Local1111 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Give it a few years, then a guy reallllllllllly High up, will come up with the idea of real names for the vehicles, and it will justify his High sallary and he will become a hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Freestyle and Freestar? Yeah, that was Ford's excuse for the Freestyle not selling. The name was too close to the Freestar. Please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Lincoln's name scheme is a bit less ordered than others. BMW 1, 3 ,5 ,7 are sedans, higher number = more expensive...ok, the 1 series is slightly suspect here. X3, X5 are suvs. Z4, Z8 are sports cars. 6 is a coupe, and rumor was the next 3 series coupe/convert were to be labeled 4, but they didn't want to change what's working for them. MB has A,C,E,S for cars. Adds in 'L' for coupe (CL500). Adds 'K' for convertible (SLK320). It's not perfect since you have a convertible SL55 and stuff, but it's close enough. SUVs are G, M, R. Audi has A3, A4, A6, A8. Is there an A5 coupe? Suvs are Q7, possible a Q5 coming. TT is outlier. Lexus is ES/IS, GS, LS for sedans. RX, LX, GX for SUVs. SC for coupe. Lincoln has MkZ and MkS for sedans. MkX for SUV. MkLT for the truck. I'd say Lincoln has the more confusing system. Granted, it's a much smaller sample, but there is no pattern in the Mk-fillinrandomletter system being used atm. I don't understand naming the cars in such a way that someone new to the brand will not pronounce the name right. MkZ is "Mark Z". You can't expect people to know that. I'd say the bigger confusion in the names is that the model designation is actually the THIRD LETTER in the name. To someone not familiar, if they hear "Mark X" and "Mark Z" they might assume the car is named "Mark". Another issue with the names are that they don't really allow for differentiation within the model. A 330i is different from a 335xi. Probably $15k different. 330i = MkZ. 335xi = MkZ AWD with Twin Force. In the same vein that Ford doesn't think people want new cars to look new, they don't think people want to be able to brag about how expensive the new car they bought is, but brag subtlety. This is honestly relevant because all luxury products are about status. I know this board will disagree, but consider this difference before you dismiss it as not important. You know someone with a 330i. You buy the 335xi. You can simply say, "Yeah, I got a 335xi this week, love that car." You've easily establish the status of the car you bought and roughly how much you paid for it. Let's apply this to Lincoln. You know someone with a MkS without engine upgrade or AWD. You bought the TF AWD MkS. So you have to say, "Yeah, I got a MkS this week, got the Twin Force engine and AWD, love that car." Good examples and I agree. Maybe if you have a certain amount of income you may Only be looking at a set level of car. But I am interested in all sorts of cars. I can easily tell what a MB E320, 400, 500, etc. is going to run me or equate to. Same with the others you mentioned. Lexus is a little confusing. Lincoln just makes to sense at all in that you could not begin to guess what is what with out actually know, which takes the guess out of it. Problem is that they are not doing this only with sedans which could work if they made it make sense. But they are doing it across the brand. Which makes no sense. Which then brings out what MB also does with their SUV. You kind of have to know what the prefix for the MB suv or you would not know. They need to differentiate their SUVs and Sedans with more than 1 letter out of 3 and their sedans in a way that makes sense. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) You don't think possibly he confused the names on purpose, do you? No, writers never do subtle things like that! :rolleyes: You don't think I wrote this on purpose, do you? (This was in my original post ...) It would be nice if you actually read my post. I am well aware of rhetorical strategies ... Maybe the guy did this on purpose, but man ... if other people are this confused, that's not good. Imagine how well Lincoln would be doing if they hadn't gone through all their name changes! Edited November 16, 2007 by SVT_MAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman100 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) I find the names completely confusing - in the Lexus world, the first two letters are the series, and the further you go down into the alphabet, the higher the series, at least for the sedans. On the SUV's, I have no idea which one is which, as I have no interest in those types of vehicles. With Lincoln, the first two letters are completely meaningless - it would be easier if they dropped the first two letters and just called them the Lincoln X, S, or whatever other single letters they are using. Don't ask me