CarShark

Didn't we just have a thread like this a couple months ago? This whole thing just strikes me as classless and unbefitting of a moderator. To add to his defense, there are instances where it just seems like some of you guys are baiting him, like this thread, or like when Deanh was bashing him for owning a Panther while simultaneously trying to sell one to another poster. Unbelievable. And it just seems like whenever he posts something that's his opinion, no matter how valid or ridiculous, cue another of the regulars to chime in saying, "What do you know? You own a Panther." It's not always expressed that way, but that's the gist. We joke around a lot here, and it can go too far sometimes, but I have never seen a poster generate the kind of vitriol that P71 does. Why? Why not just ignore him? That's obvious. No one wants to. I'm starting to think people actively seek out his posts, just so they can get their blood boiling. It's become somewhat obvious that we don't have many conversations here. We have arguments. That's why threads are so easily derailed. New news almost becomes just a conduit for more fighting. About cars. About politics. About science. Whatever. It all could end if we wanted to, but we're all just a regular bunch of comedians, aren't we? Have to get that zinger in. Most of us have done it. It'd be one thing if you were just proving him wrong, but it's not about that. Not anymore. Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending his actions. The retarded smiley and the pink limp-wristed smiley crap got old fast. He still calls the D3s money losers, even though he still can't prove it. If someone disagrees with him, he calls them a cheerleader. He always manages to find the one bit of negativity in any article, review or press release. The thing is, pessimism, even unsubstantiated pessimism, is not a bannable offense. Everyone knows that. I think you'd have trouble docking him for harassment, because he probably gets more than he gives. Nick, Dean, RJ himself, hell, probably me too. All gone. IMO, this thread is the last recourse: humiliation. RJ probably set up this poll so Armada and a couple others would vote 'no', everyone else'd vote 'yes' and we'd all have another good laugh at his expense. That's why I voted 'yes'. I think P71 needs to move on to another message board. If this kind of 'chase 'em outta town' concerted effort is going to become a regular occurrence on this board, I think he needs to reevaluate whether it's worthwhile to post here. I think he might know the answer already. Unfortunately, that's why I might have to reconsider my membership, as well. Igor's posts are great, but fewer and farther between. The photoshops are a nice diversion, but I'm finding myself shaking my head more and more when I see more of the same bickering between the same people. Why don't I just ignore all the people on both sides that cause the problem. I did, for a couple days. Only read two posts. Both were started by myself. When I blocked out all the noise, I didn't find much left to hear.

Wait. Couldn't the cost savings have come from the fact that they aren't hiring so many people? Wouldn't that be both a good and a bad thing?

That's kinda what I figured, but while posting I thought to myself 'This was still during the SUV boom. Ford was making a couple thousand in profit from every unit. They wouldn't cut out a couple of bucks worth of metal from the design, right?'

What could they have possibly gained by making the roof weaker? Where were the risk assessors and bean counters to put the kibosh on that thinking?

1) How much could this potentially cost Ford when it's all said and done? 2) What will this mean for future roof crush legislation? I mean, how much tougher will they get? 3) If following the national regs doesn't protect you from a costly lawsuit (like I thought it did), what can? 4) I can see nearly all automakers fitting their SUVs/CUVs/Crossovers with stability control and tire pressure monitors ASAP if they aren't already.

Some thoughts: * The 9-7X is a joke. GM must be the king of the stopgap product. * I'm surprised that the Wrangler is so heavy. * I'm NOT surprised that the VUE is so heavy. The Wrangler has an excuse, because everything has to be reinforced with bolts and pig iron and lava rock so it can be an off-road vehicle. The VUE is supposed to be a Euro-flavored small CUV. It's doesn't have a third row option, like the RAV-4, but it's 500 pounds heavier in base form! Go for the big V-6 and add 4WD, and the difference balloons to almost 700 pounds. That has to hurt the fuel economy. Well, to be fair, to get all 237 horses out of the S2000, you have to rev the ever-lovin' nuts off of it, which can't help FE. GM's pushrods are good at making sure the power and torque are accessible lower in the range.* I'm a bit surprised that Mazda's sticking with the rotary. It would be one thing if they were using it across the range, from a sporty Mazda3 variant to the CX-7. But they've got it in just one small market car.

