jpd80 Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) Can you show me the article where it says the proposed EU CO2 Fine regime has been passed and ratified? I can only find articles saying it is proposed to commence in 2012. The proposal is unworkable and all the fines will be passed onto people, no matter how big they are. The EU is so stupid, they really think another tax will work - it just hurts ordinary people and drives up the cost of food and transport. There is no way in a pink fit the Germans will accept this - if they opt out, the precious EU will collapse. Edited April 12, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) There is no way in a pink fit the Germans will accept this I just read an article in Automotive News Europe regarding negotiations between Germany and France (actually representatives for the leaders of both countries) to resolve the impasse over CO2, and the meetings were ended with the two sides at polar ends in their positions. In fact, a meeting between the leaders had to be cancelled, as its purpose was to ratify the agreement that was never reached. There is a tremendous amount of posturing going on from both sides of the issue - the EU leaders insisting that the limits will be imposed, that there is no reason to not proceed...while the Germans in particular are just as adamant that the limits as written are not doable for their product lines without undermining the essence of their product's heart and soul. Fun times in Europe in the auto biz! Edited April 12, 2008 by Harley Lover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edstock Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) Fun times in Europe in the auto biz! And that's an understatement, LOL! Product planning for what you want to build 5-10 years from now is virtually impossible, until the CO2 hoo-ha is really settled.. Edited April 12, 2008 by Edstock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) The Germans have traditionally paid CAFE fines and passed on to the consumers, the EU fines are so steep that this makes the vehicles unmarketable, lots of models will disappear!!! While it's true the new CO2 regulations are averaged across a manufacturers' total sales, anything larger than a 1.6 TDi Focus will need to be Hybrids to comply. Manufacturers need more time to develop passive hybrids with regen braking. Edited April 12, 2008 by jpd80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray101988 Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Global Rear Wheel Drive, similar to what GM's Zeta is supposed to be. Is it going to be any different then what the mustang uses or will it be the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Jellymoulds Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 (edited) The Germans have traditionally paid CAFE fines and passed on to the consumers, the EU fines are so steep that this makes the vehicles unmarketable, lots of models will disappear!!! While it's true the new CO2 regulations are averaged across a manufacturers' total sales, anything larger than a 1.6 TDi Focus will need to be Hybrids to comply. Manufacturers need more time to develop passive hybrids with regen braking. You right JPD big hybrids like the Lexus have escaped paying the congestion charge in London. EU want to have C02 legislation sorted out by July and legislation made law by Jan 09 at the latest. Finally, the report proposes a "Carbon Allowance Reductions System (CARS)", to be introduced in 2011, under which carmakers would have to pay penalties for exceeding the emission limits. Such penalties "may be offset by redeemable credits awarded to newly-registered passenger cars" (from the same manufacturer), with emissions below the limit values. Information on vehicle emission performance should be made available to the public. The report, to be put to a plenary vote in November, was adopted with 49 votes in favour, 3 against, and one abstention. So the Germans will have to do what rest have voted in. http://www.futurdeleurope.parlament.gv.at/.../default_en.htm EU latest on Co2 limits http://ec.europa.eu/environment/co2/co2_home.htm Ford Mondeo While the baby Beemer may have swept up the previous model's sales, there is no discounting the quality of the new Ford Mondeo, which looks to take the fight straight to the new 3 Series. If you own the hot 2.5-litre petrol engine version – with 222g/km of CO2 emissions – you'll pay £210 a year, rising to £300 next year. Buy a 2.5-litre Mondeo in 2010-11 and you'll pay the first-year 'showroom tax' of £550, followed by an annual £310 bill. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/CARS...lling_cars.html Ford Mondeo 2.5- litre gasoline Road Tax (Paid every year to drive on UK roads) $600 Showroom Tax (Tax on buying high CO2) $1,100 EU Fine 2015 Mondeo (Ford pay fine for producing high CO2, 95 Euros fine x 92 grammes above proposed 130g limit ) EU Fine on every Mondeo 2.5-litre Ford sells $13,827 London congestion charge $51 a day Ford Focus 1.6 Econetic diesel 52 US MPG Road Tax - $60 free after 2010 Showroom tax - 0 EU Fine - 0 Congestion charge each day - 0 Edited April 13, 2008 by Ford Jellymoulds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harley Lover Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 A really good article from the DN that lays out the potential costs in fines for the European manufacturers under the forthcoming CO2 laws: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...304/1148/AUTO01 This article is an important read, as the issues faced by the manufacturers (and the solutions they select) will be illustrative of some of the approaches that might be selected by manufacturers in the US market to meet the 2020 levels decreed by government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extreme4x4 Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 It sounds like the UK is doing to drivers, the same as they did to gun owners. Basically, they have started eliminating cars................ completely. Eventually, it will be economically impossible for anyone, other than rich people, to own and drive a car there. I think the Germans would pull out of the UK, before giving in to requirements that would cause virtually every vehicle produced in their country, to be unobtainable. On a side note, what knee jerk regulations will be implemented as soon as the next "ice age" starts. You know, in about 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 Those regulations don't start for another 3.5 years yet. All of FoE's vehicles are smallish efficient vehicles, I don't believe they'd have much problem staying in front of the CO2 penalties, even if they imported small numbers of Falcons. If as Ford Jellymoulds says, Ford are bringing out impressive Econetic diesel in small cars, that then offsets their other cars that don't fit under the envelope. Importing up to 10,000 vehicles wouldn't make that much difference to Ford Europes' 2012 emissions tally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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