Bob Rosadini

Isn't 650/750 on going as P708?

On that same thought, is the land value of any of these facilities such that it makes sense to close?? And any new plant on lesser cost land could be built with automation efficiencies in mind???

one was enough ?for me

Agree JP but as I have said before, 7.3 has BETTER numbers than the old 477 Super Duty...and there were plenty of those in T950 tandems in the old days. The F-600 is a nice alternative to a 350. But it is not a medium duty truck that I would want to own (or drive) if I had to pull my 410 Deere TLB behind my 6-8 yd dump truck

Yes ...Like I said..doesn't bode well ...means more of same. And with all the comments of demise of diesels in medium duty, you would think with the 7.3 they would be enhancing the 650/750 "package" but I guess that doesn't fit the "Ford Pro" definition. I've beat this dead horse before...No air brake option with 7.3 power. They are clueless IMO. There is a big class of buyers that are in class 6 and 7 who pull trailers..as in tag trailers. So they can't get a diesel..so they get a gas engine...so Ford says.."no problem, you can buy a 750 with a 7.3 and electric brakes will work just fine when you are pulling your very expensive loader-backhoe."

Good point but I don't think ICE production will be ARTIFICIALLY extended, I just think the market will extend it because that is what the market will dictate. I believe many people recognize the false economy that is being used to sell electrification. To say nothing of our tax dollars paying for it.

I've had that same thought..or question. Focusing on the 2billion for OAP, a lot of money and focusing on my favorite subject, medium duty, a bit disappointing to read "medium truck will continue". That doesn't bode well if that translates to "more of the same". Now if engineering/design is NOT in that number maybe there is hope that a future exists for the medium segment. I don't see how Ford can be a real player in commercial without paying attention to that segment. Medium is a natural progression for so many businesses. You see a start up commercial venture and they have vans, then step vans and "bigger is better" takes over and they are into24' box trucks. Amazon is a good example..at least in this area. I'm seeing more and more Hino conventionals wearing Prime colors.

Yes and what is worth noting is OAP is getting the biggest chunk 2.1 billion. Now I know a "new EV Van" will not be petty cash but hopefully there will be a few bucks for mediums. Also if you look at what the Union posted, they refer to the 2.1 B but also reference an 8B number for OAP. I have to say, talk about mixed signals when it comes to EV's. At least that is what I see. I saw something the other day that was attributed to some international think tank that basically said the stated electrification goals are in a word unattainable given the TOTAL cost that must be addressed. I'll try to find it.

OAP gets biggest investment, 2.1bil. Hopefully a good chunk of that will be on a true medium duty upgrade-class 6, 7.

ah forgot about that..before you went into the tent after a hard hit.

A given! Bad move on Bill's part.

Agree..I did not realize that was a part of the package...then again maybe mgmt thinks the union would have a mutiny if it decided to pull "survivors" out on the street. In any case, with labor cost going up so much. I would think any facility that is not at a high utilization rate will be suspect. Then add the long term..note long term...picture when EV's finally make sense and can stand on their own without subsidies. what does that mean as far as engines, transmissions etc. That is the point, if shrewd on union's part, dumb on Ford's.

with covered employees? Supervisors yes, but guys in the barganing unit?

Both TT and your comment valid. I see more and more Hino and Isuzu class 5/6 's running around. There IS a market IMO for a class 5-7 LCF. Make the unskilled "driver" more productive instead of pushing 60" of hood in front of him. I've probably commented before on this but when Ford had a 550 E series with a solid front axle a dealer friend finally got a non Ford account to try a couple..they loved them then Ford pulls the plug.

Fuzzy ..isn't that wishful thinking?? Ford can offer a package but that only gets the senior guys out. And I'm sure some of them are the sandbaggers you want to see gone, but my guess would be there are more junior guys with a "I don't give a shit" attitude who are the problem. And where will these slugs get a job with the pay and beni's Ford has. They are in fat city! Next time around Ford should push for more defined classifications that truly require skills. Fair that these guys get 40 bucks...but someone who pulls two parts out of a bin, sticks them in a valve body and pushes it down the line? 20 bucks! If you have such skill/difficulty classifications let me know

The sad fact is if what I read is correct, the vote for the top dog position for the first time was a popular vote of the total UAW membership vs I guess a vote by regional UAW brass?? That being the case the voter turnout was 11%! You can bet Fain had organized the radicals and too many reasonable guys stayed home. Sad lesson unless the idiots are challenged everyday on the line, at lunch, in the locker room, the ignorant prevail as I see it.

And I stopped my trial?

Ice, you make some good points but like I said in another post, watch what happens now to minimize that labor cost disadvantage. 10 years ago grocery store checkout people were old dudes like me, young kids or part timers earning extra money. Today a lot of the big chains are organized...and I usually go to the self check out...quick, swipe my points earning card, and I'm gone.

Detrimental in the sense with such high labor costs vs the Toyotas, Hondas, Kias etc how can you minimize that disadvantage? -Invest in more automation -increase preassembled components. - make design changes to simplify assembly process -eliminate marginal products -develop JVs such as Bluediamond etc Bottom line with no cost spread or minimal between senior guys at top rate and junior guys that much closer to the top vs old extended progression rates incentive to cut manpower is there..seniority list is a bitch!

Yah think?????? take it to the bank!

For sure..std procedure you always have proposals that are throw aways in the negotiating process. I think Fain had some that were just plain unrealistic-raw meat he was throwing out . These unattainable proposals just fuel the fire with the dummies in the bargaining unit that just make it tougher to get a majority vote from the membership. IMO, responsible union leadership doesn't let unrealistic proposals or "demands" get on the table. A guy like Fain will in the long run prove detrimental to the fate of a lot of junior members.

IMO, best settlement is one in which neither side wins. That indicates compromise was made by both. Unfortunately Fain will be pounding his chest like he really delivered on all of his unrealistic proposals. No mention will be made of lost real wages and stress he created for a lot of households. Hopefully Bill Ford will continue taking the high ground and do his best to keep Ford an American institution-something that is not in Fain's long term playbook I fear.

He is. Again,not sure on name but he hired some guy on his staff who is an absolute socialist. Shows you where Fain's head is......actually bad statement, can't be in two places at once?

Hmn..I heard a newscast this AM that said Fain on Friday said there would be no more expansion of striking facilities or words to that affect. Guess the boys at the Ram plant made a move on their own...can't be a case of Fain being misquoted?

Give me a break! The Battle of the Bridge?? How many years ago? Was Bill Ford even on this earth then? Oh you forgot about the "five dollar day"..Why don't you talk about the recent UAW leaders who are in the "can"..and if not in jail they paid how much in fines? And as to your comment that many know the history of Ford's "abusive paternalism" probably a greater percentage think Walter Reuther was a tackle for the Lions.