Discussion between Local 228 & 400

[whereswaldo]

yes I did are they part of 400?

........

Edited March 2, 2008 by whereswaldo

[wakeup]

Be nice if you could answer in full statements so I can tell which part you are answering. Here : If HP lays off someone with less time than you(your on layoff also), will you be offered the job first ,ahead of them, if there is a callback ??

 

 

I dont understand are those locations part of 400? how many people?

[wakeup]

YEah I see how fond of people in general you people are. If its a true transfer agreement, do you have a right to take a call back spot at ,say, Romeo ahead of someone who was laid off from there who has less seniority ?? And your zone does include more than just those 3. Forgot about your bro's at MPG and Highland Park ??

 

 

I did'nt caim it to be a true transfer agreement...just works almost as good with more places for us to go thats all.

[wakeup]

Be nice if you could answer in full statements so I can tell which part you are answering. Here : If HP lays off someone with less time than you(your on layoff also), will you be offered the job first ,ahead of them, if there is a callback ??

 

 

yes thats how it is now

Edited February 22, 2008 by wakeup

[ktpworker69]

What a vision.....in a time when membership is declining and Locals are getting stretched thin, some look to come up with a plan to grow. As membership dwindles and the traditional employees get replaced with entry level employees each local needs to start tightening up their belts. Think about this though....combining Locals to make them stronger...sure what Local would want to combine with another and lose their position....one might ask. A leader that is willing to truly look out for his/her members, thats who. That would not be a popular choice, but think about it....if your membership is dwindling then you can't pay the bills, spend money to help educate, organize or even promote the qualities of the UAW into the community. This would be a great idea if there were leaders that were willing to step up for the better of their members. If anyone has any insight on this I would like to hear it!!

 

it dont matter if we have 2000 or 10,000 members. the UAW is still worthless. i see it first hand everyday so dont tell me no bullshit about 'theres power in numbers'. the IAW looks out for "thier friends and family and fuck you if your not one of them". how about pro-rating our dues as to how much help they do for us each month? oh, nevermind, then we would get payment from these jokesters

[hendew_15]

it dont matter if we have 2000 or 10,000 members. the UAW is still worthless. i see it first hand everyday so dont tell me no bullshit about 'theres power in numbers'. the IAW looks out for "thier friends and family and fuck you if your not one of them". how about pro-rating our dues as to how much help they do for us each month? oh, nevermind, then we would get payment from these jokesters

Listen Bro,you are the UAW and so is that guy next to you!If you don't like something change it!You have that ability to lobby and express your concerns and you have the ability to change them.

I don't wanna hear this shit about only the family and friends get any type of help.Thats bullshit.I have fought for what is right time and time again and got things accomplished.You have the same ability but you might not be all that motivated and just bitch and moan and don't do shit to help.There is an election coming in May,DO SOMETHING!

 

Power in Numbers is no bullshit.

Edited February 18, 2008 by hendew_15

[zoomerjrt]

Listen Bro,you are the UAW and so is that guy next to you!If you don't like something change it!You have that ability to lobby and express your concerns and you have the ability to change them.

I don't wanna hear this shit about only the family and friends get any type of help.Thats bullshit.I have fought for what is right time and time again and got things accomplished.You have the same ability but you might not be all that motivated and just bitch and moan and don't do shit to help.There is an election coming in May,DO SOMETHING!

 

Power in Numbers is no bullshit.

If there are power in numbers then why does the UAW keep losing members every year????

[hendew_15]

If there are power in numbers then why does the UAW keep losing members every year????

We keep losing members because we continue to lose market share thus not producing as many cars and trucks per year and reducing our workforce.It's not the UAW 's fault we are losing market share.

I am surprised that I have to explain this to a union member.Wake the fuck up and get your head out of the sand.

[zoomerjrt]

We keep losing members because we continue to lose market share thus not producing as many cars and trucks per year and reducing our workforce.It's not the UAW 's fault we are losing market share.

I am surprised that I have to explain this to a union member.Wake the fuck up and get your head out of the sand.

so why didn't the union fight to have the Fusion built in Atlanta? There strong numbers should have been able to do this? There is no excuse for any Ford product sold in the US to be built any where but here by UAW workers. But the UAW took concessions to allow it to happen.

