Len_A Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Detroit News, 7-6-07: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060397/1148/ also: Goodyear retirees in wait-and-see mode: Leader of club for ex-employees has fielded questions, concerns from autoworkers. : http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060393/1148/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpleman Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Detroit News, 7-6-07: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060397/1148/ also: Goodyear retirees in wait-and-see mode: Leader of club for ex-employees has fielded questions, concerns from autoworkers. : http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060393/1148/ I think it would be a good idea. The IBEW local here in Norfolk does that and so does the ILA local as well. One big point of them is that You must have a certain amount of hours worked in a year for certain levels of coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forddaughter Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 How would the dependents fit into all of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 It's a huge payoff to the national executive board, Our union will control it and if they invest it unwisely we will have nothing. Do you want them using your pension to invest in a brutal investment market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simpleman Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 How would the dependents fit into all of this? With the health care given by the ILA (International Longshoremen Association), they are covered just as they are with your current plan. The key is the total work hours you accumulate through the year. There is three levels of coverage, the less hours you work, the less coverage you are given. The Union per say doesn't manage the plan, a 3rd party handles the heath care plans and payments. If done properly, it is a good system and one that has been in use for quite awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Sounds dangerous. I still don't see what advantage the Union fund would have? Workers pay directly to the UAW and they pay the health care bills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chassisgrunt Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 this would be terrible for us. what gives anybody the idea that the UAW knows how to manage a health plan of that size? its a win for ford to save them money long term, its a win for the uaw because it gives them a huge cash windfall.....but it will screw us in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sept68 Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 this would be terrible for us. what gives anybody the idea that the UAW knows how to manage a health plan of that size? its a win for ford to save them money long term, its a win for the uaw because it gives them a huge cash windfall.....but it will screw us in the end. Ford doesn't manage the plan either. They contract it out. The UAW leadership has to make sure they don't get screwed moneywise. I think the company wants the membership to actually see how much health care is costing them. What better way to do that than handling the funds yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Sounds dangerous. I still don't see what advantage the Union fund would have? Workers pay directly to the UAW and they pay the health care bills? It is ! First, where's Ford going to come up with $12-13 billion. Borrow it ? There's a winner. Second, our union will handle it through a 3rd party administer ? Great, lets just create more union appointed for life jobs. Third , everyone knows how bad the healthcare inflation rate is. So to keep inflation from eating up the billions of "borrowed" dineros, either coverage has to be weakened or the members have to eat it. At 9-12 % increase per year, our coverage wont look at all like we have it now. JMO but I dont think GM or Ford can afford it up front, I dont trust our union to manage it, and I surely dont want to get slammed every time I go to the Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnson Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Who ever thought that an unfunded pyramid scheme would eventually collapse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) It is ! First, where's Ford going to come up with $12-13 billion. Borrow it ? There's a winner. Second, our union will handle it through a 3rd party administer ? Great, lets just create more union appointed for life jobs. Third , everyone knows how bad the healthcare inflation rate is. So to keep inflation from eating up the billions of "borrowed" dineros, either coverage has to be weakened or the members have to eat it. At 9-12 % increase per year, our coverage wont look at all like we have it now. JMO but I dont think GM or Ford can afford it up front, I dont trust our union to manage it, and I surely dont want to get slammed every time I go to the Dr. Interesting point, if we can even get 9 to 12% return on our money unsecured. By what rate does health care inflation grow? 15 to 20% if the inflation growth is more than our return then it would be worse than paying for you doctor bills out of a bank account! Within 5 years a growth gap like this could cause our health care dollars worth 25% less losing an average value of 5% per year! You can forget the investment keeping pace with health care inflation! Las Vegas is already built and we won't get lucky enough to find a cash cow in the desert to invest in! Edited July 7, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Interesting point, if we can even get 9 to 12% return on our money unsecured. By what rate does health care inflation grow? 15 to 20% if the inflation growth is more than our return then it would be worse than paying for you doctor bills out of a bank account! Within 5 years a growth gap like this could cause our health care dollars worth 25% less losing an average value of 5% per year! You can forget the investment keeping pace with health care inflation! Las Vegas is already built and we won't get lucky enough to find a cash cow in the desert! Thats exactly my biggest worry right there. Everyone, everywhere is screaming about fixing healthcare. So lets dump it on the UAW and things will be better ?? Doesnt make sense to me. All the same problems will still be there. So as these costs spiral up, either the care gets worse or we start to do some serious shoring up of the plan. In $$$. I dont mind helping the company but this is extreme.Now they could trash the retirees' plan , modify(pay more) our