Analysis of various car interiors by True Delta

[Ovaltine]

From: http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=42

 

ISO the perfect door pull

 

Since I recently wrote about “The Feel of Quality, I was pleasantly surprised to see an article in BusinessWeek about GM’s drive to upgrade its interiors.

 

While I agree that the upcoming 2008 CTS has a wonderful interior in terms of both design and materials, I also sat in the 2008 Malibu at the Detroit show, and despite what the talking head from Edmunds says in the BusinessWeek article, it’s no $40,000 Lexus in there. And GM’s new crossovers were the object of my criticism in the earlier blog entry.

 

What more could be done? I suggested a number of things in the earlier entry. But what I’d most like to see are comfortably upholstered door pulls. While at the Chicago show I did a little searching for the perfect door pull. Looking at luxury sedans, I found that only the outer surface of the door pulls on the Audi S8 are upholstered. The stitched leather on the outer part of the pull is nice. The suede on the door panel is even nicer. So why the hard plastic where your fingers actually touch? The door pulls of the new CTS are similarly constructed; I think I’ve found Cadillac’s source of inspiration. Why fully upholster the instrument panel, but have the driver’s hand grip hard plastic to pull the door shut? Beats me.

 

In contrast, Infiniti wraps the door pull of the M45 completely in leather, Acura does the same with the RL, and Lexus gives you a pocket of soft padded leather to dip your hand into with the LS 460 (photo at right). Even the front side of the pocket (directly beneath the wood trim), which you’re unlikely to touch, is nicely padded and has a rich hand to it.

 

At one point I found myself inside a Mercedes-Benz S63 with a couple of competitive assessment engineers who work for a major Japanese manufacturer. I pointed out how the padding only reached part of the way down inside the door pulls of the hyper-expensive Benz. Below that your fingertips grasp hard plastic. They readily agreed that they’d like to do better in this area.

 

“Which manufacturer do you think is doing a great job with interiors?” one of the engineers asked. I thought for a moment, then came up with Kia. Yes, Kia. The Optima EX has perhaps the best-finished interior of any sedan under $25,000, and the Amanti (nicely padded door pull and interior pictured) has perhaps the best under $30,000. I figured they would respond with disdain, and not listen to anything else I said, my credibility shot.

 

To my surprise, the engineer readily agreed in my assessment of this competitor. But he felt that the big Kia’s front seats were less comfortable than the rear seats. Interestingly, I’d said the same in my review of the Amanti a few years ago. But a panel member recently traded a 2005 Amanti for the revised 2007, and had reported that the 2007’s front seats were much more comfortable. I’d confirmed this earlier at the Chicago show.

 

I passed on this information. And so the engineers for the Japanese manufacturer left Mercedes’ flagship to go check out Kia’s.

 

Everyone (with the apparent exception of Chrysler) is trying to upgrade their interiors. When a major Japanese company is willing to swallow its pride and look to Kia for inspiration, there’s a chance we’ll all have nicely padded door pulls in coming years.

 

 

So the bottom line is, just wait until the exteriors start to catch up to the interiors on the KIA lineup!

 

http://blogs.edmunds.com/?14@457.2MsiaD7LX...raightline/1307

http://www.leftlanenews.com/audi-tt-design...oes-to-kia.html

http://www.autospies.com/news/Does-Kia-Hav...he-Cee-d-12847/

 

-Ovaltine

Edited March 7, 2007 by Ovaltine

[Roadrunner]

From these pictures I just learned something: The idea of the "L" door handle that is flush with the door panel is widespread and not just a Ford thing.

 

See, I grew up with an '80s GM car and it never had that - in theory you could loop a coat hanger around the door handle and open the car up.

 

I dunno, I just find this interesting.

 

See more interiors:

http://www.ajovalo.net/Historia/Sisustus4.htm

[Roadrunner]

Everyone (with the apparent exception of Chrysler) is trying to upgrade their interiors.

 

Nice jab at Chrysler, Mr. Karesh -- because it's so true!

[Ovaltine]

What a troll.

 

Anybody that says, and agrees with, that KIA has the best interiors under $25k is as blind as Ray. Even the Honda Civic has a better interior than that, and I find the Civic horrible.

 

I guess that C&D must be trolling too, 'cause they concur with the guy from True Delta. Here's what they said in their recent mid-size sedan shoot out:

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12...-optima-ex.html

 

"Kia’s retooled Optima strives to be more Camry than a Camry. John Doe looks? Check. Joe Average performance? Check. A relentlessly detailed and fastidiously executed interior that shames pricier cars here? Watch out, Kia has caught Toyota (and others) napping.

