING A DIFFERENT CAR WITH THE DEALER BUT THEY WERE UNWILLING TO DISCUSS THAT. *NM

[Roadrunner]

Does the *NM and *JB, etc, have any recognition in these above entries?

[06StangAwesomecar]

But if you tell the average Joe that Toyota has as many recalls as anybody else, they dont beleive you.

 

 

That is a fact, heck just read the replies BOF..

[ford-boy]

Does the *NM and *JB, etc, have any recognition in these above entries?

I don't know what they are for. I should have edited them out.

[bec5150]

I have a friend who drives a 2001 Toyota Celica GTS. He knows less than NOTHING about cars but does read the paper everyday. He told me that his next vehicle won't be a Toyota because of all of the recalls. If he figured it out...

 

The one thing about this recall is that it's with a proven system (every car has steering) and it's a structural piece. I think that a problem with a proven, structural piece just screems CHEAP!!! The GM X cars of the 80's comes to mind.

 

This ain't no check engine light or airbag sensor. This is inexcusable.

Edited December 15, 2006 by bec5150

[marc-o]

This ain't no check engine light or airbag sensor. This is inexcusable.

 

I'm going to disagree with you on that... is Ford's spark plug problem inexcusable? What about the brake master cylinder/cruise control fire issue recalls? What about all those laptop batteries that were recalled and the problems with produce and salmonella lately? People try to improve on proven principles, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. One recall would never ruin an otherwise excellent product for me. I would be very upset if this stuff happened to me, but I'll readily admit I am not at all perfect, neither is anyone else I know.

 

That said... the unmistakable trend of Toyota recalls should be cause for concern...but any company (car or otherwise) is always just one step away from another massive recall that could destroy its reputation. What never ceases to amaze me is how much time and effort was put into reassuring people certain Ford recalls were isolated or wouldn't be repeated...yet when the same thing happens to another company (which here has included essentially every major automaker) it's the end all.

 

Generally speaking it's clear a lot of problems that would never have caused recalls in the past are huge issues now...consumers demand perfection (nothing wrong with that) but the stakes and risks of litigation are bigger than ever. Vioxx is a great example - people who were overweight, smoked, did drugs and had pre-existing conditions actually sue a company complaining they were at excessive risk for heart problems due to the medication. I'm not usually on the side of big business, but at some point this really gets excessive. Ironically, problems that may not cause harm (in 0.04% of cases) but will likely cost an arm and a leg (eg GM's piston slap) aren't covered...well not until we see someone get piston slapped in the face :reading:

[Bluecon]

A large part of the problem is not the recalls but how they are taken care of. With the Ford engine fire problem you take the vehicle to the dealer and he disconnects your cruise control and says see you later when we get the parts.

 

I know a guy that has a Ford Explorer and an Infinity(like the Murano). The Ford has chrome mags and the chrome is coming off in large chunks(not just flakes)--the dealer told him the problem is the result of driving it in snow and salt. It is a 4 wheel drive vehicle that shouldn't be driven in snow! He took his Infinity in for regular maintenance and they did a total brake job at no charge. What will he buy next time?

[05fordgt]

He took his Infinity in for regular maintenance and they did a total brake job at no charge. What will he buy next time?

 

Isn't Infinity like BMW, where they cover EVERYTHING while the car is under the bumper to bumper. BMW covers all mantinence items until the warranty runs out. I think Infinity does the same, correct? If so, this doesn't suprise me.

[bec5150]

I'm going to disagree with you on that... is Ford's spark plug problem inexcusable? What about the brake master cylinder/cruise control fire issue recalls? What about all those laptop batteries that were recalled and the problems with produce and salmonella lately? People try to improve on proven principles, sometimes it works out sometimes it doesn't. One recall would never ruin an otherwise excellent product for me. I would be very upset if this stuff happened to me, but I'll readily admit I am not at all perfect, neither is anyone else I know.

 

That said... the unmistakable trend of Toyota recalls should be cause for concern...but any company (car or otherwise) is always just one step away from another massive recall that could destroy its reputation. What never ceases to amaze me is how much time and effort was put into reassuring people certain Ford recalls were isolated or wouldn't be repeated...yet when the same thing happens to another company (which here has included essentially every major automaker) it's the end all.

 

Generally speaking it's clear a lot of problems that would never have caused recalls in the past are huge issues now...consumers demand perfection (nothing wrong with that) but the stakes and risks of litigation are bigger than ever. Vioxx is a great example - people who were overweight, smoked, did drugs and had pre-existing conditions actually sue a company complaining they were at excessive risk for heart problems due to the medication. I'm not usually on the side of big business, but at some point this really gets excessive. Ironically, problems that may not cause harm (in 0.04% of cases) but will likely cost an arm and a leg (eg GM's piston slap) aren't covered...well not until we see someone get piston slapped in the face :reading:

I am not here to argue whether other products that are recalled are otherwise good or not. Furthermore, I am not here to discuss the excusability of any other recalls.