plan, and give us a chunk of $$ to vote yes in Sept. Remember retirees don't vote. The largest chunk on costs is retirees prior to age 65 (medicare). Personally I would not want this to happen, but it wouldnt surprise me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoomerjrt Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 Detroit News, 7-6-07: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060397/1148/ also: Goodyear retirees in wait-and-see mode: Leader of club for ex-employees has fielded questions, concerns from autoworkers. : http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...707060393/1148/ The UAW can't even keep membership up, its on a downward spin out of control, and you think they can help heath care. HAHAHAHAHAHAH TTTTTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY!!!!!!!! Good luck to you all if this happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeezNutz Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Do you trust the your union to stay out of it and let the third party manage it? At their last Vegas convention the took money out of our strike fund. Given the current circumstances we're in that doesn't seem like the best move to me. JMO. It sounds like a good idea if they can keep their hands out of it, or keep from borrowing against it when times get tough. Another question I have is, if it saves Ford $1400 per vehicle will that savings, or even a portion of it be passed on to the consumer? I doubt it. Would you or I see any of it? Not if profit sharing goes with this contract. I suppose you could argue it would provide some job security, but we'll still have the same management making the same poor decisions.... just getting fatter bonuses. Two major issues here. Do you trust the UAW not to mismanage/raid your health care fund? Do you think saving FoMoCo that much money will benefit you in either pay or job security...will you see any benefit from it? Anyway, I'm on vacation so I'm not thinking about it anymore. All the same BS will be there when I get back. Hope you're all enjoyin' yours! Edited July 8, 2007 by DeezNutz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Shifting pension benefits to UAW protects workers http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ION01/707080315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptsweeper Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Under most circumstances, I would say this is a bad idea. In a normal situation, the subject company can use regular profits to fund the health care system when needed. The UAW doesn't have that option. But basd on Ford's current health, I think it is an advantage for some of the health care money to set aside. If Ford remains solvent, then they will continue to help fund it through contributions. If they are not solvent, all will be lost anyway. This doesn't affect me directly, so maybe that changes my opinion, but I think the best bet is to move what money exists now in to an independent fund. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Under most circumstances, I would say this is a bad idea. In a normal situation, the subject company can use regular profits to fund the health care system when needed. The UAW doesn't have that option. But basd on Ford's current health, I think it is an advantage for some of the health care money to set aside. If Ford remains solvent, then they will continue to help fund it through contributions. If they are not solvent, all will be lost anyway. This doesn't affect me directly, so maybe that changes my opinion, but I think the best bet is to move what money exists now in to an independent fund. Anyone who would sacrifice their personal finances to save someone else who doesn't care about them is a moron. They need to find there cost savings somewhere else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Anyone who would sacrifice their personal finances to save someone else who doesn't care about them is a moron. They need to find there cost savings somewhere else! Ford is going to do whatever they see fit to do. What are you going to do about it? Strike yourself down to $13 an hour? Maybe if the uaw runs the health plan you folks will see how you've been f'ing ford over for years. Let's get all those ex-employees to come back and give you a refresher course in what waits for you if ford says they don't want you anymore. I read some saying they are doing great but other then a guy running his own painting business I don't see anyone else posting what they make, what job they got, and in what industry. Ford management could walk in and piss on most of your heads and you wouldn't do shit. They're basically telling you to go away now but you won't. Edited July 8, 2007 by davdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Ford is going to do whatever they see fit to do. What are you going to do about it? Strike yourself down to $13 an hour? Maybe if the uaw runs the health plan you folks will see how you've been f'ing ford over for years. Let's get all those ex-employees to come back and give you a refresher course in what waits for you if ford says they don't want you anymore. I read some saying they are doing great but other then a guy running his own painting business I don't see anyone else posting what they make, what job they got, and in what industry. Ford management could walk in and piss on most of your heads and you wouldn't do shit. They're basically telling you to go away now but you won't. WHAT a bunch of LIES.....typical davdog rhetoric! do you think there is not life after ford ? there is , and it can be good also. so if ford goes down, let it. then what will you complain about ? you still sound like a jealous hater... waaaah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 WHAT a bunch of LIES.....typical davdog rhetoric! do you think there is not life after ford ? there is , and it can be good also. so if ford goes down, let it. then what will you complain about ? you still sound like a jealous hater... waaaah This from the ultimate of bullshit artists. You've still got it in your head that you're going to start in the IT field at 65k huh? You'll be lucky to pick up an entry level desktop job for 35k. Nothing wrong with 35k for starting salary, that's for sure, but you're not going to be getting this 65 to 85k that you're talking about. You're enty level there dick head, come to grips with it. Other then playing games with your action figures and working at a parts assembly plant you ain't got the job related skills yet. Once you've got them then you can shoot off your mouth, but first you've got to get them. Of