[ktpworker69]

Listen Bro,you are the UAW and so is that guy next to you!If you don't like something change it!You have that ability to lobby and express your concerns and you have the ability to change them.

I don't wanna hear this shit about only the family and friends get any type of help.Thats bullshit.I have fought for what is right time and time again and got things accomplished.You have the same ability but you might not be all that motivated and just bitch and moan and don't do shit to help.There is an election coming in May,DO SOMETHING!

 

Power in Numbers is no bullshit.

well, i know "we are supposed to be the uaw", but it dont really work that way at ktp. yeah, you may get a little help on a petty issue, but if you push something too far, or go over someones head to fight for something, the "uaw" will sic labor on you to make your life miserable. ive seen it happen more than once bro, i know how this scam called the "uaw" works.

 

they are ALL A JOKE

[hendew_15]

so why didn't the union fight to have the Fusion built in Atlanta? There strong numbers should have been able to do this? There is no excuse for any Ford product sold in the US to be built any where but here by UAW workers. But the UAW took concessions to allow it to happen.

 

well, i know "we are supposed to be the uaw", but it dont really work that way at ktp. yeah, you may get a little help on a petty issue, but if you push something too far, or go over someones head to fight for something, the "uaw" will sic labor on you to make your life miserable. ive seen it happen more than once bro, i know how this scam called the "uaw" works.

 

they are ALL A JOKE

 

Obviously we don't agree.I see the UAW for what it is designed for, to protect our rights as workers and you guys see it as a way to "hold you down".

 

All I can say is take a look around and think if you would have such a nice lifestyle if there never was a union?Do you think in the sweltering heat of the Kentucky summer you would have those air conditioned break rooms ,thjose ice machines any of those ergonomic rights?Do you think that you would get 3 breaks a day,2 paid?Do you think you would get overtime after 8?

 

Simply answered NO!

 

None of those things you have to make your day go by any smother and more confortablly would exist.Working the line is tuff and not everyone can do it.Just imagine if there were no nationally negotiated contract to protect you from unsafe working conditions?

 

I respect both of your opinions but the fact remains,without the UAW your lives are far worse than the petty shit you bring to this conversation.

Edited February 18, 2008 by hendew_15

[TheEagle]

What a vision.....in a time when membership is declining and Locals are getting stretched thin, some look to come up with a plan to grow. As membership dwindles and the traditional employees get replaced with entry level employees each local needs to start tightening up their belts. Think about this though....combining Locals to make them stronger...sure what Local would want to combine with another and lose their position....one might ask. A leader that is willing to truly look out for his/her members, thats who. That would not be a popular choice, but think about it....if your membership is dwindling then you can't pay the bills, spend money to help educate, organize or even promote the qualities of the UAW into the community. This would be a great idea if there were leaders that were willing to step up for the better of their members. If anyone has any insight on this I would like to hear it!!

 

 

I usually do this in flyer form on the plant floor at Sterling Plant. I see that many people from Sterling are checking this site out lately.

I had to register.

 

I put a flyer out on the floor about the local not being able to do shit for us a month ago.

 

I understand our local some financial problems. 750,000.00 mortguage and only 360,000.00 in assets. Thats a huge problem!!

 

True, the officers did take a 54% cut in pay and eliminated expenses for everyone.

 

Now I heard our President said at the executive board that he must cut days for officers.

 

I could care less, we have 2 retirees working that should be long gone. We need to keep our 2 active people.

The by-laws call for the finacial secretary to be on 4 days. that needs to change!!

 

We arent getting any bigger as a local so what do we have to look forward to???

Another 20 years of doing nothing as a local union??? Lame parties and continue being a joke of a union?

 

Maybe we can have picnics and actually have a union again. I am all for it if the financies are right.

 

I Just don't see the politicans letting the membership get a voice. If they do and the financials are good it should pass by 92%

 

They will squash it because it effects them the most and benifits the membership. None of our officers are brave enough to do this so quit talking shit.

