Article with a dose of reality

[Heywood]

November 29, 2005, 8:19 a.m.

 

Labor Pains

 

Detroit needs to play by market rules.

 

By Henry Payne

 

Detroit, Michigan — Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."

 

Grass cutting is a manufacturing job?

 

Miller's frank assessment of unsustainable labor contracts is a refreshing dose of candor in an industry that for too long has talked around union-labor costs in a way that is totally divorced from the realities of the U.S. labor market — much less the global labor market.

 

While America's national press has gleefully covered the front-office shenanigans of Republican fat cats like Enron's Ken Lay, it has entirely missed the disease eating away at the roots of American manufacturing: Behind the threat of strike, greedy Democratic union bosses have built an unsustainable entitlement-wage culture that is now crashing spectacularly in America's heartland, disrupting lives, and threatening some of America's biggest publicly traded companies.

 

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

 

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

 

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

 

For Delphi, this idled labor cost $400 million in the second quarter of this year alone. Facing similar numbers until the contract's end in 2007, Delphi took refuge in bankruptcy. "The jobs bank must be eliminated," says Miller. "Paying people not to work is just not sustainable."

 

As the auto companies have increased productivity through automation, the UAW calculated that jobs banks would make it too expensive for automakers to close plants and lay off workers. While that plan has worked, it has severely damaged the long-term viability of the industry — and by extension, future job creation. It also led to this week's GM bloodbath, as the company struggles to close a wage gap with American internationals (foreign automakers manufacturing in the U.S.) that now stands at $1319 per vehicle produced.

 

Simply put, Big Three autoworkers have been living in a fantasy world.

 

Statistics tell the tale. In his landmark study of the 2003 Big Five contract, Sean McLinden of the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) found that "in 1960, the UAW was 16 percent higher than the overall U.S. wage rate. . . . By 2003, the UAW average rate (with COLA) was 68-percent higher than the average manufacturing rate of $15.74 an hour."

 

McLinden notes that the contract reads as if autoworkers labor in a vacuum, without regard for market forces. "The workers involved will not lose their jobs at the company — they must be transferred to other facilities, bought out, voluntarily retired, or supported by protected status programs (jobs banks). Workers who refuse to transfer after layoff will... eventually be paid 100 percent of their straight pay. Indeed, UAW employment can only fall at the rate of natural retirement."

 

Furthermore, UAW members are guaranteed a traditional "30 years and out" provision, meaning that many retirees begin drawing full pensions in their early Fifties, burdening the Big Five with unrivaled legacy costs. Delphi, for example, shoulders $22 per worker-hour in legacy costs compared to as little as 25 cents for independent competitors like Leer and Johnson Controls.

 

Miller stresses that Delphi's competition for these jobs are not foreign laborers in China or Mexico — but workers right here in the Unites States. Given the huge productivity advantages of U.S. factories, relatively high-paid American autoworkers remain competitive with Mexican workers paid $3 an hour. CAR's McLinden confirms this. His analysis of independent suppliers (workers not covered by the fat Big Five contract) covering 19,379 UAW members in the U.S. found an "average wage of $15.76 an hour — remarkably close to the $15.77 per hour U.S. average manufacturing wage in 2003."

 

Miller does not deny that some labor-intensive auto-parts jobs (such as spark plugs manufacturing) must be moved abroad. But in production, where assembly, transportation, or quality are key factors (in the making of dashboards, for example), manufacturers will rely on U.S. workers — assuming they don't cost two to four times the market rate. Indeed, Japanese manufacturers and their suppliers have created 60,000 good-paying jobs for Americans.

 

The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.

 

UAW leaders are threatening strikes, and their Democratic allies are parroting tired slogans of government bailouts and trade protectionism. Michigan's Democratic governor Jennifer Granholm recently traveled to Washington, D.C. to stump for auto-import tariffs, while Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton demanded President Bush convene a "manufacturing summit" to examine a taxpayer bailout for the Big Five's "enormous legacy costs, including paying the health care and pensions of retirees."

 

These dinosaurs insist on turning back the clock, but Steve Miller understands that America's manufacturing future will only be lost if it loses sight of market economics: "We are in a market for human capital," he explains "If you pay too much for a particular class of employee, you go broke."

 

. — Henry Payne is a Detroit freelance writer and editorial cartoonist for the Detroit News.

[wildosvt]

My Dads neighbor is a retired "grass cutter" form GM. I'll tell you what, I never seen someone wear so much gear when they cut their grass!! You'd think he is about to play hockey or soemthin'.

