59 Flexes and 50 MKS built last week

[Edstock]

There simply are not 'lines running amok' on the Edge.

Right, RJ. Everybody looks, far fewer see.

[RichardJensen]

ONE FORD.

 

Not ONE FORD (and North America).

There is precious little cost savings to be had in sharing sheetmetal. Ford should absolutely share where it makes sense (platforms, transmissions, wiring, instrumentation, stereos, etc.) and not where it doesn't ("gee, we're selling the same car in Frankfurt and Peoria!!!!")

 

There is only ONE company that sells substantially the same vehicles in both Europe and NA.

 

VW.

 

You tell me how well VW's doing in the US.

[Deanh]

Well, no. The Flex is a useless vehicle and a complete waste of money.

but the Taurus has a better face than the Taurus?????...oh, Flex order book is FULL......LOT of interest....whether that translates into solid sales numbers I don't know...but initial prospects look good.

[NickF1011]

1) The 2010 Taurus would NOT have 'some overdone variation of the 3-bar grille tacked on', it, like the Edge and Flex, would have been designed from the ground up to reflect the NA design language.

 

2) As far as discontinuity on the Edge grille, I beg to differ. There are, in fact, no unresolved lines on the Edge's face, unless one chooses to make an issue of the bumper air intake.

 

Note the resolutions of just about every line on the Edge's face:

 

1 top of headlights/grille resolves in character line carried around entire vehicle.

2 headlight/grille separation carries through bumper and down to lower intake/foglight surround separation.

3 gap in lowest bar of the grille carried through to 'step up' on headlight

4 lower air intake edge carried to foglight surround

5 bumper character line carried around vehicle

6 outer edge of foglight surround matches line from outer edge of headlight

7 bumper fascia cutline matches gap between top and 2nd bars in grille

8 hood cutline matches stepped in headlight.

 

There simply are not 'lines running amok' on the Edge.

 

1. If you're talking about getting something "ground up" that looks akin the Interceptor, no thanks. Based on the direction the "Dave" concepts were heading with things like the Interceptor, it's a good thing we're getting rid of it while we still can!!!

 

2. I never said there was discontinuity on the Edge. It has a lot of continuity in the design, but that's the only one that does. If you're going to keep a "Dave" design in the US, it HAS to be throughout the entire vehicle's design, which means you're going to have to spend a lot of money giving every vehicle sold here and in other markets completely different sheet metal to pull off the look. That's just not in the cards for Mulally's "One Ford" mantra.

 

My bad about the lines run amok remark. I meant to say FLEX. I don't care how much the nose of that thing goes with the rest of the design. The front of that thing is busy and ugly.

Edited May 15, 2008 by NickF1011

[danup]

I think the 2010 Taurus's grille is ill-served by the grainy photo as far as its Daveness goes; I think they'll look less Plymouth Breeze and more 09 F-150 platinum once actual photos surface, which is more American-influenced. That said I wish the top two bars continued to the headlamps, a la the 2010 Fusion.

[Ron W.]

I didn't correct you...I just don't know what an "adress" is...

 

 

Womens clothing for when your space bar is non functional..... :shades:

[NickF1011]

There is only ONE company that sells substantially the same vehicles in both Europe and NA.

 

VW.

 

You tell me how well VW's doing in the US.

 

And tell me exactly how VW's practice of sharing sheet metal in both markets has ANY bearing whatsoever on their success or lack thereof in North America....

 

And as far as I can tell, BMW and Mercedes share sheet metal all the live long day in both markets to much success.

[RichardJensen]

1. If you're talking about getting something "ground up" that looks akin the Interceptor, no thanks. Based on the direction the "Dave" concepts were heading with things like the Interceptor, it's a good thing we're getting rid of it while we still can!!!

Yeah, but you LOVE the new Mazda 6. Any Ford that appeals to you is likely to look LIKE a Mazda, and, therefore, raises a huge question about whose interests are served if Ford starts designing vehicles that look like Mazdas.

