Ford Cutting Dealerships Faster Than Expected

[Deanh]

We should all be proud to be paying for your wife's breast augmentation and your penis elongation and hair implants. We should all raise our voices and praise you for the opportunity to pay thousand-dollar markups. We should revel in the glory of the extra sealant you sell for the paint, and the fabric guard, and that most thrifty of bargains, the pre-paid scheduled maintenance plan. One friend personally thanks you for the extended warranty you sold him, which you kindly sacrificed with only a 100% markup. And the financing! Another friend who is going through bankruptcy sent a thank you card for her 28% loan for the car she needs to keep her job.

 

We love you, O Glorious Overlord, my Dealer!

learn to say no Noah....or maybe sign up for spendaholics anonymous.....constraint and self control are ones own issues NOT the dealer....you "DONT" HAVE to buy the car Noah......and paint sealent/ fabric guard are pre-historic up-sells....and once again...the customer has the choice....come on guys, i'm not backing dealers as a hole...but this diatribe is way too easy to counter...

[Deanh]

Deanh:

 

Kind of disingenuous on the 'no' thing. Your sleazy sales men never take 'no' for an answer.

 

I saw an older middle-aged couple reduced to begging for permission to leave the office of a particularly shady rep in a particularly shady dealership in a small town near here. I was appalled. He was standing between them and the door, informing them that if they left now, they would probably never get such a good deal on a car again.

Richard..always took you as being above name-calling and rash generalizations barring our friend PC.....if as you blanket...the word sleazy...does that mean we should title buyers as "grinds"or tightwads?????....in the situation you witnessed, obviously one of dis-taste and a situation that doesn't sit well with me...customer still had legs.....and that situation is extreme at the best.......

[Deanh]

We should all be proud to be paying for your wife's breast augmentation and your penis elongation and hair implants. We should all raise our voices and praise you for the opportunity to pay thousand-dollar markups. We should revel in the glory of the extra sealant you sell for the paint, and the fabric guard, and that most thrifty of bargains, the pre-paid scheduled maintenance plan. One friend personally thanks you for the extended warranty you sold him, which you kindly sacrificed with only a 100% markup. And the financing! Another friend who is going through bankruptcy sent a thank you card for her 28% loan for the car she needs to keep her job.

 

We love you, O Glorious Overlord, my Dealer!

sidebar Noah...this is a business irrespective of WHAT you know, it is WHO you know....a car transaction can take 15 minutes with the right person, a phone call, a fax and its done......most of my business is done this way...piece of cake....and i sign them up myself so they do not have to go thru the F&I fiasco....a big thumbs up in sales is conveinience and time savings....

Edited September 17, 2007 by Deanh

[RichardJensen]

Dean: It is -not- extreme. Not for this dealership.

 

This DP has a reputation of having his sales reps crawl the lots and verbally coerce 'victims' into offices, where they are instructed to keep them there at all costs.

 

And as far as calling people that do sleazy things sleazy, I don't think that's name calling. Not all sales reps are sleazy. Just the sleazy ones.

 

Most people have a certain built-in conflict avoidance threshold. We don't like to pick fights, start fights, or be disagreeable. Sleazy salesmen in every line of work capitalize on this. They make themselves objectionable enough to con people into purchases, without being so objectionable that people walk out.

 

Yes, the people in this scenario could have walked out. But why, then, in the famous Milgram shock experiment, did normally conscientious people obey orders to administer what they thought were fatal shocks to other people? Conflict avoidance.

 

You cannot excuse the abominable conduct of either that sale rep or Stanley Milgram by saying, "people had a choice."

Edited September 17, 2007 by RichardJensen

[Deanh]

Dean: It is -not- extreme. Not for this dealership.

 

This DP has a reputation of having his sales reps crawl the lots and verbally coerce 'victims' into offices, where they are instructed to keep them there at all costs.