 

The Camry interior styling and fit and finish get eights, even from the East German judge, but the Kia’s pull solid nines. There’s nothing cheap or flimsy to be seen in the Optima. Tasteful titanium-hued accent plates lock together with the rest of the interior trim with aircraft accuracy, most of the seams carefully lap-jointed to hide fissures. All drawers and hand grips slide with spring-damped motion. It’s a soft-touch, low-gloss, fine-grained home run. It’s how Toyota does it when it has its game face on."

 

 

It MUST be a conspiracy, dagnabbit!!! B)

 

2007 Optima interior

 

2007 Civic interior

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited March 7, 2007 by Ovaltine

[Roadrunner]

Civic interior looks too futuristic to me but if I was a buyer I might be wowed.

 

Isn't the Focus interior headed that direction (a massive step up on the current one)

[Ovaltine]

I can get two dogs out of three that agree that eating its own feces it tasty and nutritional, but it doesn't make it correct.

 

 

Aw, man, you oughta be writing for The Daily Show. Seriously!!!

 

THAT was funny!

 

 

-Ovaltine

[mkaresh]

Car and Driver, and True Delta (whatever that is) agreeing. Wow. What a breakthrough. :rolleyes:

 

I can get two dogs out of three that agree that eating its own feces it tasty and nutritional, but it doesn't make it correct.

 

Take it to a KIA board. They might believe you.

 

TrueDelta is my site. The main thing I'm doing with it is creating an alternative to CR's reliability info. Nearly 12,000 cars signed up to participate so far.

 

You'll also find CR agreeing with both of us on the Optima. And I'm certainly not in league with them.

 

Have you actually sat inside an Optima with the leather interior, preferably in black? Or in the Amanti?

 

As I mentioned in the piece, a competitive analysis engineer working for one of the major Japanese OEMs also agreed with my assessment of Kia. And he certainly isn't biased in their direction.

Edited March 7, 2007 by mkaresh

[MGallun]

well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. different strokes for different folks.. my fusions interior is quiet as any car on the road, zero rattles or squeaks.. it doesnt have that wrap around futuristic look, and you know what, thats what i like, i want to drive my car, not marvel at its beauty... its perfect for me

 

the kia interior looks nice, but not my thing.. the civics is horrid.

 

hyundai\kia have come a long way since i had a 92 scoupe, i give them credit, their cars are very nice and have nice features... but i would never buy one, just me.. just dont like them... have owned fords for 13years without a single breakdown at all, none never fell apart etc.. so why switch?

[Michael Reynolds]

The Optima, and moreso the Amanti, do have nicely crafted interiors. Are they the best, well no. Then again this is entirely subjective, what might work for some is an eyesore for others.

 

For example, I really like the interior of my Audi the fit and finish is there the design is very clean and attractive but the ergonomics drive me nuts. The factory nav unit that I recently installed in the Fusion is a lot more intuitive, the redundant climate control buttons are great and the gauges are simple and easy to read. On the other hand the refinement of the Fusion vs. the Audi is noticeable (as you would expect with a $20K price difference).

 

Kia/Hyundai has come a long way and to be quite honest if they made something sporting enough down the road I would consider the brand (as long as they continue along with thier pricing strategy). That said, I don't think they lead the market at anything really.

[LincolnFan]

The Kia is just a Sonata rebadge sheesh.

[DCK]

Civic interior looks too futuristic to me but if I was a buyer I might be wowed.

 

Isn't the Focus interior headed that direction (a massive step up on the current one)

Well the new focus interior is a sea of fisher price plastics. (puts on flame suit)

[DCK]

The Kia is just a Sonata rebadge sheesh.

But with completely different exterior and interior.....................funny how hyundai does it between tow cheap cars but Ford can't even do that for Lincoln never mind mercury.

Edited March 7, 2007 by DCK

[Ovaltine]

QUOTE(LincolnFan @ Mar 7 2007, 04:04 PM)

The Kia is just a Sonata rebadge sheesh.

But with completely different exterior and interior.....................funny how hyundai does it between tow cheap cars but Ford can't even do that for Lincoln never mind mercury.

 

DCK is correct..... there isn't one shared panel between the two cars. The wheel bases are different, and the KIA actually handles better using a traditional MacPherson strut suspension up front, vs. the Sonata's more expensive wish bone front suspension.

 

The newly redesigned 4 cylinder engines are shared, but the V6's are not. The Hyundai gets the better/newer V6. That's attested to by this article: Man arrested in 147 mph Loop 101 violation http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=66898

 

I personally like the Sonata's exterior with the Optima's interior.

