What's Up With Nissan?

[llog215]

Just curious why there's very little mention of Nissan sales declining. It's usually mentioned as a footnote. Not long ago many "analysts" were suggesting that Ford needed to follow Nissans lead by offering gobs of power and "exciting" design. Funny how quality, or the lack there of in Nissans case, seems to have done away with their sales momentum. They were initially lumped in with Honda and Toyota and assumed to have superior quality because they are Japanese.

[marc-o]

Just curious why there's very little mention of Nissan sales declining. It's usually mentioned as a footnote. Not long ago many "analysts" were suggesting that Ford needed to follow Nissans lead by offering gobs of power and "exciting" design. Funny how quality, or the lack there of in Nissans case, seems to have done away with their sales momentum. They were initially lumped in with Honda and Toyota and assumed to have superior quality because they are Japanese.

 

be careful about any assumptions you make... yes a lot of people lump nissan (or any japanese manufacturer) with toyota or honda simply because they're japanese...it's never that simple. there are reasons why toyota became so popular and suzuki stalled.

 

that said, comparing month over month sales is almost always misleading. the numbers are compared to last year with no mention of what happened last year. almost guaranteed domestic sales are going to tank this summer...why? employee rebates last year. little things like promotions, extra advertizing, extra production (or shortages), internal promotions, one-of fleet sales can throw numbers off and make comparisons misleading. Maybe nissan had a particularily strong january last year? I dont know, i dont have time to check but 1 month or even 3-4 months isn't enough to change my opinion one way or another.

 

lastly, my general impression of nissan (especially lately) is that they are good at catering to the hot trendy crowd, which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically. chrysler operates in a similar way. in any case, its' a riskier way of doing business, but at the end of the day if it keeps them going, what an we say? bottomline - a few months sales pullback doesn't mean much. consecutive annual sales declines - that says much more.

[foxrun]

be careful about any assumptions you make... yes a lot of people lump nissan (or any japanese manufacturer) with toyota or honda simply because they're japanese...it's never that simple. there are reasons why toyota became so popular and suzuki stalled.

 

that said, comparing month over month sales is almost always misleading. the numbers are compared to last year with no mention of what happened last year. almost guaranteed domestic sales are going to tank this summer...why? employee rebates last year. little things like promotions, extra advertizing, extra production (or shortages), internal promotions, one-of fleet sales can throw numbers off and make comparisons misleading. Maybe nissan had a particularily strong january last year? I dont know, i dont have time to check but 1 month or even 3-4 months isn't enough to change my opinion one way or another.

 

lastly, my general impression of nissan (especially lately) is that they are good at catering to the hot trendy crowd, which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically. chrysler operates in a similar way. in any case, its' a riskier way of doing business, but at the end of the day if it keeps them going, what an we say? bottomline - a few months sales pullback doesn't mean much. consecutive annual sales declines - that says much more.

 

 

So WTF are you saying. Don't be to quick to judge? YOU! Jezz bud get over your own CRAP.

 

What is it you say about the cd3 triplets or the 500?

 

PLEEEEEEEEASE.

Edited February 2, 2006 by foxrun

[llog215]

be careful about any assumptions you make... yes a lot of people lump nissan (or any japanese manufacturer) with toyota or honda simply because they're japanese...it's never that simple. there are reasons why toyota became so popular and suzuki stalled.

 

that said, comparing month over month sales is almost always misleading. the numbers are compared to last year with no mention of what happened last year. almost guaranteed domestic sales are going to tank this summer...why? employee rebates last year. little things like promotions, extra advertizing, extra production (or shortages), internal promotions, one-of fleet sales can throw numbers off and make comparisons misleading. Maybe nissan had a particularily strong january last year? I dont know, i dont have time to check but 1 month or even 3-4 months isn't enough to change my opinion one way or another.

 

lastly, my general impression of nissan (especially lately) is that they are good at catering to the hot trendy crowd, which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically. chrysler operates in a similar way. in any case, its' a riskier way of doing business, but at the end of the day if it keeps them going, what an we say? bottomline - a few months sales pullback doesn't mean much. consecutive annual sales declines - that says much more.

 

I agree with most of your points and they are rational. However, the same rationale is not afforded to any of the domestics. Any sign of blood and the vultures start circling. I'm simply providing another example of the blatant double standard that exists.....

[PolarBear]

Nissan is not Japanese.

 

Good point- they speak French...I assume.

