Odyssey problem...

[marc-o]

Agreed. In the case of the Ridgeline, no one knows how bad the Ridgeline is more than Honda and they will take another shot at it, just like they did the second Civic, the second Accord, CR-V, and especially the Ody, which went from a laughable half station wagon to benchmark vehicle in less than three years.

 

Dismissing the competion and blowing things out of proportion in order to create a happy little world, well, that's how Ford and GM got to where they are in the market now.

 

Exactly.

 

I know of plenty of shortcomings of Honda products, Toyota products, just like Fords have their weakpoints. But some of these things being brought up are CLEARLY being blown out of proportion, and criticism for the sake of criticism is not the way to win over any support.

[bec5150]

Ironically I have a neighbor a few houses down who in casual conversation went on to mention he was going car shopping. I asked what he was shopping for, and he pretty much has his eyes set on the Acura TL. He currently has a 98 CL 2.3. I asked how come...Mentions to me it had already 130K miles, the A/C compressor blew out around 80K (typical for Honda), both power window motors are about to die (going up rather slow), radio has electrical issues, sometimes the power lock works, sometimes doesnt. Had the tranny rebuilt around 95K, and he wants to dump it before the timing belt snaps.

 

So after that extensive list of things gone wrong, I COULD have asked, "WHY go back to the same manufacturer after such a bad experience?". BUT, sometimes it's better to shut up when someones mind is made. Anyhow, a few minutes later he asked about mine and that he heard from antoher neighbor that I'm on my 3rd LS, to which I answered "I just haven't had any issues with them and my previous one had 140K miles when I turned it in, issue-free and spotless maintenence book as well".

 

But did I recommend it to him...Hell no... I'll have to hear it for the next few years if something in it DID go wrong. I just stated if the Acura worked for him, and he was happy after his experience, then I don't see why not to stick to them.... Unlike family members, I rather not piss off a neighbor.

First thing's first. The car is a CL 2.2, not 2.3. The timing belt was supposed to be replaced by 90-100K. It's just like any engine that uses a timing belt. Remember the ole Pinto 2.3 that evolved to the Ranger 2.5 and was one of the best engines Ford ever made? Uses a timing belt that need to be replaced as well.

 

Second, my CR-V has been less reliable than my Ranger, but the dealer has given me a loaner and fixed it right the first time every time. This has NOT been the case with the Ford dealer.

 

Third, he didn't have the TRANNY REBUILT by the Honda dealer because Honda does remove/replace. Also, the transmissions on the 4 cyl models are borderline bulletproof,not having the pesky computer controls of the six cyl models and not having to hold the torque as well. It's the six's that had issues. If he had a rebuild, it was an independent shop and I would be very leary of any shop that does a "rebuild" on a Honda trans since there are no Honda OEM replacement parts made for those transmissions. Most independent shops buy used yet good Honda transmissions or buy Honda OEM rebuilt units.

 

I would bet real money that someone took him for a ride if they said they "rebuilt his transmission." I would be more willing to believe someone change the fluid and took him for a ride.

 

As far as an overall observation, if I had that bad of luck with my Acura, I wouldn't buy another one either.

[marc-o]

Ironically I have a neighbor a few houses down who in casual conversation went on to mention he was going car shopping. I asked what he was shopping for, and he pretty much has his eyes set on the Acura TL. He currently has a 98 CL 2.3. I asked how come...Mentions to me it had already 130K miles, the A/C compressor blew out around 80K (typical for Honda), both power window motors are about to die (going up rather slow), radio has electrical issues, sometimes the power lock works, sometimes doesnt. Had the tranny rebuilt around 95K, and he wants to dump it before the timing belt snaps.

 

So after that extensive list of things gone wrong, I COULD have asked, "WHY go back to the same manufacturer after such a bad experience?". BUT, sometimes it's better to shut up when someones mind is made. Anyhow, a few minutes later he asked about mine and that he heard from antoher neighbor that I'm on my 3rd LS, to which I answered "I just haven't had any issues with them and my previous one had 140K miles when I turned it in, issue-free and spotless maintenence book as well".

 

See it's hard to argue with someone's own experiences, and some people see the past through rose-coloured glasses and others remember only the bad things.

 

So... someone has an 8 year old, 130k car that needed (a) a tranny rebuild, (B) a new a/c compressor and has a few electrical issues with the power windows/locks and may need a new radio unit. If other than regular maintenance that's all that's come up, it doesn't seem to me like a horrendous record. That said, I'm sure some people have had better and others worse. Maybe he had a GM that had twice the number of problems in half the mileage before that - so comparitively speaking, to him, this is not a problem vehicle.