course there is life after ford, I've got 2 members of my immediate family who are dealing with that life now. You shoot your mouth off a lot for a guy who is now willing to flow back into the ford system. You give the NAP guys a lot of shit yet you are going to keep doing whatever it takes to stay on the ford payroll, including swallowing. You can spew all the bullshit you want but if any of it were true you would have already taken a job and moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 This from the ultimate of bullshit artists. You've still got it in your head that you're going to start in the IT field at 65k huh? You'll be lucky to pick up an entry level desktop job for 35k. Nothing wrong with 35k for starting salary, that's for sure, but you're not going to be getting this 65 to 85k that you're talking about. You're enty level there dick head, come to grips with it. Other then playing games with your action figures and working at a parts assembly plant you ain't got the job related skills yet. Once you've got them then you can shoot off your mouth, but first you've got to get them.Of course there is life after ford, I've got 2 members of my immediate family who are dealing with that life now. You shoot your mouth off a lot for a guy who is now willing to flow back into the ford system. You give the NAP guys a lot of shit yet you are going to keep doing whatever it takes to stay on the ford payroll, including swallowing. You can spew all the bullshit you want but if any of it were true you would have already taken a job and moved on. LOOK who is talking!!!!! you talk some of the biggest BULLSHIT around here.... i never said i would start at 65K, in fact who made that at ford on the assm. line ? nope...avg pay is 45K 85k ? yeah ok....where did you read that ? i already got them.....in about 6 more months i'll have my masters...so fuck off! DICK! flowback ? nope not going to happen.... who is shooting who's mouth off ? i've read some fo you other posts... DOOOM AND GLOOM...typical..very negative.... most of the NAP guys on here SUCK...so what's new ? i'm not whining..like them or you rant off gotta go study up.... oh yeah...KISS MY AZZ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Shifting pension benefits to UAW protects workershttp://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ION01/707080315 So shifting pension obligations to pay for healthcare...hmm... I am sorry but this, just in case a co. goes belly up So the retirees get some kind of coverage while all the others are on the street ?? I am getting the same kinda feeling as you get when your talking to a used car salesman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 LOOK who is talking!!!!! you talk some of the biggest BULLSHIT around here.... i never said i would start at 65K, in fact who made that at ford on the assm. line ? nope...avg pay is 45K 85k ? yeah ok....where did you read that ? i already got them.....in about 6 more months i'll have my masters...so fuck off! DICK! flowback ? nope not going to happen.... who is shooting who's mouth off ? i've read some fo you other posts... DOOOM AND GLOOM...typical..very negative.... most of the NAP guys on here SUCK...so what's new ? i'm not whining..like them or you rant off gotta go study up.... oh yeah...KISS MY AZZ! You are so full of shit. You won't have a masters in anything but playing with action figures in the cellar. Whose negative? Not me. And what, pray tell, is your masters going to be in? Huh? At least NAP guys who stayed will have jobs in the greater norfolk area. to kiss your ass you would need to pull that ring of fat that is covering it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark270 Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 You are so full of shit. You won't have a masters in anything but playing with action figures in the cellar. Whose negative? Not me. And what, pray tell, is your masters going to be in? Huh? At least NAP guys who stayed will have jobs in the greater norfolk area. to kiss your ass you would need to pull that ring of fat that is covering it up. are dumb and DEAF ? let's see my masters is going to be......gardening! are you that stupid ? oh is this site liars too ? 7 Computer/IT analyst $83,500 AVERAGE PAY 36% 10-YEAR GROWTH 67,300 ANNUAL JOB OPENINGS STRESS C FLEXIBILITY C CREATIVITY D EASE OF ENTRY B WHY IT'S GREAT Seems like the entire world is at the mercy of information technology folks, thanks to the rapid spread of computers and swell of the Internet. And all of these jobs pay well, from desktop support technician to Webmaster to database wonk. Entry-level analysts make $60,000 and above. Senior database specialists and IT managers command six-figure salaries and decent bonuses. A bachelor's degree is enough to get started. WHAT'S COOL Telecommuting and freelance gigs abound. Plus: e-mail snooping! WHAT'S NOT Carpal tunnel syndrome; outsourcing will mean fewer entry-level and nonspecialized jobs. TOP-PAYING JOB Network operations directors, who are responsible for a company's intranet, earn $250,000-plus. EDUCATION From a B.S. to a Ph.D. whatever, keep talking your BS i'm not listening... i have to go and study up! this is going to be a wonderful life! enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davdog Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 are dumb and DEAF ? let's see my masters is going to be......gardening! are you that stupid ? oh is this site liars too ? 7 Computer/IT analyst $83,500 AVERAGE PAY 36% 10-YEAR GROWTH 67,300 ANNUAL JOB OPENINGS STRESS C FLEXIBILITY C CREATIVITY D EASE OF ENTRY B WHY IT'S GREAT Seems like the entire world is at the mercy of information technology folks, thanks to the rapid spread of computers and swell of the Internet. And all of these jobs pay well, from desktop support technician to Webmaster to database wonk. Entry-level analysts make $60,000 and above. Senior database specialists and IT managers command six-figure salaries and decent bonuses. A bachelor's degree is enough to get started. WHAT'S COOL Telecommuting and freelance gigs abound. Plus: e-mail snooping! WHAT'S NOT Carpal tunnel syndrome; outsourcing will mean fewer entry-level and nonspecialized jobs. TOP-PAYING JOB Network operations directors, who are responsible for a company's intranet, earn $250,000-plus. EDUCATION From a B.S. to a Ph.D. whatever, keep talking your BS i'm not listening... i have to go and study up! this is going to be a wonderful life! enjoy! Do you really think anyone believes you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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