THE BOSS IS BACK

[hemisbc]

THE BOSS IS BACK, yeah right, another scam

 

In Dec. 2005, the below writer, Roger Gorringe, interviewed John Force about such as his future plans in NHRA FUNNY CAR racing.

 

Roger Gorringe: Your plans for 2006, I guess it's to recapture the title?

John Force: We're in the development to build an all-Ford motor, NHRA-spec motor. We've been given the equipment by a company called Facial, Fadal Machinery Giddings and Lewis. it's a worldwide corporation that will take us into the market. We've got a big machine shop in LA. We build our own blowers, our own heads, clutches, but now we're gonna build the block. Because we want an all-Ford motor and yet we have to fit underneath the NHRA….this won't be a Chrysler design, everything evolved from the Chrysler. This will be a Ford spec motor by our brain trust, it's an exciting new time to grow because the financing's there, because who can afford to go out and buy ten million dollars worth of equipment to build machinery? I went after a sponsorship six years ago, I said I'll supply the money for the suppliers to buy the manpower, and they'll work with us with technology, and Fadal Giddings and Lewis will supply the equipment, that's two huge companies worldwide. And Ford's really into It.

 

The above excerpt is taken from about 75% down in this link:

http://www.eurodragster.com/news/john_force.asp

 

You may or may not be aware that every FC race Force ever won, his car was powered by a CHRYSLER HEMI® motor.

 

Although he did not do so while he was driving the GM bodied cars, when he switched to Ford bodies he began his implications that his car was /is powered by a Ford motor as in the below:

Here's a direct quote from John: "For all the cutting-edge, next-generation vehicles there's no place else like the LA Auto Show," Force said. "There, we can show just how much muscle Ford packs into the 7,000-horsepower Castrol GTX Ford Mustang Funny Car engine. Since 1997, Ford has been an essential part of John Force Racing. I am pleased and honored that we can bring my hot rod to the LA Auto Show and highlight Ford Racing's success and also show off a creative King of the Hill paint scheme."

 

But John, it is a CHRYSLER, not FORD, engine.

 

OK, let us fast forward to late ’06 to early ‘07 and lookee, the much anticipated, new FORD nitro engine is alive, well almost.

Here’s a link for the pictures:

http://www.dragracingonline.com/agent1320/...20-ix_1-43.html

 

Does anyone recall some 35-40 years ago when Ford made their last venture into nitro racing; what a disaster, if they didn’t explode on the starting line, odds are they would near the end of the quarter mile. In the several years of hired gun drivers, and they were about the best of that era, they won a total of 4 races before throwing in the towel.

 

Here’s where the big BOSS news really starts, and from the real horse’s mouth. This is an excerpt from the biggest of the big wheels of Ford Racing.

 

The Ford BOSS 500 Nitro Drag Racing Engine:

 

Dan Davis, director of Ford Racing Technology and racing enthusiasts know that the true heart of a race car is its engine - and wants to make sure that the “heart” that powers NHRA Funny Car Mustangs of John Force Racing is pumping “blue” blood in the future. Davis and John Medlen of John Force Racing challenged themselves to develop the new Ford BOSS 500, the first modern nitro engine for drag racing. The BOSS 500 was tested on-track for the first time on Oct. 18 and was unveiled for media today.

“We wanted to be in NHRA Funny Car with an engine that we really could call all our own,” Davis said. “I wanted people to see a Ford Mustang race car and know that it’s winning races with true Ford power.”

Davis and Medlen looked at the current nitro engine, discussed where they felt it had weaknesses, and decided to design and build a new engine to address them.

The BOSS 500 is the first nitro drag racing motor designed with analytical tools. It has a strengthened block for better durability and new cylinder heads developed by Ford and Force engineers. The basic design will favor areas such as the main caps register and the main webs in the block. Its engine block also is anodized blue after machining, helping ensure fans and competitors alike know when they’re seeing a Ford nitro engine under the hood.

Most of the external surface areas on the new 500-cubic-inch engine have been redesigned; a new belly pan was designed for better sealing; and the valve covers purposely call back the old Ford BOSS motors.