 

And as far as calling people that do sleazy things sleazy, I don't think that's name calling. Not all sales reps are sleazy. Just the sleazy ones.

 

Most people have a certain built-in conflict avoidance threshold. We don't like to pick fights, start fights, or be disagreeable. Sleazy salesmen in every line of work capitalize on this. They make themselves objectionable enough to con people into purchases, without being so objectionable that people walk out.

 

Yes, the people in this scenario could have walked out. But why, then, in the famous Milgram shock experiment, did normally conscientious people obey orders to administer what they thought were fatal shocks to other people? Conflict avoidance.

 

You cannot excuse the abominable conduct of either that sale rep or Stanley Milgram by saying, "people had a choice."

beleive me Rich...i do not condone these practices in the slightest...I just don't sit still when being accused of being in the same boat by ignorant people that do not know me from Adam...that and people harping on about mop and glow, glass etching yadda yadda....if they are stupid enough NOT to have the ball$ to say no thankyou then they need to be held accountable for their OWN actions...but to some it is ALWAYS the dealers fault....no, some aren't angels...but for every horror story about a dealer there is one about a customer....

[Noah Harbinger]

sidebar Noah...this is a business irrespective of WHAT you know, it is WHO you know....a car transaction can take 15 minutes with the right person, a phone call, a fax and its done......most of my business is done this way...piece of cake....and i sign them up myself so they do noy have to go thru the F&I fiasco....a bog thumbs up in sales is conveinience and time savings....

 

Because most of your business is Fleet, right? Probably you're too busy calling customers Grinders and Tightwads (hey you said it) to notice that your salesmen are molesting your customers like an old man in the park.

[RichardJensen]

Do not underestimate the advantage that sleazy sales reps have over unwitting customers, as in,

 

"I'm sorry, we already put the fabric sealant on that car. If you want this car, you have to buy that."

 

To be perfectly frank, Dean, you are suggesting that being rude and calling someone a liar are acceptable negotiating techniques.

 

I disagree. I think that any time you put someone into the position where they have to do things that make them very uncomfortable in order to avoid being ripped off, you've crossed a line.

 

You can't pin this on the customer, "He didn't have the stones to say 'screw you' and walk out." If it comes to that, it's all on the dealer, IMO.

 

--granted--

 

The sales process is -always- uncomfortable. Making people uncomfortable with their current situation is part of the sales process.

 

But there are limits.

[Deanh]

Because most of your business is Fleet, right? Probably you're too busy calling customers Grinders and Tightwads (hey you said it) to notice that your salesmen are molesting your customers like an old man in the park.

Noah get your head out of your a$$....if every transaction at a dealership that you have paerticipated in is along those lines then perhaps YOU may be partly responsible....no molestation here that I have seen, some "battles" yes from the retail side, right or wrong I still see RIDICULOUS offers on merchandize aka 350 a month on 50k vehicles...please realise there is ANOTHER side that is all i am trying to point out, absolutely NOTHING personal...but I do enjoy so much being insulted by some posters. Lot of bitter people out there that feel ripped because their "350" a month didn't happen. And yes I do fleet, but a majority is termed "fleet-tail'.....fot those that DO NOT want to dog and pony........customers are thru referall, phone calls and previous business....

[Deanh]

Because most of your business is Fleet, right? Probably you're too busy calling customers Grinders and Tightwads (hey you said it) to notice that your salesmen are molesting your customers like an old man in the park.

no i did not call all customers Tightwads and Grinders...re-read Noah.....it was a reaction to being blanketed and the question was if we are catagorized does that mean we should re-ciprocate......

Edited September 17, 2007 by Deanh

[Deanh]

Do not underestimate the advantage that sleazy sales reps have over unwitting customers, as in,

 

"I'm sorry, we already put the fabric sealant on that car. If you want this car, you have to buy that."

 

To be perfectly frank, Dean, you are suggesting that being rude and calling someone a liar are acceptable negotiating techniques.

