7Mary3

Keep in mind Modica is an ex-Saturn dealer, possibly with an ax to grind. In any event, it wouldn't be a surprise if a crooked multi-make dealership chain would resort to selling Volts between franchises to collect the $7500 rebate. The Volt is selling, at least where I am. And if it wasn't selling, GM would not be increasing production. And, all you performance car/light truck fans better hope the Volt and cars like to do sell, because without their effect on CAFE you could just about kiss anything larger and more powerful than a Focus goodbye in a few very short years.

Like most myths, there is a little bit of truth in it. I remember the 'slip out of park' issue well. As was mentioned in one of the earlier posts, there were instances of Fords slipping from 'Park' to 'Reverse' that prompted an overy zealous N.H.T.S.A. (lead at the time by Ralph Nader protogee Joan Claybrook) to initiate a recall of pretty much every automatic transmission equipped Ford built in the previous 20 years, or something like that. What triggered the recall is that the N.H.T.S.A. determined that the Fords in question had a significantly higher instance of doing this than comparable GM and Chrysler products. No real root cause could be found other than driver error, but some thought that the Ford shift linkage (including the column parts) seemed to have more play and wore out faster than other makes. I seem to recall there were also questions raised about the distance between 'Park' and 'Reverse' on the selector, and something about the park mechanism in the transmission itself. I think it was a combination of factors that made it easier for an inattentive driver to think the car was in 'Park' when it actually was not compared to other cars. The 'recall' was nothing more than a warning label, but I think the point the book is trying to make is that the recall should have been more involved. However, if they couldn't find an issue, what was the recall supposed to be? As far as Ford automatic transmission quality is concerned, there were issues in the 60's and 70's. While the C-6 was a large robust transmission, the C-4 was a very small unit that was fine in a small car such as a 6 cylinder Maverick, but was marginal at best in anything larger. This was the same problem GM had when they tried to use the Turbo-Hydramatic 200's in full size cars. I would be a bit hesitant to call the C-4 a bad transmission, but in a Torino or F-100 it wouldn't last. I don't think the FMX was any good at all. It was really a re-hash of the old Borg-Warner designed Cruise-O-Matic, a design that should have died with the Edsel. I might read the book, but I don't think I buy the story!

Interesting trucks! Not sure what exactly the situation is in Turkey with Ford, but Chrysler still markets heavy duty Dodge trucks in Turkey. Chrysler's operation is Turkey started as a joint venture with a Turkish company, but over the years Chrysler sold it's interest to the Turkish partner. If Chrysler still has an interest in it, I assume it is very small. The Cargo cab would make an interesting story. I think Freightliner still ownes the tooling and rights to produce it in the U.S.. Iveco ended up with it in Europe. The rest of the world where it is built, who knows? Class 6 and larger cabovers are dead in North America except for refuse hauling. I don't see them coming back unless length laws are reinstated, and that isn't too likely. If Iveco makes good on their promise (or threat?) to come back to the U.S., it will likely be with Australian produced conventionals.

True on both points. I know of a fire department that was having nothing but problems with some 6.0L Powerstroke powered E-350 cutaway ambulances. Ford offered to extend the warranty and threw in an ESP at a very attractive price. The department decided to purchase more of the E-350's because with the warranty and ESP, the costs of that vehicle became predictable.

There won't be any commitments until there are enough examples provided for testing. LASD is one of the first to do comprehesive testing on the Caprice, and the Ford PI too for that matter. You will start to see significant orders after the Michigan State Police and California Highway Patrol conduct their testing. Those two agencies are considered the 'standard' in police car testing.

Wow, someone with some fleet vehicle spec. writing experience! Never ceases to amaze me how many REAL experts lurk around here. Anyway, absolutely true, particularly with municipal fleets. You write your spec., you test the vehicles, and cheapest one usually wins. In a private fleet, you usually have the luxury to say "I don't want to buy that one because it's a POS, case closed". However, in a municipal fleet you have to justify buying a more expensive vehicle. In this case, that's what happened. The Charger's excess operating costs and the savings of using some existing equipment in the new CVPI's justified the purchase of the more expensive Ford. BUT, note that they had to try the Charger to get the hard data to be able to say it indeed had higher operating costs. So, the two ways a municipal fleet can pick what police car they want to buy is to get creative with the spec. and/or try the one they don't want and *hope* it has problems. Case in point at one time the LASD didn't want any Diplomats or Gran Furys because of front suspension trouble they were experiencing with those cars. So, next purchasing go-around they actually wrote into the spec. that cars with transverse torsion bar front suspension would be ineligible to bid. A place I worked at wanted only GMC and Ford medium duty trucks, no Internationals. They wrote a spec. that required a gasoline engine of between 425 and 430 cubic inches. GMC had a 427, Ford had a 429. International only had a 404 and a 446, so they were disqualified!

