unionj Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 It amazes me how in one breath someone says the employer needs to police it's employees and in another breath says they do not want big brother breathing down their neck bird dogging them. Anyone who has anything other than negative comments about these employees alone and the behavior shown is an idiot. Next time you pay some kid to mow your grass and he takes a 2 hour break ensure you pay him for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 It is up to the employer to police its employees. If they do not know or care what is going on, that is their business. People should have the right to be free from harassment by stalking media slimeballs. Ford is a private company, not the government. Why don't they take their cameras into the plants and show the public how auto workers really work? Sometimes a few workers get assignments which could involve some travel and socializing. More cost saving ideas are hatched in a quiet friendly environment over a beer than in a noisy factory. If you can come up with a way to save Ford a nickel a car, that is the same as giving back all of your pay. Maybe a line stops, and some workers could be idled for a few hours. So what? I have worked in other industries. I could tell some stories but I am not a lily-livered rat-fink. I hope that those media slime don't venture into any dark alleys. If you ever give them a story, don't expect them to protect the source. They would rat you out. I'm setting here reading your response and can't believe what you're saying...you are actually defending these guys right to do this??? typical response....90% of the people do most of the work....the other 10% are slackers like this and you can be assured that our union will come to their defense, get them into some rehab program....do you honestly think that this would be tolerated in any other industry??? get a clue..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebritt Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 It is up to the employer to police its employees. If they do not know or care what is going on, that is their business. People should have the right to be free from harassment by stalking media slimeballs. Ford is a private company, not the government. Why don't they take their cameras into the plants and show the public how auto workers really work? Sometimes a few workers get assignments which could involve some travel and socializing. More cost saving ideas are hatched in a quiet friendly environment over a beer than in a noisy factory. If you can come up with a way to save Ford a nickel a car, that is the same as giving back all of your pay. Maybe a line stops, and some workers could be idled for a few hours. So what? I have worked in other industries. I could tell some stories but I am not a lily-livered rat-fink. I hope that those media slime don't venture into any dark alleys. If you ever give them a story, don't expect them to protect the source. They would rat you out. If it keeps up, (it will,always has) there wont be a business anymore. They arent just screwing the company they are screwing you. BTW they arent the government but they are asking the government to clean up their mess. Maybe they should clean house themselves and they wont need a bailout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If it keeps up, (it will,always has) there wont be a business anymore. They arent just screwing the company they are screwing you. BTW they arent the government but they are asking the government to clean up their mess. Maybe they should clean house themselves and they wont need a bailout. I just do not like this new "whistleblower" culture. I wasn't raised that way. Squealing on my brother always landed me more punishment than he got for whatever I squealed on him for doing. What goes around comes around, and the stool pigeon always gets what is coming to him. I do not fault Ford, but somehow this ratting business leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livonia1 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Boy, I sure hope they don't watch the gates at Livonia Trans. There is a lot more then a had full of people taking more then their 30Min. lunch. If we we're asked to stay on the job. Eveyone cries and slows down on the job. I don't believe anyone in the plant thinks they should do a full days work. It's unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 It amazes me how in one breath someone says the employer needs to police it's employees and in another breath says they do not want big brother breathing down their neck bird dogging them. Anyone who has anything other than negative comments about these employees alone and the behavior shown is an idiot.Next time you pay some kid to mow your grass and he takes a 2 hour break ensure you pay him for it! Are you so closed-minded that you cannot recognize sarcasm when you read it. As for those employees, I admit that it looks bad, but I do not even know them. People have many sides. I am not going to judge them based on some biased news reporters' witch hunt and inquisition. They knew what the story was before they started. It was a set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) If it keeps up, (it will,always has) there wont be a business anymore. They arent just screwing the company they are screwing you. BTW they arent the government but they are asking the government to clean up their mess. Maybe they should clean house themselves and they wont need a bailout. I have been around Ford a long time. I know the score. Ford workers are the best. Why look at them in the worst possible light? Can you come and go as you please at Ford? No. You are like the guy who just got thrown