[Paul Selby]

my general impression of nissan (especially lately) is that they are good at catering to the hot trendy crowd, which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically.

 

I think this is right on. IMHO, of all the manufacturers Nissan makes some of the strangest/ugliest/polarizing vehicles.

[PoorBob]

Just curious why there's very little mention of Nissan sales declining. It's usually mentioned as a footnote. Not long ago many "analysts" were suggesting that Ford needed to follow Nissans lead by offering gobs of power and "exciting" design. Funny how quality, or the lack there of in Nissans case, seems to have done away with their sales momentum. They were initially lumped in with Honda and Toyota and assumed to have superior quality because they are Japanese.

 

If you look at Nissan's sales gains in 2004 and 2005, they were almost entirely driven by new products coming out of its Mississippi plant. Each Titan pickup, Quest minivan and Armada SUV was a brand-new sale, so when you look at year-over-year comps, it was all new volume.

 

So if you didn't look too closely at the numbers, it looked like Nissan was getting huge year-over-year gains.

 

But in reality, the company was struggling quite a bit. Sure, it had new sales from the minivans, pickups and SUVs, but the results were far below expectations. They wanted to sell 50k minivans, they sold 35k. They wanted 100k pickups, they sold 85k.

 

The Mississippi plant has been lackluster at best. The quality is poor, and the products aren't selling well.

 

So far this year, they haven't had any new products, and their older models aren't setting the world on fire anymore, so their year-over-year comps suck.

 

I'm guessing that will turn around late this summer when they launch the redesigned Altima and Sentra and the all-new Versa. But the margins are pretty thin on those vehicles, so it won't help the company hit its profit goals.

 

If you look at news reports in Tennessee and Mississippi, where Nissan has large operations, you'll see more attention paid to stuff like this. For the rest of the country, Nissan is an afterthought like VW or Kia. Sure, they sell a lot of cars, but the big 5 (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda) are the ones that count.

 

Bob

[Ovaltine]

I think this is right on. IMHO, of all the manufacturers Nissan makes some of the strangest/ugliest/polarizing vehicles.

I'm now driving a 2004 Nissan Sentra from Enterprise Rent a Car due to my KIA Spectra being in the body shop. Someone scuffed the corner of the front bumper fascia when my wife was driving it. DOH!

 

But back to the Sentra.....

 

All I can say is that the current Sentra is a literal pain-in-the-butt (and back!) compared to my new gen Spectra.

 

The Sentra's standard 1.8L runs pretty good, and it isn't a rattle-trap. It also handles corners pretty well. The trunk is fairly large too. It's longer than the Spectra's due to a more pronounced trunk sticking out the back.

 

But beyond that I realllllyyyy dislike this car. The interior ergonomics are pretty poor, and the overall feel of the interior is way below what I'm used to in my Spectra. I *hate* the front seats. I cannot get comfortable in the driver's seat at all! They're hard, and they pinch the back. I also can't get the seat bottom adjusted properly to eliminate the pressure that's being put on my lower back. There is no way I could ever take a trip in this car. I put in 5 hours on my Spectra going up to Traverse City once, and felt totally great when I got out of the car. With the Sentra that wouldn't have been possible.

 

Many of the standard features I'm used to the Spectra are missing on the Sentra too. The back seat legroom is almost non-existent too when a normal 6' person is sitting comfortably up front.

 

There's pictures of a 2007 Sentra that's forthcoming, so I'm sure that car will be *much* better than the current one.

 

But to answer the original question, I can DEFINITELY see why Nissan's sales are off.... esp. if they're dependent on Sentra sales very much.

 

-Ovaltine

Edited February 3, 2006 by Ovaltine

[630land]

Do some homework. Nissans 'huge decline' was due to lower truck and Infiniti sales. And no, the Sentra was not 'way off, they sold about 9500 in Jan. Pretty good for an 'old' car. Murano sales were up quite a bit, and Altima hangs in there.

 

Also, never judge a car from a rental experiance.

[marc-o]

So WTF are you saying. Don't be to quick to judge? YOU! Jezz bud get over your own CRAP.

 

What is it you say about the cd3 triplets or the 500?

 

PLEEEEEEEEASE.

 

what are you talking about? please quote anything unless you're talking out of your rear end or unless you're sure you're not confusing me with someone else.

[630land]

"which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically. chrysler operates in a similar way. "

 

300 sales are still high. Their minvans still lead.