The engine also features Ford main bearings with actual parts numbers in the Ford performance catalog.

 

We had three things in mind when we set out on this project,” Davis said.

“First, for marketing purposes, we wanted to say that we were putting reality behind the term ‘Powered by Ford.’

 

“Second, on the technical side, we have always helped out with aero, chassis development and now safety, but we always stopped short of the engine. This project has been a technical exercise for our engineers and the Force team to take the current motor, redesign it and make it a Ford.

 

“Finally, we want fans to associate this engine with Ford and Force, but we also know this provides a new revenue opportunity for us,” Davis added. “In Funny Car, the plan is for this to be a John Force Racing-exclusive engine at the start, but we do want to be able to sell it to Top Fuel teams for competition in the near future.”

Davis said that the current plan is for new Force Mustang driver Mike Neff to use the Ford BOSS 500 engine full-time in 2008 as it goes through its development phase. The other Force Mustang drivers - John Force, Ashley Force and Robert Hight - will use the engine after it has been further developed.

Ford and Force Racing also are investigating a team to be the first development operation in Top Fuel, with a measured, commercial rollout to more competitors after it has gone through a prove-out stage in that division.

OK, here’s the link where the above can be found:

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/release_dis...m?release=27129

 

On 3/28/08 I attended the NHRA Houston, TX event to see a day of time trials and get my semi-annual fill of nitro fumes and hear the thundering roar of 8000 or so Horsepower engines. While there I had a chance to see and take pictures of the FORD (warmed over Chrysler) engine and have a little conversation with Mike Neff, driver of the aforementioned car.

 

I asked Mike, “Is it really a Ford or is it a warmed over Chrysler”? Mike replied, “It really is a Ford”. I then asked Mike, “Is it a “push rod hemi”? Mike replied, “Yes”. I said, “Then it really is a Chrysler wearing a Ford badge”. He then replied, “Well, it has got Ford main bearings”.

 

OK, I have a couple of pictures which show the cylinder head is a true HEMI®, plus a shot of the very unique style HEMI® rocker arms which by the way first appeared in 1951 Chrysler.

http://members.aol.com/rameffect/P1010007.jpg

 

http://members.aol.com/rameffect/P1010013.jpg

 

Neither of the two above pictures reveal anything remotely near the design of any engine ever built by Ford or any other automotive manufacturer.

 

It seems that Force/Ford want to “hang their hats” on only the engine main bearings in order to claim it is a Ford design and this brings to mind how that years ago a main/rod bearing oiling problem was solved as noted in the following excerpt and link.

 

From the start, Pete struggled with oiling system problems with the little Ford motors. The Ford, of course, was a purely passenger car based design and was never engineered to handle the kind of power output (supercharged, on gas or nitro/alcohol) that Pete's modifications produced. The result was a serious "appetite" for main and rod bearings, this problem being severely accelerated when Pete ran on fuel. (Hardly a big surprise!)

He finally solved those problems by enlarging the entire oiling system, rerouting more oil to the mains and rods, and building his own large-volume, high-pressure oil pump.

Ironically, when Pete went to the new SOHC 427 Ford "Cammer" he ran into more oil system problems, as did all the Ford Cammer racers who ran blown motors. (The injected nitro motors seemed to survive with only moderate maintenance) This caused considerable grief (Kalitta destroyed "truck loads" of SOHC 427's in the early days of running the Fords!), and Pete spent a considerable amount of time "bottom-end diving" to replace mains and rods that were "one-pass wonders."

The final cure for all those woes was the adaptation of the basic oiling system developed (also by much blood, sweat and burned bearings!) by Chrysler for the then-new 426 "Late Model" hemi motors. Ford guys also found their parts problems eased because they went to Chrysler style/size bearings and the Chrysler oiling systems.

http://www.draglist.com/hill/pete%20robinson.htm

 

You might wonder why I chose to name this little story, “THE BOSS IS BACK”. While I was at the Houston race, sitting in the stands, some kid comes up, sits right in front of me and he has on a new T-shirt with written on the back, “THE BOSS IS BACK”.

[syrtran]

HEMISBC IS BACK, yeah right, another Chrysler T/F engine scam

Troll, troll, troll your boat...

