Furious1Auto Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Go find an engine fairy to wave his magic wand and make 500,000 3.5L engines appear out of thin air and it will be a piece of cake. If it was that easy to do it would have been done already. I'd prefer to brag that my I-4 has more horse than a 3.5 weighs less and gets better fuel mileage over buying the bigger engine. Hell I saw a Dodge Neon SRT-4 dyno 308 HP with stock injectors and a wide band 02 sensor, of coarse it had an upgraded 3"exhaust, cold air intake, and a stand alone fuel management system. Before that I had no love for neons but I'll be damned if thats not a respectable 4 banger! In the tuner world the SRT-4 is billed as the best bang for your buck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 If they put the 3.5 in the Fusion, then people would have no reason to pay $30,000 for a Fusion clone, the MkZ. Would be the same situation as the Fusion > Zephyr the first year they were out. I really don't think the same engine hurt sales of the Zephyr so much as NOT having the 3.5 now is hurting the Fusion. In another year the 3.7 should be ready for the MKZ anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 That is no excuse. It takes almost the same time to build two machines then it does one. With all the spare capacity Ford has at it's engine plants, they could have 500,000 easy. But would they make any money on them? Comparing Ford to Honda and Toyota will never save them. Ford needs to do MORE than Honda and Toyota to succeed. Playing catch-up and doing it even won't do a thing for them. Do you really think if Ford comes out with a new car every 3-4 years thats going to do anything for them besides piss money away? The avg car buyer isn't going to notice (besides if it has recalls or crappy reliability) and the Fanboi won't ever be happy because they'll always complain that its lacking in something, no matter how trivial it really is. Doing major changes every year isn't a magic bullet to fix Ford... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 But would they make any money on them? Do you really think if Ford comes out with a new car every 3-4 years thats going to do anything for them besides piss money away? The avg car buyer isn't going to notice (besides if it has recalls or crappy reliability) and the Fanboi won't ever be happy because they'll always complain that its lacking in something, no matter how trivial it really is. Doing major changes every year isn't a magic bullet to fix Ford... Changing up sheet metal a bit isn't "major" by any means. Most sheet metal is altered on even the slightest of refreshes anyway -- a slight change to tail light shape requires new decklid and rear fender stampings -- different headlights require a new hood and front fenders. All that really leaves to give the car a drastically different look are new door stampings, which surely aren't the most expensive part of a redesign. I'm in no way advocating a ground-up redesign every 4 years, but slapping a new character line here and there on an existing shape every 3 model years or so is certainly manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 That is no excuse. It takes almost the same time to build two machines then it does one. With all the spare capacity Ford has at it's engine plants, they could have 500,000 easy. You can make them at home Mr. I get paid 70 bucks per hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 That is no excuse. It takes almost the same time to build two machines then it does one. With all the spare capacity Ford has at it's engine plants, they could have 500,000 easy. But, does it have the tooling available to install in those plants? And budgets to pay the workers? Like you said, I doubt bigger engine means more expensive to build. I can't see the logic there - it's all metal parts fabricated into an engine. However, I am unsure about killing the 3.0 and putting the 3.5 in everywhere. What other cars does that 3.0 power ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Do you honestly think the 3.5 costs that much more than the 3.0 to produce? Yes it costs more for the metal when your building a 3.5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 You are an idiot, and that statement proves it. Do we get to vote on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 However, I am unsure about killing the 3.0 and putting the 3.5 in everywhere. What other cars does that 3.0 power ? 