 

PT Cruiser sales, which 'experts' claimed to be 'dying' are way up, still selling 5 years later. [Wasn't it supped to be dead by now??]

So, it shows that 'experts' don't know it all.

[marc-o]

"which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically. chrysler operates in a similar way. "

 

300 sales are still high. Their minvans still lead.

 

PT Cruiser sales, which 'experts' claimed to be 'dying' are way up, still selling 5 years later. [Wasn't it supped to be dead by now??]

So, it shows that 'experts' don't know it all.

 

But incentives and fleet sales are up on the 300...and they're off their highs. Ditto with the PT cruiser... they're on a long term downtrend.

 

That said, I was referring to Chrysler getting saved by certain vehicles, like the 300, and the minivan. In each case, the company was in trouble before they came out... and then it prospered. Like I said, nothing wrong with that, it's just a risky way of running a business (initial booms and then long blahs).

 

I'm not disagreeing about the "experts"... then again no one here knows more than them, so who are we to talk?

[OKC03Cobra]

Nissan is about to make the same mistake with their upcoming 450Z that Toyota did with their Supra. The Supra was a terrific performance car but was overpriced about $10k. The new 450Z will have a 4.5L V8 and 430hp but will cost $50k-$55k. It makes the Shelby GT500 look like a bargain.

[foxrun]

what are you talking about? please quote anything unless you're talking out of your rear end or unless you're sure you're not confusing me with someone else.

 

so your opinion on those cars is?

[PolarBear]

Nissan is about to make the same mistake with their upcoming 450Z that Toyota did with their Supra. The Supra was a terrific performance car but was overpriced about $10k. The new 450Z will have a 4.5L V8 and 430hp but will cost $50k-$55k. It makes the Shelby GT500 look like a bargain.

 

Then every car mag will trot the car out as the new Japanese Corvette-beater... :rolleyes: Yeah, right.

[Bluecon]

Nissan is going to pay the price for their bad quality. Beautiful cars, great engine and poor quality. It's a recipe for disaster. It's Renault all over again except they had a better product. It's ironoc the 300 is built in the old Renault plant.

[Bluecon]

Then every car mag will trot the car out as the new Japanese Corvette-beater... :rolleyes: Yeah, right.

You wonder how GM can build the best dollar for dollar sports car in the world and not carry it over to the rest of their lineup? Nobody can touch the Corvette. Not the Europeans nor the Japanese. The last remnant of American ingenuity and industrial might that built this great society? I hope not.

[PolarBear]

You wonder how GM can build the best dollar for dollar sports car in the world and not carry it over to the rest of their lineup? Nobody can touch the Corvette. Not the Europeans nor the Japanese. The last remnant of American ingenuity and industrial might that built this great society? I hope not.

 

Two words answer that question: "Dave Hill." One of the unique things about the Corvette is that is exists outside of the traditional, decision-by-committee mentality that pervades GM. The C5 (5th gen) Corvette shouldn't have existed at all. Dave absconded with some R&D money tagged for other purposes and poured it, along with the teams heart and soul, into the C5, instead of soldiering on with an antique and fundamentally flawed design, as GM wanted. By the time GM management was even aware of the cars existance, too much money had already been commmitted to stop it. Dave Hill and his team have something sadly lacking in Detroit and Dearborn- The Passion. A deep seated need to design and build the very best available, for the money (remember, price points are important, even to the Corvette). Bob lutz describes Dave best, in his speech given at Hill's retirement announcement:

 

"With every generation the Corvette has gotten better. The new one, the C6, is David's masterpiece. His absolute intent was to make it the best, and he wouldn't settle for anything less. He is the perfect expression of the product philosophy of "don't shoot to be competitive; shoot to be the best."

 

Dave was often disruptive, stubborn, unwilling to take direction, unwilling to take advice, unwilling to accept constraints or limits — in other words, the perfect man for the job. He forged ahead with the single-minded dedication to make the Corvette the best vehicle there is. And he achieved it. The Z06 today is hailed around the world as the biggest bargain in supercars ever. It equals all of the European supercars that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars or euros, making it an enormous bargain.

 

Dave has a huge following in the Corvette community. He stays in close contact with the owners and they love him because he's one of them — he's an absolute Corvette nut, and I mean that in the best possible sense."

 

Somehow, there's a lesson here to be learned.

[kevinb120]

lastly, my general impression of nissan (especially lately) is that they are good at catering to the hot trendy crowd, which means you get an initial bang, then things slow down dramatically.