 

Once again, for others who haven't heard this tripe, yet (HemiSBC certainly isn't listening):

 

There are NO Chrysler, Ford, or Chevy engines in any of the fuel classes. They are all purpose-built castings made by small engineering firms, which are then further machined and assembled by the teams themselves. For the price of a single head, you could buy several true (aka late '60s - early '70s) Hemi engines (including spark plugs, but no trademarks!). The actual standardized design that NHRA requires, while loosely based on the '68 Hemi design, was originally created by a guy named Ed Donovan. For most of the '70s, this is how they were referred to, as "Donovan" engines. No major auto manufacturer - not Chrysler, nor Ford, nor GM, has anything to do with the design of the engines.

 

As for Force, I'd be willing to bet Ford actually let him have a bunch of dyno time, and maybe even an engineer or two with a CAD or FEA station. They do sponsor him, after all.

[Stray Kat]

The NHRA tied Force/Ford's hands. They control certain critical dimensions such as bore centers and valve angles. In true modern day form the NHRA mandates a "spec" type engine. The initial advantage of a dimensionally equal big block Ford is the wider bore spacing and greater cam to crank distance. These two factors allow more beef around the cyls and also trough the center of the block. NHRA realized very early on that these factors would be unique and would force the other racers to spend money to either change or create their own versions. I mean let's face it a nitro engine is really just a nitro pump. Tremendous blower pressures and loads of nitro. In this application two things matter, raw strength and serviceability between rounds. No doubt the Boss 500 shares some Hemi lineage. It's mandated by the rulebook. The bellhousing flange for example harkens back to the early Chrysler bell. There is no reason to change that and obsolete all the current clutch parts and technology. As far as the Ford sized 3.00" mains, well those were already in place on the earlier Rodeck designed TFX engines. If I'm not mistaken the cam journals are Ford sized as well. The lifters are 1.10" in dia. well above Ford, GM or Chrysler production specs. The front of the block sure looks like a 426 Hemi to me. I have a feeling that NHRA mandates that as well. Those magnetos should never be that close to each other if you ask me. But hey an 8BA Flathead Ford drives the ignition the same way and pretty much the same position so who's to say? Now those heads, I don't know. Dual shafts with spec valve angles. Are we supposed to call those Chrysler heads? There were Ford based heads with a very similar configuration in 1948. Had Ford produced them in numbers we'd probably not be having this debate. Yes it was an outside project by Duntov but Ford had some involvement with him and even fielded an Ardun/Ford powered Indy car. There was some hubub about AJE coming out with a new version to match the Force/Ford heads. The NHRA is like NASCAR they want an even playing field.

 

Final analysis: I'm stoked that Ford is "all in" the nitro game. I'm disappointed that the NHRA won't let Ford build a more Ford- like engine. I'm sure Ford is happy because even though the NHRA handed them a "spec" sheet they were able to rethink everything and improve the breed. After all thoses engines are just carefully carved chunks of billet aluminium. Aparently now they are descendants of the Chrysler 426 but with Ford Blue innards. That's a whole lot better than nothing!

 

[Stray Kat]

"The final cure for all those woes was the adaptation of the basic oiling system developed (also by much blood, sweat and burned bearings!) by Chrysler for the then-new 426 "Late Model" hemi motors. Ford guys also found their parts problems eased because they went to Chrysler style/size bearings and the Chrysler oiling systems."

http://www.draglist.com/hill/pete%20robinson.htm

 

 

 

Don't believe everything you read. I don't have a clue how you could adapt a Chrysler oil system to a 427 SOHC. It is a completely different block, no way you could adapt the two. I'm sure the big Fords had their fair share of bottom end problems (after all they were the most powerful nitro engines of that time). What I think what the writer is refering to is that maybe the Ford racers used a 426 Chrysler rod bearing with the corresponding aftermarket connecting rod. Smaller diameter for less surface speed and a little wider to make up for it. For everyones information Ford did a similar thing on their 427 LeMans engines. It was a standard journal diameter with about a 15% wider rod end and bearing. To put that in perspective the current NASCAR engines use a 1.88" Honda rod journal to cut friction, reduce weight. Is that a Honda oiling system now?

