7Mary3

It is funny, but I think Ford proved a pickup/light truck cab is clearly best for class 4 and 5, and GM (and the other medium builders) proved that a larger cab is preferable for class 6 and larger. I think (as do others here) that the new International Terrastar will not be a success, as it makes the same mistake GM did with their Topkick and Kodiak 4500 and 5500.

If you look back to my earlier post, I said 'enforcement' fleet. By that I ment cars specifically procured for patrol and pursuit work. Naturally a medium or large sized agency will have a number of different vehicles for a multitude of tasks. I would hope you wouldn't need municipal fleet experience to realize that. I assume Ford is marketing the P.I. to be a patrol car, not a car suitable for administrative tasks only. Then again........

And there certainly is truth to that. I think the new Ford P.I.'s chances would be much better if there were no RWD alternatives. In talking to those I know 'still in the biz', so to speak, there is a lot more interest in the new Caprice than there is in the Ford P.I.. Time will tell.

Many agencies will not accept FWD squads. Departments will buy whatever they want, for whatever reason they deem valid. L.A. Sheriff's wrote in a rule against torsion bar front suspension in squads after they had all those problems with the Dodge Diplomats in the early 80's.

It is interesting that Ford is not calling this car a Taurus. I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with the last Taurus police car's significantly less than stellar record.......

Got news for you, they all fall apart around here at 50,000 miles!

L.A.P.D. currently currently uses Crown Vics ONLY for regular enforcement duty. Other cars are purchased for administrative tasks. 9C1 Tahoes are purchased for special assignments and are not to be used for pursuit. I don't know what they are testing at the moment. I can't speak for N.Y.P.D.. If you are talking about heavily congested inner city work like N.Y.P.D. is confronted with, the type of car is less critical. They just need something to get them to the scene of the crime! In Los Angeles, it seems that a significant number of perps try their luck in a high speed chase, so they type of car becomes more of an issue. Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department is currently Crown Vic only as well. They have tested the Charger, but felt the Hemi version was actually a bit too fast! Visibility is also an issue with the Charger. An FWD car will not meet enforcement specifications for that agency, though like L.A.P.D. some Impalas are purchased for administration and process servers.

The way I see it, if GM does indeed get back into mediums, it's a sure bet that Ford will stay in the business.

Well, what do you know: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/05/gm-studying-reentry-into-mediumduty-segment.html I figure if GM moved production to Mexico and reintroduced the class 6 through 8 Topkick and Kodiak, then came up with a new class 4 and 5 based on the Silverado/Sierra (a la Ford 450 and 550), they could be a contender. But that's just me thinking out loud.....

Not a factor even if the Ford P.I. does handle better than the Caprice. I have said it before, and I will say it again. Most major police departments in the U.S. do not want a mix of FWD and RWD in their enforcement fleet. It is a training issue, as FWD and RWD cars handle so differently. Ford will probably sell some P.I.'s to departments in the northeast that have gone to the Impala because of the advantages of FWD in inclement weather, but that will be it. Too easy for major departments currently using the Crown Vic. to go with the Charger or Caprice.

Not sensing a lot of excitement for the new Ford P.I.. Might not be elegible to bid for a lot of departments around here. Seems like everyone is waiting for the Caprice.

That's funny! Easy on the company Kool-Aid there Pipas. Aggressive pricing had nothing to do with it? How many fleets buy on low bid? Stair-step? He does make some very good points about the difference between the daily rental fleets vs. commercial and government fleets. Remember a lot of those government sales are of a certain Panther that will be extinct soon. Ford is doing good in the fleet market, no question. And it sounds like they have learned their lesson on daily rentals too. BTW, once again, no mention of class 6 and 7 commercial trucks, which are pretty much exclusively fleet sales.

The Tempo used the 2.3L HSC engine, which had even less power than the 2.3l OHC. I know the Brazillian alcohol engines had high compression, but I doubt it helped much. Chevy used to sell a tandem axle 5 ton truck with a 292 6 cylinder in it down there, 10:1 pistons on alcohol.

Speaking of South America, I always wanted one of those Brazillian 'Bumpside' (1967-72) F-100's with the 292 Y-Block V-8. They made those trucks up until the mid-70's. The base engine was the 2.3L OHC!

I think the market was harsh on F today, but I think there is some concern the improvement might not be sustainable. Remember a lot of this will be outside of F's control. Debt is still a factor though.

