theoldwizard Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 dammit...first hand is always easier....hopefully they will all see fruition and not be quashed by corporate BS and penny pinching...and good luck for the future... What limited amount I am telling you was first hand and was accurate at one time ! I need to stop by POEE (EEE for all you old timers) at least one more time before they close the doors on it for good ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 mullaley has given the Axe to a few already....and I think some of the secret handshake, boys clubs guys/ gals took their severence when they saw a red dot aimed at their foreheads or realized they were constantly looking over their shoulders....... Mullaly is being "handled" (...as was Billy. It was easier with Billy, he thought everyone always told him the truth !) The "good old boys (and girls)" have circled the wagons and are spend extra time "getting their stories straight" so they both give the same answer to upper management (who, in some cases, is so clueless they don't even know what questions to ask, "Is it on time and on budget ?" Important question but easy to bluff.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I have been accused of that by many management types. Must be why my career advancement ended over 10 years ago. Part of my signature at work was "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard ShaW Now I see why you railed against Ford, didn't old Henry Ford say: "Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal." So what you're saying is that there are big holes in strategies to deliver some of the 09/10 products to market? When do you perceive the wheels start falling off, the panic commencing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 regardless of in-fighting, internal bickering and friction....I just hope some of these groundbreaking technologies make fruition...from what I am seeing recently certain boundaries are being pushed more than I can ever remember...which lends itself to a bright future, I can honestly say that it seems Ford has realized to be successful one has to act rather than re-act ...be a leader don't constantly be lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 When do you perceive the wheels start falling off, the panic commencing? Late this year or early 2008. What scares me is, by then, I don't know if they will have be able to fix it. Very few people know that the Electronic Throttle Control system on the current F150 was a major "crap shoot". There was a "back room" meeting at one of the "water holes" in Dearborn about 6 months before job 1. That's when they found out it "had to work" because there was no fall back ! Thank God (and a very few dedicated, hardworking engineers (not me)) it did work ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I just hope some of these groundbreaking technologies make fruition... Who says they are groundbreaking ? These technologies are only "new" to Ford Motor Company ! Ford was truly a pioneer in the early days of EFI, but that was a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) Late this year or early 2008. What scares me is, by then, I don't know if they will have be able to fix it. Very few people know that the Electronic Throttle Control system on the current F150 was a major "crap shoot". There was a "back room" meeting at one of the "water holes" in Dearborn about 6 months before job 1. That's when they found out it "had to work" because there was no fall back ! Thank God (and a very few dedicated, hardworking engineers (not me)) it did work ! Some crap shoot, the Aussie BA Falcon had the 5.4 3V for 12 months before the F150 got it , worked fine from get go. The Inline 6 also has ETS and FoA had been testing both since early 2000. Edited April 27, 2007 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) The 1.6 Rocam engine is quite old and already feels heavily stressed with the weight of the current/outgoing Fiesta in Mexico. It is somewhat noisy even at low revs, definitely one of the less refined engines in the segment. This is bad news if true. Ford needs their b car to be among the best when it comes to performance and fuel economy, like the Yaris sedan. Ideally, Ford's b-car should be something that's roughly between the Yaris and the Versa in terms of economy, price, and packaging. Edited April 27, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 The 1.6 Rocam engine is quite old and already feels heavily stressed with the weight of the current/outgoing Fiesta in Mexico. It is somewhat noisy even at low revs, definitely one of the less refined engines in the segment. This is bad news if true. I agree with everyone ! Remember, my data is now 3-4 months old ! I hope I am wrong ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) The 1.6 Rocam engine is quite old and already feels heavily stressed with the weight of the current/outgoing Fiesta in Mexico. It is somewhat noisy even at low revs, definitely one of the less refined engines in the segment. This is bad news if true. Ford needs their b car to be among the best when it comes to performance and fuel economy, like the Yaris sedan. Ideally, Ford's b-car should be something that's roughly between the Yaris and the Versa in terms of economy, price, and packaging. agreed .. the big news is FlexiFuel capability and the fact that the new Fiesta is to be lighter than the old one. I hope Wizard is wrong or they do something ...ehm surprising .. however, at this point I am worried. I have 3 other people checking updated info on this ... 2 sources through Ford OE and one through Ford NA .. hope I get some answers. PS: Pcsario, which version of the ROCAM did you drive .. it seems they have a 110hp/103ft/lbs version which seems powerful enough compared to the DOHC Zetec .. I am just wondering ... At this point, I am disappointed, because going off of SportKa's UK mileage, this engine will be nowhere near the FE of the competitors. Igor Edited April 27, 2007 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcsario Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) It's the same SOHC Rocam FOB has been using for ages (Ka, Ikon, etc.) And yes, it's apparently the same engine as the one in the SportKa, which is why they never made one there, would've been pointless. Official ratings are deceiving. The Yaris sedan delivers ~115HP at the dyno. The Fiesta sedan ~101HP. There's a night and day difference in their performance and perceived engineering. Edited April 27, 2007 by pcsario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 The RoCam from what I read seems to be a cheapened up version that sacrificed sophitication for a lower price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 It's the same SOHC Rocam FOB has been using for ages (Ka, Ikon, etc.) And yes, it's apparently the same engine as the one in the SportKa, which is why they never made one there, would've been pointless. Official ratings are deceiving. The Yaris sedan delivers ~115HP at the dyno. The Fiesta sedan ~101HP. There's a night and day difference in their performance and perceived engineering. makes sense .. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 why wouldn't they just shoehorn in a small Mazda 4 banger aka Festiva? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 (edited) why wouldn't they just shoehorn in a small Mazda 4 banger aka Festiva? no idea .. as I said the Rocam is flexfuel capable what will give the car an interesting feature. I have been advocating for the Mazda MZR 1.5l engine - it is the most efficient of the small Ford bunch .. the Rocam is definitely way cheaper than either the DOHC Sigma Zetec or the DOHC Duratec (MZR) - so that would let them be more flexible with options, materials and pricing .. however I am not sure it is worth the lost refinement and fuel economy. PS: I am trying to confirm the Rocam .. I will update people once I have any information. Igor Edited April 27, 2007 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 no idea .. as I said the Rocam is flexfuel capable what will give the car an interesting feature. I have been advocating for the Mazda MZR 1.5l engine - it is the most efficient of the small Ford bunch .. the Rocam is definitely way cheaper than either the DOHC Sigma Zetec or the DOHC Duratec (MZR) - so that would let them be more flexible with options, materials and pricing .. however I am not sure it is worth the lost refinement and fuel economy. PS: I am trying to confirm the Rocam .. I will update people once I have any information. Igor flex fuel...NOT avail in California........and i'm not sure how popular it is in other states... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 flex fuel...NOT avail in California........and i'm not sure how popular it is in other states... it is pretty much a marketing scam :D .. but it works .. just like Hybrids .. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 it is pretty much a marketing scam :D .. but it works .. just like Hybrids .. Igor is it cheaper? I heard it basically costs the same... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 is it cheaper? I heard it basically costs the same... it costs the same, but 85% of it is domestically grown and renewable... it resonates well with the patriotic-minded Americans ... especially in the red states, where the ethanol Boom is actually brining in agricultural jobs ... and of course because the ethanol source is renewable, the car is also more ecological. From Ford's perspective --- this is interesting actually -IIRC --- CAFE only counts the GASOLINE consumption .. not the ETHANOL consumption making all E85 vehicles VERY VERY good for automakers' CAFE standing. (30mpg car will be counted as a 200mpg!!!! vehicle) .. yup I love the federal regs .. especially CAFE. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 it costs the same, but 85% of it is domestically grown and renewable... it resonates well with the patriotic-minded Americans ... especially in the red states, where the ethanol Boom is actually brining in agricultural jobs ... and of course because the ethanol source is renewable, the car is also more ecological. From Ford's perspective --- this is interesting actually -IIRC --- CAFE only counts the GASOLINE consumption .. not the ETHANOL consumption making all E85 vehicles VERY VERY good for automakers' CAFE standing. (30mpg car will be counted as a 200mpg!!!! vehicle) .. yup I love the federal regs .. especially CAFE. Igor can't even order E85 engines here....but in reality if its the same price doesn't make that much sense except to the greenies, now if it was 50 cents a gallon cheaper people would snap it up AND aleviate our so called dependence on foreign oil....hmmm, wonder why the Govt isn't promoting/ subsidizing THAT...more conspiracy theories.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I thought Cali was trying to be a green state? How come they don't even sell Ethanol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I thought Cali was trying to be a green state? How come they don't even sell Ethanol. beyond me.....California is in it's own bubble sometimes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenCaylor Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Actually, California has one (and only one) E85 pump in San Diego. One reason we don't have E85 is that we don't grow much corn. Also, our fuel composition is different from the rest of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 Actually, California has one (and only one) E85 pump in San Diego. One reason we don't have E85 is that we don't grow much corn. Also, our fuel composition is different from the rest of the country. What is funny is I had a guy curious about a couple of E85 F-150's, so i attempted to spec them out...guess what popped up on the screen...the flex 5.4 is N/A in Cal...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted April 27, 2007 Share Posted April 27, 2007 I thought Cali was trying to be a green state? How come they don't even sell Ethanol. First, 100% ethanol is almost impossible to make. It is very difficult to get the last 5-10% of the water out of it, and if you did, it would just absorb it out of the atmosphere ! Second, it is very difficult/impossible to start an engine on 90% ethanol when the temperature is below about 50F. That is why in Brazil, where they do use 90% ethanol they actually have a small tank of gasoline to start the engine on cool mornings. As for no E85 in California, I can only speculate. Ethanol must be transported to the refinery/tank farm via truck because you can't run it through normal petroleum pipelines. This means that the distillery must be relatively close to the refinery/tank farm. Maybe there are no distilleries in California ? Or maybe California is more "green" then we all think ! It seems that E85 emits other pollutants that are not regulated !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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