 

BTW, if this is the kinetic Edge you're talking about:

 

 

All I can say is that it looks more like the Mazdas--squashed grille and oversized lower air intake.

 

And that is my key point: You like Mazdas and dislike Fords, therefore, Ford moving its design language to something you prefer means they are, basically, getting into Mazda territory, and again, how does this help Ford?

[RichardJensen]

And tell me exactly how VW's practice of sharing sheet metal in both markets has ANY bearing whatsoever on their success or lack thereof in North America....

 

And as far as I can tell, BMW and Mercedes share sheet metal all the live long day in both markets to much success.

How has it HELPED them? The premise is that Ford will be HELPED by sharing sheetmetal across the Atlantic. So I ask, in all fairness, if an example can be produced to show how this practice has benefited another car company.

 

In fact, Honda has seen fit to divorce its US and EU vehicles stylistically, going so far as to build the EU Accord a size smaller than the US model.

 

And, beg pardon, but I forgot to qualify that only one ENTRY LEVEL company shares sheetmetal across the Atlantic. BMW & Mercedes are not comparable to Ford.

[P71_CrownVic]

whether that translates into solid sales numbers I don't know...but initial prospects look good.

 

I hope the Flex fails worse than the Chevy SSR. Then...maybe...Ford will realize that it was stupid to spend all of that time and money developing a seven seat station wagon, when they already have a seven seat station wagon.

[P71_CrownVic]

 

Not bad...but the goofy three-bar needs to go.

[Deanh]

I hope the Flex fails worse than the Chevy SSR. Then...maybe...Ford will realize that it was stupid to spend all of that time and money developing a seven seat station wagon, when they already have a seven seat station wagon.

comparing an SSR to a Flex is pushing it P the Flex appeals to a far broader base than a 2 seat gold chain Persol mid life crisus pimp mobile, and if you are comparing the Flex to the X, all i can say is watch the sales #'s comparisons......Flex isn't going to fail P....even you may raise an eyebrow when they shoehorn in the 3.5 Eco-boost that performs damn near as well as the challenger....( least in a straight line )

[P71_CrownVic]

comparing an SSR to a Flex is pushing it P the Flex appeals to a far broader base than a 2 seat gold chain Persol mid life crisus pimp mobile, and if you are comparing the Flex to the X, all i can say is watch the sales #'s comparisons......Flex isn't going to fail P....even you may raise an eyebrow when they shoehorn in the 3.5 Eco-boost that performs damn near as well as the challenger....( least in a straight line )

I was only comparing it to the SSR in terms of how bad it should fail. Of course the Flexible will have higher sales than the T-X...they have already advertised the Flexible more than the T-X and Freestyle combined.

 

Like I said before, the Flexible SHOULD fail because Ford already has an amazing 7-seat station wagon on the market...and it is bigger. But once again, rather than just put air in the tire, Ford decided it was better to re-invent the wheel...and the result is a ugly, boxy, lengthened Scion xB...that offers nothing special.

 

And there is only one company that can get away with making a insanely fast station wagon and that is Mercedes. There is nothing cooler than a station wagon that can eat Mustangs GT-500s and Corvettes for breakfast.

 

E63 AMG FTW...

 

Edited May 15, 2008 by P71_CrownVic

[Edstock]

And there is only one company that can get away with making a insanely fast station wagon and that is Mercedes. There is nothing cooler than a station wagon that can eat Mustangs GT-500s and Corvettes for breakfast. E63 AMG FTW...

Blow it out your ear, or any other orifice you happen to have.

 

 

If there's anything the 580-horsepower Audi RS6 Avant isn't lacking, it's power. But according to AutoTelegraaf, Audi plans to launch a "Plus" version of its insane estate towards the end of the RS6 life cycle. According to the Dutch site, Audi insiders said that a new "Plus" version would go on sale sometime in 2011, just as the A6 is about to get a mild facelift. The "Plus" will supposedly receive tweaks to its suspension and engine, with the V10 producing 613 horsepower.