about the Cadillac naming conventions - they make no sense to me either. To me, it sounds like they paid a consultant to come up with this entire idea. Edited November 16, 2007 by taxman100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkoko Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 You actually understand the Volvo & Acura systems? How about Land Rover?? Jaguar?? See, that is the point! You are not supposed to tell what the car in front of you is other than what brand it is. If your curiosity is that high that you have to find out. Just google it. Eventually you might buy it that you know so much about it. Still not making sense?? Then Why that is the same system used in PC hardware? For example, intel processor naming system needs a dictionary to understand what is what. Another example is Nvidia video cards (Geforce 8800 GT or Geforce 8800 GS or GTS or Geforce XYZ). It is made so on purpose; why? B/c the manufacturers want to you not to know what current product is, BUT that company A makes it. And you can put the sticker or get to name your product in the same teir as the top of the line available. It is all a marjeting ploy to get interested into any weird new product they make. The whole point of this post is that people remeber names easier than symbols. But, if a manufacturer forces you to remember what is what; then there is a far easier chance you will consider their product next time you shop. It is all a subliminal massage IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 in the Lexus world, the first two letters are the series, and the further you go down into the alphabet, the higher the series, at least for the sedans. ES - IS - GS - LS. Works fine. Except for the IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) To me, it sounds like they paid a consultant to come up with this entire idea. The one Lincoln hired must have been huffing glue. The "Mark" series was always reserved for a premium luxury coupe. So why did they then stick it on a lumbering truck? Why hasn't Ford changed the name of the Navigator? My guess is because it has had steady sales and they didn't need that last ditch effort of a name change to boost sales. Lincoln's need proper names and this is how it should have gone: MKEdge - Avaiator Navigator - Navigator MKFusion - Zephyr MKTaurus II - LS (for Luxury Sedan) Mark F-150 - Just smply the "LT" (for Luxury Truck) That way, it leaves the door open for a "Mark" automobile. Something that stays true to what the word "Mark" really means. All the name changing that has taken place with the Zephyr, Montego, Five Hundred, Freestyle, and Aviator indicate indecision and a lack of brand vision. No company, successful or otherwise, can afford to give that impression. Edited November 16, 2007 by P71_CrownVic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBV8 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The one Lincoln hired must have been huffing glue. No kidding! I get the MKwhatevers mixed up constantly... I wonder how many people show up at the dealerships and ask for "the one that looks like this *insert charades* you know the suv kind of one..." BTW I like MKEdge, it has a good ring to it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) I find the names completely confusing - in the Lexus world, the first two letters are the series, and the further you go down into the alphabet, the higher the series, at least for the sedans. On the SUV's, I have no idea which one is which, as I have no interest in those types of vehicles. With Lincoln, the first two letters are completely meaningless - it would be easier if they dropped the first two letters and just called them the Lincoln X, S, or whatever other single letters they are using. Don't ask me about the Cadillac naming conventions - they make no sense to me either. To me, it sounds like they paid a consultant to come up with this entire idea. The Cadillac naming convention started out like KFC was abbreviated for Kentucky Fried Chicken. STS=Seville Touring Sedan, DTS=Deville Touring Sedan, CTS= replaced the Catera in the lineup but they won't admit that there was any relation to it. Before the Eldorado went away they had a model called ETC for Eldorado Touring Coupe. Lincoln used to have an Mark VIII LSC... I take it that it was probably abbreviation Lincoln Sport Coupe or Luxury Sport Coupe... Just imagine the naming convention it would have now... MK8LSC... LOL! It's like making up letters to fit a license plate! Well maybe I just should submit and change my name to ANR... Lets just change the entire FoMoCo lineup to alphabet soup using three letters only... FST = Fiesta or VRV = Verve FCS = Focus FSN = Fusion MTG = Mustang TRS = Taurus TRX = Taurus X CNV = Crown Vic FLX = Flex EDG = Edge ESC = Escape EXP = Explorer EXN = Expedition ECN = Econoline If the Tbird