Tulsa Close, Nashville stay open?

[whereswaldo]

I understand the whole solidarity issue amongst UAW brothers and sisters, but do you really think that the folks at KCAP or CAP are really going to welcome you with open arms when your taking the jobs of their kids and grand kids?

I would accept them, wouldnt you ?? I've heard KCAP is a very accepting place...havent heard about CAP. By the way, no ones taking my kids jobs, because they will NOT be working at a Ford plant.

[whereswaldo]

I think the UAW has done a great job at protecting its members....all the visteon members that they rolled over. I fell the same could happen next contract!!

Absolutely !! UAW has done a great job with its existing members , Visteon/ACH and all.

[Captain723]

Try to sell this in MI!!! Well, if you set this in motion, thwy will feel it in 2011!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They already did....Monroe, soon to be Saline then Sheldon Rd. and hopefully Milan!! I think that it is great that when everyone started bashing the leadership in Tulsa that 10 new start posting!!! The whole bargaining committee must be posting now!! I now know what it was like when I first started posting on this site!! Everyone wanted to bash the new guy!! I truly feel sorry for those in Tulsa that can not leave and will not have an opportunity to go with Ford. Keep your fingures crossed in hopes of Mr. Price coming back to the table. Remember that there were not a line of business interested in the glass division.

[Critic]

It's not hard to believe that Ford/ACH have always had a backup plan if either one or both of the plants voted no!

There is your crux. Granted only FORD & the Tulsa plant knows more than the rest. Their plant voted down the '07 National Ford Contract also. IF, BOTH domestic glass plants (ACH) had also voted down this ISP contract, then what would have happened? Was Tulsa banking on Nashville also voting it down? As for Solidarity, it looks to me like it was Nashville that let UAW workers down. They have the same options as any Ford worker, but their not getting blasted.

 

If both had voted it down, ACH had stated that all ACH plants were to be closed or sold by '08. This glass buyer, he wanted into the glass plant's to make him and a few other friends of his some money. Other wise if he wanted to make glass, he could open his own plant some where else. I don't see China shipping glass to the USA, in the future. Ford was going to subsidize his operation also. Ford is consolidating operations back to Michigan, so shipping all glass from Mexico seems doubtful also, then again shipping cost would not equal the 1/2 wage cut being forced on glass. WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? The UAW wanted members to take this and go away. Believe me, you don't get the representation of the BIG 3 UAW in a spin-off plant like the BIG 3 plants.

 

Will The International revisit Tulsa and explain this contract one more time? Why did each plant have a significant difference in contracts? Accordingly it looks like the International is only interested in numbers of members. Ford workers have the benefit of the national contract and still do, they have buyout offers, could transfer to a new plant. The temps, would have had a job, Ford workers that didn't want to relocate would have a frozen pension and subsidized wage + reload job.

 

Tulsa had better get on the phone and beg that the contract gets explained one more time and a new vote is taken. Now that the future is known and people have time to think rationally, a re-vote would be different I believe. Meanwhile those in a Ford plant, will tell Tulsa what bad people you were. Hail to Tulsa, Hold your heads up! You did what you believed in. It's now being stated that operations will be moved to Nashville, Nashville will no longer be a liability upon Ford, perhaps it will increase in size and continue. Perhaps NOT! WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? Probably the plants that supply GM and Chrysler would be getting the work! <---

 

Workers are a liability, it's all about making money for the top dogs. I salute a man that sticks to his convictions whether right or wrong in my mind.

[Captain723]

I would accept them, wouldnt you ?? I've heard KCAP is a very accepting place...havent heard about CAP. By the way, no ones taking my kids jobs, because they will NOT be working at a Ford plant.

Thats is the most sincere thing I have heard you post on this forum waldfk, all the way till the end. you probably do not have kids! it is good that you didn't reproduce, there are enough idiots in the world!! Just kidding.

I am glad to see you would accept them, but not because your kids will not have a job, but because they are UAW brothers and sisters. What the leadership in Tulsa should be doing is trying to find a way to get the ACH members placed somewhere!! It is very unfortunate if the plant closes, but would be more unfortunate if those ACH members can't find work!!