Edited February 19, 2008 by TheEagle

[Captain723]

it dont matter if we have 2000 or 10,000 members. the UAW is still worthless. i see it first hand everyday so dont tell me no bullshit about 'theres power in numbers'. the IAW looks out for "thier friends and family and fuck you if your not one of them". how about pro-rating our dues as to how much help they do for us each month? oh, nevermind, then we would get payment from these jokesters

Hey asshole how in the fk do you think you get vacaton, holidays, benefits, wages and the right to open your dumb fkin mouth at work. I hope your next job at walmart really works out for you!! At least you will always be able to aford to shop their!! Take a package and leave asshole!!

Edited February 19, 2008 by Captain723

[ktpworker69]

Hey asshole how in the fk do you think you get vacaton, holidays, benefits, wages and the right to open your dumb fkin mouth at work. I hope your next job at walmart really works out for you!! At least you will always be able to aford to shop their!! Take a package and leave asshole!!

 

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE.......... you asked for my insight, and you got it. accept it and shut your pie hole you UAW suck ass

[TheEagle]

FUCK YOU ASSHOLE.......... you asked for my insight, and you got it. accept it and shut your pie hole you UAW suck ass

 

 

Thanks for your input now go bother some ther thread. Thanks

[ktpworker69]

Obviously we don't agree.I see the UAW for what it is designed for, to protect our rights as workers and you guys see it as a way to "hold you down".

 

All I can say is take a look around and think if you would have such a nice lifestyle if there never was a union?Do you think in the sweltering heat of the Kentucky summer you would have those air conditioned break rooms ,thjose ice machines any of those ergonomic rights?Do you think that you would get 3 breaks a day,2 paid?Do you think you would get overtime after 8?

 

Simply answered NO!

 

None of those things you have to make your day go by any smother and more confortablly would exist.Working the line is tuff and not everyone can do it.Just imagine if there were no nationally negotiated contract to protect you from unsafe working conditions?

 

I respect both of your opinions but the fact remains,without the UAW your lives are far worse than the petty shit you bring to this conversation.

i fully agree that the UAW is fully responsible for some of the things we have as a ford employee, but it wasnt these jerk offs that fought tooth and nail for it.

 

*are you referring to the breakrooms that half of which you cant even go into in the summer because the a/c dont work?

*please find me 3 ice machines that even work in the middle of summer besides the cafeteria

*the ergonomic rights that have some jobs fucked up that everyone who does them ends up having surgery?

*i'm pretty sure we would get paid breaks without the uaw.....federal law

*fairly sure overtime would be paid as well

 

i respect your opinion as well, but its obvious we see about as far apart as workers and management.

 

have a good day :shades:

[Captain723]

i fully agree that the UAW is fully responsible for some of the things we have as a ford employee, but it wasnt these jerk offs that fought tooth and nail for it.

 

*are you referring to the breakrooms that half of which you cant even go into in the summer because the a/c dont work?

*please find me 3 ice machines that even work in the middle of summer besides the cafeteria

*the ergonomic rights that have some jobs fucked up that everyone who does them ends up having surgery?

*i'm pretty sure we would get paid breaks without the uaw.....federal law

*fairly sure overtime would be paid as well

 

i respect your opinion as well, but its obvious we see about as far apart as workers and management.

 

have a good day :shades:

Take a package and go work at walmart asshole!! Go to a salaried thread you fkin idiot!! Pd breaks and OT is not federal law either asswipe!! Ford Motor is definitely diverse in their hiring....they don't care if you are a dumb ass or not......... got to love them!!

[hendew_15]

i fully agree that the UAW is fully responsible for some of the things we have as a ford employee, but it wasnt these jerk offs that fought tooth and nail for it.

 

*are you referring to the breakrooms that half of which you cant even go into in the summer because the a/c dont work?

*please find me 3 ice machines that even work in the middle of summer besides the cafeteria

*the ergonomic rights that have some jobs fucked up that everyone who does them ends up having surgery?

*i'm pretty sure we would get paid breaks without the uaw.....federal law

*fairly sure overtime would be paid as well

 

i respect your opinion as well, but its obvious we see about as far apart as workers and management.

 

have a good day :shades:

The first 3 points you make is your obligation to yourself to have that stuff brought to someones attention and have fixed.If they ignore it got to the next person,if they ignore it you don't just say fuck it I guess the UAW sucks?It is our job to fight tooth and nail to keep and preserve our rights that were fought so hard for by our fathers father.