I, for one, didn't know they still had the boycott going. Of course, they're going to tout this as an example of their influence. Forcing "family values" on the private sector by making them ignore the undesirables. I would certainly hope that Ford ceasing their advertising to gay clientele is more about the ads not working well, rather than kowtowing to some bible-thumper on the bully pulpit.

My nurse managing mother and pediatrician father agree with you, Nick, and this future health educator does, too. Looks like we're back to education. As far as I'm concerned, the squeezing of the middle class lifestyle is a long time coming. The availability of credit and raiding of home equity throughout the 90s artificially inflated it. The bubble's bursting again. Basically everything put forth from Furious and his cohorts is just the same tired protectionist rhetoric.

I priced out a couple. A basic Corolla with slushmatic, Option Group D with cruise, stability control and traction control, door sill enhancements and XM satellite radio was $18,158. The second time, I came over all aspirational. Got the LE with Option Group I. Cruise, CD autochanger, stability control, traction control, keyless entry and moonroof. Yours for 19,934 of your dollars. The XRS doesn't seem like good value for money to me, performance-wise. I do like the Bluetooth and JBL audio and moonroof One thing I learned: Toyota has no idea how to do option packages at all! Group A might have 1, 2 and 3, while Group B will have 1, 2 and 4, but Group C will have 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then Group D would have 1, 2 and 5! It so incomprehensible, Toyota might as well have used individual options.

Jeez. Is this what it's come to? People have to feel guilty if they live in Michigan and don't drive and American car? I, for one, don't have that view, and thankfully others don't too. This is still a free market country. The best product for you should win, not the one you feel most obligated to drive.

I think Saturn's supposed to be the Euro-flavored brand.

I think all the subcompacts would be better mileage-wise if the companies offered the smaller engines that other markets get. I know they might be worried about performance, but I think people looking at this type of car would prefer them. Why do European superminis get so much better mileage than ours, besides the engines?

My favorite part was when the Sky was brand-new, and the "no haggle" pricing went out the window. DMA's up to $5000.

I agree. The xB went from 2300 lb chuckable, tunable high-mileage subcompact with crisp styling to fat, flaccid manga-rrific HHR. I hate it, but some Toyota fans on the message boards I post on insist its "more substantial". :rolleyes:

By February's sales totals, it looks like Scion's sales are stabilizing. The only one down is the tC, and that's the oldest one. The forthcoming Hako coupe concept they're debuting in New York might be the replacement.

My favorite Ford failure is the Probe. IMO, it was always viewed as The Mustang That Almost Was. The pretender to the throne. A slap in the face to muscle car fans everywhere. To me, like the Fiero I mentioned in the TTAC thread, it was supposed to show that modern domestic performance wasn't just about big V-8s, but 4-cylinders and handling.

(looks up and down) Waitasec. Juuuuuuust checking. Yep. I still want it soooooooo much. The 3-door looks better than the 5-door, and is the one I'd have, but I'd like the 5-door in my parking spot as well.

Snopes.com

I think it's seen as an irrelevant brand by many, a vestige of the old days when there was no competition. I think people see a Mercury that looks nearly identical to a Ford and think to themselves, "They must think I'm stupid to not know the difference." They then wonder what else they're being fooled about.

Sure Mercury isn't doing much financial damage, but they can't be helping Ford's image too much. How can you say that things are different and you're making relevant products and getting rid of overlap when you have a brand entirely composed of rebadges?

YAY! Jack Barry made it on to the thread!

Source?

I'm so glad I'm not a fortune teller for a living, or I'd be out on the streets. When it comes to predicting Ford's sales, I'm 0-for-life. First the Edge, then the Escape, and now this.

Scion's sales seem to have stabilized if February's results are to be believed. xB up big. xD picking up where the xA left off. tC still needs an update, though.

Now we know how everyone else did. Poorly. Very poorly.