TStag

I hear it's something under consideration to reduce the US deficit. Do you think it has legs? Most of the world has VAT and no sales tax. So I'm just curious as to whether or not people think Americans will accept it?

No Vince Cable is right. JLR is the only fully fledged car maker in Britain and they have had almost no state aid at all. Let all the other eat cake! Time for some of these car makers to make money.

Repeat after me. It's not how many you sell it's how much money you make. JLR were making profits late last year, so a 53% sales rise is very significant. Also do bear in mind that JLR sells in something like 160 markets. The UK is their largest market....not the US. So you may ask how are sales doing elsewhere. Well in the UK sales are also up by about the same margin. Indeed if an outsider looked at this, they might say JLR is one of the fasted growing car makers in the world. And all this when Land Rover has had no new models to sell!

JLR's sales figures are stunning relative to the rest of the market. Now the scrappage schemes are gone for the we can see which brands are really doing well without state aid. JLR have seen a sales surge since the second half of last year. This year both Jag and Land Rover are achieving sales growth of 50%. If you look at the Jaguar XJ sales it is now the market leader in the UK. Sales are 35% higher than the S Class and 70% higher than BMW's 7 Series. Most trade in's are German... Or put another way Jaguar is back to where it was in sales terms pre-Ford with the XJ. The XF and XK are also booming. In fact there is simply extremely strong growth across JLR. The fact that Range Rover think they can ask for 35,000 GBP for the small Evoque sums it up. This is a high profit margin brand. I remember reading somewhere that JLR are modelling themselves on Porsche levels of profit margin..... As a vote of confidence TATA have also said that they want to grow the number of JLR model significantly over the next 5 years. To do this they say they will invest 1 billion dollars per year. JLR looks ready now to take the fight to Germany's big 3. Realistically they are about the only brand that can do this in all markets. Lexus could possibly, except they are a flop in Europe. And as for Lincoln......

Does Ford's plan for Lincoln really inspire confidence? I mean does the following statement fill you with hope or fear? 'Ford is expanding its Lincoln lineup with seven all-new or significantly refreshed vehicles in the next four years – including its first-ever C-segment vehicle' What do 7 all new or refreshed cars translate into in reality? And will the C-Segment vehicle really only be a rebadged Focus with a bit of leather and chrome? Once Mercury does vacate all those Lincoln dealers won't many dealers be fatally weakened? I can't help but wonder if Ford is really just working it's way round to a cull of Lincoln. If Ford can get dealers to fold by themselves then presumably this will avoid Ford having to compensate as many dealers if it does kill of Lincoln. Sad to see any car brands go this way. As a Triumph fan I hope the real Mercury fans really cherish their cars now.

Lincoln's problem is that if it goes upmarket to try and take on BMW, Mercedes, Audi, JLR and co then it will need to invest big bucks on much more bespoke models. But can Ford really expect to recoup the increased spend on a brand that hasn't competed at that level for decades. To put this in perspective Ford invested 1.5 billion dollars (1 billion pounds) on the Range Rover, that's the kind of spend Lincoln might have to cover on something like the next Navigator. TATA for example have decided to spend around 8 billion dollars over the next 5 years simply adding new models and engines to JLR. That's investment in adding content and adding product (not even replacing models). Is that something that Lincoln can realistically do? JLR aren't the only example, look at BMW and it's spend on R&D. Ford already balked at the challenge of growing JLR, why would it feel more comfortable about Lincoln? Lincoln is largely only a US brand. So the alternative is to lower Lincoln's ambitions and try to spring models off Ford components. But Ford have tried that and failed. Maybe because on balance Lincoln's still seem too close to Ford. So Ford has 3 options with Lincoln: 1.) Spend billions chasing the big premium brands like BMW 2.) Spend a bit more and improve content. 3.) Focus on the Ford brand and cull Lincoln. The question Ford has to now ask is this. Is it worth spending time on Lincoln. Or would it just be easier to focus all efforts now on Ford?

Because it ended in March? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8595597.stm

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/10116740.stm

Oh dear that's a big loss to stomach. Overall it could even turn out to be a bigger loss than Ford made on JLR (even through the loss making years. Not sure about that but I'd love to see the numbers.... I think Ford disposed of it's luxury brands in totally the wrong order. If Ford had got shot of Volvo at about the same time it sold JLR then I think it would have got more money. But Volvo really took a pasting in the recession. Whilst Ford did well to get what it did for JLR. Had it hung on to them then JLR would be showing profits and good growth right now (60% YTD last month). In fact the arguement would be to hang on in there a bit longer and let profits recover to pre-recession levels and then sell.

Death it is then

Ford is turning it around. But I'm not sure the global economy is out of the woods yet. Fiat who have a popular range in Europe are struggling as the incentive schemes end: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-01-26/fiat-to-suspend-carmaking-in-february-march-as-orders-drop.html

I should hate this, but weirdly I like it. Maybe because it's a breath of fresh air. Who else would dare make this? But truth is poor people would probably like this.