 

"i'm pretty sure we would get paid breaks without the uaw.....federal law"

 

WRONG...They only have to give you a 2-10 minute Breaks for under 12 hours worked.They have to give you 3-10 minute breaks for over 12 hours worked in the commonwealth of Kentucky.

 

fairly sure overtime would be paid as well

 

Wrong...Do you think they want to pay 1.5 after 8? NO!They have to pay by law only after 40.

 

Unless specifically exempted, employees covered by the Act must receive overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 in a workweek at a rate not less than time and one-half their regular rates of pay. There is no limit in the Act on the number of hours employees aged 16 and older may work in any workweek. The Act does not require overtime pay for work on Saturdays, Sundays, holidays, or regular days of rest, as such.

 

 

C'mon bro...wakeup

Edited February 19, 2008 by hendew_15

[ktpworker69]

Take a package and go work at walmart asshole!! Go to a salaried thread you fkin idiot!! Pd breaks and OT is not federal law either asswipe!! Ford Motor is definitely diverse in their hiring....they don't care if you are a dumb ass or not......... got to love them!!

:bowdown: keep on being brain washed suck ass. its very obvious the uaw has you brainwashed, so theres nothing gonna change your shallow little mind.

 

have a good day

[Captain723]

:bowdown: keep on being brain washed suck ass. its very obvious the uaw has you brainwashed, so theres nothing gonna change your shallow little mind.

 

have a good day

If being brain washed means sticking up for the very people who employee me and allow me to earn good living for me and my family......then yes I am brained washed. Thank you UAW and Ford Motor Company!!

[lquidspine]

In my opinion the UAW has it's problems just like anyother democracy ,Yes there is favotism,Yes most union reps spend more time with the shity employee's than the people that come to work everyday and do there job.

 

I'm sure i could list more things wrong but when we get down to it....favortism is not just from UAW reps ,it happens all over the world its reality, all i can sugjest is learn to work around it.

 

The trouble i would see with combining Locals is some that we have in 600, while it is a rather large local it has its problems.

 

First and formost is the seperation and the distinction of each Unit.

For example DTP has 2 Units that represent it, you have the main Unit that reps the paint and final building and then you have DSP that reps the Body shop.

The sad part with the addition of the C-Crew the Final Unit got more reps that could cover the C-crew because they had the numbers( need 200 workers per rep) now in Body we run with about 120 per shift far short to get a elected rep for C-crew workers.

 

We have been having other reps on the weekends fill in half days spread between them all to cover us but there is no consistant representation.

 

While i agree with a shrinking membership something needs to be done to better align our membership with our leadership , sadly this is something that should have been addressed with last years contract since the national contract specifies about numbers and local I dont know maybe this is something that can be hammered out at the constitutional convention this summer but considering the agenda at the last convention ( pay increases for top leadership, less than a year after asking the mebership to invest our last negotiated raise into the first VEBA) I dont have much faith that this is a real issue that can be worked out in one week in Vegas at that.

 

 

But the remarks about not wanting to help out another Local are just disturbing, Perfect or not the UAW is our best bet we wouldnt have shit if not for the old reign and we would have lost alot more than we have the last 6 years even with Ron, While i presonally feel he is kinda weak on alot of issues I will say the UAW has more good to it than bad and that is the end result.

 

In the end consolidation would help all involved for the small or pretty much dead Locals there is no reason to pay for a local that barely has a membership, but there definatly has to be a hard look at how reps would be spread out within locals or Units.

 

 

 

 

*warning* this post may include some sarcasm

[Captain723]

In my opinion the UAW has it's problems just like anyother democracy ,Yes there is favotism,Yes most union reps spend more time with the shity employee's than the people that come to work everyday and do there job.

 

I'm sure i could list more things wrong but when we get down to it....favortism is not just from UAW reps ,it happens all over the world its reality, all i can sugjest is learn to work around it.

 

The trouble i would see with combining Locals is some that we have in 600, while it is a rather large local it has its problems.

 

First and formost is the seperation and the distinction of each Unit.

For example DTP has 2 Units that represent it, you have the main Unit that reps the paint and final building and then you have DSP that reps the Body shop.

