REAL TRUTH ABOUT CONTRACTS

[lepskilledtrades]

Everyone and I mean everyone should go to www.soldiersofsolidarity.com website and read what the real truth about the GM and Chrysler contracts are all about YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!!!

[Furious1Auto]

Everyone and I mean everyone should go to www.soldiersofsolidarity.com website and read what the real truth about the GM and Chrysler contracts are all about YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!!!

LINK

[level]

I undersatnd your upset with the Lima fiasco, but let's keep our shit real here, not point out links to a radical groups site that pushes their own agenda. No contract will ever be good in their eyes unless they write it, then they will say it's golden.

 

While they make some good points sometimes, they make bad points way too often.

 

Let's keep this shit real. real people and real opinions on these threads, not any political groups viewpoints.

[Dadzee]

I see no problem with a sight that leans far towards the workers end of things, albeit at times a bit over the line. What do you think we get from the company, and lately the Union? The corporate slant, in my opinion and not much else.

I feel some of the artticles and letters on the sight presently make a very valid point, and it is good to know of the decenting views of some of the Chrysler delegates and bargaining members.

 

We are at a crossroads in organised manufacturing labor, surrounded by a forest of public ill will, corporate greed, and and governmental hostility. At a time when we should be blazing a trail through all of this, I think we are actually planting more trees for those who follow, and wandering far from the path set long before us.

[wildosvt]

I undersatnd your upset with the Lima fiasco, but let's keep our shit real here, not point out links to a radical groups site that pushes their own agenda. No contract will ever be good in their eyes unless they write it, then they will say it's golden.

 

While they make some good points sometimes, they make bad points way too often.

 

Let's keep this shit real. real people and real opinions on these threads, not any political groups viewpoints.

 

I totally agree. With the way I read some of their print, It makes me think that they are anti-union.

 

Have you all seen the "Give it up Gettlefinger" shirts yet? I do NOT and will NOT wear one, What a fucked up message.

[Jimmy G]

You gotta admit, Shotwell has a way with words.

[TCAP'er]

I undersatnd your upset with the Lima fiasco, but let's keep our shit real here, not point out links to a radical groups site that pushes their own agenda. No contract will ever be good in their eyes unless they write it, then they will say it's golden.

 

While they make some good points sometimes, they make bad points way too often.

 

Let's keep this shit real. real people and real opinions on these threads, not any political groups viewpoints.

 

F@king one post wonder!!!

[level]

Apparently your claim to genius is the amount of time one spends typing his opinion, and not time spent reading others. Why don't you try to concentrate on "what" someone says, and not on their user profiles.

 

By the way, I looked up your profile, and you are a girls ass.

[sprinter]

I undersatnd your upset with the Lima fiasco, but let's keep our shit real here, not point out links to a radical groups site that pushes their own agenda. No contract will ever be good in their eyes unless they write it, then they will say it's golden.

 

While they make some good points sometimes, they make bad points way too often.

 

Let's keep this shit real. real people and real opinions on these threads, not any political groups viewpoints.

 

Seems to me these are the type of union members we need more of. Our previous brothers and sisters fought hard with some dying to have made this a strong union. But today it is a shell of its once strength. Many of its members are weak and apathetic about its future survival. You say give up those benefits so maybe the company will keep me working. I have seen it more than once that a company will get a major concession from the union and still turn around and shut the doors. I’m sure the executives have a good laugh all the way to the bank after they pull those stunts on us poor working stiffs. The pay cuts need to come from the top. These are the real assholes that have put this and several other companies in jeopardy. Some in the public cry that we make too much money compared to the Japs. Why don’t they look at the difference in the top managers salary between Ford and Toyota. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-1...-exec-pay_N.htm

 

I’ll vote for a benefit cut when the top tier drops theirs to the Asian counterparts.