[dark270]

November 29, 2005, 8:19 a.m.

 

Labor Pains

 

Detroit needs to play by market rules.

 

By Henry Payne

 

Detroit, Michigan — Massive job cuts at General Motors, America's largest carmaker — coupled with the bankruptcy of Delphi, America's biggest autoparts maker — have provoked predictable handwringing from liberal pundits who worry that America is "losing its manufacturing base." But the wrenching change now buffeting the auto industry defies the usual press formulas. Just listen to Steve Miller a turnaround specialist who is steering Delphi's restructuring process. He exploded the myth of America's "endangered" union manufacturing jobs at his October press conference announcing Delphi's move into Chapter 11: "We cannot continue to pay $65 an hour for someone to cut the grass and remain competitive."

 

Grass cutting is a manufacturing job?

 

Miller's frank assessment of unsustainable labor contracts is a refreshing dose of candor in an industry that for too long has talked around union-labor costs in a way that is totally divorced from the realities of the U.S. labor market — much less the global labor market.

 

While America's national press has gleefully covered the front-office shenanigans of Republican fat cats like Enron's Ken Lay, it has entirely missed the disease eating away at the roots of American manufacturing: Behind the threat of strike, greedy Democratic union bosses have built an unsustainable entitlement-wage culture that is now crashing spectacularly in America's heartland, disrupting lives, and threatening some of America's biggest publicly traded companies.

 

Take grass cutting. As defined by the current United Auto Worker contract negotiated with the "Big Five" (GM, Ford, Chrysler, and top parts makers Delphi and Visteon), an auto "production worker" is a job description that covers anything from mowing grass to cleaning the toilets. In the real world, these jobs would be outsourced to $8 an hour, no-benefit wage earners, but on Planet Big Five, these jobs get the same wages as any auto line-worker: an average $26 an hour ($60,000 a year) plus benefits that bring the company's total cost per worker to a staggering $65 an hour.

 

But at least the grass cutters are working for their pay. The UAW contract also guarantees that 12,000 autoworkers get full wage for doing nothing. On the heels of Miller's straight-talk, the Detroit News reported that "12,000 American autoworkers, instead of bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank." These aren't jobs. And they certainly aren't being "lost" to China.

 

"We just go in (to Ford's Michigan Truck Plant) and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," The News quoted one UAW worker as saying. "Otherwise, I've just sat."

 

For Delphi, this idled labor cost $400 million in the second quarter of this year alone. Facing similar numbers until the contract's end in 2007, Delphi took refuge in bankruptcy. "The jobs bank must be eliminated," says Miller. "Paying people not to work is just not sustainable."

 

As the auto companies have increased productivity through automation, the UAW calculated that jobs banks would make it too expensive for automakers to close plants and lay off workers. While that plan has worked, it has severely damaged the long-term viability of the industry — and by extension, future job creation. It also led to this week's GM bloodbath, as the company struggles to close a wage gap with American internationals (foreign automakers manufacturing in the U.S.) that now stands at $1319 per vehicle produced.

 

Simply put, Big Three autoworkers have been living in a fantasy world.

 

Statistics tell the tale. In his landmark study of the 2003 Big Five contract, Sean McLinden of the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) found that "in 1960, the UAW was 16 percent higher than the overall U.S. wage rate. . . . By 2003, the UAW average rate (with COLA) was 68-percent higher than the average manufacturing rate of $15.74 an hour."

 

McLinden notes that the contract reads as if autoworkers labor in a vacuum, without regard for market forces. "The workers involved will not lose their jobs at the company — they must be transferred to other facilities, bought out, voluntarily retired, or supported by protected status programs (jobs banks). Workers who refuse to transfer after layoff will... eventually be paid 100 percent of their straight pay. Indeed, UAW employment can only fall at the rate of natural retirement."

 

Furthermore, UAW members are guaranteed a traditional "30 years and out" provision, meaning that many retirees begin drawing full pensions in their early Fifties, burdening the Big Five with unrivaled legacy costs. Delphi, for example, shoulders $22 per worker-hour in legacy costs compared to as little as 25 cents for independent competitors like Leer and Johnson Controls.

 

Miller stresses that Delphi's competition for these jobs are not foreign laborers in China or Mexico — but workers right here in the Unites States. Given the huge productivity advantages of U.S. factories, relatively high-paid American autoworkers remain competitive with Mexican workers paid $3 an hour. CAR's McLinden confirms this. His analysis of independent suppliers (workers not covered by the fat Big Five contract) covering 19,379 UAW members in the U.S. found an "average wage of $15.76 an hour — remarkably close to the $15.77 per hour U.S. average manufacturing wage in 2003."

