Lincoln names are confusing apparently ...

[RichardJensen]

Well, now that the expert has spoken...maybe Lincoln should hire you...you seem to know everything.

 

Ass.

Seriously, man, the luxury coupe market is dying on the vine.

 

Here's the October sales numbers to prove it:

 

Mercedes CL: 318

Mercedes CLK: 1,133

Lexus SC: 316

Infiniti G: 1,887

Jaguar XK: 344

Cadillac XLR: 115

BMW 6/8: 663

BMW Z4: 866

Volvo C70: 389

 

That is a teensy tiny market. Not as small as I first said, but look at the volumes for individual models there! There is absolutely no need for Lincoln to develop an entry for that market.

Edited November 16, 2007 by RichardJensen

[old_fairmont_wagon]

And, to add to RJs list impact here, how many of those Coupes are actually based on a platform shared with a much higher volume sedan? Answer, all but 3 (XLR -> Corvette, Z4 very loosely on previous gen 3 series, but, morphed for roadster duty, Lexus SC doesn't appear to have any high volume Sedan counterpart). The rest are piggybacked on another platform to make them even remotely profitable. What would Lincoln use for their Coupe? The CD3? The Mustang? Some future, not yet existing platform? There's no way that they could make a decent coupe that's WORTHY TO SELL IN THE LUX MARKET with the platforms out there right now. They are going to have to wait for GRWD and pray that the plants that it will live in are capable of flexing enough to produce a vehicle that will consume maybe three days production a month at most.

[armadamaster]

No kidding! I get the MKwhatevers mixed up constantly...

 

And we are (allegedy) car guys on this forum, so how is Joe Blow Car Buyer supposed to figure them out.

 

Mark Fields or Jerry McGovern sometime ago said that internally they are no longer using the "Mark" name, as it was, as you said, confusing. They are referring to them by "Em-Kay" now. "Em-Kay-Zee", "Em-Kay-Ess", "Em-Kay-Ex"... Once the entire lineup gets the naming convension it will likely become more fluid. With hangers-on like the Mark LT and Town Car hanging around, it gets confusing. I think Navigator may be the only name they keep.

 

 

MMKAY??

[P71_CrownVic]

Seriously, man, the luxury coupe market is dying on the vine.

 

Here's the October sales numbers to prove it:

 

Mercedes CL: 318

Mercedes CLK: 1,133

Lexus SC: 316

Infiniti G: 1,887

Jaguar XK: 344

Cadillac XLR: 115

BMW 6/8: 663

BMW Z4: 866

Volvo C70: 389

 

That is a teensy tiny market. Not as small as I first said, but look at the volumes for individual models there! There is absolutely no need for Lincoln to develop an entry for that market.

 

I am thinking more along the lines of a modern Mark VIII LSC. Not 100K XLR and other GT cars.

[RichardJensen]

I am thinking more along the lines of a modern Mark VIII LSC. Not 100K XLR and other GT cars.

The Volvo C70 starts out in the mid 30s, as does the Infiniti G.

 

These lower end products are hardly setting the world on fire, and the Infiniti G is probably the closest analogue to what you're thinking of. It is the best selling vehicle listed, but still sells in such pointlessly small numbers as to make its existence going forward an open question.

 

I mean, maybe, for a little while, you could sustain volumes of 2k with a really stylish mid 30s Lincoln, but at that rate you would be very hard pressed to pay for anything at all, unless it shared a LOT of components (like, for instance, gauges) with a LOT of higher volume product.

[ANTAUS]

Incidentally yesturday I was getting an oil change at the dealership, and my mother tagged along since it was going to take a short while and we were running errands. So "she heard", about a new vehicle, and wanted to take a look at it. So I asked her, "Is it the Mark X, or Mark Z"? She didn't know what to say, so I explain the differences. But still had a blank stare...We were in the service area, which just had pictures in the wall... "Is it that one, or the other one?" Still no clue...all she knew is that something was new.

 

So between the service and service dept. hallway here I'm cursing the damn naming scheme..."Is it a fricken Z, or a fricken X, or is the new Lincoln Mark Fucker!? Mark this, Mark that, Fuck mark"...urrrr So once I approach the sales area the guy is sort of hearing what I'm saying and he gives me a look "Your frustrated by it too huh ?" I tell him "yeah, and MarkS has been introduced buddy, so more work for you". He was telling me the older folks were the ones having a harder time adjusting..he's having better luck saying "the big one, the smaller one, the crossover".

 

Of course I happen to point to a Town Car on display..."What is THAT THING doing here?"

[Watchdevil]

Hey Watchdevil...