You guys are right, Ford's medium duty marketing effort is weak and missdirected at best. It seems that they are allowing themselves to get crowded out of the big fleet business by International and Freightliner. Could it be the 'Blue Diamond' trucks are indeed stepchildren, unloved by either International or Ford? I would think that if Ford was really serious about class 6 and 7, and does have future plans for that market, they would agressively pursue it now. At the very least to 'hold their place' in it until a more serious effort comes to fruitation. As for the Isuzu-Spartan deal, I was a bit surprised by it! It was not exactly what my 'insiders' were predicting. The deal does make sense though. I think there might be more to it, too. Wait and see.......

This situation is really ironic for me. Two weeks ago, I convinced a friend to buy a Fusion. He was about to buy a Toyota Camry. He was very leery of buying a Ford, and all the Toyotas he had in the past were exemplary cars. Last week, the driver's seat starts moving, and he finds there is a recall. Not exactly confidence inspiring to a new customer. Now this is a minor recall, but the thing is right now, more people are considering buying Fords than ever before. This is where Ford will loose it if they are not careful.

Spinoff doesn't mean sell, but it usually means they ain't the same outfit anymore! Speaking of Caterpillar engines, there are still lots of the larger 2009 Cat engines available for installation in new class 8 trucks. With medium and heavy trucks, the year model of the engine, not the truck, determines what emissions regulations are applicable. So, 2009 engines are still legal. Good luck trying to sell those things...... BTW- I have seen the insides of the new 'Boss' 6.2L, and I am impressed! I hope that if Ford ever does consider a gas engine for the F-650, it's that one!

Did GM pay off it's government loans? Sure, if you say so! Remember that the bulk of the money that the government poured into GM was NOT in the form of loans, but an equity stake. Ostensibly, the government will be 'paid back' after the 'New GM' IPO when the government decides to sell it's shares. Will the government get all it's money back? Your guess is as good as mine. I say probably not. The government bailed GM out, and most of it was NOT in the form of a loan. It was an equity stake. We all own GM at this point, like it or not. The problem is that the only way there is any hope of getting OUR money back is for GM to become wildly successful. So, the only thing we can do is buy GM cars. Lots of cars. It really is our only hope.

In other truck news: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/04/22/Fiat-to-break-up-after-109-years/UPI-87541271970861/ I guess there won't be class 8 Dodge Ram after all (not that I was expecting one). I have heard off and on again rumors that Daimler may spin off DTNA (Freightliner, Western Star, Detroit Diesel). I think that for the most part the medium and heavy truck business is so different from passenger car/light truck now that the days of the big manufacturers building everything from small cars to class 8 trucks are over.

With regards to GM's situation, as I understand it they are facing something of a balloon payment due in 2013. The government wouldn't let them dump their pensions as it would probably have broken the PBGC at the time. If anyone can clarify, please do.

What is the latest on Ford's pensions? There was some concern a while back about funding, but I have not heard much lately. GM and Chrysler are going to have to make major payments to their plans in 2013, if they can't fund them the government will end up with them.

For the record, Freightliner will be using the GM 6.0L gas V-8 and an Allison 1000 series transmission in FCC stripped chassis. As for the 'Boss' 6.2L, I have been told that it will not be developed as a performance engine. It will be exclusively a truck/commercial powerplant, and despite rumors to the contrary, will not be used in the Mustang. The 5.0L 'Coyote' will be the performance V-8.

Wow, I heard that same speach from GMC reps. back in 2006! They were going to set the medium duty world on fire with their 8.1L gasser. We didn't buy any, opting instead for a big pre-buy of Freightliner and Ford mediums. I know of one local municipal fleet that did go with GMC gas Topkicks, with fair results. At least they are not doing the retrofit dance that we are. Anyway, even though GM didn't sell all too many gas mediums I would like to see Ford give it a shot, provided they have a gas engine up to the task. Those all-iron 8.1L's were pretty tough, and I am not sure the V-10 would be able to stand up to the abuse and heat cycles you see in a 26,000# GVW truck. Our local phone company bought a lot of V-10 F-550's and were not happy with them. Too many cylinder heads. I know the 3 valve versions are better. The 6.2L 'Boss' is not EPA certified for over 14,000# GVW. No idea why. Seems funny. Of course, a future larger HD version of the 'Boss' could be a possibility. Ford is building a gas powered ambulance chassis because they have no choice. Dodge (and Cummins) are indeed having trouble with ineffective regens. Sometimes it gets so bad the DPF needs to be replaced. As for the Ford that broke down on me, it seems like it might be a rusty fuel tank.