 

Miller does not deny that some labor-intensive auto-parts jobs (such as spark plugs manufacturing) must be moved abroad. But in production, where assembly, transportation, or quality are key factors (in the making of dashboards, for example), manufacturers will rely on U.S. workers — assuming they don't cost two to four times the market rate. Indeed, Japanese manufacturers and their suppliers have created 60,000 good-paying jobs for Americans.

 

The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.

 

UAW leaders are threatening strikes, and their Democratic allies are parroting tired slogans of government bailouts and trade protectionism. Michigan's Democratic governor Jennifer Granholm recently traveled to Washington, D.C. to stump for auto-import tariffs, while Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton demanded President Bush convene a "manufacturing summit" to examine a taxpayer bailout for the Big Five's "enormous legacy costs, including paying the health care and pensions of retirees."

 

These dinosaurs insist on turning back the clock, but Steve Miller understands that America's manufacturing future will only be lost if it loses sight of market economics: "We are in a market for human capital," he explains "If you pay too much for a particular class of employee, you go broke."

 

. — Henry Payne is a Detroit freelance writer and editorial cartoonist for the Detroit News.

 

 

where is your respect and dignity now??? you know the one you mentioned in GEN topic?

 

LOL

HEY pioneer stop by and see me!!!!

[Heywood]

You post at night, and you post during the day, so you must be doing some of it at work.

 

Maybe somebody should outsource your job, or at least put it under a magnifying glass, Troll.

 

 

Pioneer, if that's the best you can do, you might as well not waste the bandwidth. Why don't you comment on the substance of the article instead of attacking me?

 

Frankly, I think it's a pretty harsh assessment. Do you agree? Or is it BS? I didn't know grass cutters and toilet cleaners fell under the UAW contract. Is this true??

Edited November 30, 2005 by Heywood

[Me]

Pioneer, if that's the best you can do, you might as well not waste the bandwidth. Why don't you comment on the substance of the article instead of attacking me?

 

Frankly, I think it's a pretty harsh assessment. Do you agree? Or is it BS? I didn't know grass cutters and toilet cleaners fell under the UAW contract. Is this true??

 

Heywood,

 

Honestly now..you know perfectly well, maybe you won't admit it, but you know that there isn't any substance to that article worth commenting on. Nothing to discuss. It's just more rediculous, vitriolic bullshit spewed by another clueless "writer" who has an axe to grind with organised labor and, it appears, with anyone who isn't in love with George Bush. The clown holds that nazi hired gun Miller up as some sort of messiah, when even Wall Street ANALysts (no fans of labor themselves) are critical of him. The purpose of that News garbage article is to get people all riled up, you knew that, and that's why, like a TROLL, you posted it here.

 

Don't post shit like this and then whine about people "attacking" you. Grow up.

[98shotoy11]

As far as I know it is written in the local on who will do the lawn care and snow removal. At our plant the cleaners lost those two jobs because they never did them. They werent heart browken about it either. Of course all that job classification stuff was written in the local agreement so it was set in "stone" I guess you could say.

 

Me personally, I would LOVE to be able to get outside in the summer and cut grass. Although not everyone likes doing yard work either. Cutting grass is like golf for me....it relieves stress B)

[Heywood]

So what if those classifications do. Since you are not a UAW member, is it any of your business?

 

 

Great line, have to remember that one. You sure can elevate the debate.

 

Since you don't know how to respond, I'll do it for you Pioneer. You guys rant and rant about bad press from the media, and how the media hate the unions, etc. This is just more of the same stuff you guys hate! This is the stuff that regular people read and say "Gee, those union slacker goons are making $103K for driving a forklift or cleaning toilets, but I'm paid $40K for teaching schoolchildren". To spell it out for you, Mr. Pioneer, this is the stuff that influences public opinion, and not in a good way for you guys. The question is, why isn't your union doing something about it? Why arn't YOU doing something about it, Pioneer? If it is so one-sided and inaccurate as Me suggested, why arn't you guys out there correcting the record? Could it be that the article is actually accurate and true, but you don't want to hear it or believe it?

 

 

The purpose of that News garbage article is to get people all riled up, you knew that, and that's why, like a TROLL, you posted it here.