The sad part with the addition of the C-Crew the Final Unit got more reps that could cover the C-crew because they had the numbers( need 200 workers per rep) now in Body we run with about 120 per shift far short to get a elected rep for C-crew workers.

 

We have been having other reps on the weekends fill in half days spread between them all to cover us but there is no consistant representation.

 

While i agree with a shrinking membership something needs to be done to better align our membership with our leadership , sadly this is something that should have been addressed with last years contract since the national contract specifies about numbers and local I dont know maybe this is something that can be hammered out at the constitutional convention this summer but considering the agenda at the last convention ( pay increases for top leadership, less than a year after asking the mebership to invest our last negotiated raise into the first VEBA) I dont have much faith that this is a real issue that can be worked out in one week in Vegas at that.

But the remarks about not wanting to help out another Local are just disturbing, Perfect or not the UAW is our best bet we wouldnt have shit if not for the old reign and we would have lost alot more than we have the last 6 years even with Ron, While i presonally feel he is kinda weak on alot of issues I will say the UAW has more good to it than bad and that is the end result.

 

In the end consolidation would help all involved for the small or pretty much dead Locals there is no reason to pay for a local that barely has a membership, but there definatly has to be a hard look at how reps would be spread out within locals or Units.

*warning* this post may include some sarcasm

Great post with a lot of insight to legitimate concerns.....something that can be worked through though. If we sit and do nothing then we will be faced to make a decision in the future that may be too late to adjust. If we try and do something now or sooner than later we can work out the issues. If we wait we will be forced to do something in haste and that never works. Great post and thanks!! I can see where there would be issues with something as big as the rouge. This would be a little more manageable with the size that we are talking about!!

[TheEagle]

In my opinion the UAW has it's problems just like anyother democracy ,Yes there is favotism,Yes most union reps spend more time with the shity employee's than the people that come to work everyday and do there job.

 

I'm sure i could list more things wrong but when we get down to it....favortism is not just from UAW reps ,it happens all over the world its reality, all i can sugjest is learn to work around it.

 

The trouble i would see with combining Locals is some that we have in 600, while it is a rather large local it has its problems.

 

First and formost is the seperation and the distinction of each Unit.

For example DTP has 2 Units that represent it, you have the main Unit that reps the paint and final building and then you have DSP that reps the Body shop.

The sad part with the addition of the C-Crew the Final Unit got more reps that could cover the C-crew because they had the numbers( need 200 workers per rep) now in Body we run with about 120 per shift far short to get a elected rep for C-crew workers.

 

We have been having other reps on the weekends fill in half days spread between them all to cover us but there is no consistant representation.

 

While i agree with a shrinking membership something needs to be done to better align our membership with our leadership , sadly this is something that should have been addressed with last years contract since the national contract specifies about numbers and local I dont know maybe this is something that can be hammered out at the constitutional convention this summer but considering the agenda at the last convention ( pay increases for top leadership, less than a year after asking the mebership to invest our last negotiated raise into the first VEBA) I dont have much faith that this is a real issue that can be worked out in one week in Vegas at that.

But the remarks about not wanting to help out another Local are just disturbing, Perfect or not the UAW is our best bet we wouldnt have shit if not for the old reign and we would have lost alot more than we have the last 6 years even with Ron, While i presonally feel he is kinda weak on alot of issues I will say the UAW has more good to it than bad and that is the end result.

 

In the end consolidation would help all involved for the small or pretty much dead Locals there is no reason to pay for a local that barely has a membership, but there definatly has to be a hard look at how reps would be spread out within locals or Units.

*warning* this post may include some sarcasm

 

 

I bet there are diffrent systems that we could get, we would be smaller than local 600 in size for sure. So that should be easier for them to work out for us. I appreciate the info. Any other problems?

They say we will have power in numbers do you guys have power because your all together?

 

How do the finances work? Are the Chairman/Presidents happy with that system? Does one unit gang up on others? Are you guys able to keep things fair between units? How do you work thru that?

Edited February 20, 2008 by TheEagle

[Dr X]

well, i look at it this way...there are plenty of reasons why 228 would want this and reasons why i don't want VD part of it.

