BlackHorse Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 He really didn't like it at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIJc8xO8RNI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000SableWagon Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Jeremy is right, diesels are the way to go and we don't have many diesel option on this side of the pond. My brother has a Jetta diesel and he get 45 MPG, it isn't effected by the cold and it isn't ugly to boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Star Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Jeremy is idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Jeremy is idiot. English isn't your first language, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLaudioF150 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 English isn't your first language, is it? You're brutal Nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misteredog Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 You're brutal Nick! Maybe, or maybe he's just being observant. RedStars' signature is a logo for the Serbian soccer team Crvena Zvezda. Slavic languages generall do not use the definite or indefinite article, and RedStar dropped the indefinite article in his sentence, as my Polish and Russian speaking grandmother always did when speaking. Therefor it is reasonable to assume that RedStar may well not be a native English speaker but rather a native Serbian speaker. Or Nick may just have been brutally expressing is disagreement with RedStars' opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Maybe, or maybe he's just being observant. RedStars' signature is a logo for the Serbian soccer team Crvena Zvezda. Slavic languages generall do not use the definite or indefinite article, and RedStar dropped the indefinite article in his sentence, as my Polish and Russian speaking grandmother always did when speaking. Therefor it is reasonable to assume that RedStar may well not be a native English speaker but rather a native Serbian speaker. Or Nick may just have been brutally expressing is disagreement with RedStars' opinion. Red Star is indeed from the Baltic region. I've known him for quite some time on The Mustang Source. He's a pretty good guy so I don't really don't see the need to bash him just because his English isn't perfect (or he doesn't like Jeremy Clarkson). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Red Star is indeed from the Baltic region. I've known him for quite some time on The Mustang Source. He's a pretty good guy so I don't really don't see the need to bash him just because his English isn't perfect (or he doesn't like Jeremy Clarkson). just hadn't had my morning coffee yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 It's about time it was said, Toyota is falsely advertising their vehicles. I noticed that they decided not to post fuel mileages on their new line of commercials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 It's about time it was said, Toyota is falsely advertising their vehicles. I noticed that they decided not to post fuel mileages on their new line of commercials! How many times do we have to point out that Toyota has NOTHING to do with the mileage tests or the reported figures. Toyota is REQUIRED to post those mileage figures on their vehicles and they're not allowed to advertise anything else. Your beef should be with the EPA test procedures, not any of the auto mfrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) How many times do we have to point out that Toyota has NOTHING to do with the mileage tests or the reported figures. Toyota is REQUIRED to post those mileage figures on their vehicles and they're not allowed to advertise anything else. Your beef should be with the EPA test procedures, not any of the auto mfrs. Show me a link or legislation passage that requires the manufacturer to post EPA mileages in their T.V. advertising! It's not a smart move when they no their is a disparity from the actual numbers. Also Their is no law restricting them from posting the EPA estimate next to numbers their testing actually came up with as long as they define it as such! If I where selling something and someone else hyped it up to be more than what it is, then to keep people from buying it under false pretenses and being disappointed. I would not use it in national advertising, or if I did it would be in the fine print on the T.V. adds. And yes I do have beef with the EPA testing methods. Edited July 19, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misteredog Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Red Star is indeed from the Baltic region. I've known him for quite some time on The Mustang Source. He's a pretty good guy so I don't really don't see the need to bash him just because his English isn't perfect (or he doesn't like Jeremy Clarkson). Baltic(Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland) or Balkan ( Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Kosovo, etc.)? I'm not bashing anyone, just trying to avoid housepainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 (edited) Buy a Toyota Prius you get a free bottle of champagne, a free tank of petrol and a free full valet of your car, Why, because you might get torched & fried alive driving one. http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyr...hicleRecall.pdf http://www.baileycar.com/prius_problems.html Edited July 19, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Baltic(Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland) or Balkan ( Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Kosovo, etc.)? I'm not bashing anyone, just trying to avoid housepainting Sorry...you're right. I should have said Balkan. I hadn't had my morning coffee either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Show me a link or legislation passage that requires the manufacturer to post EPA mileages in their T.V. advertising! It's not a smart move when they no their is a disparity from the actual numbers. Also Their is no law restricting them from posting the EPA estimate next to numbers their testing actually came up with as long as they define it as such! If I where selling something and someone else hyped it up to be more than what it is, then to keep people from buying it under false pretenses and being disappointed. I would not use it in national advertising, or if I did it would be in the fine print on the T.V. adds. And yes I do have beef with the EPA testing methods. The emphasis should have been on the word those as in -- Toyota is required to put THOSE numbers on their ads. In other words, the EPA assigns the numbers after testing the cars. Toyota (or anyone else) doesn't have anything to do with the numbers that the cars return in EPA testing. It's not like they're choosing the figures that appear -- the EPA tests the cars and returns that figure to the manufacturers. Akirby was not saying that they have to post mileage figures in ads -- what he/she meant is that the numbers that appear in ads (should the manufacturer choose to advertise them) have to be EPA numbers... they can't be numbers reached in internal tests or anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The emphasis should have been on the word those as in -- Toyota is