 

Don't post shit like this and then whine about people "attacking" you. Grow up.

 

Actually, it presents one point of view. It riles you union folks up because you don't like to hear the truth. Tell me what you think is inaccurate or wrong about the article. So far, no one has cited any inaccuracies.

 

And yes, I post this shit just to piss you off and bitch-slap you out of your fantasy world. Union contract clauses and union work rules make for great comedy reading!

[electr]

Pioneer, if that's the best you can do, you might as well not waste the bandwidth. Why don't you comment on the substance of the article instead of attacking me?

 

Frankly, I think it's a pretty harsh assessment. Do you agree? Or is it BS? I didn't know grass cutters and toilet cleaners fell under the UAW contract. Is this true??

More of the same old "If I can't make a good middleclass living , why should you" mentality. Instead of fretting over how much U.A.W. workers make why don't they work to improve their own situation. Why they would take pleasure in this race to the bottom I don't know. By the way while I agree some of the mentioned compensation can be excessive, as usual the writer only tells part of the story. Example: The forklift operator with the six figure income. Do the math, this man is working 60 to 70 hours a week, autoworkers have access to alot of overtime, a six figure autoworker spends his whole life at work, the $26000 figure they quoted for comparison is based on 40 hours. Our base non overtime compensation does stand well above the average worker so why the spin to exaggerate. Well I guess we could follow in the footsteps of the railroads, teamsters, steelworkers, etc. etc..etc..... then maybe they would all be happy.

P.S. Yes grass cutter and toilet cleaners are U.A.W. workers.

[electr]

Great line, have to remember that one. You sure can elevate the debate.

 

Since you don't know how to respond, I'll do it for you Pioneer. You guys rant and rant about bad press from the media, and how the media hate the unions, etc. This is just more of the same stuff you guys hate! This is the stuff that regular people read and say "Gee, those union slacker goons are making $103K for driving a forklift or cleaning toilets, but I'm paid $40K for teaching schoolchildren". To spell it out for you, Mr. Pioneer, this is the stuff that influences public opinion, and not in a good way for you guys. The question is, why isn't your union doing something about it? Why arn't YOU doing something about it, Pioneer? If it is so one-sided and inaccurate as Me suggested, why arn't you guys out there correcting the record? Could it be that the article is actually accurate and true, but you don't want to hear it or believe it?

Actually, it presents one point of view. It riles you union folks up because you don't like to hear the truth. Tell me what you think is inaccurate or wrong about the article. So far, no one has cited any inaccuracies.

 

And yes, I post this shit just to piss you off and bitch-slap you out of your fantasy world. Union contract clauses and union work rules make for great comedy reading!

I would rather teach 40 hrs @ $40,000 w/ 3mo vaca, than work the line 60 to 70 hours per week for $103,000, And I have a feeling so would you. Teaching (and similar work) and working a production line ARE NOT THE SAME believe me. poor comparison choice Those people earn their money.

[DarkSilver]

More of the same old "If I can't make a good middleclass living , why should you" mentality. Instead of fretting over how much U.A.W. workers make why don't they work to improve their own situation. Why they would take pleasure in this race to the bottom I don't know. By the way while I agree some of the mentioned compensation can be excessive, as usual the writer only tells part of the story. Example: The forklift operator with the six figure income. Do the math, this man is working 60 to 70 hours a week, autoworkers have access to alot of overtime, a six figure autoworker spends his whole life at work, the $26000 figure they quoted for comparison is based on 40 hours. Our base non overtime compensation does stand well above the average worker so why the spin to exaggerate. Well I guess we could follow in the footsteps of the railroads, teamsters, steelworkers, etc. etc..etc..... then maybe they would all be happy.

P.S. Yes grass cutter and toilet cleaners are U.A.W. workers.

 

This may be a foolish question but why is there people working overtime when there are people basicly being paid not to work? This does not make sense. I am not picking on anyone just trying to understand why? does it cost money to get that person in gen to come in and work? or what?

[electr]

This may be a foolish question but why is there people working overtime when there are people basicly being paid not to work? This does not make sense. I am not picking on anyone just trying to understand why? does it cost money to get that person in gen to come in and work? or what?