[Hotlanta]

Seems to me these are the type of union members we need more of. Our previous brothers and sisters fought hard with some dying to have made this a strong union. But today it is a shell of its once strength. Many of its members are weak and apathetic about its future survival. You say give up those benefits so maybe the company will keep me working. I have seen it more than once that a company will get a major concession from the union and still turn around and shut the doors. I’m sure the executives have a good laugh all the way to the bank after they pull those stunts on us poor working stiffs. The pay cuts need to come from the top. These are the real assholes that have put this and several other companies in jeopardy. Some in the public cry that we make too much money compared to the Japs. Why don’t they look at the difference in the top managers salary between Ford and Toyota. http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-1...-exec-pay_N.htm

 

I’ll vote for a benefit cut when the top tier drops theirs to the Asian counterparts.

 

I agree! I'm proud to be a union member, but as union members, we have a responsibility to not only listen to what our leadership says, but also to read the contract and decide for ourselves. And if we disagree with the contract, then we should make it known by voting no. Putting blind faith in ANYONE can be a mistake. We've got brains, we can and SHOULD use them!

 

I haven't seen anything that "Soldiers of Solidarity" has put out there that has been a lie. It looks to me as if they are just trying to make sure that ALL the information gets put out for us to see, NOT just what the Union Leadership wants us to see. And I think it's a shame that our own leadership seems to be afraid to put ALL the information out there, instead of just what THEY want us to know.

 

And by-the-way - I agree - if GM, Ford and Chrysler all want us "grunts" on the same playing field pay-wise as Toyota - then let Mulally and the others bring down THEIR pay in line with Toyota's CEO's.

[wildosvt]

I haven't seen anything that "Soldiers of Solidarity" has put out there that has been a lie. It looks to me as if they are just trying to make sure that ALL the information gets put out for us to see, NOT just what the Union Leadership wants us to see. And I think it's a shame that our own leadership seems to be afraid to put ALL the information out there, instead of just what THEY want us to know.

 

But yet SOS (from what I have seen anyway) wants to doubt VEBA in every way shape and form because of Cat's failure. Why is it they tell only one part of the tale? What about the VEBA

s that have grown and actually work. CAT was severely underfunded and that was in 1998 before the stock market took a crap (9-11) amongst other things and run dry in 2004

 

"quote from the sparks"

This fund ran out in six years! Said one Caterpillar retiree, “God, did we get stuck ... Initially the VEBA worked OK, but it just got eaten up by the astronomical rise in medical insurance.”

 

Detroit Diesel's ran out in 12 years. Guess what happened next?

 

"Court Affirms Preliminary Injunction on Retiree Health Care Premium Contributions.

Benefits & Compensation Legal & Legislative Reporter; v41 no4 pp 8-9 Apr 2007; journal article

 

Availability : International Foundation of Employee Benefit Plans

Abstract : The parties in Wood et al. v. Detroit Diesel Corp. et al. had an agreement to jointly fund a voluntary employee benefit association trust to cover excess costs of retiree health benefits. When the trust funds ran out, the defendant company required premium contributions for continued coverage. The retirees claimed the benefits were vested for life at no cost to them. The district court issued an injunction preventing the defendant from ending the benefits. The Sixth Circuit Appeals Court relied on several pieces of evidence supporting the defendant's intent to provide vested health benefits and affirmed the injunction, finding the plaintiffs to have some likelihood of success with their claim."

 

Why doesnt SOS or Sparks point that out? Or any other news media outlet?

To me, Some of the information from SOS is skewed. And presented for promoting their point of view. But if your going to educate/inform someone, Do it right. There are two sides to a coin not just your side.

 

 

(Hotlanta, I am not directing this to you personally or as a flame. Just sharing my view of the SOS site in general. The "truth" if you will as I read it , As a PROUD union brother. Please do not be offended)

Edited October 20, 2007 by wildosvt

[wildosvt]

I agree! I'm proud to be a union member, but as union members, we have a responsibility to not only listen to what our leadership says, but also to read the contract and decide for ourselves. And if we disagree with the contract, then we should make it known by voting no. Putting blind faith in ANYONE can be a mistake. We've got brains, we can and SHOULD use them!