 

Making people happy with regards to cars is hit and miss because everyone's got different expectations... some people whine and b!tch about rattles and squeaks, while others will shrug shoulders about needing a new tranny after 70k (Chryco minivans). Some people don't care if there's a loud knocking noise coming from the back... and drive a vehicle like that for months, even years, and never take it to a shop. Other people will go in for a clicking sound and freak out because an 800$ part is needed for a barely audible sound from a part that probably could have lasted the life of the car if they could tune out that faint noise.

 

I've only ever owned one acura, a 1995 integra that i bought with 220k. i drove it for 40k, during which it needed a rad (190$, common problem on the model) and an upper ball joint (120$). When i sold it 2 years after I got it, i got exactly 500$ less than i bought it for, so in 2 years the car cost me 810$ outside maintenance, gas and insurance. I'm not driving an acura now, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one given my own personal experience.

Edited April 24, 2006 by marc-o

[range]

Ironically I have a neighbor a few houses down who in casual conversation went on to mention he was going car shopping. I asked what he was shopping for, and he pretty much has his eyes set on the Acura TL. He currently has a 98 CL 2.3. I asked how come...Mentions to me it had already 130K miles, the A/C compressor blew out around 80K (typical for Honda), both power window motors are about to die (going up rather slow), radio has electrical issues, sometimes the power lock works, sometimes doesnt. Had the tranny rebuilt around 95K, and he wants to dump it before the timing belt snaps.

 

So after that extensive list of things gone wrong, I COULD have asked, "WHY go back to the same manufacturer after such a bad experience?". BUT, sometimes it's better to shut up when someones mind is made. Anyhow, a few minutes later he asked about mine and that he heard from antoher neighbor that I'm on my 3rd LS, to which I answered "I just haven't had any issues with them and my previous one had 140K miles when I turned it in, issue-free and spotless maintenence book as well".

 

But did I recommend it to him...Hell no... I'll have to hear it for the next few years if something in it DID go wrong. I just stated if the Acura worked for him, and he was happy after his experience, then I don't see why not to stick to them.... Unlike family members, I rather not piss off a neighbor.

 

 

ANT, your observations are backed up by the JDPower reliability survey.

 

Lincoln has a significant advantage in Long Term Durability over Acura

 

 

[marc-o]

ANT, your observations are backed up by the JDPower reliability survey.

 

Lincoln has a significant advantage in Long Term Durability over Acura

 

But his neighbour had a 98, not a 2002. And is ANT's LS a 2002? The study you mention only applies to 2002 MY vehicles. hmmm

[ANTAUS]

I had a 2000, 2003, and now 2005

[bec5150]

Seeing that the vast majority of Lincolns purchased in 2002 are of the bulletproof Panther Town Car variety, this is a pretty easy one to figure out. Remember, the LS didn't sell very well.

 

Second, how is it that sources like JD Power and CU are valid for this deal but anytime they say Honda is good, great, Ford sux, etc, all the sudden they are the anti Christ?

Edited April 24, 2006 by bec5150

[tim kakouris]

i don't trust any of the publications. and, given that they can have conflicting information, who is correct?

[range]

Seeing that the vast majority of Lincolns purchased in 2002 are of the bulletproof Panther Town Car variety, this is a pretty easy one to figure out. Remember, the LS didn't sell very well.

 

Second, how is it that sources like JD Power and CU are valid for this deal but anytime they say Honda is good, great, Ford sux, etc, all the sudden they are the anti Christ?

 

 

There you go again bec letting your bias get in the way.

 

The LS is specifically named by JDPower as second only to the Thunderbird in long term reliability in its segment.

 

The LS is specifically listed as more reliable than any of Japanese products, including Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura.

 

 

I haven't seen anything from JDPower that shows Acura with any stand out performance in any of the categories.

 

Take a look at how Lincoln compares to Acura in the Customer Service survey.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2006 by range

[bec5150]

It's JD Power and everyone knows that they are part of the biased media, right? Oh, that's only when they are positive about the Japanese or negative about Ford, only then are they disregarded.

[Hemiman]

There you go again bec letting your bias get in the way.

 

The LS is specifically named by JDPower as second only to the Thunderbird in long term reliability in its segment.

 

The LS is specifically listed as more reliable than any of Japanese products, including Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura.

I haven't seen anything from JDPower that shows Acura with any stand out performance in any of the categories.

 

Take a look at how Lincoln compares to Acura in the Customer Service survey.

 

 

And what does Ford do with the LS? They cancel it!

[SilverSN95]

Then again Honda makes quality automobiles doesn't it? Just like this transmission issue with these mini-vans. This may be an isolated case but if this same problems turns up time and time again in the months ahead. Honda will once again have egg on their face with these problems.

