National Healthcare.

[Furious1Auto]

In Canada, one half of our income tax goes to pay for health care. There is no limit to how much you pay. Ford workers in the US would be foolish to give up company paid health care in exchange for a huge boost in income tax. Our cost advantage is quickly evaporating as our dollar rises. It is now at over .95 US. I make over $34.00 an hour including cola. Do the math.

So, your saying that you net roughly $17.00 an hour Canadian?

[Trimdingman]

So, your saying that you net roughly $17.00 an hour Canadian?

 

 

I didn't say that I pay income tax at a 50% rate. I said that 50% of the tax that I pay goes to pay for health care. Income tax is divided into brackets. The amount that you earn above each threshold is taxed at a higher rate. Because our health care is paid for out of income tax, higher wage earners, for example, Ford workers, pay significantly more income tax here than in the US. People who earn below the minimum tax threshold pay nothing, but recieve the same health care as the people who pay millions a year in taxes. Most millionaires leave the country if they need serious surgery.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Trimdingman

[Furious1Auto]

I didn't say that I pay income tax at a 50% rate. I said that 50% of the tax that I pay goes to pay for health care. Income tax is divided into brackets. The amount that you earn above each threshold is taxed at a higher rate. Because our health care is paid for out of income tax, higher wage earners, for example, Ford workers, pay significantly more income tax here than in the US. People who earn below the minimum tax threshold pay nothing, but recieve the same health care as the people who pay millions a year in taxes. Most millionaires leave the country if they need serious surgery.

Well what is your highest tax bracket, ours is 38% for income tax? If I was still paying the same in tax that I am now, why would I care which % of what I'm paying goes where. Your current pay scale is $7.00 a hour more than ours and every time a contract comes up we'll be trying to overcome the same medical care obstacles! My whole argument for national health care is trying to control health care cost inflation! I know there are potential down sides to universal health care but we have to do something. I think that the government would be able to control and reduce these costs greatly, our current system is going to either leave nearly everyone without health care or living off of the system. We talking about sick people here, even homeless people have a leg up on them!

[fmccap]

You are continually making reference to heavy regulation and the lack of a free market, I'm pretty crafty and can see balances from checks. I'm still waiting for the first check so I can balance it! As of yet other than stating these regulations are causing health care costs to rise, you still have not cited one. It sounds like rhetoric to me. Insures, ambulance chasers, and and pharmaceuticals companies are the culprits. If your suggesting that the doctors need to compete with wage cuts then your nuts. A good doctor is worth (his or her) weight in gold. It are the other parties that add no value to the patients that need to concede. Frankly they are lucky to be able to make one cent off of services that someone else provides!!!!!!!!

Sharpen up your "Crafty" skills.

 

Government regulations contribute to medical debt of uninsured and underinsured

According to a new report from the Commonwealth Fund, some patients face unmanageable medical bills that can result in long-term debt because of unclear federal laws and regulations.

 

The price of price controls - proposed government regulations for controling health care costs

This macroeconomic picture, in which price controls lead to faster growth in spending, is the direct result of government meddling in the microeconomics of physicians' practices.

 

Government Regulations and Reimbursement

More "red tape" and less government funding for mandated programs means higher healthcare costs.

 

How Government Regulations Make U.S. Health Care More Expensive

One factor overlooked by both Moore and some of his critics are how the U.S. system is much less free market than it appears and that regulations are an important factor in making the system so expensive. The Economics Focus of the latest The Economist points to a study that argues that regulations cause an additional $169 billion in annual net costs.

 

Health Care Regulation A $169 Billion Hidden Tax

Students of regulation have known for

decades that the burden of regulation on the U.S.

economy is sizable, with the latest figures suggesting

this cost may approach $1 trillion in

2004. Surprisingly, given that the health industry

is often viewed as among the most heavily

regulated sectors of the U.S. economy, previous

estimates generally have ignored the cost of regulating

health care services.

 

Going back to a free market in all sectors would be a gift for all of us, things would be cheaper and taxes would be less. The best thing about it is that we would have more of OUR OWN MONEY back in OUR POCKET.

[Furious1Auto]

Sharpen up your "Crafty" skills.