 

 

I'll second that!

[Hotlanta]

Why doesnt SOS or Sparks point that out? Or any other news media outlet?

To me, Some of the information from SOS is skewed. And presented for promoting their point of view. But if your going to educate/inform someone, Do it right. There are two sides to a coin not just your side.

(Hotlanta, I am not directing this to you personally or as a flame. Just sharing my view of the SOS site in general. The "truth" if you will as I read it , As a PROUD union brother. Please do not be offended)

 

The point I was making is that SOS is pointing out what our own union is neglecting to tell us; that's the whole idea of their website - to keep us informed and aware of what others aren't. Whether or not you may

think their information is 'skewed', I haven't seen any false information from them. They are showing us the low points of the contract (their side of the coin) because our own leadership won't. USA Today published an article, and was relating that retired UAW members Sam Johnson, formerly of Dodge Main, and Larry Christensen, formerly of Warren truck assembly, put out a flyer urging Chrysler members to reject the deal. "All but a very few will be sentenced for life to $14 (per hour) jobs, without real pensions, without health care in old age," they wrote. And do you know what the UAW had to say when questioned about this?? They declined to comment. And unfortunately, this is typical of our leadership, keeping silent unless it's to their benefit.

 

In other words, we as union members need to know ALL the information, and SOS is just trying to do that. You can make the point that our union leaders are 'skewing' the facts also - but nevertheless they ARE the facts.

 

However, we need to given the entire picture, so we are able to make an informed decision. So if SOS will give me the information that the UAW won't - then I'm grateful.

[bigredogre]

yes S.O.S is radical,it does not mean the site is not good.

I reserve the right to form a train of thought of my own design.

I read that site just for the radicall content I also read every other source I can.

including the very anti-union site the center for union facts.

we the rank and file need all the information we can get from any source,inculudind this board.

in order to make a informed choice,that is the duty and responsibility of anyone who votes.

[level]

yes S.O.S is radical,it does not mean the site is not good.

I reserve the right to form a train of thought of my own design.

I read that site just for the radicall content I also read every other source I can.

including the very anti-union site the center for union facts.

we the rank and file need all the information we can get from any source,inculudind this board.

in order to make a informed choice,that is the duty and responsibility of anyone who votes.

 

Listen, I was just making a point. I did not disagree with the brother from Lima's issues. I only stated that his issues are no reason to point people to the far left or right at such a site. That doesn't help anyone, nor lend credibility to their argument.

[Furious1Auto]

Listen, I was just making a point. I did not disagree with the brother from Lima's issues. I only stated that his issues are no reason to point people to the far left or right at such a site. That doesn't help anyone, nor lend credibility to their argument.

Level is an international union rep. and does not want you to know whats going on behind the scene's, look at his short list of previous posts! Read them and tell me what you think!

Edited October 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[dark270]

Level is an international union rep. and does not want you to know whats going on behind the scene's, look at his short list of previous posts! Read them and tell me what you think!

 

 

wow

[paris]

Listen, I was just making a point. I did not disagree with the brother from Lima's issues. I only stated that his issues are no reason to point people to the far left or right at such a site. That doesn't help anyone, nor lend credibility to their argument.

Level,

I commend you for your attempt to reason with the Ford employees who post comments on this site. It's unfortunate, as you are finding out, that many do not want to be told the truth concerning the realities of the domestic auto industry and the survival of Ford Motor Company in particular.

The up side that I have discovered though, is that this forum is not nearly as popular as it once was with the "average" worker who we attempt to focus our efforts on.

Continue your noble effort attempting to present people with the truth concerning their mis-interpretations but dont get caught up in any arguments with any of them after you make the truth known. It only gives some of them the limelight that they really dont deserve.

[Furious1Auto]

Level,

I commend you for your attempt to reason with the Ford employees who post comments on this site. It's unfortunate, as you are finding out, that many do not want to be told the truth concerning the realities of the domestic auto industry and the survival of Ford Motor Company in particular.