[Stray Kat]

Here on Comp Cams webpage they mention that the nitro 426's use a Ford sized camshaft diameter.

 

 

"Camshaft Journal Diameter

Many of the newer racing engines utilize a larger than standard cam bearing journal diameter. The advantages of the larger diameter are less flex and a larger base circle to smooth out the lobe design, making this a very desirable addition to any extreme racing engine. It is very common to use a 2.125” Ford babbit bearing in the Hemi engine. Some of the latest oval track blocks feature a roller bearing and require a 1.968” journal diameter. Make sure to specify journal size when ordering your cam. If no special size is requested, the standard journal will be chosen."

[goinbroke2]

Just when he was convincing himself that the hemi is the all mighty you come and give him a dose of reality! Shame on you Stray kat!

 

Funny how pro stock changed the bore centre limits to ford big blck spec, which gm (and now mopar) have copied. Also the cam height, I remember having a bench session with a guy who swore the BBC was superior to a BBF because the shorter chain wouldn't whip as much so you could produce more power. (and no, he didn't know about spark scatter or the effects of running 100lb's of oil pressure causing it)

[hemisbc]

Anyone that does not recognize this as a Chrysler HEMI® should not be discussing nitro racing and as Roy Davis, winner of the first ever NHRA AA Gas Dragster Nat'l Championship once said, "The horsepower is made above the head gaskets."

The sketch of the ARDUN?? is not a HEMI combustion chamber. AND Ford had no more to do with the engineering of the ARDUN than they did the Cosworth.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov

 

[Edstock]

That Ardun sure looks like a hemispherical combustion chamber, like that on a Rolls Merlin or Griffon, or like a hemispherical combustion chamber on the 1914 Peugeot GP car, which, IIRC, was the first DOHC chain-driven 4-valve hemi. In Europe, Henry and Ricardo had that down pat before 1920; probably Mercedes, too.

[syrtran]

Anyone that does not recognize this as a Chrysler HEMI® ...

You're confusing people. The HEMI® with the "®" symbol is a new engine, somewhat of a follow-on to the LA engine (i.e. a "small-block"), is a semi-hemi, and is not suitable for T/F or F/C. The true "Hemi" without the "®" symbol that Ed Donovan used the valvetrain from 40 years ago was based on the big RB block.

 

As to the picture, well, all I see is some rocker arms that more than likely are not 30+ years old and - wait! I didn't realize Chrysler engines came with twin magnetos! If not, then what's underneath that hardware is debatable. It could be Keith Black, it could be Donovan, heck it could be some guy with his own foundry that only Force knows about (yeah, right). The only thing I'm sure of is it's not a MoPar as their crate engines are not Nitromethane capable.

[Roadrunner]

Interesting.

[Stray Kat]

Anyone that does not recognize this as a Chrysler HEMI® should not be discussing nitro racing and as Roy Davis, winner of the first ever NHRA AA Gas Dragster Nat'l Championship once said, "The horsepower is made above the head gaskets."

The sketch of the ARDUN?? is not a HEMI combustion chamber. AND Ford had no more to do with the engineering of the ARDUN than they did the Cosworth.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zora_Arkus-Duntov

 

 

 

No, I think I clearly stated that the new Force/Ford is similar to the TFX which is a descendant of the 426 Hemi. No one can deny that. What we are saying is that Ford along with Team Force have redesigned the status quo (within the rules) enough to call it their own. In fact if we want to be honest, what really remains of the original 426 hemi that can we attribute to Chrysler? Well I'd say dual rocker shafts and possibly valve angles. Everything else has been redesigned. Don't get me wrong the 426 was a great engine but you must admit Ford was going toe to toe with them when the factories were involved and factory parts were employed, not replicas. If I'm not mistaken the great Don Prudohmme (sp?) piloted a Ford 427 SOHC dragster to the first ever 6 second run in NHRA competition. Mickey Thompson's "Blue car" `69 Mustang went undefeated in 1969 with a 427 SOHC as motive power. Another example was "Ohio" George Montgomery and his Willys, and Mustang AA/GS machines. He did more than his share of winning with a 427 SOHC and then a Boss 429 for power. In fact you can attribute the basic "Funny Car" concept to an "inhouse" Ford project which fielded flip top Comets to the likes of Don Nicholson and Jack Chrisman etc. in 1966.