 

Government regulations contribute to medical debt of uninsured and underinsured

The price of price controls - proposed government regulations for controling health care costs

Government Regulations and Reimbursement

How Government Regulations Make U.S. Health Care More Expensive

Health Care Regulation A $169 Billion Hidden Tax

Going back to a free market in all sectors would be a gift for all of us, things would be cheaper and taxes would be less. The best thing about it is that we would have more of OUR OWN MONEY back in OUR POCKET.

I'm looking for title and code of the alleged legislation that is driving up medical care costs not just the same old rhetoric! What specific laws , what specific regulations? Then we can form opinions over the affects of said legislation on health care costs!

Edited July 10, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[fmccap]

I'm looking for title and code of the alleged legislation that is driving up medical care costs not just the same old rhetoric!

Your same old rhetoric. It's there so look it up.

 

Well then since you are a National Healthcare supporter, to get the rest of us on the bandwagon show me that Government regulation does not drive up prices. Also who is going to pay for it???

[Furious1Auto]

Your same old rhetoric. It's there so look it up.

 

Well then since you are a National Healthcare supporter, to get the rest of us on the bandwagon show me that Government regulation does not drive up prices. Also who is going to pay for it???

I didn't make the assertion and can't shoot a link to legislation that doesn't exist. I know why health care costs are so high! I could sit back and post news articles based on the opinions of reporters all day too. Where is the legislation that is being reference? The burden of proof lies on those who made the assertion! What I'm wrong because you guys can't back up your statements.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[sept68]

Well what is your highest tax bracket, ours is 38% for income tax? If I was still paying the same in tax that I am now, why would I care which % of what I'm paying goes where. Your current pay scale is $7.00 a hour more than ours and every time a contract comes up we'll be trying to overcome the same medical care obstacles! My whole argument for national health care is trying to control health care cost inflation! I know there are potential down sides to universal health care but we have to do something. I think that the government would be able to control and reduce these costs greatly, our current system is going to either leave nearly everyone without health care or living off of the system. We talking about sick people here, even homeless people have a leg up on them!

 

 

Canadian pay 50% more in taxes than US citizens. They have the highest tax rate in the world. Thats right their burden is greater than France, UK, Japan, Germany, Italy by at least 25%. I don't even think they can deduct mortgage interest.

 

This is the problem with nationalized health care. There is absolutely no way to prevent freeloading. They are some people addicted to our medical system. I don't know if its the promise of free drugs, or the fact someone has to legally feel sorry for them. I know way to many people that fit into this category. They are willing to sit in ER for hours waiting for care. Some really need it and some really don't. Hospitals are not legally allowed to discriminate so we all suffer. We have a market based system. You get what you pay for. Sounds cruel but its what most Americans want. You'd be surprised at how much people that don't pay for health care use the system. Canada is manageable because they are 1/9th the size. They will see increasing care issues as their population grows.

[fmccap]

I didn't make the assertion and can't shoot a link to legislation that doesn't exist. I know why health care costs are so high! I could sit back and post news articles based on the opinions of reporters all day too. Where is the legislation that is being reference? The burden of proof lies on those who made the assertion! What I'm wrong because you guys can't back up your statements.

You made the assertion that National Healthcare is good. You have not shown me anything good about it.

 

There are research papers in those links also, try looking at one.

 

Seriously take a look at these.

This one lists some.

Reports on Federal Agency Major Rules: 1997-2005

A “major” rule has an estimated economic impact of $100 million or more each year. Heritage staff evaluated each rule, as reported to Congress by The Government Accountability Office, to determine if the net effect was an increase or decrease in regulatory burden on individuals and the economy, as compared to prior law. These evaluations were based primarily on the rule summaries and the economic impact analyses provided by the GAO, supplemented where necessary by consultation with experts in specific fields. If a rule’s effect was not primarily to increase or decrease regulatory burdens, or if its effects were so mixed as to make categorization impossible, it was not included in this analysis.

 

Red (130/186): Regulatory, burdens increased.

Blue (43/183): Deregulatory, burdens decreased.

Gray (13/183): Rule had both regulatory and deregulatory aspects.

 

Cost of Federal Regulations Soaring

The total cost to comply with federal regulations exceeded all U.S. pretax corporate profits ($874 billion) and all personal income taxes paid ($894 billion) in 2005, according to the report “Ten Thousand Commandments” prepared for the Competitive Enterprise Institute by Clyde W. Crews, Jr.