 

I disagree. I think that any time you put someone into the position where they have to do things that make them very uncomfortable in order to avoid being ripped off, you've crossed a line.

 

You can't pin this on the customer, "He didn't have the stones to say 'screw you' and walk out." If it comes to that, it's all on the dealer, IMO.

 

--granted--

 

The sales process is -always- uncomfortable. Making people uncomfortable with their current situation is part of the sales process.

 

But there are limits.

no it is not always comfortable....like I said it is WHO...not WHAT you know.......and i have NEVER suggested being rude etc is an acceptable negotiating technique...wher ethe hell did that come from Rich? sheesh, if thats how it was interpreted come back from left field .....run forest Run....

[RichardJensen]

no it is not always comfortable....like I said it is WHO...not WHAT you know.......and i have NEVER suggested being rude etc is an acceptable negotiating technique...wher ethe hell did that come from Rich? sheesh, if thats how it was interpreted come back from left field .....run forest Run....

"if they are stupid enough NOT to have the ball$ to say no thankyou"

 

See. When 'no thank you' is responded to with, "Well, I'm afraid we've already chip-sealed that model. We do that with all our cars here. Now it's a great product and -yadda yadda yadda-"

 

You have to either buy the product, walk out, or accuse the sales rep of lying.

 

Say you get up to leave, the sales rep then says, "Are you going to let something as small as this stop you from buying this great car at a great price?"

 

You say, "Yes, I am."

 

Sales rep says, "Well, I'd like you to reconsider and here's why: We're overstocked on this model right now. We can offer you a great price because, frankly, we need to get rid of these things. The sales manager wants to make this deal happen. I want to make this deal happen, and I know you want to make this deal happen, now let's sit down and see if we can't work something out."

 

You say, "No, I'd really rather leave."

 

Sales rep says, "Are you sure? This is a rare opportunity. The Belchfire 6 is a good car, and I know that we've offered you well above book on your trade-in. If you leave now, I don't think you'll be able to get this good a deal."

 

You say, "No. I don't want to waste any more of your time."

 

Sales rep says, "It's no problem at all. This is what I get paid to do. Sit down. Let me get you some coffee and let's go back at this."

 

And on it goes. Sales rep will have a response for -ANY- 'no' other than you ignoring him and walking right out the door. Few people have the gall to do that...

[Deanh]

"if they are stupid enough NOT to have the ball$ to say no thankyou"

 

See. When 'no thank you' is responded to with, "Well, I'm afraid we've already chip-sealed that model. We do that with all our cars here. Now it's a great product and -yadda yadda yadda-"

 

You have to either buy the product, walk out, or accuse the sales rep of lying.

 

Say you get up to leave, the sales rep then says, "Are you going to let something as small as this stop you from buying this great car at a great price?"

 

You say, "Yes, I am."

 

Sales rep says, "Well, I'd like you to reconsider and here's why: We're overstocked on this model right now. We can offer you a great price because, frankly, we need to get rid of these things. The sales manager wants to make this deal happen. I want to make this deal happen, and I know you want to make this deal happen, now let's sit down and see if we can't work something out."

 

You say, "No, I'd really rather leave."

 

Sales rep says, "Are you sure? This is a rare opportunity. The Belchfire 6 is a good car, and I know that we've offered you well above book on your trade-in. If you leave now, I don't think you'll be able to get this good a deal."

 

You say, "No. I don't want to waste any more of your time."

 

Sales rep says, "It's no problem at all. This is what I get paid to do. Sit down. Let me get you some coffee and let's go back at this."

 

And on it goes. Sales rep will have a response for -ANY- 'no' other than you ignoring him and walking right out the door. Few people have the gall to do that...

havent seen those BS tactics in years Rich...those are old school...REAL OLD school, probably still happens, perhaps i am too removed from the front line but I don't see it....and like i said, mop and glo/ polyseal/ etch a glass are dodo's...dead and gone, at least here, our adds consist of nothing more than alarms, gap insurance ( which is capped, and FORD extended warraties....thats it...all irtems not pre-added OR that are removable...thus my statement 'just say NO"....easy....sounds like you guys live in a different world...no wonder the hostility........