[Ebbtide03]

There is your crux. Granted only FORD & the Tulsa plant knows more than the rest. Their plant voted down the '07 National Ford Contract also. IF, BOTH domestic glass plants (ACH) had also voted down this ISP contract, then what would have happened? Was Tulsa banking on Nashville also voting it down? As for Solidarity, it looks to me like it was Nashville that let UAW workers down. They have the same options as any Ford worker, but their not getting blasted.

 

If both had voted it down, ACH had stated that all ACH plants were to be closed or sold by '08. This glass buyer, he wanted into the glass plant's to make him and a few other friends of his some money. Other wise if he wanted to make glass, he could open his own plant some where else. I don't see China shipping glass to the USA, in the future. Ford was going to subsidize his operation also. Ford is consolidating operations back to Michigan, so shipping all glass from Mexico seems doubtful also, then again shipping cost would not equal the 1/2 wage cut being forced on glass. WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? The UAW wanted members to take this and go away. Believe me, you don't get the representation of the BIG 3 UAW in a spin-off plant like the BIG 3 plants.

 

Will The International revisit Tulsa and explain this contract one more time? Why did each plant have a significant difference in contracts? Accordingly it looks like the International is only interested in numbers of members. Ford workers have the benefit of the national contract and still do, they have buyout offers, could transfer to a new plant. The temps, would have had a job, Ford workers that didn't want to relocate would have a frozen pension and subsidized wage + reload job.

 

Tulsa had better get on the phone and beg that the contract gets explained one more time and a new vote is taken. Now that the future is known and people have time to think rationally, a re-vote would be different I believe. Meanwhile those in a Ford plant, will tell Tulsa what bad people you were. Hail to Tulsa, Hold your heads up! You did what you believed in. It's now being stated that operations will be moved to Nashville, Nashville will no longer be a liability upon Ford, perhaps it will increase in size and continue. Perhaps NOT! WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? Probably the plants that supply GM and Chrysler would be getting the work! <---

 

Workers are a liability, it's all about making money for the top dogs. I salute a man that sticks to his convictions whether right or wrong in my mind.

I wish that i could cover everything in your post but i will be lost in it somewhere. First you praise Tulsa for voting down the contract and also voting down the master ( the only plant to do so company wide) which anyone fails to understand. Then you bash nashville for voting to ratify and having no solidarity then 2 paragraphs later you say maybe tulsa can have the contract explained again and they can vote differently. Which is it you want a Yes or a No . maybe you should ask Tulsa why they refused to let International into their building to help explain things from the beginning.

 

That being said you go about explaining how ford will get their glass and how it will never come from China. Ford tried to get China to buy glass division but they asked for such stupid crap China said screw you and went back home. As we are told China now has 26 float lines. we have 1 in Nashville and 1 in tulsa. that said I think china can handle the glass seeing as how they are making it for a third of the cost that we are making it for. the most expensive part would be getting it here.

 

To sum it up the real truth is i do applaud people that take a stand but facts are that contract was put together based on the highest paying company in this country that is doing the same job glass division is doing. I don't like it but thats a fact. the market doesnt call for the wages we make. it also doesnt help that Ford pays us 50 dollars for a windshield that costs more than that to make then sells it through Carlite for about 7 times that. So glass loses out

 

I truly wish the people in Tulsa had been more informed but their union leaders fought this from day one and made promises that cant be kept. i dont wish them any ill will and hope that everyone gets what THEY need because everyones needs are different. I have been called a self serving bitch on here for voting the way i felt best suited me and my family. I wanted to transfer to KCAP but now I have to wait and see what the future holds. I do pray that this works out the best it can for everyone involved

Edited January 26, 2008 by Ebbtide03

[wakeup]

Oh I see what your "real" issue is....... you were wanting to double dip and now you can't. That's why it is ok in your mind to rollover for others. Also sounds like you are obsessed (based on this post and previous post) with the Chairman in Tulsa!

 

Did you ever think that maybe YOU don't know as much as you would like to think you know?

 

 

dude Iam from Sterling....I just can't believe how stupid the leadership there was and obviously still is...never seen stupidity like this before....Pack your bags dude.

[wakeup]

Absolutely !! UAW has done a great job with its existing members , Visteon/ACH and all.