According to Crews’ research, there are currently 4,062 new rules and regulations pending implementation in over 50 federal regulatory departments, agencies, and commissions. Of those pending regulations, Crews identified 137 with a projected annual cost of compliance of over $100 million each.

 

The General Accounting Office reported that in the four fiscal years from 1996 to 1999, a total of 15,286 new federal regulations went into effect. In 1998, the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), the official listing of all regulations in effect, contained a total of 134,723 pages in 201 volumes that claimed 19 feet of shelf space. In 1970, the CFR contained only 54,834 pages.

 

“In the republic’s early days the kind of intrusive, detailed rules so prevalent today simply didn’t exist,” said Crews in a press release. “In the years since, the creep of new regulations has resulted in an unwieldy mass of expensive rules that attempt to control things which would have shocked the Founding Fathers.”

Edited July 10, 2007 by fmccap

[Furious1Auto]

Canadian pay 50% more in taxes than US citizens. They have the highest tax rate in the world. Thats right their burden is greater than France, UK, Japan, Germany, Italy by at least 25%. I don't even think they can deduct mortgage interest.

 

This is the problem with nationalized health care. There is absolutely no way to prevent freeloading. They are some people addicted to our medical system. I don't know if its the promise of free drugs, or the fact someone has to legally feel sorry for them. I know way to many people that fit into this category. They are willing to sit in ER for hours waiting for care. Some really need it and some really don't. Hospitals are not legally allowed to discriminate so we all suffer. We have a market based system. You get what you pay for. Sounds cruel but its what most Americans want. You'd be surprised at how much people that don't pay for health care use the system. Canada is manageable because they are 1/9th the size. They will see increasing care issues as their population grows.

Hey now I'm in favor of some type of intervention but not to the degree that it would allow worthless people who are physically capable and of age to work to sit around on their asses. I would make it a requirement that you bring a copy of your most recent pay stub to the hospital to receive government health care otherwise you get a bill. That stub must be dated within the last 2 weeks! I was with you on illegal immigration because you agreed it's not fair for the working man to carry people that aren't worth there salt or aren't here legally! With my employers savings we could negotiate maintaining or reducing the potential concessions we may incur. As far as payment to the government, I could take a flat rate of X amount of $ ($3,800) and divide it into 52 weeks and set them up on my online bill pay so that they receive their money without having to worry about a big bill. That's what I did with my city taxes! They get a $8.00 check from my bank every week! On 3,800 it cums up to $73.00 a week!

Edited July 10, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[bubbaf150]

Compared to our insurance of course you don't want national healthcare.

But put yourself in the avg. man's shoes and you would shut your mouth real soon.

If you were working for 30K with no insurance and 4 kids you would be begging for insurance, your kids get sick and you cannot afford a $3, 800 CAT SCAN or a $7K a day hospital stay.

Ya keep talking SHIT all of you against this and when you get laidoff or injured and can't keep a job say you don't want natl healthcare then.

Why do you think for the past 20 years the union has pushed for natl healthcare??? Because they knew then that without it sooner or later it (the healthcare tab) was gonna destroy the big 3.

 

 

I believe everyone should have health care. But I am not sold on a national health care. First, who would

adminstrate the plan. Government or private industry. The government would screw it up and they

wouldn't let anyone else be the adminastrator. Look how much it cost Ford every year for 200 thousand

people. Now you are talking about over 300 million people. Where is all the money coming from. We are

already paying to much taxes. That is one down fall. Have you look at the canadiens and europe national

plan. They are in bad shape. The rules that apply to elderly people is not very good. The unions in both

country does not like the plans at all. Before all the demcrates jump out to get a national plan let get a

little more details and find out why the other countrys doesn't care for thiers now. There is a lot of

down fall to a national health care. The government is the first.

[Furious1Auto]

I believe everyone should have health care. But I am not sold on a national health care. First, who would

adminstrate the plan. Government or private industry. The government would screw it up and they

wouldn't let anyone else be the adminastrator. Look how much it cost Ford every year for 200 thousand

people. Now you are talking about over 300 million people. Where is all the money coming from. We are

already paying to much taxes. That is one down fall. Have you look at the canadiens and europe national

plan. They are in bad shape. The rules that apply to elderly people is not very good. The unions in both

country does not like the plans at all. Before all the demcrates jump out to get a national plan let get a

little more details and find out why the other countrys doesn't care for thiers now. There is a lot of

down fall to a national health care. The government is the first.