 

The Ardun crossection I posted is in fact a true hemi combustion chamber. What you see in the photo are the flat surfaces of the valve faces giving the illusion of a "pentroof" chamber.

 

Hemi do you remember a AA/AD named Rich Santos? We he and his team fielded a very unusual combo and bombed the class for a long time. For those that don't know he ran a 370 or so inch all small block chevy. Most of his competition was replica hemis with a lot more displacement. Santos was a chevy guy and took advantage of the weight breaks given to small wedge engines like the sbc. Well for some reason the NHRA got tired of Santo's winning ways and started to factor his combination to a point where it was no longer an advantage to run. Later he went to a BAE hemi and continued his winning ways. The part that bothers me is they killed the class. Here you had a giant killer, a true David and Goliath situation, a reason not to get up and go to the concession stand when the alcohol cars are running, and they take the guy out. Ken Veney did the same thing with a Ford 351C powered dragster in the mid- 80's. Only Veney did it with factory iron heads and block. This is an example of why I boycott the NHRA. Until they allow innovation and get away from the politics I wont spend my precious few entertainment dollars with them. The only thing that the NHRA has gotten right is the inclusion of V- Twin motorcycles in PSM. Now they have to find a way to make them look more believeable and less like spaceships! BYW the classic Harley- Davidson engine is a pushrod hemi vee engine so you should love `em.

 

 

A 4.6 Ford in blown alcohol trim.....

 

 

The "Blue car".....

 

 

"Sneaky" Pete Robinson (factory block and heads). Pete worked out the timing issues and was really showing what the 427 SOHC could do, before his untimely death. RIP

 

 

 

[Stray Kat]

Here is a SOHC with modern components like the blower, ignition and fuel pump. Now there is also a purpose built block that can handle the wrath of blown alcohol racing. It would be keen to see a resurgence of the 427 SOHC.....

 

 

[therealmrmustang]

A 4.6 Ford in blown alcohol trim.....

 

 

 

Is there a larger photo of this bad boy? It would be much appreciated... Thanks!

[hemisbc]

Troll, troll, troll your boat...

 

Once again, for others who haven't heard this tripe, yet (HemiSBC certainly isn't listening):

 

There are NO Chrysler, Ford, or Chevy engines in any of the fuel classes. They are all purpose-built castings made by small engineering firms, which are then further machined and assembled by the teams themselves. For the price of a single head, you could buy several true (aka late '60s - early '70s) Hemi engines (including spark plugs, but no trademarks!). The actual standardized design that NHRA requires, while loosely based on the '68 Hemi design, was originally created by a guy named Ed Donovan. For most of the '70s, this is how they were referred to, as "Donovan" engines. No major auto manufacturer - not Chrysler, nor Ford, nor GM, has anything to do with the design of the engines.

 

As for Force, I'd be willing to bet Ford actually let him have a bunch of dyno time, and maybe even an engineer or two with a CAD or FEA station. They do sponsor him, after all.

 

You should not post about something that you know nothing about.

[hemisbc]

You're confusing people. The HEMI® with the "®" symbol is a new engine, somewhat of a follow-on to the LA engine (i.e. a "small-block"), is a semi-hemi, and is not suitable for T/F or F/C. The true "Hemi" without the "®" symbol that Ed Donovan used the valvetrain from 40 years ago was based on the big RB block.

 

As to the picture, well, all I see is some rocker arms that more than likely are not 30+ years old and - wait! I didn't realize Chrysler engines came with twin magnetos! If not, then what's underneath that hardware is debatable. It could be Keith Black, it could be Donovan, heck it could be some guy with his own foundry that only Force knows about (yeah, right). The only thing I'm sure of is it's not a MoPar as their crate engines are not Nitromethane capable.

 

Again, you should not post argumentively about something you know nothing about; someone might believe you.