 

This wouldn't be the first time Audi offered a "Plus" variant of the RS6. The original, C5-based RS6, built from 2002 to 2004, got a boost in output during the last three months of production, netting an additional 30 hp (from 450 hp to 480 hp), through the use of a remapped ECU and two additional radiators mounted behind the intercoolers. The Plus version also benefited from standard DRC, 19-inch wheels and a sports suspension that dropped the wagon 10mm. Production was limited to just 999 units.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/15/rumormi...rful-rs6-avant/

[silvrsvt]

I was only comparing it to the SSR in terms of how bad it should fail. Of course the Flexible will have higher sales than the T-X...they have already advertised the Flexible more than the T-X and Freestyle combined.

 

Like I said before, the Flexible SHOULD fail because Ford already has an amazing 7-seat station wagon on the market...and it is bigger. But once again, rather than just put air in the tire, Ford decided it was better to re-invent the wheel...and the result is a ugly, boxy, lengthened Scion xB...that offers nothing special.

 

I guess your gonna go down in flames just like the Edge prediction here....

[Deanh]

I was only comparing it to the SSR in terms of how bad it should fail. Of course the Flexible will have higher sales than the T-X...they have already advertised the Flexible more than the T-X and Freestyle combined.

 

Like I said before, the Flexible SHOULD fail because Ford already has an amazing 7-seat station wagon on the market...and it is bigger. But once again, rather than just put air in the tire, Ford decided it was better to re-invent the wheel...and the result is a ugly, boxy, lengthened Scion xB...that offers nothing special.

 

And there is only one company that can get away with making a insanely fast station wagon and that is Mercedes. There is nothing cooler than a station wagon that can eat Mustangs GT-500s and Corvettes for breakfast.

 

E63 AMG FTW...

 

perspective P...E63...how many Benjamins?????? And pray WHICH Ford vehicle in the current ford linup do you think the Flex will compete with....and I understand you think its ugly...i personally hate some of fords other offering style wise anyways...but taste are totally subjective...will you lose sleep when the Flex lives up to its expectations...or god forbid exceeds them?

[NickF1011]

Yeah, but you LOVE the new Mazda 6. Any Ford that appeals to you is likely to look LIKE a Mazda, and, therefore, raises a huge question about whose interests are served if Ford starts designing vehicles that look like Mazdas.

 

BTW, if this is the kinetic Edge you're talking about:

 

 

All I can say is that it looks more like the Mazdas--squashed grille and oversized lower air intake.

 

And that is my key point: You like Mazdas and dislike Fords, therefore, Ford moving its design language to something you prefer means they are, basically, getting into Mazda territory, and again, how does this help Ford?

 

Eh, the only Mazda designs I really like are the 6 and CX7. I like a lot more Ford designs. Mustang, Edge, Escape, Expedition and a few others I like just fine. That said, I prefer to many of those the Kuga, Mondeo, and what I've seen of the '10 Taurus.

[NickF1011]

How has it HELPED them? The premise is that Ford will be HELPED by sharing sheetmetal across the Atlantic. So I ask, in all fairness, if an example can be produced to show how this practice has benefited another car company.

 

In fact, Honda has seen fit to divorce its US and EU vehicles stylistically, going so far as to build the EU Accord a size smaller than the US model.

 

And, beg pardon, but I forgot to qualify that only one ENTRY LEVEL company shares sheetmetal across the Atlantic. BMW & Mercedes are not comparable to Ford.

 

The only reason Honda has distanced itself in design is because they offer completely different vehicles here. Those that are shared like the Civic still look pretty much the same.

 

How has it helped? Well, the only thing that can be quantified is money is ultimately saved by designing and producing separate stampings for different markets.

 

If it can't be shown that it HELPS to offer DIFFERENT appearances in different markets, then I can't see how it's really worth the effort.

