theoldwizard Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I can now say with 98% confidence, that the US Fiesta/Verve/B-car will have the Zetec Rocam SOHC 2 valve/cylinder 1.6L as its only engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 I can now say with 98% confidence, that the US Fiesta/Verve/B-car will have the Zetec Rocam SOHC 2 valve/cylinder 1.6L as its only engine. RATS!!! Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Which sounds like they'll be sourced from Brazil? Is that right? So... is final assembly in Brazil? Do we know if it will be flex-fuel? If this is true, I can't believe they're doing SOHC over the Duratec DOHC from FoE. The gas mileage better be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Which sounds like they'll be sourced from Brazil? Is that right? So... is final assembly in Brazil? Do we know if it will be flex-fuel? If this is true, I can't believe they're doing SOHC over the Duratec DOHC from FoE. The gas mileage better be amazing. - the engine is a Brazilian engine, but I have a strong source telling me Brazil will lose the Fiesta itself and only keep the derivatives (EcoSport, B-Max, Bronco, Puma, etc) - the engine is FlexFuel, and also very tough and bulletproof- but not very refined and no that economic. - The engine is based on the EU DOHC Duratec (which is truly a Sigma Zetec engine), but IMO Mazda;s MZR engine from Mazda is the most advanced in the FoMoCo family. MAYBE - just MAYBE with the Nanjing assembly location, Ford will use the MZR for the Fiesta, and the RoCam for others .. who knows .. unfortunately wizard here is the only source I have for the US b-program engines. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Holy shit? Did Nasser stage a coup or something??? How can Ford ruin their entry intro the B car market by sticking it with this Brazilian piece of shit???? Oh well, my hope for Ford beating bankruptcy just went down a few notches.... Morons.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Seriously, to whoever made this decision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN6Du3MCgI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waymondospiff Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Does anyone have power & fuel economy numbers for this little engine in the current Fiesta? What seems oddest about this move is emissions. It sounds like this 1.6L "Zetec" is a fairly old engine...as such, I would think its emissions performance would be less than stellar. Why wouldn't they go with a 1.5/1.8L MZR derivative? Weird. Heck - why not go with the old 2.0L SPI from the Escort & Focus? That had to cheap to build and at least it was decently fuel efficient (38 mpg w/ 5-speed manual in Focus...I think.) Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) Hey guys l can’t understand what you are all winging about, a 1600cc engine is a very big engine for a car like the Fiesta/Verve across this side of the pond. In the UK 1200cc, 1400cc & 1600cc engines are fitted to the Fiesta what was you expecting a 3000cc V6 engine. UK Ford Fiesta (UK MPG) 1250cc (Gasoline) Town MPG 36.2 Out of Town MPG 60.1 Average MPG 48.7 BHP 75 Max Torque 81lb/ft 1400cc (Diesel...) Town MPG 48.0 Out of Town MPG 74.3 Average MPG 62.0 BHP 67 Max Torque 118 lb/ft 1600cc (Gasoline) Town MPG 27.0 Out of Town MPG 48.0 Average MPG 38.0 BHP 98 Max Torque 105 lb/ft Ford Fiesta MPG http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...0&ED3=50306 Ford Fiesta Performance http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...0&ED3=50306 Edited December 16, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Hey guys l can’t understand what you are all winging about, a 1600cc engine is a very big engine for a car like the Fiesta/Verve across this side of the pond. In the UK 1200cc, 1400cc & 1600cc engines are fitted to the Fiesta what was you expecting a 3000cc V6 engine. UK Ford Fiesta (UK MPG) 1250cc (Gasoline) Town MPG 36.2 Out of Town MPG 60.1 Average MPG 48.7 BHP 75 Max Torque 81lb/ft 1400cc (Diesel...) Town MPG 48.0 Out of Town MPG 74.3 Average MPG 62.0 BHP 67 Max Torque 118 lb/ft 1600cc (Gasoline) Town MPG 27.0 Out of Town MPG 48.0 Average MPG 38.0 BHP 98 Max Torque 105 lb/ft Ford Fiesta MPG http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...0&ED3=50306 Ford Fiesta Performance http://www.whatcar.com/car-comparison.aspx...0&ED3=50306 This is America, anything below 2.0 is considered girly. Besides, the 1.6L sucks when it comes to power, no offence. I have it in the Focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) This is America, anything below 2.0 is considered girly. Besides, the 1.6L sucks when it comes to power, no offence. I have it in the