into prison. You have to take the big one you know where for the next 20 years or so. After a while, it gets better. You get more freedom. You become like a trustee. Maybe you are ripe with ideas. Maybe a blind eye is turned to your shennanigans as long as they know that they can turn to you when they have a serious problem that requires your expertise. I am, of course talking lower management here. A good supervisor knows his people, and is trusted to use his own judgement to run his zone. Sometimes unorthodox methods work. Otherwise, he gets fired. The guy sitting in the bar when he is supposed to be on his job, and his supervisor knows, must be a very special individual. He must be a guru. That is the recognition of hourly genius. Upper management looks at the bottom line. Outsider interference just screws everything up. FORD IS NOT STUPID. That is the axiom that I live by. Try it; and do not be so quick to judge based on the actions of some low-life, slime-ball, stalking, bottom-feeding, pot-stirring news reporter. If the accused parties were union or related to brass, no punishment would have been inflicted. Therefore, I assume that they were geniuses who had a bit too much trust. Ford is a BIG company. A 30+ year man with above average intelligence has ideas which could save the company millions. It is just peanuts; and so is a few people going out for a beer. After all that time on the line, they probably earned it. If they ever were to put forth some of their ideas, maybe your job would disappear. Long time Ford employees are not just a bunch of labouring slouths. We have a lot of experience and intelligence. Unfortunately, the way that the system is set up, it is only beneficial for us to use our intelligence for our own personal benefit. The corporate gods run things. I trust that they are running them properly, as I have no control. I believe that they are. They also mostly control the media. I doubt that they ordered this story. If they did then I believe that they made a mistake. I believe that Ford will make out ok. To me it is like the particle/wave theory, uncertainty principal. Ford is the wave. Bullshit imports try to break it down. The wave will prevail. Toyota, go to an alternate universe. Science says that there are eleven dimensions; six Calabai-Yau plus one time, plus another four (three plus one) of the "macro" world. I am not so arrogant. Our universe is not special, so I say that there are only seven dimensions. All photons and electrons, travelling at the speed of light are universes. Gravity is something which will occupy much of my future thought. I hope that I do not do it in a bar on Ford's dime with some moron with a camera nearby. Just kidding. I am just starting to wrap my brain around gravity, but putting it into words is still far off. I love this shit. Think of our universe containing four dimensions; three spacial, and one time. Time is virtually zero. Suppose you travel in a very fast vehicle. Then time comes into play. If you travel fast enough that the spacial dimensions equal the time dimension, then your universe collapses to the Planck length. That is what we were before the big bang. The big bang is something that only we experienced. Beings on other universes experienced nothing. A thimble contains 10 to the 100th power universes. Edited April 1, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Think of our universe containing four dimensions; three spacial, and one time. Time is virtually zero. Suppose you travel in a very fast vehicle. Then time comes into play. If you travel fast enough that the spacial dimensions equal the time dimension, then your universe collapses to the Planck length. That is what we were before the big bang. The big bang is something that only we experienced. Beings on other universes experienced nothing. A thimble contains 10 to the 100th power universes. :stats: Theory vs Market realities and Cultures: Market Ford looks like a Black Hole and Toyota looks like the Eagle Nebula. Cultures Japanese workers would expect those who steal from the company or fail, to commit Hara-kiri (Har-rah-kee-ree is the common language term.) American workers wish it was them that could screw the company. As such, we look away. Life and work is about Integrity and Honor. Companies that hire workers with integrity and honor will succeed, those who don't will fail. At work, are we a shining light or a black hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) :stats: Theory vs Market realities and Cultures: Market Ford looks like a Black Hole and Toyota looks like the Eagle Nebula. Cultures Japanese workers would expect those who steal from the company or fail, to commit Hara-kiri (Har-rah-kee-ree is the common language term.) American workers wish it was them that could screw the company. As such, we look away. Life and work is about Integrity and Honor. Companies that hire workers with integrity and honor will succeed, those who don't will fail. At work, are we a shining light or a black hole? All is not as it appears to the untrained eye. I say that Ford knows what it is doing, and has known all along. I will say no more. Observing the wave breaks it down to the particle, and I could find myself in a universe where Ford and I are separate. Don't revere your enemies too much. They are relatively new at this game. Maybe they are pawns unknowingly acting out a play. Robots can't see the big picture. (This is a Ford Employee forum, so I am assuming that you belong here.) Edited April 1, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxes12 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I have been around Ford a long time. I know the score. Ford workers are the best. Why look at them in the worst possible