 

first it gives the older, less skilled workforce at shot at a plant with a serious future. We've just launched two new trans lines and are going to be stable for many more years. we know that sterling might struggle as truck and rear wheel sales drop off more. we have alot higher recent investment than they. their jobs are easier to sell and remove than the transmission lines (not that they can't) you can part out the welders, the final lines with a minimum of time loss.

 

second it gives the older much more powerful 228 local a chance to regain some of its glory days again. Increasing their size only makes them stronger downtown and having two plants with important parts (VD and Romeo) gives them leverage with the company. Want to get more at sterling, use H&S at VD to scare the company.

 

third, they are the single largest local of the three. they would receive the majority of the power and vote. It would take alot of work to get romeo and VD to work together and challenge them. Most of leadership would be their people.

why i don't want this.

 

first it lessens our control of our destiny. we could end up a puppet to Sterling once again, like in the old days. No one wants to be sterlings little brother again. we are the newer, better plant with better work and stronger committments from the company.

 

second the overall union power would not be as beneficial to us as to sterling. their overall superiority in numbers allows them to hold sway in many of the leaderhsip situations. I've worked 9 years to get some pull within my local and now its gone. f-that, because my job will suffer

 

third we don't need to be the dumping ground for their people when their business drops off. our people worked, made comittments and got the work and now we all get moved out so sterling people can come in as their product numbers dry up. thats the plan, thats why they want to be in our plant.

 

all in all if i felt that sterling wasn't looking to shore up its financial, workforce and investment situation i'd be interested, but i don't want to have my local become invovled for the sake of making 228 a player in the UAW again.

to be honest i can see why 400 might want to be connected to one of us, but not both. they will lose any control they had that way. We'd dominate the politics and they'd struggle to get any younger people moved up. It would stgnate involvement and disenfranchise the workers.

Well said and right to the point, I'm finishing up my 4 year sentence to AAi because I got bump out of VD because of the old transfer agreement with Sterling. Nobody at VD wants this, that's why there is no longer a transfer agreement. You guys at Sterling should be trying to set up a transfer agreement with the local down in Flat Rock because that's where your going to end up.

[Captain723]

well, i look at it this way...there are plenty of reasons why 228 would want this and reasons why i don't want VD part of it.

 

first it gives the older, less skilled workforce at shot at a plant with a serious future. We've just launched two new trans lines and are going to be stable for many more years. we know that sterling might struggle as truck and rear wheel sales drop off more. we have alot higher recent investment than they. their jobs are easier to sell and remove than the transmission lines (not that they can't) you can part out the welders, the final lines with a minimum of time loss.

 

second it gives the older much more powerful 228 local a chance to regain some of its glory days again. Increasing their size only makes them stronger downtown and having two plants with important parts (VD and Romeo) gives them leverage with the company. Want to get more at sterling, use H&S at VD to scare the company.

 

third, they are the single largest local of the three. they would receive the majority of the power and vote. It would take alot of work to get romeo and VD to work together and challenge them. Most of leadership would be their people.

why i don't want this.

 

first it lessens our control of our destiny. we could end up a puppet to Sterling once again, like in the old days. No one wants to be sterlings little brother again. we are the newer, better plant with better work and stronger committments from the company.

 

second the overall union power would not be as beneficial to us as to sterling. their overall superiority in numbers allows them to hold sway in many of the leaderhsip situations. I've worked 9 years to get some pull within my local and now its gone. f-that, because my job will suffer

 

third we don't need to be the dumping ground for their people when their business drops off. our people worked, made comittments and got the work and now we all get moved out so sterling people can come in as their product numbers dry up. thats the plan, thats why they want to be in our plant.

 

all in all if i felt that sterling wasn't looking to shore up its financial, workforce and investment situation i'd be interested, but i don't want to have my local become invovled for the sake of making 228 a player in the UAW again.

to be honest i can see why 400 might want to be connected to one of us, but not both. they will lose any control they had that way. We'd dominate the politics and they'd struggle to get any younger people moved up. It would stgnate involvement and disenfranchise the workers.

It is nice to see we have solidairity.......as always some thinking of themselves " I've worked 9 years to get some pull within my local and now its gone. f-that, because my job will suffer" Nice!!!