 

I feel sorry for the people who buy these Honda mini-vans. They must think they are smart don't they? In fact I don't feel sorry for them at all. Anytime I see one that breaks down. I'll just drive by with a smile on my face! :bandance: :bandance:

 

I feel sorry for anyone looking to buy any minivan... they all have problems. Honda is no worse than anyone else in this regard. Probably better than some.

[Extreme4x4]

It's JD Power and everyone knows that they are part of the biased media, right? Oh, that's only when they are positive about the Japanese or negative about Ford, only then are they disregarded.

 

You sound as bad as ANY blindly biased person out there................. and I don't care what manufacturer they are promoting.

 

Bias is bias, be it import or domestic.

 

Now, why don't you look at the articles that will go along with the graphs. This is where the bias will show up. Lincoln will not be mentioned, but you can bet your ass that Lexus will. Or, if they do mention Lincoln, it would be to say that all of their products are old, and not up to standards.

 

I have owned, and worked on, vehicles from many different manufacturers (owned a general auto repair and towing business for 9 years). In that time, a couple of generalizations have proven themselves over and over again. The Honda/Toyota owner will have a major problem, but will brush it off as an anomoly........... as everyone knows that H/T's are indestructible, and never have problems. The Ford/GM owner has a minor problem, and the vehicle is a POS that everyone told him/her they shouldn't buy. This type of thinking does not come out of the blue. It is the slow "brainwashing," if you will, by the mainstream media and publications, that perpetuate this problem.

 

As someone who has owned, and worked, them all................. all I can say is............ cars/trucks, is cars/trucks. They will all need maintenance, and they will all break at some point. Some will last longer than others............. and this applies to all makes (I know just as many people with 200K mile Rangers/Escorts/Taurus's as I do of every other make and model. They just don't go to every website, spouting off on how superior their choice of vehicle is).

[range]

It's JD Power and everyone knows that they are part of the biased media, right? Oh, that's only when they are positive about the Japanese or negative about Ford, only then are they disregarded.

 

 

bec - you yourself said Lincoln was rated high only because of the Town Car. You have been proven wrong, but instead of being a man about it and admitting your mistake, you need to attack the source. Very sad.

[ford-boy]

It is the slow "brainwashing," if you will, by the mainstream media and publications, that perpetuate this problem.

 

 

 

IMHO, you hit the nail right smack dab on the head. Good post.

[bec5150]

bec - you yourself said Lincoln was rated high only because of the Town Car. You have been proven wrong, but instead of being a man about it and admitting your mistake, you need to attack the source. Very sad.

The chart you posted was in regards to all of Lincoln, not just the LS. Second, I never said ANYTHING bad about Lincoln. I freely admit that my CR-V has been more troublesome than my Ford Ranger and the dealer has been the difference.

 

Where in the hell is that biased?

Edited April 25, 2006 by bec5150

[range]

Read the post and the JDPower study. As I said, the top 3 vehicles in long term durability in the entry level segment were:

 

1 - Thunderbird

2 - Lincoln LS

3 - Infinit I35

 

 

What happened to your Special Olympics post?

[bec5150]

Read the post and the JDPower study. As I said, the top 3 vehicles in long term durability in the entry level segment were:

 

1 - Thunderbird

2 - Lincoln LS

3 - Infinit I35

What happened to your Special Olympics post?

I didn't want to put down retarded people by comparing them to you.

 

I feel sorry for anyone looking to buy any minivan... they all have problems. Honda is no worse than anyone else in this regard. Probably better than some.

I agree. Except for the early 4cyl models, it seems that all manufacturers continue to have issues with the automatic transmissions. Toyota had the sludging up of their 3.0 engines, Ford was the whole drivetrain. GM's drivetrains were ok, but their minivans just plain suck.

[Bored of Pisteon]

But then again when you see some yuppie broad eating yogurt in her Honda minivan like I did this morning during rush hour of all times. This pretty much sums up my view on the typical Honda driver... :wacko: :wacko: :boring: NOT VERY BRIGHT.

[bec5150]

But then again when you see some yuppie broad eating yogurt in her Honda minivan like I did this morning during rush hour of all times. This pretty much sums up my view on the typical Honda driver... :wacko: :wacko: :boring: NOT VERY BRIGHT.

Come on now, that's ALL minivan drivers, isn't it?

[SilverSN95]

I agree. Except for the early 4cyl models, it seems that all manufacturers continue to have issues with the automatic transmissions. Toyota had the sludging up of their 3.0 engines, Ford was the whole drivetrain. GM's drivetrains were ok, but their minivans just plain suck.