Exactly, Don't discount the idea just refine it. We need to look at all of the cons in other systems in order to know what doesn't work, then we can mold a plan that will work. I'm only in favor if the people covered work for it as long as their capable. That's like welfare why aren't they required to day labor cleaning up trash on the side of the road or cutting City grass or going to school in order to receive a check?

[fmccap]

Hey now I'm in favor of some type of intervention but not to the degree that it would allow worthless people who are physically capable and of age to work to sit around on their asses. I would make it a requirement that you bring a copy of your most recent pay stub to the hospital to receive government health care otherwise you get a bill. That stub must be dated within the last 2 weeks! I was with you on illegal immigration because you agreed it's not fair for the working man to carry people that aren't worth there salt or aren't here legally!

Research it a little on your own(so you can find out for yourself) and you'll agree with me on this also.

[Furious1Auto]

Research it a little on your own(so you can find out for yourself) and you'll agree with me on this also.

What universal health care system requires the recipients to earn health care benefit? I still don't want coverage for those who are not citizens, excluding those here on work visa's. You must be a working or disabled U.S. citizen!

[fmccap]

What's Wrong With American Health Care?

After a year-long analysis of consumer-driven health care use by its members, Cigna reports that costs are lower by 16 percent yet patients don't seem to be cutting corners; the use of medications that support chronic conditions increased, for example, indicating that members were not foregoing needed care, a fear that many people have about shifting from the current system to a more consumer-driven one.

 

Government policy can contribute to the trend toward consumer-driven health: First, governments should work to popularize consumer-driven health care. This can be accomplished simply and easily: states can offer state employees the ability to enroll in consumer-driven plans. At present, most don't, thereby limiting the number of potential enrollees. Second, both state and federal governments must eliminate barriers to competition in health care. Consider that because state regulations limit out-of-state insurance companies from offering coverage, a 30-year-old man will pay four times more for the same health insurance policy from the same company in New York as he would in Connecticut. To create a market for health care, we need more competition - not simply among insurance carriers, but among hospitals and other providers.

 

Ten years from now, if consumer-driven health care continues to grow, things will be different - and better. After all, in five-sixth of the general economy, we look to individual choice and competition to drive innovation and lower costs. That's what will also cure America's health care malaise.

[fmccap]

This is actually a pretty good site.

http://www.freemarketcure.com/

[sept68]

That's like welfare why aren't they required to day labor cleaning up trash on the side of the road or cutting City grass or going to school in order to receive a check?

 

Workfare? If people don't want to work, they are not going to work. They will come up with more excuses than you can shake a stick at. You see it everyday at any factory. Everyone knows someone who's milked the system. They're people that who have perfected the art of malingering. They won't work construction, agriculture, fast food, retail, or any other low wage job. We already have people picking up trash and cutting the grass. They are called municipals workers making as much money as you are. The premise of universal health care is that health care is a right. Now you can't take it away from them just because they are lazy or have no marketable skills. Don't forget drug and alcohol abuse are diseases too.

[Trimdingman]

Well what is your highest tax bracket, ours is 38% for income tax? If I was still paying the same in tax that I am now, why would I care which % of what I'm paying goes where. Your current pay scale is $7.00 a hour more than ours and every time a contract comes up we'll be trying to overcome the same medical care obstacles! My whole argument for national health care is trying to control health care cost inflation! I know there are potential down sides to universal health care but we have to do something. I think that the government would be able to control and reduce these costs greatly, our current system is going to either leave nearly everyone without health care or living off of the system. We talking about sick people here, even homeless people have a leg up on them!

 

 

I would rather be homeless in the US than in Canada. Your Medicaid is probably better than our platinum service. People of means go out of the country and pay out of their own pockets rather than wait in line for 4th rate care. Personally, although I pay through the nose, I do without. I wouldn't see a doctor if I was dying.

 

If I gross $3000 in a week, I clear about $1800. Without overtime, grossing $1350, I clear about $1000. Our CPP (Canada Pension Plan) and EI (Employment Insurance) are front-end loaded. We have them all paid up by the middle of the year. All that I get deducted now is income tax and union dues.