 

"Econoline 150" has been E-150 for quite a while now.

 

The point of demonstrating the 3 letter Lincoln naming farce was to apply it to Ford and Mercury models using only three letters and no more. Just imagine if Ford and Mercury started using 3 letter names and see how confusing and vague it would be to consumers.

[RichardJensen]

The point of demonstrating the 3 letter Lincoln naming farce was to apply it to Ford and Mercury models using only three letters and no more. Just imagine if Ford and Mercury started using 3 letter names and see how confusing and vague it would be to consumers.

And my point was ---horror of horrors--- it's already happening.

 

At least to fullsize vans.

[NickF1011]

Incidentally yesturday I was getting an oil change at the dealership, and my mother tagged along since it was going to take a short while and we were running errands. So "she heard", about a new vehicle, and wanted to take a look at it. So I asked her, "Is it the Mark X, or Mark Z"? She didn't know what to say, so I explain the differences. But still had a blank stare...We were in the service area, which just had pictures in the wall... "Is it that one, or the other one?" Still no clue...all she knew is that something was new.

 

So between the service and service dept. hallway here I'm cursing the damn naming scheme..."Is it a fricken Z, or a fricken X, or is the new Lincoln Mark Fucker!? Mark this, Mark that, Fuck mark"...urrrr So once I approach the sales area the guy is sort of hearing what I'm saying and he gives me a look "Your frustrated by it too huh ?" I tell him "yeah, and MarkS has been introduced buddy, so more work for you". He was telling me the older folks were the ones having a harder time adjusting..he's having better luck saying "the big one, the smaller one, the crossover".

 

Of course I happen to point to a Town Car on display..."What is THAT THING doing here?"

 

So your mother couldn't even recognize the car she was thinking of when looking at a picture of it? If that's the case, the name seems entirely irrelevant.

 

And once again....there is no "Mark" anything except the soon-to-be extinct Mark LT. The others are Em-Kays.

[P71_CrownVic]

Incidentally yesturday I was getting an oil change at the dealership, and my mother tagged along since it was going to take a short while and we were running errands. So "she heard", about a new vehicle, and wanted to take a look at it. So I asked her, "Is it the Mark X, or Mark Z"? She didn't know what to say, so I explain the differences. But still had a blank stare...We were in the service area, which just had pictures in the wall... "Is it that one, or the other one?" Still no clue...all she knew is that something was new.

 

So between the service and service dept. hallway here I'm cursing the damn naming scheme..."Is it a fricken Z, or a fricken X, or is the new Lincoln Mark Fucker!? Mark this, Mark that, Fuck mark"...urrrr So once I approach the sales area the guy is sort of hearing what I'm saying and he gives me a look "Your frustrated by it too huh ?" I tell him "yeah, and MarkS has been introduced buddy, so more work for you". He was telling me the older folks were the ones having a harder time adjusting..he's having better luck saying "the big one, the smaller one, the crossover".

 

Of course I happen to point to a Town Car on display..."What is THAT THING doing here?"

Thats one way to help TC sales. People cant figure out the MK alphabet soup, they then get so frustrated they say, "Fuck it...just give me a Town Car."

 

and BTW...the MK does not stand for "Mark"...it stands for "Emm-Kay".

Edited November 17, 2007 by P71_CrownVic

[ANTAUS]

But if you look at some of the literally, like the owner's manual, it says (at least the early models)..."Mark X" on some of the paperwork. Unless Ford has switched quietly to the MKX without Honda knowing.

[suv_guy_19]

But if you look at some of the literally, like the owner's manual, it says (at least the early models)..."Mark X" on some of the paperwork. Unless Ford has switched quietly to the MKX without Honda knowing.

 

 

it is MK, not mark. It switched back not long after it switched the first time.

[armadamaster]

Of course I happen to point to a Town Car on display..."What is THAT THING doing here?"

 

Oh let the Town Car bother you...it's too busy being the best selling Lincoln ever. :reading:

[NickF1011]

Oh let the Town Car bother you...it's too busy being the best selling Lincoln ever. :reading:

 

And the Toyota Corolla is the best-selling Toyota ever. And the VW Bug is the best selling Volkswagen ever. Does that make the Corolla Toyota's best model ever? The Bug the best VW ever? Hardly. In fact, they are some of the worst models both automakers have made. They have just been around the longest.

 

You will see Town Car retail volume drop to damn near zero once the MKS goes on sale. Heck, it's close to zero already.