 

That is nissan defined. And to add there is too much style giving up Nissan's once stellar substance. Especially in materials quality, which is in the toilet. Hummer also comes to mind.

[marc-o]

so your opinion on those cars is?

 

what does it matter? why do you want to know?

 

For the record, i think the 500 is a very strong entry in the full size segment. i'm not interested in full-size vehicles, neither are most people my age (<30), however it seems like a much more useful package for the majority than the panther platform. rwd v8 cars have their advantages, but the 500 is much more suited to the current reality... that said it's a limited market.

The triplets is a mixed bag... the mercury (like how i feel about all mercury cars) is superfluous and unnecessary... a waste of ressources that dilutes the sales of the stronger vehicles (the fusion and zephyr).

The Fusion is a strong entry in the segment, its main disadvantage is the lack of a 4 cylinder (which could easily be brought from the Focus/Mazda3), and lack of power in top trim (to stand out, it's clearly competitive). That said, I think any limitations the Fusion has are due more to the perception of the Ford brand rather than the car itself...

The Zephyr is more of a mixed bag... I'm not personally fond of the front grille (I greatly prefer the mach3), I still dont get the impression it differentiates itself from the Fusion enough. The interior is nice though, I just think it should have pushed a bit farther into luxury...clearly it would have been more of a gamble for Ford, but I think it would have gone a ways to building Lincoln credibility. As it is, the Zephyr is in danger of becoming another LS, only better publicized.

 

satisfied?

[llog215]

The Fusion is a strong entry in the segment, its main disadvantage is the lack of a 4 cylinder (which could easily be brought from the Focus/Mazda3), and lack of power in top trim (to stand out, it's clearly competitive). That said, I think any limitations the Fusion has are due more to the perception of the Ford brand rather than the car itself...

The Zephyr is more of a mixed bag... I'm not personally fond of the front grille (I greatly prefer the mach3), I still dont get the impression it differentiates itself from the Fusion enough. The interior is nice though, I just think it should have pushed a bit farther into luxury...clearly it would have been more of a gamble for Ford, but I think it would have gone a ways to building Lincoln credibility. As it is, the Zephyr is in danger of becoming another LS, only better publicized.

 

satisfied?

 

Fusion is available with a 4 cyl.

 

The difference between Zephyr and LS is night and day. The LS couldn't command the price premium necessary to continue building it on a low volume platform. The Zephyr is priced much more agressively and being built on a much higher volume profit, which provides economies of scale. Bottom line is they don't need to sell nearly as many or for as high a price to turn a profit. Therefore, I think it will be a more successful product. Secondly, they've already announced the 3.5 will be offered for '07 so I'm hopeful that it won't be left without continuous updates.

[silvrsvt]

Fusion is available with a 4 cyl.

 

The difference between Zephyr and LS is night and day. The LS couldn't command the price premium necessary to continue building it on a low volume platform.

 

The biggest problem with the LS is that its shared with a platform that its starting price is $45K, where as the LS starts at 39K and is heavly discounted...you can make a cheaper platform luxurious, but you can't take an expesive platform and make it cheap.

[one2gamble]

Nissan is about to make the same mistake with their upcoming 450Z that Toyota did with their Supra. The Supra was a terrific performance car but was overpriced about $10k. The new 450Z will have a 4.5L V8 and 430hp but will cost $50k-$55k. It makes the Shelby GT500 look like a bargain.

 

 

Nissan already made that mistake remember....The 300zx TT

 

The 350z really would be a great car if its quality issues were addressed properly.

[kevinb120]

The biggest problem with the LS is that its shared with a platform that its starting price is $45K, where as the LS starts at 39K and is heavly discounted...you can make a cheaper platform luxurious, but you can't take an expesive platform and make it cheap.

 

The LS(and Tbird) also missed the interior design revolution in Ford. They just never spent any money to change it either. They could 'save' the car if they wanted to with the effort they've been putting into the newest vehicles. Its so new school in platform thinking with old-school interior quality. If they gave it another go they could get it 'right', but I guess the business case just isn't in its favor.

 

It just seems to me that Ford/Lincoln is confused as to wether go the CD3 route, or to upgrade the S197 into an IRS sedan(which makes more sense to me, but what do I know), Or do one of each. I think they should do something with both. The problem with the DEW is any high performance engines are all from the expensive end of Ford due to size constraints. It must be tough working for Lincoln right now.