Some plants are working alot of overtime while many are laying off, it all depends on what vehihicle your plant is building or what parts your plant makes. Example: Mustang plant vs an expedition plant. Another thing the big 3 use overtime much the same way the foreign transplants use temporary labor, for flexibility. Because of the benefit cost for hiring new workers it's cheaper to use overtime at time and a half. If the companies ever do get rid of the job banks you would probably see more workers take transfers to other plants. Also for some reason I do not understand many times right after a layoff management seems to up the use of overtime. I have also noticed a willingness by management to overstaff with regards to overtime. A superintendant with bring 15 people on a sunday when it's clear he only needs 8. He is probably afraid of budget cuts and then when he does need 15 he won't be able to get them. While I like overtime I have never worked for a company that waiste more money with overstaffing with reguards to overtime. There are people at my plant that just go home to sleep, they live here.

 

P.S. Toyota and many of the other transplants pay thier employees the same hourly rate and provide similar benefits as the big three, where is the outrage there? Once these plants have been here for thirty years they will be dealing with the same legacy cost, but then they won't have the same managment that we have.

[sailorjohn]

November 29, 2005, 8:19 a.m.

 

Labor Pains

 

Detroit needs to play by market rules.

 

By Henry Payne

 

. — Henry Payne is a Detroit freelance writer and editorial cartoonist for the Detroit News.

 

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Would take Pain seriously IF he were a halfway decent artist, but he is essentially a talentless right wing hack. Guess the Noise must be rewarding him for his years of diligent hate mongering, what surprises is the fact that he appears to be able to write a sentence longer than a typical caption. Ghost writer, maybe?

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[DarkSilver]

Some plants are working alot of overtime while many are laying off, it all depends on what vehihicle your plant is building or what parts your plant makes. Example: Mustang plant vs an expedition plant. Another thing the big 3 use overtime much the same way the foreign transplants use temporary labor, for flexibility. Because of the benefit cost for hiring new workers it's cheaper to use overtime at time and a half. If the companies ever do get rid of the job banks you would probably see more workers take transfers to other plants. Also for some reason I do not understand many times right after a layoff management seems to up the use of overtime. I have also noticed a willingness by management to overstaff with regards to overtime. A superintendant with bring 15 people on a sunday when it's clear he only needs 8. He is probably afraid of budget cuts and then when he does need 15 he won't be able to get them. While I like overtime I have never worked for a company that waiste more money with overstaffing with reguards to overtime. There are people at my plant that just go home to sleep, they live here.

 

P.S. Toyota and many of the other transplants pay thier employees the same hourly rate and provide similar benefits as the big three, where is the outrage there? Once these plants have been here for thirty years they will be dealing with the same legacy cost, but then they won't have the same managment that we have.

 

Does that mean that since there is so much overtime that there is no gen pool at your location? Also is the gen pool plant specific or is the gen pool for all the plants and people in gen can work at any plant?

It just seams that it would be better to have someone who is in gen working that having overtime. Sounds like a lack of cooperation with managment and plant.

[electr]

No one in the Gen where I work. But things have slowed down, worst since I've seen it in my 13 years w/ Ford, There are inverse or voluntary layoffs and we still see overtime. Overtime is where all the big money comes from with autoworkers. Skilled trades at an auto plant make less per hour than similar trades in construction in the large markets, but more than make up for it with overtime. "Dose of reality" six figure autoworkers put in the hours, lots of hours. Many have gotten use to this and are in for a budget shock if it ever stops.

[DarkSilver]

No one in the Gen where I work. But things have slowed down, worst since I've seen it in my 13 years w/ Ford, There are inverse or voluntary layoffs and we still see overtime. Overtime is where all the big money comes from with autoworkers. Skilled trades at an auto plant make less per hour than similar trades in construction in the large markets, but more than make up for it with overtime. "Dose of reality" six figure autoworkers put in the hours, lots of hours. Many have gotten use to this and are in for a budget shock if it ever stops.

I would guess a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. I expect there will be a lot of toys and vacation property up for sale in the future.

[dark270]

What dept/line? I'm working on the "rappers" right now, where #1 drive shaft line used to be.

 

OH okay..close by...line 3 driveshaft...U222

 

 

 

Pioneer, if that's the best you can do, you might as well not waste the bandwidth. Why don't you comment on the substance of the article instead of attacking me?

 

Frankly, I think it's a pretty harsh assessment. Do you agree? Or is it BS? I didn't know grass cutters and toilet cleaners fell under the UAW contract. Is this true??

 

 

how would you know this is true/untrue??? dont you work salaried...then you should know ..WTF...

 

more BULLSHIT!

[No1Eman]

November 29, 2005, 8:19 a.m.

 

Labor Pains

 

Detroit needs to play by market rules.