Focus. Good morning Lincoln how are you. Don't worry Lincoln you don't offend me, l find you quite funny at times. All l can say is our fuel cost nearly 3 times more per litre than you would pay for it in the States, so if it costs $4 a gallon in the US we would be paying nearly $12 here. I don't know if $12 a gallon in the States would change the way folk think about a 1600cc car. AA European fuel prices per litre compared to the US http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices/ Edited December 16, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 Hey guys l can’t understand what you are all winging about, a 1600cc engine is a very big engine for a car like the Fiesta/Verve across this side of the pond... True. However, we have much tougher emissions and safety standards. I remember, when the Fiesta was first imported to the US back in the '80s. The additional weight from US bumpers and glass (yes, glass !) was so much that it caused excessive brake pad wear ! Front pads would wear out in less than 10K (no one understood why the rear never wore out until they realized that they were not self adjusting and that after about 5000 miles were doing no braking at all !) Now add in front and side air bags ! I know for a fact, the PCM for the US Fiesta required twice as much memory in order to meet OBD-II. BTW, how many Fiestas are sold in the UK with automatic and A/C ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) - the engine is a Brazilian engine, but I have a strong source telling me Brazil will lose the Fiesta itself and only keep the derivatives (EcoSport, B-Max, Bronco, Puma, etc) Are you saying that final assembly of the US Fiesta/Verve will not be in Brazil ? That contradicts what I have heard so far. It doesn't "make sense" from a cost perspective either. - the engine is FlexFuel, and also very tough and bulletproof- but not very refined and not that economic. Heck, I just found out they are doing the 100% alcohol Brazilian calibration here in SE MI. They use gasoline for starting in cold weather, but I still can't believe you would calibrate in NA, where the temperature gets below zer, when Brazil hardly ever sees freezing, except maybe in the mountains ! - The engine is based on the EU DOHC Duratec (which is truly a Sigma Zetec engine) Now you are getting into a "chicken and egg" argument and most would say you have it backward ! The Zetec-Rocam showed up in Brazil in 2000. The EU Duratec 8V did not show up until 2003. The Duratec 8V is a completely different engine from the MZR based "world engines" named Duratec 2.0 and 2.3 in other EU and US applications. Don't hold your breath on a 1.6L MZR showing up in a US Fiesta any time soon. Edited December 16, 2007 by theoldwizard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 Why wouldn't they go with a 1.5/1.8L MZR derivative? Cost Heck - why not go with the old 2.0L SPI from the Escort & Focus? Cost/weight Everything about the US Fiesta has to do with cost ! This is Ford's last chance at selling a profitable small car in the US ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 16, 2007 Author Share Posted December 16, 2007 All l can say is our fuel cost nearly 3 times more ... True. But how much of that is tax that get put back into public transportation (which is almost non-existent in most US cities). Personally, I like "regulating" fuel economy via fuel taxation. I just don't trust the government enough not to squander those dollars !! (Some federal highway money has been spent on planting flowers and making bicycle pathway; noble ideas after you maintain the roads and bridges !) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Now you are getting into a "chicken and egg" argument and most would say you have it backward ! The Zetec-Rocam showed up in Brazil in 2000. The EU Duratec 8V did not show up until 2003. I believe he's speaking of the 16V 1.6L, the one that produces about 100HP and 107lb/ft. (My Focus' engine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordBuyer Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 Ford needs new engines across the board including small displacement 4 cylinders that offer very competitive fuel mileage and power. The new 3.5 Liter V6 was only a start and Ford needs to do the same across all lines. They just can't keep putting old engines into new vehicles like they did with Escape and Focus. Hopefully the new small displacement turbo engines that Ford is supposedly developing will make it into all of Ford's cars including B segment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) CostCost/weight Everything about the US Fiesta has to do with cost ! This is Ford's last chance at selling a profitable small car in the US ! Maybe the European Ford Fusion would be a better entry level car for Ford in the US, its bigger with a lot more space than the Fiesta and Verve and you can still get 70 MPG from the diesel version European Ford Fusion http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/fi...ord_fusion.html Edited December 16, 2007 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 That was scary, until I saw that the page dated 2002. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus05 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 It's not the size of the engine that I find troubling. Hell, I would have been happy with a 1.4 or 1.5 if it was adequate to the job of motivating the car with very good gas mileage in the class (something like 29/30 - 36/37 is all it takes) and better NVH. However, the 1.6 Zetec offers none of this. It will be larger displacement, equal or lesser power, more thirsty and as unrefined as the Yaris (probably less refined than the Fit). The car will be emotional when it arrives, and it should be very nice as far as materials and overall feel of driving. However, the Zetec 1.6 is a non-starter. I hope the oldwizard is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 16, 2007 Share Posted December 16, 2007 (edited) Everyone should just shut off their red alert claxons and at least go back to yellow. This is information from one person that is not even complete. The best thing to do is to take a wait and see approach. We don't know if they will give us this engine in its exact current form. Edited December 16, 2007 by suv_guy_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LincolnFan Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Everyone should just shut off their red alert claxons and at least go back to yellow. This is information from one person that is not even complete. The best thing to do is to take a wait and see approach. We don't know if they will give us this engine in its exact current form. Oh my god, damage control at it's finest. Ford should hire you as a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_the_limey Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 (edited) The venerable Kent lives on! (Albeit without the pushrods and with an aluminium head) Actually the Rocam isn't such a bad engine, yes it is SOHC with 2 valve per cylinder but that means it has more charge motion and higher inlet gas velocities meaning potentially better volumetric efficiency at lower engine speeds (i.e. more torque). Also having a single-camshaft acting on two valves (esp. acting on roller-finger followers) has less friction than two camshafts acting on 4-valves with mechanical buckets. If they put EGR on it (unlike they did with the SportKa in Europe) there is little reason to for this engine not to be very economical. I guess some reasons that the Sigma 1.6 may not be used is because the only source for them is the "expensive" UK, FoE is making full use of the production numbers available, and that the Sigma engine with it's 11:1 compression ratio will need re-engineering to make better use of US regular gasoline. BTW: Lincolnfan there is very little wrong with the 1.6 Sigma engine in your car in terms of power or torque, what sucks is the weight of the car and the gearbox it is attached to. Edited December 17, 2007 by jon_the_limey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldwizard Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 ...Actually the Rocam isn't such a bad engine, yes it is SOHC with 2 valve per cylinder... I never said it was. It is just not a Duartec/MZR DOHC ! A lot is ridding on the new (unique) PowerShift transmission for the US Fiesta/Verve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suv_guy_19 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Oh my god, damage control at it's finest. Ford should hire you as a lawyer. Its not damage control. But I would love to work for Ford, so thank you. We really don't know all that much yet. It's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_the_limey Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I never said it was. It is just not a Duartec/MZR DOHC ! A lot is ridding on the new (unique) PowerShift transmission for the US Fiesta/Verve. I know, I was responding more generally to some of the other posts here. I'm guessing that with the Powershift DCT in NA it is going to be calibrated as a fuel-efficent alternative to a "true" slushbox automatic rather than a flappy-paddle/throttle-blipping/pseudo-sports-car setup. A torquey little engine like this might suit this style better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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