 

 

:party2:

[Spoiler]

I truly wish the people in Tulsa had been more informed but their union leaders fought this from day one and made promises that cant be kept. i dont wish them any ill will and hope that everyone gets what THEY need because everyones needs are different. I have been called a self serving bitch on here for voting the way i felt best suited me and my family. I wanted to transfer to KCAP but now I have to wait and see what the future holds. I do pray that this works out the best it can for everyone involved

 

What makes one think that they were not informed and voted based on the facts? It appears there were risk either way. The irony would have been had the contract been voted in then everyone would be calling everyone dumb asses for voting in a pathetic contract and talking about how the leadership sold them out for there own self serving interest. It again, would be alleged that the leadership didn't present all the facts!

 

I wish both Tulsa and Nashville nothing but the best.

[wakeup]

I wish that i could cover everything in your post but i will be lost in it somewhere. First you praise Tulsa for voting down the contract and also voting down the master ( the only plant to do so company wide) which anyone fails to understand. Then you bash nashville for voting to ratify and having no solidarity then 2 paragraphs later you say maybe tulsa can have the contract explained again and they can vote differently. Which is it you want a Yes or a No . maybe you should ask Tulsa why they refused to let International into their building to help explain things from the beginning.

 

That being said you go about explaining how ford will get their glass and how it will never come from China. Ford tried to get China to buy glass division but they asked for such stupid crap China said screw you and went back home. As we are told China now has 26 float lines. we have 1 in Nashville and 1 in tulsa. that said I think china can handle the glass seeing as how they are making it for a third of the cost that we are making it for. the most expensive part would be getting it here.

 

To sum it up the real truth is i do applaud people that take a stand but facts are that contract was put together based on the highest paying company in this country that is doing the same job glass division is doing. I don't like it but thats a fact. the market doesnt call for the wages we make. it also doesnt help that Ford pays us 50 dollars for a windshield that costs more than that to make then sells it through Carlite for about 7 times that. So glass loses out

 

I truly wish the people in Tulsa had been more informed but their union leaders fought this from day one and made promises that cant be kept. i dont wish them any ill will and hope that everyone gets what THEY need because everyones needs are different. I have been called a self serving bitch on here for voting the way i felt best suited me and my family. I wanted to transfer to KCAP but now I have to wait and see what the future holds. I do pray that this works out the best it can for everyone involved

 

great post.

[wakeup]

I would accept them, wouldnt you ?? I've heard KCAP is a very accepting place...havent heard about CAP. By the way, no ones taking my kids jobs, because they will NOT be working at a Ford plant.

 

 

Absolutly...because it not our Kids jobs yet...however, it is thier jobs right now....and they are intitled to them. Just like everyone else in the UAW/Ford structure.....They used to call that UNITY.

[wakeup]

What makes one think that they were not informed and voted based on the facts? It appears there were risk either way. The irony would have been had the contract been voted in then everyone would be calling everyone dumb asses for voting in a pathetic contract and talking about how the leadership sold them out for there own self serving interest. It again, would be alleged that the leadership didn't present all the facts!

 

I wish both Tulsa and Nashville nothing but the best.

 

 

I would rather have voted yes and taken the verbal abuse and have a plant....then voted no and have nothing and still take all the abuse...

 

But i'm just an old horse trader........

[Critic]

I wish that i could cover everything in your post but i will be lost in it somewhere. First you praise Tulsa for voting down the contract and also voting down the master ( the only plant to do so company wide) which anyone fails to understand. Then you bash nashville for voting to ratify and having no solidarity then 2 paragraphs later you say maybe tulsa can have the contract explained again and they can vote differently. Which is it you want a Yes or a No . maybe you should ask Tulsa why they refused to let International into their building to help explain things from the beginning.

 

That being said you go about explaining how ford will get their glass and how it will never come from China. Ford tried to get China to buy glass division but they asked for such stupid crap China said screw you and went back home. As we are told China now has 26 float lines. we have 1 in Nashville and 1 in tulsa. that said I think china can handle the glass seeing as how they are making it for a third of the cost that we are making it for. the most expensive part would be getting it here.