 

According to the recall, it's a steering shaft assembly. "steering shaft assembly could become loose or crack." To me, in my opinion, that's inexcusable. My Honda has had three recalls, all stuff that is, as you say, new. One was an anti-corrosion boot for the AT trans shifter cable. Another one was for the new "gentle" airbags and the sensor therein. This sort of thing is unfortunate but excusable. Even Ford's horrible issues with the 3.8L V-6 could be attributed to new designs of head gaskets even though the way Ford handled the problem may not be excused.

 

But this particular Toyota recall screems "mid 70's General Motors!!" This Toyota recall is a steering shaft. I mean, it's a piece of metal or other matieral that is supposed to be engineered to a certain strength and/or durability. There is not much different between a shaft today and the one used on the Model T. The fact that it is coming loose or cracking is simply a byproduct of using an inferior material or an inadequate amount of proper material to do the job. That's uncalled for and inexcusable.

 

Just an opinion, nothing more.

[ebritt]

I am not here to argue whether other products that are recalled are otherwise good or not. Furthermore, I am not here to discuss the excusability of any other recalls.

 

According to the recall, it's a steering shaft assembly. "steering shaft assembly could become loose or crack." To me, in my opinion, that's inexcusable. My Honda has had three recalls, all stuff that is, as you say, new. One was an anti-corrosion boot for the AT trans shifter cable. Another one was for the new "gentle" airbags and the sensor therein. This sort of thing is unfortunate but excusable. Even Ford's horrible issues with the 3.8L V-6 could be attributed to new designs of head gaskets even though the way Ford handled the problem may not be excused.

 

But this particular Toyota recall screems "mid 70's General Motors!!" This Toyota recall is a steering shaft. I mean, it's a piece of metal or other matieral that is supposed to be engineered to a certain strength and/or durability. There is not much different between a shaft today and the one used on the Model T. The fact that it is coming loose or cracking is simply a byproduct of using an inferior material or an inadequate amount of proper material to do the job. That's uncalled for and inexcusable.

 

Just an opinion, nothing more.

Sounds to me like Toyota is willing to sacrifice saety and quality to get the number 1 spot.

 

I think we will see more of this in the future.

[bec5150]

Sounds to me like Toyota is willing to sacrifice saety and quality to get the number 1 spot.

 

I think we will see more of this in the future.

I wouldn't say that. I mean, saying that they are willing to sacrifice safety and quality to be #1 is like saying a restaurant is willing to sacrifice flavor to have the biggest eatery. See the contradiction?

 

But what happens is a company gets so big and forgets how they got so big. Toyota took steering gear design as a given, never dotting the I's and crossed the T's on a fundamental item. Kmart did the same thing when they go so big, never acknowledging WalMart as a threat. Simply put, the Toyota of 10 years ago wouldn't have these problems as they still had the fire, the desperation, the sense of urgency that makes a company hungry enough to grow the way Toyota has.

[marc-o]

Just an opinion, nothing more.

 

And of course, so is mine...

 

One thing that rarely if ever gets discussed in recalls is the fault suppliers have in the matter. It's well known that some faulty pieces are due to suppliers' errors, faulty specs or just plain carelessness. I'm not trying to use this as an excuse, it's clearly a problem that will affect any manufacturer as they all buy many parts from seperate suppliers (in many cases, the same ones).

 

That's the problem about being quick in assigning blame for a recall... if the part that is faulty was made by a supplier who screwed up, how do I know that supplier isn't putting screwy things in 10 other different brands of cars? You don't, because that info isn't publicly available, and depends on a problem (and its source) being disclosed - good luck. Of course the Firestone tire problem exemplifies this completely - it just happens to be on a Ford vehicle; but if this had happened on a Toyota vehicle, I have no doubt many people would jump the gun and accuse them, despite the prevailing belief (here for sure) that it's actually a tire problem.

 

Here's another example: Magna makes a part for the Honda Pilot, and it is recalled...woops...but wait, they also make similar parts in Toyotas, Mercedes, VW's, BMW's, Chevrolets and Fords... what now? Whose fault is that? It depends...on a lot of things...

[ebritt]

And of course, so is mine...

 

One thing that rarely if ever gets discussed in recalls is the fault suppliers have in the matter. It's well known that some faulty pieces are due to suppliers' errors, faulty specs or just plain carelessness. I'm not trying to use this as an excuse, it's clearly a problem that will affect any manufacturer as they all buy many parts from seperate suppliers (in many cases, the same ones).

 

That's the problem about being quick in assigning blame for a recall... if the part that is faulty was made by a supplier who screwed up, how do I know that supplier isn't putting screwy things in 10 other different brands of cars? You don't, because that info isn't publicly available, and depends on a problem (and its source) being disclosed - good luck. Of course the Firestone tire problem exemplifies this completely - it just happens to be on a Ford vehicle; but if this had happened on a Toyota vehicle, I have no doubt many people would jump the gun and accuse them, despite the prevailing belief (here for sure) that it's actually a tire problem.