 

By Henry Payne

 

 

 

 

 

Statistics tell the tale. In his landmark study of the 2003 Big Five contract, Sean McLinden of the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) found that "in 1960, the UAW was 16 percent higher than the overall U.S. wage rate. . . . By 2003, the UAW average rate (with COLA) was 68-percent higher than the average manufacturing rate of $15.74 an hour."

 

.........

 

Furthermore, UAW members are guaranteed a traditional "30 years and out" provision, meaning that many retirees begin drawing full pensions in their early Fifties, burdening the Big Five with unrivaled legacy costs. Delphi, for example, shoulders $22 per worker-hour in legacy costs compared to as little as 25 cents for independent competitors like Leer and Johnson Controls.

 

Miller stresses that Delphi's competition for these jobs are not foreign laborers in China or Mexico — but workers right here in the Unites States. Given the huge productivity advantages of U.S. factories, relatively high-paid American autoworkers remain competitive with Mexican workers paid $3 an hour. CAR's McLinden confirms this. His analysis of independent suppliers (workers not covered by the fat Big Five contract) covering 19,379 UAW members in the U.S. found an "average wage of $15.76 an hour — remarkably close to the $15.77 per hour U.S. average manufacturing wage in 2003."

 

.............

 

 

The coming months will be painful for many American autoworkers. Accustomed to a certain lifestyle, they will see their wages cut in half, jeopardizing second homes, college tuitions, and car payments. One blue-collar Delphi worker interviewed by the Detroit News makes $103,000 a year operating a forklift and fears the consequences if his pay is drastically reduced. But many Americans will ask how a forklift operator felt entitled to a six-figure income in the first place (according to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average forklift operator wage in the U.S. is $26,000).

It is an opportune time for political leadership to step to the plate and speak with candor, but the signs are not encouraging.

 

UAW leaders are threatening strikes, and their Democratic allies are parroting tired slogans of government bailouts and trade protectionism. Michigan's Democratic governor Jennifer Granholm recently traveled to Washington, D.C. to stump for auto-import tariffs, while Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton demanded President Bush convene a "manufacturing summit" to examine a taxpayer bailout for the Big Five's "enormous legacy costs, including paying the health care and pensions of retirees."

 

These dinosaurs insist on turning back the clock, but Steve Miller understands that America's manufacturing future will only be lost if it loses sight of market economics: "We are in a market for human capital," he explains "If you pay too much for a particular class of employee, you go broke."

 

. — Henry Payne is a Detroit freelance writer and editorial cartoonist for the Detroit News.

 

 

These statements just serve as an example of what is wrong with what is going wrong in this country. The problem isn't that we make too much. The problem is that through the years people who aren't represented by unions have been getting squeezed. Prices go up, commodities go up. In order to control inflation, they squeeze us. If inflation goes up, it is harder to make money with money, because interest rates go up due to the shortened money supply. The problem stems from the fact, that no company is happy to make a product, and sell it, for a profit. They must contantly make it cheaper, in order to make their profit greater. In the 80s they wanted to use technology to make more with the same or less people. Now, they found that labor is cheaper in other countries than technology is here. This ass hole Payne would try to make you believe that we are over paid. Lets look at wages compared to inflationary pressures, and I think that we make less than we didn back in the 60s. Un unionized people make even less than we do. The rich have gotton richer, while the working person's wages have stagnated. Now, with all the overseas outsourcing, there is even more downward pressure on wages. As far as pensions...well, look at the stock market. it broke 10000 in 1997. It is still hovering between 10 and 11 thousand. That tells me that stocks have stagnated. Seeing as how the money that funds our pensions is invested in the stock market...gee...that money hasn't earned shit! Can it be possible that is why these "legacy" costs have become such an issue lately? Maybe these fuckers just need to invest the money better.

 

I really have to agree though that the uaw has to do something to promote a positive image of itself..er..us. Perhaps a national ad campaign. Publicized participation in some kind of community effort, stuff like that. If the union wanted to launch something like that, I would volunteer my time to it.