ever comes back it can be the TBD... MLN = Milan SBL = Sable MRN = Mariner MTN = Mountaineer GMA = Grand Marquis We can ever get down into the trim level names with BLT = Bullit, SBY = Shelby, PNY = Pony LTD = Limited, PLT = Platnum, VGA = Voga, PRM = Premier, KRH = King Ranch, EBR = Eddie Bauer.... Exciting isn't it? Well if that is not exciting enough then Ford can just go back to using Model A, Model T, etc... Oh wait... That would have to be abbreviated to MDA, MDT.. Edited November 16, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) No kidding! I get the MKwhatevers mixed up constantly... I wonder how many people show up at the dealerships and ask for "the one that looks like this *insert charades* you know the suv kind of one..." BTW I like MKEdge, it has a good ring to it... Now there is an idea.... Use the last letter of the MK naming scheme to denote the relation to which the Ford model it is based on.... MKF for Lincoln Flex, MKT for Lincoln's Taurus, MKE for Lincoln's Edge... They run into a problem with the F and E names though... Edited November 16, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVT_MAN Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 Odd thing is - I remember names a lot better than I remember acronyms. I don't see how combinations of letters would be easier to remember than actual names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) That way, it leaves the door open for a "Mark" automobile. Something that stays true to what the word "Mark" really means. First of all they need to focus on what Lincoln really means... We know what Mercury means: IWBCDIAF = I wouldn't be caught dead in a Ford.. Edited November 16, 2007 by Watchdevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchdevil Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 You actually understand the Volvo & Acura systems? It is all a marjeting ploy to get interested into any weird new product they make. The whole point of this post is that people remeber names easier than symbols. But, if a manufacturer forces you to remember what is what; then there is a far easier chance you will consider their product next time you shop. It is all a subliminal massage IMHO. What if Pepsi did away with all the different names for each specifically flavored product they make and just call them Pepsi DP, Pepsi MD, Pepsi SM.. How could one possibly relate the names with a specific product? The magic of names like Mustang and Thunderbird is that they are in fact Fords, but they are so specific that you don't need to preface them with the Ford name to relate to what kind of car they are. These are the kind of cars anyway that people will more likely buy accross a broad demographic of buyers and not be concerned with the stigma that they are Fords they would not be caught dead in. It seems to me however Ford's lineup of trucks, SUV's and CUV's probably don't carry that kind of stigma as much. Ford's small cars and larger sedans have a heavy burden to prove their worth and place after years of nelect. Offering the right style to go with the refined platforms will help change that perception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) It's kind of s sensitive subject....but most people who buy cars in the over $40,000 range (and it's not hard to get a base priced $30,000-$35,000 Lincoln with options to $40,000), aren't buying them just to buy a car. You can get the same transportation value for far less. They are buying them as status symbols, or for some other self worth reason. The way many of us are programed to think. You know the old ...."Look at that guy driving the 911, he must have money" thing. And the Lincoln M this and that doesn't (yet) give that message to the general public. It may come eventually, and maybe Lincoln recognizes that, but not there yet. Edited November 16, 2007 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 It's kind of s sensitive subject....but most people who buy cars in the over $40,000 range (and it's not hard to get a base priced $30,000-$35,000 Lincoln with options to $40,000), aren't buying them just to buy a car. You can get the same transportation value for far less. They are buying them as status symbols, or for some other self worth reason. The way many of us are programed to think. You know the old ...."Look at that guy driving the 911, he must have money" thing. And the Lincoln M this and that doesn't (yet) give that message to the general public. It may come eventually, and maybe Lincoln recognizes that, but not there yet. Of course Lincoln recognizes that they are still a rung down the ladder, otherwise they wouldn't be priced so darn low compared to the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Maybe Lincoln can be like Prince and just use a symbol and then they could be "The Sedan formally known as MK", ummmmm, which one is the sedan again? The bigger one? "The Sedan formally known as MKS" Or maybe Morris Code? -- -.