3.0 is only used now in the Ranger, Fusion, Milan, Escape, and Mariner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 The Ranger uses the Vulcan not the Duratec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 You are an idiot, and that statement proves it. It's not my fault you're such a big target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) It's not my fault you're such a big target. Pioneer a target, why because he's an infidel? Edited August 21, 2007 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Pioneer a target, why because he's an infidel? Nah, the only infidel targets I target are dotheads. Do you have a dot on your forehead? Or a bRRRRoken accent? Edited August 21, 2007 by LincolnFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meelaan Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 http://jalopnik.com/cars/spy-photos/2009-f...mule-289165.php The 09 Mule is interesting - it has the new grille, and probably bumper, but old headlights and hood ... I guess Ford just defined new minimalism in the term "cooling mule" Igor Can anyone tell me what exactly is "new" about the grille here? As if the Hybrid would look any different from the regular gas vehicle? The Escape Hybrid doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Do you honestly think the 3.5 costs that much more than the 3.0 to produce? No it doesn't put just throwing them in any ole plant to build them is going to cost money for new tooling, line set up, training etc etc...its not like they can shut down all the plants making 3.0L engines and start building 3.5L engines in 30 days or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 No it doesn't put just throwing them in any ole plant to build them is going to cost money for new tooling, line set up, training etc etc...its not like they can shut down all the plants making 3.0L engines and start building 3.5L engines in 30 days or less Why not? It didn't take much longer than that to get the first 3.5 line up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Why not? It didn't take much longer than that to get the first 3.5 line up. What are you going to do during that time that you need engines in cars/trucks you need to build? build a bunch of cars without engines? its not like flipping on a light switch..it just doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 What are you going to do during that time that you need engines in cars/trucks you need to build? build a bunch of cars without engines? its not like flipping on a light switch..it just doesn't work that way. Ford has the capacity to build a hell of a lot more 3.0's than they currently are. You simply ramp up production on 3.0's beyond what you'll need for a few months and live off the extra inventory while you make the changeover. It's not a new concept. It's how they've been doing changeovers for the past 100 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shllshck Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 I'd like to see Ford pump out a lot more 3.5s and soon to be 3.7s to replace the old Duratec 30. I do think Ford could easily supply enough Duratec 35s for the Fusion and Milan now but at a cost of leaving their newer and future lineups short. (MKX, Edge, Flex, MKS, Taurus, Taurus X). Right now Ford seems to be doing quite well in the CUV market. They need the more powerful engines there to grab marketshare where their rivals don't have a foothold yet. I think Ford looks at the mid-sized sedan market and just doesn't feel they can truely compete on the level (in terms of sales numbers) with Accord and Camry or just aren't committed to spending what is necessary to be class leading in this segment. With limited resources, Ford is gambling on the CUV market as oppose to trying to slug it out against the well-entrenched Camcords. Ford isn't exactly giving up on this segment, but rather then throw a lot of its resources to be the leader in this segment, they are just hoping to be spend enough and stay midpack. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Well according to BlueII the 3.5 will be coming to the Fusion in fall 2008, guess this is moot point now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Well according to BlueII the 3.5 will be coming to the Fusion in fall 2008, guess this is moot point now... I don't recall him ever saying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) I don't recall him ever saying that. Here you go 3.5 will go in Fusion fall 08. 3.0 PIP will be a scaled back program and go away when 3.5 is in full capacity. I-4 is FOE. Edited August 23, 2007 by White99GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Here you go Was about to come back and edit it. I saw his post in the other thread. I usually read the forums from bottom to top for some reason. :stats: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted August 23, 2007 Author Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) Was about to come back and edit it. I saw his post in the other thread. I usually read the forums from bottom to top for some reason. :stats: can you imagine the lineup? 200hp 2.5l I4 (21/30) 245hp 3.0l V6 (20/30) 265hp 3.5l V6 (19/28) 270hp Twin Force 2.5l I4 (20/30) Hybrid .. (33/34) (all mileage numbers are my guesses) I must say this might just make some competitors blush - Aura? Malibu? Sonata? Camry? If the styling is done well and interior is improved - we will have a very good finish of the first gen, and solid foundation for even better Gen-2 Igor Edited August 23, 2007 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White99GT Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 can you imagine the lineup? 200hp 2.5l I4 245hp 3.0l V6 265hp 3.6l V6 270hp Twin Force 2.5l I4 Hybrid .. The Twin Force 2.5L better make close to if not 300 hp to make it worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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