The up side that I have discovered though, is that this forum is not nearly as popular as it once was with the "average" worker who we attempt to focus our efforts on.

Continue your noble effort attempting to present people with the truth concerning their mis-interpretations but dont get caught up in any arguments with any of them after you make the truth known. It only gives some of them the limelight that they really dont deserve.

Yeh, don't answer questions so you can't be held accountable!

[paris]

Yeh, don't answer questions so you can't be held accountable!

Furious1Auto,

I must say that it is interesting to see that you have made over three THOUSAND posts since April of this year. Can you honestly say that ALL of your posts have been on your own time, with your own computer equipment? Or, are you kind of like some of the others on here that are locally appointed to a say, "training position", and have access to Union/Company purchased computer equipment and someones username and password or maybe your own to gain internet access? How would your local chairman react to finding that little tidbit out? Is he aware of the amount of time you spend on this forum?

Before you throw it back to me I'll save you the effort. I am in a much different position than you are and whether or not I am on my company computer has no relevance here.

I think it is getting to be time to do a company wide verification of internet access needs for local and national appointees. Some of you are abusing your privileges.

[dark270]

Furious1Auto,

I must say that it is interesting to see that you have made over three THOUSAND posts since April of this year. Can you honestly say that ALL of your posts have been on your own time, with your own computer equipment? Or, are you kind of like some of the others on here that are locally appointed to a say, "training position", and have access to Union/Company purchased computer equipment and someones username and password or maybe your own to gain internet access? How would your local chairman react to finding that little tidbit out? Is he aware of the amount of time you spend on this forum?

Before you throw it back to me I'll save you the effort. I am in a much different position than you are and whether or not I am on my company computer has no relevance here.

I think it is getting to be time to do a company wide verification of internet access needs for local and national appointees. Some of you are abusing your privileges.

just about anyone can post from anywhere.....what about you ? i can post from my cell phone, almost anywhere....

[level]

Level,

I commend you for your attempt to reason with the Ford employees who post comments on this site. It's unfortunate, as you are finding out, that many do not want to be told the truth concerning the realities of the domestic auto industry and the survival of Ford Motor Company in particular.

The up side that I have discovered though, is that this forum is not nearly as popular as it once was with the "average" worker who we attempt to focus our efforts on.

Continue your noble effort attempting to present people with the truth concerning their mis-interpretations but dont get caught up in any arguments with any of them after you make the truth known. It only gives some of them the limelight that they really dont deserve.

 

Thanks paris,

You know, this could be a great forum for Ford employees. I wish they would make us use our Ford Global ID's as our password or log ins though. Then we could have a little dignity and respect and actually air out our problems and concerns amongst our co workers.

[Furious1Auto]

Furious1Auto,

I must say that it is interesting to see that you have made over three THOUSAND posts since April of this year. Can you honestly say that ALL of your posts have been on your own time, with your own computer equipment? Or, are you kind of like some of the others on here that are locally appointed to a say, "training position", and have access to Union/Company purchased computer equipment and someones username and password or maybe your own to gain internet access? How would your local chairman react to finding that little tidbit out? Is he aware of the amount of time you spend on this forum?

Before you throw it back to me I'll save you the effort. I am in a much different position than you are and whether or not I am on my company computer has no relevance here.

I think it is getting to be time to do a company wide verification of internet access needs for local and national appointees. Some of you are abusing your privileges.

I have "never" made even 1 post from a company computer, never. I'm a line worker on a base operation and don't have time to get a drink of water let alone play on the computer during work hours! And no one will tell me what to do with my personal time, I'm not 8 years old!

Edited October 22, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Furious1Auto]

just about anyone can post from anywhere.....what about you ? i can post from my cell phone, almost anywhere....

You can post from your phone?

[level]

You can post from your phone?

 

The dark side of the Force

offers unimaginable power.