- ... Or - .... . / ... . -.. .- -. / ..-. --- .-. -- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- / -.- -. --- .-- -. / .- ... / -- -.- ... Or Lincoln could use this guy to put it into LOTR Elvish. Or Klingon, but that is kind of old school and like Latin, a dead or dieing language. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Maybe Lincoln can be like Prince and just use a symbol and then they could be "The Sedan formally known as MK", ummmmm, which one is the sedan again? The bigger one? "The Sedan formally known as MKS" Or maybe Morris Code? -- -.- ... Or - .... . / ... . -.. .- -. / ..-. --- .-. -- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- / -.- -. --- .-- -. / .- ... / -- -.- ... Or Lincoln could use this guy to put it into LOTR Elvish. Or Klingon, but that is kind of old school and like Latin, a dead or dieing language. Peace and Blessings Classic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Lets just change the entire FoMoCo lineup to alphabet soup using three letters only... FST = Fiesta or VRV = Verve FCS = Focus FSN = Fusion MTG = Mustang TRS = Taurus TRX = Taurus X CNV = Crown Vic FLX = Flex EDG = Edge ESC = Escape EXP = Explorer EXN = Expedition ECN = Econoline If the Tbird ever comes back it can be the TBD... MLN = Milan SBL = Sable MRN = Mariner MTN = Mountaineer GMA = Grand Marquis We can ever get down into the trim level names with BLT = Bullit, SBY = Shelby, PNY = Pony LTD = Limited, PLT = Platnum, VGA = Voga, PRM = Premier, KRH = King Ranch, EBR = Eddie Bauer.... For a second, I thought I was reading your stock picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Hey Watchdevil... "Econoline 150" has been E-150 for quite a while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark B. Morrow Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Lincoln doesn't have much of a naming history. In the '20s and '30s they had L and K. The first name was Zephyr then Continental, Custom, Lido, Cosmopolitan, Capri, Premier and Versailles. The only name with any value (IMHO) is Continental. That is not to say they could not come up with some new names. The alphabet soup is confusing and doesn't carry any status in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Lincoln doesn't have much of a naming history. In the '20s and '30s they had L and K. The first name was Zephyr then Continental, Custom, Lido, Cosmopolitan, Capri, Premier and Versailles. The only name with any value (IMHO) is Continental. That is not to say they could not come up with some new names. The alphabet soup is confusing and doesn't carry any status in my opinion. Continental should have been the name of the MKTaurus II before MKS. And Aviator before MKX. And attaching the "Mark" name to a re-badged, slow, heavy, ugly F-150 completely ruined the name. Again, the name "Mark" had always been reserved for a Premium Luxury Coupe. So I think that Lincoln should produce a proper Premium Luxury Coupe and call it the Mark IX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Oh. Proper premium luxury coupe..... That's a market that's what? Something like 20k units a year, total? Really need Lincoln to go chasing -that- market. That's reallllllll smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P71_CrownVic Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Oh. Proper premium luxury coupe..... That's a market that's what? Something like 20k units a year, total? Really need Lincoln to go chasing -that- market. That's reallllllll smart. Well, now that the expert has spoken...maybe Lincoln should hire you...you seem to know everything. Ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macattak1 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Oh. Proper premium luxury coupe..... That's a market that's what? Something like 20k units a year, total? Really need Lincoln to go chasing -that- market. That's reallllllll smart. Sure. I hear Ford, well, not really Ford, but a spokes person often siting the need for more models for the market. That in order to compete they need more new models. And they are not saying they want to discontinue existing models. They want More Selection. Look at Toyota and Honda. Who is taking over the market? Who has a larger selection? Honda, only selling the Accord, Civic, and CR-v is only ever going to get so big. Their other models, though they may not sell that much still augment their company. So yea, a small segment can make money in more than just total pure profit from that model. If 20k to 40k units was everything it was not cracked up to be most auto mfgs and most of their lineups would be gone. Peace and Blessings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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