[dark270]

These statements just serve as an example of what is wrong with what is going wrong in this country. The problem isn't that we make too much. The problem is that through the years people who aren't represented by unions have been getting squeezed. Prices go up, commodities go up. In order to control inflation, they squeeze us. If inflation goes up, it is harder to make money with money, because interest rates go up due to the shortened money supply. The problem stems from the fact, that no company is happy to make a product, and sell it, for a profit. They must contantly make it cheaper, in order to make their profit greater. In the 80s they wanted to use technology to make more with the same or less people. Now, they found that labor is cheaper in other countries than technology is here. This ass hole Payne would try to make you believe that we are over paid. Lets look at wages compared to inflationary pressures, and I think that we make less than we didn back in the 60s. Un unionized people make even less than we do. The rich have gotton richer, while the working person's wages have stagnated. Now, with all the overseas outsourcing, there is even more downward pressure on wages. As far as pensions...well, look at the stock market. it broke 10000 in 1997. It is still hovering between 10 and 11 thousand. That tells me that stocks have stagnated. Seeing as how the money that funds our pensions is invested in the stock market...gee...that money hasn't earned shit! Can it be possible that is why these "legacy" costs have become such an issue lately? Maybe these fuckers just need to invest the money better.

 

I really have to agree though that the uaw has to do something to promote a positive image of itself..er..us. Perhaps a national ad campaign. Publicized participation in some kind of community effort, stuff like that. If the union wanted to launch something like that, I would volunteer my time to it.

 

 

EXCELLANT post, all truth....

[Litng1]

First off UAW workers are not over paid other people are underpaid. There is so much envy over how much UAW workers make it makes me sick.

I dont make 60K a year unless we get overtime and someone that makes a 100K in the UAW is working some serious overtime to do that.

People are quick to say someone else makes to much money for what they do.But if it was there job how would they feel.

 

 

No1Eman

Very good post.Wish more people understood this.

[cal50]

First off UAW workers are not over paid other people are underpaid. There is so much envy over how much UAW workers make it makes me sick.

 

I think some ARE overpaid. Now if you want to live at work and sleep at home that's your choice. I am referring to the people that want to work 7 days a week and mad if they don't. These are the same ones who stay in the system into there late 60's or 70's (age) and do not know anything else. There life IS work. A sad situation. Some can not afford to retire after many years of earning top wages and big profit sharing checks.

If these people earn MORE than educated (college) or skilled professions be it a policeman,firefighter,skilled trade, etc then it's hard to put it in perspective of the working public outside the auto industry. There are some rough jobs in production but there are many more "easy" ones also and most people do not think they should be paid the same. I would not call it "envy" over our wages. Most people get pissed off at ford employees when they read crap about some of the wages paid out to simple task jobs. Add that in with some idiots bragging about getting a paycheck for no work and it gets linked to the high cost of cars and it makes all of us look bad.

[dark270]

I think some ARE overpaid. Now if you want to live at work and sleep at home that's your choice. I am referring to the people that want to work 7 days a week and mad if they don't. These are the same ones who stay in the system into there late 60's or 70's (age) and do not know anything else. There life IS work. A sad situation. Some can not afford to retire after many years of earning top wages and big profit sharing checks.

If these people earn MORE than educated (college) or skilled professions be it a policeman,firefighter,skilled trade, etc then it's hard to put it in perspective of the working public outside the auto industry. There are some rough jobs in production but there are many more "easy" ones also and most people do not think they should be paid the same. I would not call it "envy" over our wages. Most people get pissed off at ford employees when they read crap about some of the wages paid out to simple task jobs. Add that in with some idiots bragging about getting a paycheck for no work and it gets linked to the high cost of cars and it makes all of us look bad.

HOPEFULLY i will get a TLO tommorrow..WOOHOO!!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[slapshot2]

HOPEFULLY i will get a TLO tommorrow..WOOHOO!!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Absolutely, that would give you more time to count all of that money you're raking in from that big online company of yours, maybe even have the cleaning people polish up that shrine to yourself in yor office, you know, the one where you keep all of you degrees? Not many people that could handle all of this commitment and still have time to type swear words into the computer. You are an impressive man!

[dark270]

Absolutely, that would give you more time to count all of that money you're raking in from that big online company of yours, maybe even have the cleaning people polish up that shrine to yourself in yor office, you know, the one where you keep all of you degrees? Not many people that could handle all of this commitment and still have time to type swear words into the computer. You are an impressive man!

 

 

you are so jealous....i knew it!!!! i told you before i have a degree and am working further on it....

also i sell crap on ebay that people like you buy and GIVE me money...so yeah LOL..i have other things going on.....DO YOU??? sounds like you are so worried about losing your job that you will attack ANYONE!

 

LOL whatever....i'm not worried!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[slapshot2]

you are so jealous....i knew it!!!! i told you before i have a degree and am working further on it....

also i sell crap on ebay that people like you buy and GIVE me money...so yeah LOL..i have other things going on.....DO YOU??? sounds like you are so worried about losing your job that you will attack ANYONE!