[P71_CrownVic]

 

Very nice...but I would still rather have the Benz.

 

I guess your gonna go down in flames just like the Edge prediction here....

 

Why is that?

 

Where did I say that the Flexible was going to fail?

[RichardJensen]

If it can't be shown that it HELPS to offer DIFFERENT appearances in different markets, then I can't see how it's really worth the effort.

I would cite the dramatically different customer clinic response to the 427 faced Fusion vs. the Mondeo faced Fusion. That's attested to by Ford reps speaking on the record. Sure, it's not the same as an unbiased study of the broader public, still, it carries weight with me.

 

The follow-on for me as a fan of 'pure' design is that I don't want Ford's NA stuff to be gauded up EU stuff, which is what I'm afraid we're in for (as that's basically what the Fusion is and it seems to work with the public at large).

 

I want pure design, not chrome grins on euro designs.

 

AND, BTW, pure design on the Continent is tough to find too. There are presently only two true Kinetic designs, the Kuga & Mondeo. The Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max (as well as the updated Focus) all have decided New Edge touches to them, while the Verve is not yet in production.

 

Ford, honestly, hasn't had a cohesive design aesthetic since the early Telnack years, and as a fan of good design, that's a disappointment to me. More still since they had something, and they're walking away from it.

 

Also, as a 'closed gestalt' fan, the abandonment of that for the open gestalt 'kinetic' language bothers me. Too few companies are doing 'closed gestalt' well, even though that aesthetic has underlied some of the most memorable cars ever built.

Edited May 16, 2008 by RichardJensen

[BORG]

I would cite the dramatically different customer clinic response to the 427 faced Fusion vs. the Mondeo faced Fusion. That's attested to by Ford reps speaking on the record. Sure, it's not the same as an unbiased study of the broader public, still, it carries weight with me.

 

The follow-on for me as a fan of 'pure' design is that I don't want Ford's NA stuff to be gauded up EU stuff, which is what I'm afraid we're in for (as that's basically what the Fusion is and it seems to work with the public at large).

 

I want pure design, not chrome grins on euro designs.

 

AND, BTW, pure design on the Continent is tough to find too. There are presently only two true Kinetic designs, the Kuga & Mondeo. The Galaxy, S-Max and C-Max (as well as the updated Focus) all have decided New Edge touches to them, while the Verve is not yet in production.

 

Ford, honestly, hasn't had a cohesive design aesthetic since the early Telnack years, and as a fan of good design, that's a disappointment to me. More still since they had something, and they're walking away from it.

 

Also, as a 'closed gestalt' fan, the abandonment of that for the open gestalt 'kinetic' language bothers me. Too few companies are doing 'closed gestalt' well, even though that aesthetic has underlied some of the most memorable cars ever built.

 

 

I agree, wholeheartedly, yes yes yes yes!

[RichardJensen]

And, just for the heck of it, the Talbot Lago.

 

 

 

 

As beautiful a car as has ever been built, and a classic example of 'closed gestalt' design.

[RichardJensen]

I mean really, any car that can make the Bugatti Atlantic seem ungainly is a car indeed....

 

[Cougarpower]

Yeah. Ford never should have put vertical bars on grilles of cars. They should go back to their successes and look at the grille styles they used.

 

 

Oh wait.....

 

Oh wait :happy feet:

[silvrsvt]

Why is that?

 

Where did I say that the Flexible was going to fail?

 

Can't even remeber your own posts?

 

I was only comparing it to the SSR in terms of how bad it should fail. Of course the Flexible will have higher sales than the T-X...they have already advertised the Flexible more than the T-X and Freestyle combined.

 

Like I said before, the Flexible SHOULD fail because Ford already has an amazing 7-seat station wagon on the market...and it is bigger. But once again, rather than just put air in the tire, Ford decided it was better to re-invent the wheel...and the result is a ugly, boxy, lengthened Scion xB...that offers nothing special.