light? Can you come and go as you please at Ford? No. You are like the guy who just got thrown into prison. You have to take the big one you know where for the next 20 years or so. After a while, it gets better. You get more freedom. You become like a trustee. Maybe you are ripe with ideas. Maybe a blind eye is turned to your shennanigans as long as they know that they can turn to you when they have a serious problem that requires your expertise. I am, of course talking lower management here. A good supervisor knows his people, and is trusted to use his own judgement to run his zone. Sometimes unorthodox methods work. Otherwise, he gets fired. The guy sitting in the bar when he is supposed to be on his job, and his supervisor knows, must be a very special individual. He must be a guru. That is the recognition of hourly genius. Upper management looks at the bottom line. Outsider interference just screws everything up. FORD IS NOT STUPID. That is the axiom that I live by. Try it; and do not be so quick to judge based on the actions of some low-life, slime-ball, stalking, bottom-feeding, pot-stirring news reporter. If the accused parties were union or related to brass, no punishment would have been inflicted. Therefore, I assume that they were geniuses who had a bit too much trust. Ford is a BIG company. A 30+ year man with above average intelligence has ideas which could save the company millions. It is just peanuts; and so is a few people going out for a beer. After all that time on the line, they probably earned it. If they ever were to put forth some of their ideas, maybe your job would disappear. Long time Ford employees are not just a bunch of labouring slouths. We have a lot of experience and intelligence. Unfortunately, the way that the system is set up, it is only beneficial for us to use our intelligence for our own personal benefit. The corporate gods run things. I trust that they are running them properly, as I have no control. I believe that they are. They also mostly control the media. I doubt that they ordered this story. If they did then I believe that they made a mistake. I believe that Ford will make out ok. To me it is like the particle/wave theory, uncertainty principal. Ford is the wave. Bullshit imports try to break it down. The wave will prevail. Toyota, go to an alternate universe. Science says that there are eleven dimensions; six Calabai-Yau plus one time, plus another four (three plus one) of the "macro" world. I am not so arrogant. Our universe is not special, so I say that there are only seven dimensions. All photons and electrons, travelling at the speed of light are universes. Gravity is something which will occupy much of my future thought. I hope that I do not do it in a bar on Ford's dime with some moron with a camera nearby. Just kidding. I am just starting to wrap my brain around gravity, but putting it into words is still far off. I love this shit. Think of our universe containing four dimensions; three spacial, and one time. Time is virtually zero. Suppose you travel in a very fast vehicle. Then time comes into play. If you travel fast enough that the spacial dimensions equal the time dimension, then your universe collapses to the Planck length. That is what we were before the big bang. The big bang is something that only we experienced. Beings on other universes experienced nothing. A thimble contains 10 to the 100th power universes. Have you been drinking? I used to come up with some pretty wild theories when I was using! I would like to hear what the Sterling employees have to say about these individuals that were busted. I agree with your premise that the news was biased sensationalism, meant to boost ratings and disparage Ford. But the purpose it served was to wake us up and realize that all employees represent Ford and create negative publicity when sitting in bars bragging about being on the clock! I am not spouting nonsense, I'm speaking from personal experience as one who was guilty of participating in extended lunch hours. I justified my actions by saying Ford owes me, since I'm an asset and this was a perq of my status at Ford. I was just lucky to not be busted, but I was encouraged to change my ways. It's great to work for a company and union that will give people a chance to change and I agree that this should be handled internally, but it's not something that we can wear blinders and ignore. The perception that the public has about us (don't buy a car built on Monday's or Friday's i.e.) is hard to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If you look at the original thread, I said the same thing. I'm agreeing with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-150 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 SAFETY!!!!! You can't work safe if your drunk!!! not to mention these guys are nailed with drinking and driving on film. the police have a strong case to chase them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 (edited) not to mention these guys are nailed with drinking and driving on film. the police have a strong case to chase them down. Why not go all the way? A shark smells blood and it is meal time. Nailing people is the police's profession. Everyone who one time breaks some rule does not deserve to get "nailed". A person with nothing better to do than to inform on his fellow human beings is probably lower on the moral totem pole than the people he is ratting out. It takes a certain type of unfulfilled low-life to have a need to destroy other peoples' lives. He probably does it anonomously. If he had any balls, he would probably be a serial killer. If you know anyone who is a pimp for the cops, don't ever turn your back on him. Your pain is his/her pleasure. They are sick. If I were to go to