required to put THOSE numbers on their ads. In other words, the EPA assigns the numbers after testing the cars. Toyota (or anyone else) doesn't have anything to do with the numbers that the cars return in EPA testing. It's not like they're choosing the figures that appear -- the EPA tests the cars and returns that figure to the manufacturers. Akirby was not saying that they have to post mileage figures in ads -- what he/she meant is that the numbers that appear in ads (should the manufacturer choose to advertise them) have to be EPA numbers... they can't be numbers reached in internal tests or anywhere else. Exactly. The EPA numbers DO NOT REPRESENT YOUR EXPECTED ACTUAL FUEL ECONOMY. Says so right on the sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) Exactly. The EPA numbers DO NOT REPRESENT YOUR EXPECTED ACTUAL FUEL ECONOMY. Says so right on the sticker. They used the numbers in their adds to entice new customers knowing that they where not accurate, that sounds like false advertising to me. If there is no expectation that you should be getting what the EPA says then aren't they irrelevant figures? Edited July 20, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 They used the numbers in their adds to entice new customers knowing that they where not accurate, that sounds like false advertising to me. If there is no expectation that you should be getting what the EPA says then aren't they irrelevant figures? They are PERFECTLY ACCURATE for what they represent. If the EPA allowed them to advertise their own mileage estimates then they would all design their own tests that give them better results and all the tests would be different and there would be no way to compare them. The EPA dictates the tests and therefore the test results and it's the same for all manufacturers. The fact that the Prius is more optimistic than others is based on the way the hybrid system works. Perhaps you should actually read what the sticker says. Here is the exact wording from a Fusion V6 sticker: CITY MPG 20 HIGHWAY MPG 28 Vehicle Engine Information 2007 FUSION 3.0L DOHC V6, FUEL INJECTION, CATALYST, 6-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION Actual mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition. Results reported to EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve between 17 and 23 mpg in the city and between 23 and 33 mpg on the highway. For Comparison Shopping all vehicles classified as MIDSIZE have been issued mileage ratings from 10 to 60 mpg city and 16 to 51 mpg highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAdams Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 (edited) They used the numbers in their adds to entice new customers knowing that they where not accurate, that sounds like false advertising to me. If there is no expectation that you should be getting what the EPA says then aren't they irrelevant figures? You're half right: It's not false advertising because the automaker didn't make up the numbers -- they used the only figures that they're allowed to use -- those from the EPA. However, the EPA's figures are, in some cases, a total crock which is why the testing procedures are being revamped. The hope is that the new EPA figures will more closely resemble what actual consumers are getting in actual driving. In that sense, yes, the current EPA figures are irrelevant (or at least less relevant than they should be) but it's all we've got at the moment and the automakers are stuck with those figures for better or for worse. With the said, the EPA figures are never going to match what you're going to get -- they're merely a guideline to be used for comparison. There's no way to accurately identify (let alone reproduce) the actual driving conditions that every consumer in every locale is going to face, so a standard test was developed which is where the value of the EPA's tests come in... the procedures are standardized so every vehicle they test is measured against the same set of criteria. This is the difference between precision and accuracy. As akirby pointed out in the post above mine, in the case of the Fusion V6 they give a +/- 15% window for city MPG and +/- nearly 18% for highway mileage. And even then it says for the majority of vehicles. Not an exact science by any stretch. Edited July 20, 2007 by RAdams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 They are PERFECTLY ACCURATE for what they represent. If the EPA allowed them to advertise their own mileage estimates then they would all design their own tests that give them better results and all the tests would be different and there would be no way to compare them. The EPA dictates the tests and therefore the test results and it's the same for all manufacturers. The fact that the Prius is more optimistic than others is based on the way the hybrid system works. Perhaps you should actually read what the sticker says. Here is the exact wording from a Fusion V6 sticker: CITY MPG 20 HIGHWAY MPG 28 Vehicle Engine Information 2007 FUSION 3.0L DOHC V6, FUEL INJECTION, CATALYST, 6-SPEED AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION Actual mileage will vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition. Results reported to EPA indicate that the majority of vehicles with these estimates will achieve between 17 and 23 mpg in the city and between 23 and 33 mpg on the highway. For Comparison Shopping all vehicles classified as MIDSIZE have been issued mileage ratings from 10 to 60 mpg city and 16 to 51 mpg highway. What they represent? Their suppose to represent what the fuel mileage is for the vehicle in question. Why don't they test drive three of each vehicle and average the mileages and record them! then when they say EPA estimated mileage you have a close to accurate expectation of what the vehicle is capable of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 What they represent? Their suppose to represent what the fuel mileage is for the vehicle in question. Why don't they test drive three of each vehicle and average the mileages and record them! then when they say EPA estimated mileage you have a close to accurate expectation of what the vehicle is capable of! Complain to the EPA then. If you haven't noticed by now, the EPA significantly lowered the Prius' fuel economy for '08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Complain to the EPA then. If you haven't noticed by now, the EPA significantly lowered the Prius' fuel economy for '08. I saw that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Star Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 English isn't your first language, is it? No, it's not. Everyone else gave you details so I guess I don't have to repeat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 No, it's not. Everyone else gave you details so I guess I don't have to repeat them. Nope, and I've since had my coffee. Guess I need to remember that "The Internets" aren't just open to Americans. My apologies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Star Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I wasn't born in the USA, but I'm American citizen. I moved to the USA in 1999 and I became citizen in 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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