 

Here's another example: Magna makes a part for the Honda Pilot, and it is recalled...woops...but wait, they also make similar parts in Toyotas, Mercedes, VW's, BMW's, Chevrolets and Fords... what now? Whose fault is that? It depends...on a lot of things...

I can add my 2 cents here... I worked for Siemens Electromechanical and produced several different relays for GM\Delphi. The comapny was German owned and they were happy to make 7 to 10% proffit. There were almost never any quality issuse because we as operators were highly trained and well paid. Along comes the lawsuit in Europe over WWII and Siemens has to pay millions in restitution to Jewish families. This forced Siemens to sell some assets namely us. Tyco bought the comany out. Almost Immediately Tyco eliminated our tool makers, machinists and engineers. Our production lines went down from 5 people to 3. (Each line had a toolmaker as lead technician) The line operated fair with this arrangement for awhile. We as operators were now responsible for for almost all setup maintence, and repair of the line. But that was not cheap enough. More highly trained operator were let go in favor of temporaries, who almost immediately became full time for half the pay. Quality took a nose dive. Still the plant manager claimed we were (not proffitable enough for Tyco) and started sending lines to Mexico. All went to hell from there. I was offered another job elsewhere and got out 6 months before they shut the plant down completely.

[bec5150]

And of course, so is mine...

 

One thing that rarely if ever gets discussed in recalls is the fault suppliers have in the matter. It's well known that some faulty pieces are due to suppliers' errors, faulty specs or just plain carelessness. I'm not trying to use this as an excuse, it's clearly a problem that will affect any manufacturer as they all buy many parts from seperate suppliers (in many cases, the same ones).

 

That's the problem about being quick in assigning blame for a recall... if the part that is faulty was made by a supplier who screwed up, how do I know that supplier isn't putting screwy things in 10 other different brands of cars? You don't, because that info isn't publicly available, and depends on a problem (and its source) being disclosed - good luck. Of course the Firestone tire problem exemplifies this completely - it just happens to be on a Ford vehicle; but if this had happened on a Toyota vehicle, I have no doubt many people would jump the gun and accuse them, despite the prevailing belief (here for sure) that it's actually a tire problem.

 

Here's another example: Magna makes a part for the Honda Pilot, and it is recalled...woops...but wait, they also make similar parts in Toyotas, Mercedes, VW's, BMW's, Chevrolets and Fords... what now? Whose fault is that? It depends...on a lot of things...

I never assigned fault. I just said it's inexcusable for this particular part to go out. As a consumer I couldn't care less who's fault it is.

[06StangAwesomecar]

I can add my 2 cents here... I worked for Siemens Electromechanical and produced several different relays for GM\Delphi. The comapny was German owned and they were happy to make 7 to 10% proffit. There were almost never any quality issuse because we as operators were highly trained and well paid. Along comes the lawsuit in Europe over WWII and Siemens has to pay millions in restitution to Jewish families. This forced Siemens to sell some assets namely us. Tyco bought the comany out. Almost Immediately Tyco eliminated our tool makers, machinists and engineers. Our production lines went down from 5 people to 3. (Each line had a toolmaker as lead technician) The line operated fair with this arrangement for awhile. We as operators were now responsible for for almost all setup maintence, and repair of the line. But that was not cheap enough. More highly trained operator were let go in favor of temporaries, who almost immediately became full time for half the pay. Quality took a nose dive. Still the plant manager claimed we were (not proffitable enough for Tyco) and started sending lines to Mexico. All went to hell from there. I was offered another job elsewhere and got out 6 months before they shut the plant down completely.

See that just SUCKS, was it union (doubt it) sorry to here that, I dont care if its union or not, what they do for the almighty dollar blows.

[NickF1011]

I wouldn't say that. I mean, saying that they are willing to sacrifice safety and quality to be #1 is like saying a restaurant is willing to sacrifice flavor to have the biggest eatery. See the contradiction?

 

It worked for McDonald's!

[marc-o]

I never assigned fault. I just said it's inexcusable for this particular part to go out. As a consumer I couldn't care less who's fault it is.

 

Right but that doesn't stop the same thing from happening with whatever new car is chosen. There isn't much anyone can do about that, other than not losing sight of the fact the slight possibility of unanticipated problems shouldn't overcome an overall satisfactory ownership experience.

[bec5150]

Right but that doesn't stop the same thing from happening with whatever new car is chosen. There isn't much anyone can do about that, other than not losing sight of the fact the slight possibility of unanticipated problems shouldn't overcome an overall satisfactory ownership experience.

A steering part should not fail...ever, under any circumstances or design. PERIOD. Tie rod ends and ball joints wear, power steering pumps fail, and rack and pinions and steering boxes have to be replaced, and I understand that.

 

HOWEVER, if someone told me that I had to accept that the company which made my car may have designed a piece of metal in the steering system that would break or fracture under normal use due to it's inadequacy, I would trade that car in TODAY!!!

 

Can you please, just admit, that in this case, this case of not a check engine light, or air bag sensor, or automatic transmission programming malfunction, but STEERING SHAFT, that Toyota blew it?

Edited December 17, 2006 by bec5150