 

 

-Ovaltine

Edited March 7, 2007 by Ovaltine

[ebritt]

Car and Driver, and True Delta (whatever that is) agreeing. Wow. What a breakthrough. :rolleyes:

 

I can get two dogs out of three that agree that eating its own feces it tasty and nutritional, but it doesn't make it correct.

 

Take it to a KIA board. They might believe you.

I test drove a Rio when they first came out.....OH...MY...GOD!!!

I swear, I beleive the seats were made from wood and rocks! The door panels had cheap, cheesey nylon glued directly to the plastic, no padding , no felt just nylon glued right to the door. Closing the door was like closing one of those yard sale cash boxes.

 

Awful.

 

They have come a long way in the past 8 to 10 years and Japan is starting to see them as a threat.

[mkaresh]

If the engine was so superior, how did he get caught?

 

He couldn't outrun the camera. It was a rental to boot.

 

With the Kia interiors, my critique entirely concerns fit and finish, not ergonomics or functionality. The difference in precision of assembly between the Optima and an Aura or even the new Camry is pretty scary. The Fusion doesn't do badly on fits, it's just the Ford has been on a hyper-functional bent with its interiors lately.

 

The Optima is actually based on the Elantra/Spectra platform, so it doesn't even share a platform with the Sonata anymore. This is different from the last generation, then the two cars shared a great deal.

[swenson88]

It's funny how much we argue about how nice interiors are and whatnot, but realistically after you buy a car when do you even think about it unless something is glaringly wrong? I was thinking about it today in my 2001 Cherokee and so I reached out and touched a lot of the surfaces, mostly hard plastic. Doesn't bother me in the least. I've been in Beemers, MB's, Lexuses, etc and yes, they're nicer. But, my Jeep is fine. I don't touch my dash or IP on any sort of regular basis. The only things I touch on a regular basis are the shifter, radio controls and the HVAC controls. Everything else could be made of cold, hard steel and I wouldn't care. Myself I'm more of an exterior man - as long as the car looks good from the outside I'm sold. I'd never drive a car that had crappy exterior styling just because it had a nice interior.

[waymondospiff]

It's funny how much we argue about how nice interiors are and whatnot, but realistically after you buy a car when do you even think about it unless something is glaringly wrong?

Different strokes for different folks, eh? I am often touching and thinking about the interior of my car while I'm in it. Details such as the Mazda6's weird squishy-rubber trim piece on the passenger dash front fascinate me. I love looking at the shape and fit of interior pieces - you can tell a lot about the details sweated by designers when looking at panel fits & cuts.

 

I will agree with mkaresh's idea about Kia. Hyundai & Kia have been vastly improving all aspects of their designs. They haven't had one single "complete package" yet, but there getting close and getting good.

 

But one thing I would say in disagreement with the entire premise is the "benefit" of soft-touch door pulls. I prefer a hard (firm, if you will) surface to touch/feel/grip when operating a control/function, such as opening & closing a door. If precisely built without flex in the panel, you get a more positive action = reaction link when pushing/pulling against a firm surface.

 

Scott

[mkaresh]

You're ruining my sarcastic fun with Ovaltine.

 

Sorry about that. While we're pretty well off topic anyway, I'd like to say that BSG rocks. But if they off Baltar...

[mkaresh]

But one thing I would say in disagreement with the entire premise is the "benefit" of soft-touch door pulls. I prefer a hard (firm, if you will) surface to touch/feel/grip when operating a control/function, such as opening & closing a door. If precisely built without flex in the panel, you get a more positive action = reaction link when pushing/pulling against a firm surface.

 

Scott

 

I know where you're coming from. But there's a difference between firm and hard. I'm all for firm, not for hard. For firm but not hard, check out the door pulls covered in stitched leather in the Acura RL. Totally boring exterior on that car, but the interior is amazing, probably the best in a car under $50,000. If you haven't sat in one before, drop by an Acura dealer and do it. If you are fascinated by meticulously detailed interiors, there's none better.

 

On the previous comment:

 

GM lately has a thing for soft-touch IPs and hard door panels. For the reasons you mention, this is the opposite of what makes sense. If you're going to make something soft-touch, make it the things people most often touch. In my cheap Mazda, the dash is hard but the door panels and lightly padded.

 

One thing I've disliked in both the new Camry and the Fusion is the hard plastic center console. You touch it all the time, and in both cars it feels a bit cheap.

[Michael Reynolds]

But with completely different exterior and interior.....................funny how hyundai does it between tow cheap cars but Ford can't even do that for Lincoln never mind mercury.

 

You do know that the Optima and Sonata aren't on the same platform anymore? Right?

 

Also at the 50K price point I can think of several cars with a better interior than an RL. Namely the A6 or Lexus GS350.