[Furious1Auto]

Workfare? If people don't want to work, they are not going to work. They will come up with more excuses than you can shake a stick at. You see it everyday at any factory. Everyone knows someone who's milked the system. They're people that who have perfected the art of malingering. They won't work construction, agriculture, fast food, retail, or any other low wage job. We already have people picking up trash and cutting the grass. They are called municipals workers making as much money as you are. The premise of universal health care is that health care is a right. Now you can't take it away from them just because they are lazy or have no marketable skills. Don't forget drug and alcohol abuse are diseases too.

If they won't work or go to school to acquire a skill then cut off their ADC cash, food stamps, and medical! There is government money paid to colleges and trade schools by the government on behalf of low income! That's how I got my CDL, and the office to apply is right next door to the welfare office! Are you telling me that city workers don't need laborers with as much as municipalities have cut back, right!

[Furious1Auto]

I would rather be homeless in the US than in Canada. Your Medicaid is probably better than our platinum service. People of means go out of the country and pay out of their own pockets rather than wait in line for 4th rate care. Personally, although I pay through the nose, I do without. I wouldn't see a doctor if I was dying.

 

If I gross $3000 in a week, I clear about $1800. Without overtime, grossing $1350, I clear about $1000. Our CPP (Canada Pension Plan) and EI (Employment Insurance) are front-end loaded. We have them all paid up by the middle of the year. All that I get deducted now is income tax and union dues.

Canada pays for medical for everyone don't they, So that means the ones who don't work are a burden to those who do, right! I guess in that case the insurance dollars won't go as far. Now subtract the 20+ % that would not be eligible for coverage it they had to be a citizen and work. Less patients to see, medical dollars aren't spread so thin and better quality coverage than you have now. I don't think health care is a right, the Bible says that men will toil in the fields from dusk till dawn to earn their keep! If your disabled than you get a pass.

[Trimdingman]

Canada pays for medical for everyone don't they, So that means the ones who don't work are a burden to those who do, right! I guess in that case the insurance dollars won't go as far. Now subtract the 20+ % that would not be eligible for coverage it they had to be a citizen and work. Less patients to see, medical dollars aren't spread so thin and better quality coverage than you have now. I don't think health care is a right, the Bible says that men will toil in the fields from dusk till dawn to earn their keep! If your disabled than you get a pass.

 

Canada (The Canadian Government) pays for NOTHING. We pay to support those misfits. The more obstacles that they throw in our way, the longer they exist. Imagine The Three Stooges; an ape is after them. Moe pokes it in the eyes. Curly dazzles it with his durby-machine gun routine. Larry plays the violin and puts it to sleep. Tippy toe, tippy toe. Oops, forgot about the open man hole. Those m'fers will get you come Hell or high water. You can't win. Your best bet is to move to Quebec and join the Separatists.

[Furious1Auto]

Canada (The Canadian Government) pays for NOTHING. We pay to support those misfits. The more obstacles that they throw in our way, the longer they exist. Imagine The Three Stooges; an ape is after them. Moe pokes it in the eyes. Curly dazzles it with his durby-machine gun routine. Larry plays the violin and puts it to sleep. Tippy toe, tippy toe. Oops, forgot about the open man hole. Those m'fers will get you come Hell or high water. You can't win. Your best bet is to move to Quebec and join the Separatists.

Oh me, it's to hard to change things I geuss I quit and move away!

[fmccap]

Canada pays for medical for everyone don't they, So that means the ones who don't work are a burden to those who do, right! I guess in that case the insurance dollars won't go as far. Now subtract the 20+ % that would not be eligible for coverage it they had to be a citizen and work. Less patients to see, medical dollars aren't spread so thin and better quality coverage than you have now. I don't think health care is a right, the Bible says that men will toil in the fields from dusk till dawn to earn their keep! If your disabled than you get a pass.

Who is going to pay ours????

Tell me why the Government needs to be involved in the first place?????

If it's not a right(which I believe) then why don't we just let those who want it get it ourselves????

 

P.S. Could you show me why it's expensive right now? Since the Government is not the problem, I would like to know what is.

[fmccap]

Oh me, it's to hard to change things I geuss I quit and move away!

When there is to many sheep what other choice do you have?

[fmccap]

Canada pays for medical for everyone don't they, So that means the ones who don't work are a burden to those who do, right!

Where does Governments get there money to do anything????