an after hours bar, for example, and witness a hit; I didn't see anything. What is going down is none of my business. Maybe the person had it coming; maybe not. If I am not involved, that is the way that I want it to stay. That doesn't mean that I would not step up to try and prevent an obvious injustice. Edited April 1, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktpworker69 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 These are the type of union members that the UAW protects. No wonder Ford plants are shutting down No wonder Toyota workers do not want the UAW in there plants. The actions of these "good & loyal" Ford - UAW members are the cause of plants shutting down. you stupid fuck, you think that dont happen at toyota. how about sitting at a bar around UPS or any other large employer of factory work and watching other people. the cause of plants shutting down, has NOTHING to do with guys that go to the bar and drink. for all you know, they are waiting on stock to come in that these dumbass bosses dont order? you ever think of that? until you know the whole story, shut your pie hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkBuilt Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 not to mention these guys are nailed with drinking and driving on film. the police have a strong case to chase them down. Bullshit. Then cops could just sit and videotape outside of bars and bust a hundred people every night. Tow trucks could just empty the parking lots outside every bar/club/restaurant. I don't think it works that way man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Why not go all the way? A shark smells blood and it is meal time. Nailing people is the police's profession. Everyone who one time breaks some rule does not deserve to get "nailed". A person with nothing better to do than to inform on his fellow human beings is probably lower on the moral totem pole than the people he is ratting out. It takes a certain type of unfulfilled low-life to have a need to destroy other peoples' lives. He probably does it anonomously. If he had any balls, he would probably be a serial killer. If you know anyone who is a pimp for the cops, don't ever turn your back on him. Your pain is his/her pleasure. They are sick. If I were to go to an after hours bar, for example, and witness a hit; I didn't see anything. What is going down is none of my business. Maybe the person had it coming; maybe not. If I am not involved, that is the way that I want it to stay. That doesn't mean that I would not step up to try and prevent an obvious injustice. So you'd rather not 'rat' as you call it and let some low-life get in his car drunk, run a stop sign and t-bone a family and kill several...that makes you feel better I suppose...a story in the local paper today...2 young girls 17 going to a friends house, stopped a light, with their seat belts on and a drunk ran into the back of them and killed both....he had minor injuries...tell your theory to their parent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uRfk9AcDfo9Wui Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Why not go all the way? A shark smells blood and it is meal time. Nailing people is the police's profession. Everyone who one time breaks some rule does not deserve to get "nailed". A person with nothing better to do than to inform on his fellow human beings is probably lower on the moral totem pole than the people he is ratting out. It takes a certain type of unfulfilled low-life to have a need to destroy other peoples' lives. He probably does it anonomously. If he had any balls, he would probably be a serial killer. If you know anyone who is a pimp for the cops, don't ever turn your back on him. Your pain is his/her pleasure. They are sick. If I were to go to an after hours bar, for example, and witness a hit; I didn't see anything. What is going down is none of my business. Maybe the person had it coming; maybe not. If I am not involved, that is the way that I want it to stay. That doesn't mean that I would not step up to try and prevent an obvious injustice. Tell you what why don't you go start a company and hire all these rejects and drunks, sounds like to me you will get along with them great. You can sit around on each break and drink beer, smoke dope, and lick acid and have a hell of a time. Maybe out of an 8 hour day you'll get 30 minutes worth of work done. Maybe you can make time machines with the Doc and Marty and travel back and forth in time and maybe stop by the twilight zone every once in a while, and experiment with drugs of the past and future and see which ones trip you out the most. I'm sure your company will be a Fortune 500 in only a few years with all that quality help you'll have. Go for it!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uRfk9AcDfo9Wui Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 So you'd rather not 'rat' as you call it and let some low-life get in his car drunk, run a stop sign and t-bone a family and kill several...that makes you feel better I suppose...a story in the local paper today...2 young girls 17 going to a friends house, stopped a light, with their seat belts on and a drunk ran into the back of them and killed both....he had minor injuries...tell your theory to their parent! And take it one more step. What if they were, this bozo (Trimdingman), daughters that got killed... Wonder if he would just blow it off if this was the person's first offence and say "Everyone who one time breaks some rule does not deserve to get "nailed"." He was just having a bad day no harm no foul. I'll just go make a couple more daughters next week. Poor guy the more he types the more he makes himself look like a total dumbass.