Ford learn the lessons of Cadillac. They are one of the least liked brands in Britain. Not because the cars are bad but because we don't buy non European premium cars. Especially non sporty looking ones like Lincoln. So don't be stupid and rebadge the Mustang as a Lincoln. Just develop a range of Mustang styled performance cars. Give us the current model, a 5 door and an SUV. Offer V6's, V8's and 4 cylinder engines. Source diesel engines and bring the interiors up to European standards. Then hey presto instant premium sales success. Not on the scale of BMW or even SAAB, but a good start. By all means keep it American looking and muscle car like because the Mustang looks work here. It's difficult to explain but American cars generally aren't considered nice looking over here. If you say American car, people often think 'big yank tank' that looks like a yellow cab. But say Mustang and people treat it differently. Ultimately Ford should sort out the Mustang's handling for European roads too..... oooh a special Lotus Mustang would be sub zero!

Ford really shouldn't bother bringing Lincoln to Europe. It would be entirely the wrong approach for Ford as Europeans only really buy BMW's, Audi's, Merc's and JLR's.... The average European buy's European on history which is why brands like Lexus persistently fail here. If Ford want to venture upmarket in Europe it should develop 'Mustang' as a brand. Brits seem to like the concept of a muscle car and miss the Ford Capri. So Ford should develop a family of Mustang premium cars to take on BMW. That is Ford's best hope. Mercury might work if Ford simply restyled their Euro models as more premium offerings to sit somewhere between BMW and Ford. But honestly Lincoln would be the least desirable brand, short of Edsel that Ford could send to Europe. Give us the god damn Mustang though, that's the car we want from America!

Of course when sales were dropping in one of the worst recessions since the war, I'm sure JLR's sales drops were markets as the obese sister turning anorexic. JLR is simply reversing it's way back to the very strong profit it posted pre-recession!

And to think the current Range Rover is 9 years old this year: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/subaru-sa...ercent-in-2009/ Fastest growing premium car company in the USA now if TTAC has got this right...

Hang on that article say's (and I always thought) that series hybrids like the Volt return better economy than the parallel hybrid. I totally agree the Volt will be too expensive on launch though. I'm just not convinced that it won't get cheaper quickly.

Selling in how many markets? With how many bespoke models? Or are you thinking basically rebadged Ford's in the US only for as long as Ford can get away with it?

That's creative accounting. First lump Jaguar and Land Rover together, because they are British. Moving all blame for Jaguar's losses pre Land Rover to Land Rover. Because the S and X types were all the fault of the people who were coming up with the Best selling Range Rover right? Couldn't possibly be a Jag/ Ford **** up.... Then conviently ignore that Land Rover's intial and I suspect largely anticipated loses (which Ford never made Public) were partly down to investment in plant and new vehicles (assets). Then further conviently ignore the significant profits Land Rover made in it's final couple of years under Ford ownership and the fact that Land Rover effectively kept Jaguar afloat by hiding it's continued losses. Land Rover was Ford's dumping ground for Jaguar losses. IF Ford hadn't bothered buying Jaguar in the first place then Land Rover would have been considered a very good buy by Ford. Still I doubt TATA is bothered now that JLR is probably worth more than Ford run Volvo (which was worth billions more a few years back) It's all acadamic, accept for the fact that we now know Ford split up PAG in the wrong order. Should have sold Volvo first when it was worth more......

$2 billion that's badly needed but a massive loss on an sub premium car brand that's entering into an emerging nations hands. In fact I bet the overall loss is up there with Ford's overall losses on JLR. This seems a bit like handing Nuclear weapons over to the enemy. And how long will those supply contracts last? Surely Geeley would much rather begin to migrate Volvo and Geeley over to one set of common components developed in Sweden.

Back on topic why can't GM simply offer to fit a smaller batter pack and recharge the batteries more frequently off the engine. This would have a negative effect on milage but it would make the car cheaper and more competitive with Ford. Would it not? P.s Jellymoulds I've only been in one broken down car this year and it wasn't a Triumph. But it was a classic and it was on the way to an American classic car show. Care to guess which US car overheated on my friend? It's a car I actually like and it's made today. It's a muscle car with a big V8..... Yep you guessed it's a Ford Mustang!

See: http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-b...65233-25321131/ Happy days for premium car makers returning. Now let's get rid of all those dumb scrappage schemes and see how the non premium cars makers are REALLY doing against the premium car brands......

Jag's sales are down because the X type has gone along with the XJ. The new XJ doesn't come in until March 2010. Land Rover is down because of a little thing called the recession. The key point here is that JLR has returned to profit just one quarter later than Ford. It's also closing the gap on BMW who's profits actually were quite small in the last quarter (relative to their size) I could be cruel now and ask. How's Volvo doing? But I won't. To be fair I think Alan Mulally is doing pretty well at Ford right now although I think his predecessor also takes some credit. But as I've always argued the only mistake his made is that he prioritised the sale of JLR over Volvo. He should have got shot of Volvo first as JLR's losses were containable and as the recession ends they are swinging back to profit quickly.

I told you Land Rover sales were going up fast again: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/no...d-rover-profits Happy days!

Laugh all you like but he did say that 1 or 2 of the big 3 would go bust not all 3. So he was right! It's just Ford was the one that escaped. So I'm not sure why your all slapping yourselves on the back. Dude was right! Also in the UNLIKELY event we get a double dip recession then Ford could still get in trouble.....oh wait but then he'd be wrong, right?