Edited November 19, 2007 by NickF1011

[armadamaster]

And the Toyota Corolla is the best-selling Toyota ever. And the VW Bug is the best selling Volkswagen ever. Does that make the Corolla Toyota's best model ever? The Bug the best VW ever? Hardly. In fact, they are some of the worst models both automakers have made. They have just been around the longest.

 

You will see Town Car retail volume drop to damn near zero once the MKS goes on sale. Heck, it's close to zero already.

 

If the MKS ever had a chance at that, it is right now. Because I was recently at the nearest L/M dealer, and they were already sold out of 2007 Town Cars, with none coming in obiviously anytime soon. So yes, I can see the MKS picking up a few sales from that. Of course, from what the salesmen were telling me, most people are opting for the in-stock Grand Marquis just fine instead.

[P71_CrownVic]

If the MKS ever had a chance at that, it is right now. Because I was recently at the nearest L/M dealer, and they were already sold out of 2007 Town Cars, with none coming in obiviously anytime soon. So yes, I can see the MKS picking up a few sales from that. Of course, from what the salesmen were telling me, most people are opting for the in-stock Grand Marquis just fine instead.

Ok...how many TCs did they have to begin with? I mean, selling "out" of one or two is not something to brag about.

[suv_guy_19]

Ok...how many TCs did they have to begin with? I mean, selling "out" of one or two is not something to brag about.

 

 

Especially since they stopped making them for months.

[RichardJensen]

Already sold out of 2007 Town Cars, and we're only 3 months into the new model year too...

 

Wow.

[P71_CrownVic]

If my math is correct, (I went to public school... ) the TC has sold 10,944 units to retail buyers so far this year (selling about 1094 a month).

 

That is using the 58.5 fleet percentage. Total they have sold 26,057 this year (selling about 2606 a month).

[armadamaster]

Ok...how many TCs did they have to begin with? I mean, selling "out" of one or two is not something to brag about.

 

No, no....you are thinking Crown Vics on (or I should say not on) a Ford lot.

 

L/M dealers, at least around here, do at least try and stock the best selling Lincoln and Mercury models ever.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

In Massachusetts, when I input a car into the CJIS/NCIC computer system to enter a stolen vehicle, we must use three letter abriviations for all vehicles. I belive the Ranger is RGR or RGN... somthing along those lines.

 

I really think that Lincoln should have thought out a strategy for naming the vehicles instead of random alpha combinations. Untill Scion debued the xD, their naming system made very good sense.

 

 

Lets just change the entire FoMoCo lineup to alphabet soup using three letters only...

 

FST = Fiesta or VRV = Verve

FCS = Focus

FSN = Fusion

MTG = Mustang

TRS = Taurus

TRX = Taurus X

CNV = Crown Vic

FLX = Flex

EDG = Edge

ESC = Escape

EXP = Explorer

EXN = Expedition

ECN = Econoline

 

If the Tbird ever comes back it can be the TBD...

 

MLN = Milan

SBL = Sable

MRN = Mariner

MTN = Mountaineer

GMA = Grand Marquis

 

We can ever get down into the trim level names with BLT = Bullit, SBY = Shelby, PNY = Pony

LTD = Limited, PLT = Platnum, VGA = Voga, PRM = Premier, KRH = King Ranch, EBR = Eddie Bauer....

 

Exciting isn't it?

 

Well if that is not exciting enough then Ford can just go back to using Model A, Model T, etc... Oh wait... That would have to be abbreviated to MDA, MDT..

[NickF1011]

L/M dealers, at least around here, do at least try and stock the best selling Lincoln and Mercury models ever.

 

Yes...they try to stock the best-selling RETAIL models. Of the few Lincoln-Mercury dealers around here, there are plenty of Grand Marquis's, but if there are any Town Cars at all, they are usually hidden away on the back lot somewhere. There is almost zero interest in them as a retail vehicle. That interest will probably fall completely to zero when the MKS hits dealers. By then, I wouldn't be surprised if Ford mandates that the Town Car also becomes a fleet-only vehicle prior to its permanent demise.

[lincmerc51]

You folks should read autoextremist.com today. His big rant is about exactly this subject and more. Basically - what's wrong with Lincoln.

[suv_guy_19]

You folks should read autoextremist.com today. His big rant is about exactly this subject and more. Basically - what's wrong with Lincoln.

 

Or alternatively, as reflected by sales, whats now right with Lincoln.

[NickF1011]

Or alternatively, as reflected by sales, whats now right with Lincoln.

 

I think that's the part all the naysayers here conveniently overlook. Their sales are up considerably, and will be up even more considerably in coming years as more models are added to the lineup. Even better, the sales aren't of profitless fleet queens, but conquest retail customers for the most part.