Edited April 11, 2008 by hemisbc

[hemisbc]

The NHRA tied Force/Ford's hands. They control certain critical dimensions such as bore centers and valve angles. In true modern day form the NHRA mandates a "spec" type engine. The initial advantage of a dimensionally equal big block Ford is the wider bore spacing and greater cam to crank distance. These two factors allow more beef around the cyls and also trough the center of the block. NHRA realized very early on that these factors would be unique and would force the other racers to spend money to either change or create their own versions. I mean let's face it a nitro engine is really just a nitro pump. Tremendous blower pressures and loads of nitro. In this application two things matter, raw strength and serviceability between rounds. No doubt the Boss 500 shares some Hemi lineage. It's mandated by the rulebook. The bellhousing flange for example harkens back to the early Chrysler bell. There is no reason to change that and obsolete all the current clutch parts and technology. As far as the Ford sized 3.00" mains, well those were already in place on the earlier Rodeck designed TFX engines. If I'm not mistaken the cam journals are Ford sized as well. The lifters are 1.10" in dia. well above Ford, GM or Chrysler production specs. The front of the block sure looks like a 426 Hemi to me. I have a feeling that NHRA mandates that as well. Those magnetos should never be that close to each other if you ask me. But hey an 8BA Flathead Ford drives the ignition the same way and pretty much the same position so who's to say? Now those heads, I don't know. Dual shafts with spec valve angles. Are we supposed to call those Chrysler heads? There were Ford based heads with a very similar configuration in 1948. Had Ford produced them in numbers we'd probably not be having this debate. Yes it was an outside project by Duntov but Ford had some involvement with him and even fielded an Ardun/Ford powered Indy car. There was some hubub about AJE coming out with a new version to match the Force/Ford heads. The NHRA is like NASCAR they want an even playing field.

 

Final analysis: I'm stoked that Ford is "all in" the nitro game. I'm disappointed that the NHRA won't let Ford build a more Ford- like engine. I'm sure Ford is happy because even though the NHRA handed them a "spec" sheet they were able to rethink everything and improve the breed. After all thoses engines are just carefully carved chunks of billet aluminium. Aparently now they are descendants of the Chrysler 426 but with Ford Blue innards. That's a whole lot better than nothing!

 

 

I would think it very likely that FORD themselves were the root cause for NHRA to add the specs to the engine rules. Ford had all the embarrassment in TF racing that they wanted.

 

To say that the 500 shares some of the Chrysler Hemi® lineage is a gross understatement. It is really no more than a scam.

 

Once again, the power is made above the head gaskets, everything else is just along for the ride. EVERYTHING ELSE IS JUST ALONG FOR THE RIDE.

 

"All in", "all in"?, in the Funny Car class I would guess that Ford puts more $$$$$ in that class than all the other manufacturers combined.

 

You see NHRA MUST have the Ford fan to survive and Funny Car is the only class where a Ford fan can feel good about and the great majority of them believe Force's implications.

 

And by the way, I would bet a few coins that Ford was behind NHRA giving the PRO-BIKE V-twins the great cubic inch and weight advantage. HD alone could not have had that kind of power to force NHRA.

 

Oh, by the way, I suspect the draftsman did not do a good job on the sketch of the Ardun in that it looks like a pent roof, and I doubt the valves being as big as they appear.

 

Final analysis: the design of the 1951 Chrysler Hemi® has always made more power than could be utilized in nitro FC and TF racing; so why would anyone fool around with anything else.

[hemisbc]

"""""""""""""""""""Just when he was convincing himself that the hemi is the all mighty you come and give him a dose of reality! Shame on you Stray kat!""""""""""

 

Neither should you post argumentively about something you know nothing about; someone might believe you

[syrtran]

You should not post about something that you know nothing about.

So, no "facts" to counter my "wild speculation?"

 

I may not follow the sport as closely now as I did back when some kid named Bernstein was looking to knock Prudhomme off the top of the ladder, or when Pro Stock was terrorized by a couple guys with a 4-door Maverick, or when Funny Cars still used a Logghe chassis, but I do know that factory engines were gone from T/F and F/C long before either the 5-second or 280MPH barriers were broken.