[Deanh]

"if they are stupid enough NOT to have the ball$ to say no thankyou"

 

See. When 'no thank you' is responded to with, "Well, I'm afraid we've already chip-sealed that model. We do that with all our cars here. Now it's a great product and -yadda yadda yadda-"

 

You have to either buy the product, walk out, or accuse the sales rep of lying.

 

Say you get up to leave, the sales rep then says, "Are you going to let something as small as this stop you from buying this great car at a great price?"

 

You say, "Yes, I am."

 

Sales rep says, "Well, I'd like you to reconsider and here's why: We're overstocked on this model right now. We can offer you a great price because, frankly, we need to get rid of these things. The sales manager wants to make this deal happen. I want to make this deal happen, and I know you want to make this deal happen, now let's sit down and see if we can't work something out."

 

You say, "No, I'd really rather leave."

 

Sales rep says, "Are you sure? This is a rare opportunity. The Belchfire 6 is a good car, and I know that we've offered you well above book on your trade-in. If you leave now, I don't think you'll be able to get this good a deal."

 

You say, "No. I don't want to waste any more of your time."

 

Sales rep says, "It's no problem at all. This is what I get paid to do. Sit down. Let me get you some coffee and let's go back at this."

 

And on it goes. Sales rep will have a response for -ANY- 'no' other than you ignoring him and walking right out the door. Few people have the gall to do that...

oh...and the "ball$" comment was directed at the guys that seem to have the ability to say no to the payments if they consider unacceptable...sorry i should have clarified.....

[Pioneer]

The car negotiation scene from Fargo is a classic!

[RichardJensen]

sounds like you guys live in a different world...no wonder the hostility........

Yeah. We do. It's a world of PHDs (Papa Had a Dealership), and extremely retrograde sales practices. On this side of the state, apart from the Rydell dealerships in the area (you know the Rydell group?), there is a grand total of one car dealership that I would consider doing business with.

 

Noah Harbinger, OTOH, is also in the San Diego area.

[TomServo92]

The car negotiation scene from Fargo is a classic!

 

I watched that a couple of weeks ago! It is classic!

 

I've mentioned here before that I've seen my share of shameless tactics by car dealerships. I usually put those dealerships on my "no visit" list. I have found an excellent dealership that I've used for my past two new vehicle purchases. They're up front and honest and do every they can to make sure I'm happy with my deal. They're in a small town and I'm afraid they'll be one of the casualties of the dealership down-sizing.

[RichardJensen]

Ford like their 'select' dealers: The small town dealers Cisco Codina calls Ford's 'secret weapon.'

 

It's a welcome change from the way things were 8 years ago or so.

 

Also, now that I think of it, there are three other dealerships I'd do business with. Two new franchise dealers and one used-only dealership.

[TomServo92]

Ford like their 'select' dealers: The small town dealers Cisco Codina calls Ford's 'secret weapon.'

 

It's a welcome change from the way things were 8 years ago or so.

 

Also, now that I think of it, there are three other dealerships I'd do business with. Two new franchise dealers and one used-only dealership.

 

This one does a pretty fair amount of business. Being that they are primarily "in the country", they move alot of trucks but cars don't sit on lots very long either. They're also more than willing to find what you want at another dealership instead trying to push something already in their inventory.

[Deanh]

Yeah. We do. It's a world of PHDs (Papa Had a Dealership), and extremely retrograde sales practices. On this side of the state, apart from the Rydell dealerships in the area (you know the Rydell group?), there is a grand total of one car dealership that I would consider doing business with.

 

Noah Harbinger, OTOH, is also in the San Diego area.