Good points, but I think the CV PI's biggest advantage in the police car market was that it was the only available large RWD car for many years. The LASD favored Chevys most of the time (and in fact was largely responsible for the 1976 9C1 Nova) and bought Caprice's right up until the end in 1996. Not to say they didn't give other makes a chance, the Diplomat and the Fox platform LTD II were tried with generally poor results. When the old Caprice was available, the police car market was roughly 45% CV, 45% Caprice, and the rest Intrepid/Lumina/Mustang/Camaro. You couldn't really say the either the CV or Caprice had an advantage. As soon as the old Caprice was gone, Ford's police car share shot up to around 85%, which says to me the large RWD platform was more important than any sort of brand loyalty.

Again, it is an issue for some departments. Tell me, how well did the Impala PI do against the CV PI sales wise? Or how about the old Taurus police car? The Intrepid?

Sure, most officers find out during briefing if they will be involved in a pursuit that day. Makes choosing a squad so much easier.................

Souds like this comes from someone who has been there, and done that. Regardless, I think the AWD PI is a contender. I am not sure about the FWD PI, though there are probably some departments that could use it. Mayberry, for instance...........

The reasoning is you don't want an LEO to have to think about what kind of vehicle he is driving while he is in the middle of a pursuit or trying to get somewhere Code 3. As an example many departments prohibit officers from driving SUV's on duty unless they have had the special driver training class for that type of vehicle, and even then in most cases those vehicles are not to be used in any type of pursuit, only Code 3. Many departments consider it a safety issue. Maybe in other states departments feel it isn't an issue, but here in Southern California it is. How many times does an officer have to drive fast in a urban area? Once might be enough. Over time we might see departments move away from this policy, but it still seems pretty well entrenched at this point. FWD patrol cars have been tested, but as of yet none have been purchased by the major departments for anything other than administration work. I have relatives and friends at the LASD, and I have been following their testing. It will be interesting to see what they decide to purchase.

There is a big reluctance here for agencies to adopt FWD patrol cars due to their different handling characteristics compared to RWD patrol cars. AWD cars are viewed more favorably.

The track and ambient temps. during the 32 lap high speed vehicle dynamics evaluation were significantly higher when the Caprice was tested compared to the the PI AWD Base. Considering the length and speed of this particular test, I think track and ambient temperatures were more of a factor in this test than the other dynamic evaluations. Caprice temps.: 79-80 degrees ambient, 84-91 degrees track (page 36). PI AWD Base temps.: 65-70 degrees ambient, 69-80 degrees track (Page 60). I think the Caprice and PI AWD Base are the two most likely vehicles to be considered for purchase by the LAUSD. It was also interesting (but not surprising!) to see which car the maintenance people favored!

The B-61 was one of Mack's best, no question. One fleet I used to work for had an R-685. That was a nice driving truck, 237 horse Maxidyne and a 5 speed. I remember a lot of guys saying a Ford L was a poor man's Mack R!

You should read it again. The Caprice earned plenty of 10's. Also note that the Caprice vehicle dynamics evaluation was later in the day than the Ford PI tests, and the track and ambient temperatures were quite a bit higher. The Ecoboost PI did very well, no doubt. The real choice for th LAUSD will probably be between the Caprice, Charger, and PI AWD Base, as I think the Ecoboost version will probably be too expensive. It will be intersting to see which one the Sheriff's go with. L.A.P.D. has bought a number of Chargers recently.