 

Final analysis: the design of the 1951 Chrysler Hemi® has always made more power than could be utilized in nitro FC and TF racing; so why would anyone fool around with anything else.

:hysterical:

Um, what part of 6000 HP (NOT a misprint) have you deluded yourself into thinking a '51 Chrysler soft iron Hemi could put out? That's more horsepower than a CSX or BN or UP EMD SD-45 road locomotive puts out.

 

You might be surprised to learn (again) that Chrysler did not invent the hemispherical head design.

Edited April 12, 2008 by syrtran

[hemisbc]

syrtran>>>>"""As for Force, I'd be willing to bet Ford actually let him have a bunch of dyno time, and maybe even an engineer or two with a CAD or FEA station. They do sponsor him, after all.""""""

 

So, how much would you want to bet, but then perhaps Ford and Force were the first to try this. And my guess is the only factory engineers that ever knew anything about drag racing were the RAMCHARGERS.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel#Performance

 

The “Ramchargers” were a famed drag racing team that help developed the funny car class in the sixties and well into the seventies. The “Ramchargers” were a group of Chrysler engineers that raced on the side using the best of Chrysler engineering. The team ran a series of race cars including an altered ‘49 Chrysler to a plethora of stockers and super stockers. Within the group of the Ramchargers that included Dick Maxwell, Tom Hoover, Phil Goulet, Don Westerdale, Jim Thorton, and many others, began the early development of the funny car.

The Ramchargers were one of the first teams to have the 2% Super Stockers. The 2% led to the next stage of the radical altered wheelbased funny cars. The Coronet in the photos is said to be one of the first FCs into the eights, if not the first ever! Jim Thorton drove the car to a great 8.925, 150.75 at Cecil County in 1965. The Coronet was feared by many and rightly so. The car was one of the first well-known funny cars and one of the stars of the first Super Stock Nationals at York, PA, in 1965. (Photo provided by Drag Racing Memories; info provided by James Ibusuki and www.draglist.com)

 

 

http://www.google.com/search?q=The+Ramchar...art=10&sa=N

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

__________________

[coupe3w]

Jack Roush was part of the Ford Engineering group called "The Fastbacks" in 1966...

 

 

 

http://www.roushracing.com/jack-roush-bio

[hemisbc]

Jack Roush was part of the Ford Engineering group called "The Fastbacks" in 1966...

 

 

 

http://www.roushracing.com/jack-roush-bio

 

Except for the Longhorns and Aggies football teams, Roush could be considered the world's No. 1 underachiever; considering the last 15 or so years he's had access to tremendous Ford resources.

Whenever Roush is mentioned the first thing I think of is cheating.

[Stray Kat]

Finally found the Ken Veney 351C AA/AD pics. They fell in my lap from the 335 Series forum. Anyway here you go, cast iron block and heads. Production parts get`in it done. The thread that these pics were found in reminded me that at the time of Veney's Ford 351C powered dragster you had Clevelands winning in Pro Stock, A/D, and Competition Eliminator. The Ford Cleveland is the closest thing to the ultimate small block. That's probably why all the current NASCAR V8's resemble it. Big breathing in a compact package. Tough to beat.

 

Check out the wrinkle walls!

 

 

Notice that the Cleveland Ford is ahead of the Hemi. That's Dale Armstrong in the other lane no less.

 

[hemisbc]

More about Ken Veney and he also was into TRACTOR PULLING.

 

http://www.nhra.com/50th/top50/k_veney46.html

[Sizzler]

Oh, by the way, I suspect the draftsman did not do a good job on the sketch of the Ardun in that it looks like a pent roof, and I doubt the valves being as big as they appear.

 

You're full of coprolitic material.

 

There's a picture here of an Ardun chamber, it looks pretty hemispherical to me.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi_engine

 

Go troll your line somewhere else.

[hemisbc]

You're full of coprolitic material.

 

There's a picture here of an Ardun chamber, it looks pretty hemispherical to me.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemi_engine

 

Go troll your line somewhere else.

Sizzler should learn to read and comprehend (understand) before calling people names.