I would be very surprized if current San Diego dealers practice the caveman like( Gieco? ) practices people speak of in this thread....business is way too competitive and with the info available on the net one can educate ones self to approxiamately what is the median prices paid for certain items on the street....however perhaps some are loss leader hunters walking in with guns drawn and the attitude that signals "Game On"ie I WANT IT IN BLACK NOT THAT ONE, and I WANT A . CD THROWN IN......... THAT scenario is usually what pre-empts the circumstances that posters seem to gleefully comment on so often...bottom line ...if that loss leader gleans your fancy you should EXPECT the dealer to make up part of that loss....I hate the practice personally, and blame dealers such as Ken Grody for pre-conditioning hostile customers......

[ironhorse]

Deanh, what these guys know about really running a new car dealership or the automobile buisness in general you could put in a thimble. They couldn't make a living selling cars if their life depended on it let alone operating a whole dealership.

 

There is a lot of pie-in-the-sky opinions about car dealers and the retail side of the business...none of which are worth a plug nickel. Most wouldn't know a good deal if it bit them in the ass.

[Deanh]

Deanh, what these guys know about really running a new car dealership or the automobile buisness in general you could put in a thimble. They couldn't make a living selling cars if their life depended on it let alone operating a whole dealership.

 

There is a lot of pie-in-the-sky opinions about car dealers and the retail side of the business...none of which are worth a plug nickel. Most wouldn't know a good deal if it bit them in the ass.

funny.....bet you light a fire PS style with that response......people can throw constant rocks...lesse the reaction when the shoe is on the other foot...LOL! Whilst I don't condone some business ethics practiced by certain dealers I just wissh yo=yos didn't have tunnel vision when making sweeping comments....it underlines my "people are sometimes WAy to self absorbed for their own good" comments....their one side and one side only mentality as such....

Edited September 17, 2007 by Deanh

[ironhorse]

funny.....bet you light a fire PS style with that response......people can throw constant rocks...lesse the reaction when the shoe is on the other foot...LOL! Whilst I don't condone some business ethics practiced by certain dealers I just wissh yo=yos didn't have tunnel vision when making sweeping comments....it underlines my "people are sometimes WAy to self absorbed for their own good" comments....their one side and one side only mentality as such....

 

The blanket statements is what is so funny...Deanh,you point out so well that anger is mostly out of frustration because they feel they were taken adantage of by the big bad boogie-man car dealer.

[Deanh]

The blanket statements is what is so funny...Deanh,you point out so well that anger is mostly out of frustration because they feel they were taken adantage of by the big bad boogie-man car dealer.

sometimes and I say SOMETIMES i think the reactions are similar to a screaming child standing in a corner throwing a tantrum because he/ she didn't get their OWN way.....ie...the dealer wouldn't sell me the other car that I REALLY wanted at the ad price...they were trying to "rip me off"...all dealers MUST be the same....ARRRRRRG!! or the classic....they wanted over window on the GT500.....THEIVES!

[RichardJensen]

You can make money without applying the 'royal screw' to every gemoke that walks in the door.

 

And I don't know everything about running a car dealership, but I know my front end from my back end, reserves, holdbacks, and how to calculate leases, loans, and the formulas for reserves and hold backs. I know Ford & GM have odd-ball formulas for leases, and Ford has an odd formula for reserve calculation.

 

I'm not as wet behind the ears as you might suspect.

[ironhorse]

You can make money without applying the 'royal screw' to every gemoke that walks in the door.

 

And I don't know everything about running a car dealership, but I know my front end from my back end, reserves, holdbacks, and how to calculate leases, loans, and the formulas for reserves and hold backs. I know Ford & GM have odd-ball formulas for leases, and Ford has an odd formula for reserve calculation.

 

I'm not as wet behind the ears as you might suspect.

 

 

What's the "royal screw"...as you call it? What's a fair average gross profit PNVR(per new vehicle retailed)? for a medium sized new car store selling say 75-100 new vehicles per month?