 

LOL whatever....i'm not worried!!!

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

I have had my MBA from a top business school since 2001. Not some online/mail order garbage. As for money, son, I have plenty. I have a small investment company that pays me very well in returns and my wife is a corporate V. P. I just don't feel the need to get on here and constantly tell everybody all about me, as you do. One can obtain many great things outside of these walls if the work hard, dream big and utilize all of the tools that our employment with Ford has made available to us. Ebay? Come on Dark one. Everybody and their brother sells stuff on ebay. Your chances of making any real money with this are slim. There are other ways however. Like it or not your attitude sucks. You should have a little more respect for a company that has given you so much. Yes, you are taking advantage of benefits that have been given to you as a result of collective bargaining, but to get on here in a public forum which is viewed my many people outside of our company, and talk down about the company and brag about the perceived advantage you are taking of the system, is wrong. The last thing we need is to embarass ourselves in the eyes of our customers, and you do that, whether or not you care to admit it. Begging for paid layoff lends credence to what people say about autoworkers being lazy and overpaid. Sure, it is nice to get some time off every now and again, I have a family too, but to wish for it all the time means quite simply that you are rooting against your plants success, and that is selfish, and wrong. A person with the intellectual fortitude that it takes to work through a Masters degree program is not the type that roots against corporate America and those that work within it. This is why I question your credentials, and implore you to prove me wrong. Where did you obtain your undergrad degree and what was your concentration? Where are you pursuing your Masters and your concentration in that program? Perhaps I could provide you with some insight that may be helpful to your studies. In the mean time, I really think that you should stop making fun of the companies compounding problems, and work to be a difference maker. Further more, constantly swearing at people makes you look really bad and insecure as well. It's childs play. You can have a difference of opinion with people without stooping to this level. Try it once. You may get more respect in this world.

[dark270]

I have had my MBA from a top business school since 2001. Not some online/mail order garbage. As for money, son, I have plenty. I have a small investment company that pays me very well in returns and my wife is a corporate V. P. I just don't feel the need to get on here and constantly tell everybody all about me, as you do. One can obtain many great things outside of these walls if the work hard, dream big and utilize all of the tools that our employment with Ford has made available to us. Ebay? Come on Dark one. Everybody and their brother sells stuff on ebay. Your chances of making any real money with this are slim. There are other ways however. Like it or not your attitude sucks. You should have a little more respect for a company that has given you so much. Yes, you are taking advantage of benefits that have been given to you as a result of collective bargaining, but to get on here in a public forum which is viewed my many people outside of our company, and talk down about the company and brag about the perceived advantage you are taking of the system, is wrong. The last thing we need is to embarass ourselves in the eyes of our customers, and you do that, whether or not you care to admit it. Begging for paid layoff lends credence to what people say about autoworkers being lazy and overpaid. Sure, it is nice to get some time off every now and again, I have a family too, but to wish for it all the time means quite simply that you are rooting against your plants success, and that is selfish, and wrong. A person with the intellectual fortitude that it takes to work through a Masters degree program is not the type that roots against corporate America and those that work within it. This is why I question your credentials, and implore you to prove me wrong. Where did you obtain your undergrad degree and what was your concentration? Where are you pursuing your Masters and your concentration in that program? Perhaps I could provide you with some insight that may be helpful to your studies. In the mean time, I really think that you should stop making fun of the companies compounding problems, and work to be a difference maker. Further more, constantlswearing at people makes you look really bad and insecure as well. It's childs play. You can have a difference of opinion with people without stooping to this level. Try it once. You may get more respect in this world.

 

 

first things first..i am not YOUR son.....second i have NEVER put down FORD...some of their management maybe...but never the company as a whole.....some of their products could be better...

 

also i dont WISH for a TLO all the time..just the last month and now...after jan. i dont need or want it...but then again YOU didn't ask...you just ASSUME ......how does a TLO mean i'm LAZY?

you'd be surprised but i dont feel i need to talk 'ALL about myself' on here..people like you assume what they want and question everything i say ANYWAY...another thing i dont need your insight..or want it and i am ENTITLED to my opinion about anything. just how am i making fun of the company i work for?

i've never made fun or light of that....again you are assuming or twisting words..

one last thing if i want to swear i will....dont care about your 'corporate' little world so, i wont prove myself to you also i dont need your respect