I believe that is correct that except for the Acterra, the Sterlings remained basically Ford designs. And I recall the story of the Acterra franchises resulting in a lawsuit as well. When it was introduced, I thought the HN-80's would be Ford's crowning achievement in big trucks. Here on the west coast, they seemed to have got off on a slow start sales-wise, possibly because they came out during the big Freightliner push (gauranteed buy-back program). Anyway, less than a year after introduction Ford announced the sale to Freightliner, and that probably didn't do sales any good either. My fleet stayed away from them (even after years of buying L series trucks) so I didn't get any first-hand experience with them. However, I heard a lot of negative comments about Sterlings in the years that followed, mainly about the cabs, interiors, and electrical components. One fleet guy I heard from said it was not uncommon for the whole dash to come loose! It seems most of the fleets that favored Fords went to Freightliner or International after the L series was phased out, and never looked back. Volvo and Mack. There's a topic. I see Volvo keeeping Mack primarily as a vocational line, but still doing some over-the-road business (different from Freightliner, who quickly ended any and all over-the-road models from the Ford/Sterling line). I personally rather like Volvo engines, so I don't really mind the thought of a Mack with a Volvo-based engine in it, as long as the rest of the truck (frame and axles in particular) are Mack.

Remember MAN comes with a very substantial engine business. And while we are on the subject, I believe a couple of those new International Maxforce diesels MAN designs.

Well, according to what have read Ford will not return to investment grade for some time, even if their results continue to improve. Nonetheless............. With regards to EBIT, I though GM was essentially operating tax free for a number of quarters, something about carrying losses forward.

And speaking of vocational, the latest 'Light & Medium Truck' has an article about Freightliner's push into vocational. David Hames, general manager of DTNA, says that when Sterling was around Freightliner's commitment to vocational was secondary. However, Sterling's inability to become a dominant player in vocational and the costs of meeting 2010 emissions (and I'll add the fact that the trucks had a bad reputation) 'helped' the company's decison to close down the product. Now Freightliner is introducing 3 new trucks to take the place of the discontinued Sterlings in the severe service field. Also, looks like Western Star is also moving into the premium severe service/vocational market, no doubt to compete with the 'new' Caterpllar trucks.

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011/05/05/ford-vs-gm-heres-who-analysts-like-better/?mod=yahoo_hs Go figure.

Ford is starting to loose ground in the fleet/commercial markets. Of course, those are usually not high margin sales so who knows what it means for the bottom line. Ford is facing a lot of new and aggressive competition in police, vans, and commercial trucks. Joe Castelli seems poised to take a lot of Ford's fleet business. Anyone know what Nissan's commercial truck plans are?

Navistar dealers? No, they can't be happy about this, just as they have never been happy about 'Blue Diamond' even given their sales numbers. Something of a cozy relationship exists between International and Cat these days. Some of those new big bore 'Maxforce' diesels are Cats without ACERT. Neat, huh? The 'core business' speach comes out whenever profits are low in a market segment. Cat knows it, remember their reason for leaving the highway engine business was to focus on their machinery 'core business'. Had nothing to do with a failed emission control strategy. You just think it did. Will this Cat truck venture play? I think it will, but I don't see it expanding outside of heavy vocational. Rumor is International is becoming a takeover target. Cat has been named as a potential buyer, but some say keep your eye on Volkswagen. A deal like that could jeapordize joint ventures.........

That is why I am scared of an F-150 with a cast magnesium chassis......

I remember those! Bad news. Compared to 1979, the 1980's were a disaster. Lightweight frame and Twin Traction Beam. 351M and 400. Ford was completely outclassed by GM and Dodge for 24 months. 1982 was better. BTW, I had a Dodge Ram D-150 back then and it was one of the best trucks I ever owned.

I don't know how competitve weight-wise Ford's cars are at the moment, but since the majority are relatively fresh designs, I would guess they would compare well. I think the latest F-150 may be slightly heavier than a comparable GM 1500 or Ram 1500, but probably not enough to matter. The Super Duty is another story. Even with GM's new HD chassis, the Ford is still considerably heavier. And this is a problem not only from a fuel economy standpoint, but also a capacity standpoint. Often a Ford Super Duty has less payload than a comparable GM or Dodge with a similar G.V.W.. The heavier unladen weight eats payload. I for one hope the Super Duty gets a REAL refresh soon, not another bling bling grille job. The new powertrains are competitive, the rest of the truck is not.