 

To sum it up the real truth is i do applaud people that take a stand but facts are that contract was put together based on the highest paying company in this country that is doing the same job glass division is doing. I don't like it but thats a fact. the market doesnt call for the wages we make. it also doesnt help that Ford pays us 50 dollars for a windshield that costs more than that to make then sells it through Carlite for about 7 times that. So glass loses out

 

I truly wish the people in Tulsa had been more informed but their union leaders fought this from day one and made promises that cant be kept. i dont wish them any ill will and hope that everyone gets what THEY need because everyones needs are different. I have been called a self serving bitch on here for voting the way i felt best suited me and my family. I wanted to transfer to KCAP but now I have to wait and see what the future holds. I do pray that this works out the best it can for everyone involved

Yea. I try to write what my mind says' but my fingers are slow.

 

Ford screws every product the same way when they get someone else to handle the product and not themselves, it's a way to shutter any plant. FORD wants to just be an assembly operation, not a full tier producer, times have changed from 20 years ago.

 

I didn't praise any action, I praised people with convictions to do what they did. RIGHT OR WRONG I wrote.

 

I wrote from both a long time perspective and a realist.

Long time was that the UAW stuck together. I now read where people in secure plants are trashing Tulsa. I read 2 different contracts for Tulsa and Nashville. The International allowed that? I see people in UAW plants trash Tulsa for voting from their hearts. These are people the same people that profess solidarity also. I wrote that I wondered about the outcome IF both plants turned it down.

 

Your right shipping is the most important factor here. Mexico will ship and so will China. I do NOT know what the International said to people, but I speculate they just wanted people to roll over and take it. They want numbers period. If they are 14 or 30/hr, it's a member/number.

 

The real truth is that International did NOT explain this enough, nor were enough questions asked by Tulsa. FORD workers are protected no matter what happens. Those jobs are not. Tulsa and Nashville saw the writing on the wall back in '99 when it went to Visteon, back in '06 when it became ACH and was told CLOSE OR SELL! Even in '07 National contract. A Ford worker that voted it down was upset, about the future, well it's NOT bright anywhere. a FORD worker is protected. That job and the temp isn't. The International wants to 'explain' the contract and have you vote tomorrow, period!

 

Obviously Ford could not sell any part of these operations to a domestic glass maker who would take the plants and jobs. In walks a guy WITH ties to China, who wanted Tulsa to take a piece of paper that was signed by the UAW (written by a person who states: PROUD MEMBER OF NASHVILLE UAW). The same letter was a kiss-off the people in Tulsa too. I see each Local now that had someone in the International get favors over those who didn't.

 

I'm a by-stander to all of this, Only Tulsa/Nashville and International know the whole story. I do think Tulsa needs to try someway to re-vote and see how it goes. A cooling off period was needed, because now reality will set in. As it stands this story MIGHT be over. If it's a re-vote then tomorrow is another day.

 

This is what the future hold now for Tulsa: 1.) Buyout package 2.) SHORT TERM JSP and a Move to Michigan. If that plant shutters you WILL be forced into one of those options. Ford will clear out enough temps for those that did not take a buyout.

[Spoiler]

I would rather have voted yes and taken the verbal abuse and have a plant....then voted no and have nothing and still take all the abuse...

 

But i'm just an old horse trader........

 

It's hard to say what one would or would not do until they are in that position.

[whereswaldo]

Absolutly...because it not our Kids jobs yet...however, it is thier jobs right now....and they are intitled to them. Just like everyone else in the UAW/Ford structure.....They used to call that UNITY.

First....Wow thanks for a clean post.LOL. Anyway, I do not feel any UAW kids are entitled to our jobs. IF any of our kids cant do better and do get in , fine. But entitled , no. I am glad I pushed education for my kids and that they are using their hard work to get where they want to be in life. Um, no disrespect but isnt what you just described really nepotism and the old boys network (unity?) ??

[Captain723]

There is your crux. Granted only FORD & the Tulsa plant knows more than the rest. Their plant voted down the '07 National Ford Contract also. IF, BOTH domestic glass plants (ACH) had also voted down this ISP contract, then what would have happened? Was Tulsa banking on Nashville also voting it down? As for Solidarity, it looks to me like it was Nashville that let UAW workers down. They have the same options as any Ford worker, but their not getting blasted.

 

If both had voted it down, ACH had stated that all ACH plants were to be closed or sold by '08. This glass buyer, he wanted into the glass plant's to make him and a few other friends of his some money. Other wise if he wanted to make glass, he could open his own plant some where else. I don't see China shipping glass to the USA, in the future. Ford was going to subsidize his operation also. Ford is consolidating operations back to Michigan, so shipping all glass from Mexico seems doubtful also, then again shipping cost would not equal the 1/2 wage cut being forced on glass. WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? The UAW wanted members to take this and go away. Believe me, you don't get the representation of the BIG 3 UAW in a spin-off plant like the BIG 3 plants.