 

GM vans have powertain issues as well. There wouldn't be websites and petitions against GM if it wasn't true (just search for GM V6 intake issues and you will find it). The experience I have had with GM has solidified by resolve to never buy a GM vehicle again. Not only did they put into production a crappy design, they won't stand behind their product. Yes, I'm bitter towards GM. Guess I can see why people flock to the imports, for the hope of getting something better. At least my other two cars are Fords and never had any real issues with them.

[bec5150]

GM vans have powertain issues as well. There wouldn't be websites and petitions against GM if it wasn't true (just search for GM V6 intake issues and you will find it). The experience I have had with GM has solidified by resolve to never buy a GM vehicle again. Not only did they put into production a crappy design, they won't stand behind their product. Yes, I'm bitter towards GM. Guess I can see why people flock to the imports, for the hope of getting something better. At least my other two cars are Fords and never had any real issues with them.

Yeah, I forgot about the 3.4 intake gasket issues. Their 3.1/3speed auto wasn't as bad as the 3.4, but it was crap nonetheless.

[Hemiman]

GM vans have powertain issues as well. There wouldn't be websites and petitions against GM if it wasn't true (just search for GM V6 intake issues and you will find it). The experience I have had with GM has solidified by resolve to never buy a GM vehicle again. Not only did they put into production a crappy design, they won't stand behind their product. Yes, I'm bitter towards GM. Guess I can see why people flock to the imports, for the hope of getting something better. At least my other two cars are Fords and never had any real issues with them.

 

 

GM 2.8 - 3.4L V-6s do have issues, just ask my two neighbors, (one had a Malibu the other a Minvan). Both had the same problem: Leak, overheat, ruined heads.

 

Now here's the exception to the rule.

 

About a month ago, someone gave me an 86 Fiero GT. It had been sitting for about 3 years, the owner thought the throttle body was shot & was going to have the salvage yard take it. He saw my interest & signed it over to me. I disasembled the TB, cleaned it up & reassembled it. Put in a new battery and it fired right up, offered to give it back, but he said no. So, I aired the tires and drove it home. I filled the tank and put 3 bottles of fuel system cleaner in.

 

I know I should have gone through the belts and hoses but I didn't. On the way home from Church last Sunday, I look in the rearview mirror to see smoke billowing out of the right side grill. Could'nt smell anti-freeze so I thought the thing was on fire, (remember Fiero's had a nasty habit of burning). Pull over, jump out, and get a whif of anti-freeze. Lift the hood and see a heater hose spraying alover the place. Only had 8 miles till home so I got back in and limped it home, steam pouring out of the rear grills, (now I know how P-39 pilots felt limping home during WWII). I had two things going for me here: 1. the engine has 178,000 miles on it, (amazing in itself since these cars rarely last more than 100K) so it's good and loose. 2, the engine is all iron, if it had aluminum heads, I would have killed it.

 

So Maybe Syst Eng has a point in his promotion of iron engines. I know GM would be better off had they stuck with it on thier 60deg V-6s.

[marc-o]

GM 2.8 - 3.4L V-6s do have issues, just ask my two neighbors, (one had a Malibu the other a Minvan). Both had the same problem: Leak, overheat, ruined heads.

 

Now here's the exception to the rule.

 

About a month ago, someone gave me an 86 Fiero GT. It had been sitting for about 3 years, the owner thought the throttle body was shot & was going to have the salvage yard take it. He saw my interest & signed it over to me. I disasembled the TB, cleaned it up & reassembled it. Put in a new battery and it fired right up, offered to give it back, but he said no. So, I aired the tires and drove it home. I filled the tank and put 3 bottles of fuel system cleaner in.

 

I know I should have gone through the belts and hoses but I didn't. On the way home from Church last Sunday, I look in the rearview mirror to see smoke billowing out of the right side grill. Could'nt smell anti-freeze so I thought the thing was on fire, (remember Fiero's had a nasty habit of burning). Pull over, jump out, and get a whif of anti-freeze. Lift the hood and see a heater hose spraying alover the place. Only had 8 miles till home so I got back in and limped it home, steam pouring out of the rear grills, (now I know how P-39 pilots felt limping home during WWII). I had two things going for me here: 1. the engine has 178,000 miles on it, (amazing in itself since these cars rarely last more than 100K) so it's good and loose. 2, the engine is all iron, if it had aluminum heads, I would have killed it.

 

So Maybe Syst Eng has a point in his promotion of iron engines. I know GM would be better off had they stuck with it on thier 60deg V-6s.

 

 

Two words come to mind: ticking timebomb.

 

It's really crazy to say this, but so far it seems like the minivans with the cleanest record in terms of known problems would have to be... the Kia!