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Tell you what why don't you go start a company and hire all these rejects and drunks, sounds like to me you will get along with them great. You can sit around on each break and drink beer, smoke dope, and lick acid and have a hell of a time. Maybe out of an 8 hour day you'll get 30 minutes worth of work done. Maybe you can make time machines with the Doc and Marty and travel back and forth in time and maybe stop by the twilight zone every once in a while, and experiment with drugs of the past and future and see which ones trip you out the most. I'm sure your company will be a Fortune 500 in only a few years with all that quality help you'll have. Go for it!!! Agree!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) So you'd rather not 'rat' as you call it and let some low-life get in his car drunk, run a stop sign and t-bone a family and kill several...that makes you feel better I suppose...a story in the local paper today...2 young girls 17 going to a friends house, stopped a light, with their seat belts on and a drunk ran into the back of them and killed both....he had minor injuries...tell your theory to their parent! After he commits the crime, I have no problem with giving him the death penalty. All the rest is speculation. People need to have a little freedom, or we will have Orwell's 1984. Every time something bad happens a law is passed. Soon, everyone will be breaking the law just by breathing, and will be subject to arrest at any time. It is time to start getting rid of some laws. What if the driver is just slightly over the limit and is driving just fine. What happens to his family when he loses his job? How many innocent people are run down or killed in crashes during police chases? How many accidents are caused by inattentiveness while driving because the driver is watching for police? Edited April 2, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) Tell you what why don't you go start a company and hire all these rejects and drunks, sounds like to me you will get along with them great. You can sit around on each break and drink beer, smoke dope, and lick acid and have a hell of a time. Maybe out of an 8 hour day you'll get 30 minutes worth of work done. Maybe you can make time machines with the Doc and Marty and travel back and forth in time and maybe stop by the twilight zone every once in a while, and experiment with drugs of the past and future and see which ones trip you out the most. I'm sure your company will be a Fortune 500 in only a few years with all that quality help you'll have. Go for it!!! You are making a lot of assumptions about people that you do not even know. Maybe that person's father works for Ford, and he is just wearing a Ford hat that was given to him. Maybe that other person is taking a vacation day, or a 3.9. You would fit right in back in the seventeenth century, at the witch trials. I am not promoting anything, I am just saying that there are two sides. Maybe someone who is like a wrecking crew is better off not being in the plant, even if he is being paid. Some times, in some places, managers are promoted just to get them out of the way. Edited April 2, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 You are making a lot of assumptions about people that you do not even know. Maybe that person's father works for Ford, and he is just wearing a Ford hat that was given to him. Maybe that other person is taking a vacation day, or a 3.9. You would fit right in back in the seventeenth century, at the witch trials. I am not promoting anything, I am just saying that there are two sides. Maybe someone who is like a wrecking crew is better off not being in the plant, even if he is being paid. Some times, in some places, managers are promoted just to get them out of the way. And maybe he was on his way to see the Easter Bunny to get baskets for uderprivilaged children.....or maybe he was really Superman and he flew over to the bar and was about to get back to work in time...no..no wait...I know.... maybe...he was Batman and he was in the bar trying to do an intervention for Robin...you need to get a clue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 (edited) And maybe he was on his way to see the Easter Bunny to get baskets for uderprivilaged children.....or maybe he was really Superman and he flew over to the bar and was about to get back to work in time...no..no wait...I know.... maybe...he was Batman and he was in the bar trying to do an intervention for Robin...you need to get a clue! What if there were a bunch of executives in suits knocking back martinis at an uptown club? Business meeting? I see a little predjudice here. Edited April 2, 2007 by Trimdingman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 What if there were a bunch of executives in suits knocking back martinis at an uptown club? Business meeting? I see a little predjudice here. not following your question here, but let me say this..if someone sits in a bar and drives drunk and hits a kills an innocent person or persons...they are still just as dead if the person is an executive wear a suit or some poor guy driving a POS...they are both wrong and should be dealt with equally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettech Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 What if there were a bunch of executives in suits knocking back martinis at an uptown club? Business meeting? I see a little predjudice here. ?????????????? Back to the original topic: Employees at a Ford plant was filmed taking extremely long breaks and was drinking alcohol when they should have been at work instead. The slackers should have been fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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