 

Will The International revisit Tulsa and explain this contract one more time? Why did each plant have a significant difference in contracts? Accordingly it looks like the International is only interested in numbers of members. Ford workers have the benefit of the national contract and still do, they have buyout offers, could transfer to a new plant. The temps, would have had a job, Ford workers that didn't want to relocate would have a frozen pension and subsidized wage + reload job.

 

Tulsa had better get on the phone and beg that the contract gets explained one more time and a new vote is taken. Now that the future is known and people have time to think rationally, a re-vote would be different I believe. Meanwhile those in a Ford plant, will tell Tulsa what bad people you were. Hail to Tulsa, Hold your heads up! You did what you believed in. It's now being stated that operations will be moved to Nashville, Nashville will no longer be a liability upon Ford, perhaps it will increase in size and continue. Perhaps NOT! WHERE IS THE REAL TRUTH? Probably the plants that supply GM and Chrysler would be getting the work! <---

 

Workers are a liability, it's all about making money for the top dogs. I salute a man that sticks to his convictions whether right or wrong in my mind.

I serioously think you and your 12 posts are a salaried fk. Get off our forum and start your own...."how I am going to spend my next performance bonus that I did not deserve!! salaried fk!

[wakeup]

First....Wow thanks for a clean post.LOL. Anyway, I do not feel any UAW kids are entitled to our jobs. IF any of our kids cant do better and do get in , fine. But entitled , no. I am glad I pushed education for my kids and that they are using their hard work to get where they want to be in life. Um, no disrespect but isnt what you just described really nepotism and the old boys network (unity?) ??

 

 

No NO I mean the people who are here get taken care of first...by seniority. then we worry about everyone else.

 

I will push education for my kids as well....but will teach them to never forget thier roots and where they came from.

 

and always respect it.

[Original Glass Man]

No NO I mean the people who are here get taken care of first...by seniority. then we worry about everyone else.

 

I will push education for my kids as well....but will teach them to never forget thier roots and where they came from.

 

and always respect it.

 

 

Salaried, Hourly or temp, we now all have to take a bite from the "crap" sandwich TGP made for us!

[Pioneer]

I am so glad Sterling and Rawsonville ducked..I rather go back a little than go away.

 

 

Sterling and Rawsonville didn't do anything but sell-outall of the other ACH plants.

[whereswaldo]

No NO I mean the people who are here get taken care of first...by seniority. then we worry about everyone else.

I will push education for my kids as well....but will teach them to never forget thier roots and where they came from.

and always respect it.

Oh OK. UH shit , this might mean we agree on something ................

[whereswaldo]

Sterling and Rawsonville didn't do anything but sell-outall of the other ACH plants.

There you go , just when we get a little peace around here you go and stir the big pot ! LOL !

[STERLINGAXLE]

Sterling and Rawsonville didn't do anything but sell-outall of the other ACH plants.

[Pioneer]

There you go , just when we get a little peace around here you go and stir the big pot ! LOL !

 

Me, stir the pot? Naaaaa. :shades:

[wakeup]

Sterling and Rawsonville didn't do anything but sell-outall of the other ACH plants.

 

 

Don't even go there...anyway, we at Sterling and Rawsonville call that...good leadership!

 

I guess we should have called Joe Hindricks bluff like Tulsa?....even when our IUAW was telling us don't do it.

 

Naa, I guess we respect Chuck and his opinions...and the UAW/Ford Dept in general for that matter.

 

We understand the truth sucks.....but the UAW did'nt create the problem....Look up Globalization...then read about NAFTA...you'll eventually get the picture...

[Pioneer]

Don't even go there...anyway, we at Sterling and Rawsonville call that...good leadership!

 

 

It's good leadership to sell out your fellow union brother?

 

Oh yea. I forgot. I'm talking to a member of a local that sabotaged the machinery taken from your location and sent to ours. I guess they must have a class at your orientation on how to screw over your brethren. :rolleyes:

 

I hope a bunch of high seniority from ACH plants flow into Sterling and push you out into the street.