Hyundai and Kia. The Little Guys

[156n3rd]

Recently read in USAToday that Hyundai only accounts for 4% of total U.S. automobile sales. I find that so hard to believe because I see so many of them around here. For example: I work in a hospital where we have a huge four level parking deck. There are so many Hyundai and Kia products there that it is looking strange. There always appears to be quite a bit of inventory turning over at the two local stores here (1 for each). The roads are really loaded with them. So if they sell just 4%, how does it appear to be so much more? Year to date sales:236,500

Edited July 29, 2008 by 156n3rd

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Hyundia and Kia are boring they only sell a fraction of that in Europe.

 

If you had something good in the US they would sell fast as a bullet

 

[NickF1011]

Easy answer: The only segments that Hyundai and Kia have a significant presence is compact and midsize cars. Even their share of the SUV/CUV market is pretty miniscule. They don't compete strongly in minivans either. The only ones I really see regularly are Elantras and Sonatas.

[lfeg]

Good try jellymoulds, but I do not think you have a good grasp of the market in the US.

Hyundai and Kia are not just subcompacts. In the segments that they cover their fuel economy is average to a bit better than average, but their price is low. And their warranty coverage is longer than most by a wide margin. This is a a strategy that makes sense here - decent economy, good warranty coverage, and a low price.

 

Now, a small Fiat might sell well as a niche vehicle here, but it will only crack into the mass market if it can come in at a price close to a similar class Hyundai or Kia. Being a Fiat built in Euroland, the chance of that is the same as the Grand Marquis becomming the car of choice for Royal Family over in the Isles.

 

Hyundai and Kia have good market penetration in some areas. This is probably a function of their dealer network. In some areas whrer they have good dealer coverage I see quite a few on the road. I would not doubt that they get up to 10% of the market in some places. In other places (mostly in the mid section of the country or in remote places) I rarely see one.

 

Again, you must look at the market. In large cities and metropolitan areas cars such as the little Fiat will appeal to a segment of the market. In suburban and exurban areas, it may do OK with those looking for the latest fad, but the mass market will still be in cars the size of the Fusion and Focus. Then there are those like me who pile on the miles - When I am going to cover 3000 + miles in a week I want something comfortable for me and those with me, and enough room for what I take with me - a mid size will do, thank you. Not that I do not care for small cars, I do have a Tavria hatchback in the fleet.

Edited July 29, 2008 by lfeg

[NickF1011]

Again, you must look at the market. In large cities and metropolitan areas cars such as the little Fiat will appeal to a segment of the market. In suburban and exurban areas, it may do OK with those looking for the latest fad, but the mass market will still be in cars the size of the Fusion and Focus. Then there are those like me who pile on the miles - When I am going to cover 3000 + miles in a week I want something comfortable for me and those with me, and enough room for what I take with me - a mid size will do, thank you. Not that I do not care for small cars, I do have a Tavria hatchback in the fleet.

 

Brings up something I thought of the other day.

 

Big cities = more import owners than suburbs.

 

Big cities = lower average level of education than suburbs.

 

Therefore...

 

Import owners are dumber than domestic owners?

 

J/K...or not.

Edited July 29, 2008 by NickF1011

[Ford Jellymoulds]

Good try jellymoulds, but I do not think you have a good grasp of the market in the US.

Hyundai and Kia are not just subcompacts. In the segments that they cover their fuel economy is average to a bit better than average, but their price is low. And their warranty coverage is longer than most by a wide margin. This is a a strategy that makes sense here - decent economy, good warranty coverage, and a low price.

 

Now, a small Fiat might sell well as a niche vehicle here, but it will only crack into the mass market if it can come in at a price close to a similar class Hyundai or Kia. Being a Fiat built in Euroland, the chance of that is the same as the Grand Marquis becomming the car of choice for Royal Family over in the Isles.

 

Hyundai and Kia have good market penetration in some areas. This is probably a function of their dealer network. In some areas whrer they have good dealer coverage I see quite a few on the road. I would not doubt that they get up to 10% of the market in some places. In other places (mostly in the mid section of the country or in remote places) I rarely see one.

 

Again, you must look at the market. In large cities and metropolitan areas cars such as the little Fiat will appeal to a segment of the market. In suburban and exurban areas, it may do OK with those looking for the latest fad, but the mass market will still be in cars the size of the Fusion and Focus. Then there are those like me who pile on the miles - When I am going to cover 3000 + miles in a week I want something comfortable for me and those with me, and enough room for what I take with me - a mid size will do, thank you. Not that I do not care for small cars, I do have a Tavria hatchback in the fleet.

 

Most Europeans would not touch Hyundia or Kia junk with a barge pole in whatever market they sell into they are very loooooow rent junk.

 

Your SUV & Pick-up sale are enjoying a sales boom a the moment just wait till you have to pay $10 a gallon like we do which won't be to long down the road for you in the near future, l wonder what average Joe in the US would chose with $10 a gallon l guarantee it won't be a Grand Marquis your still about 10 years behind us on fuel prices & cars that match the fuel price, whats the urgent rush to bring European Fords to US at moment just interested what your take on it is?

[156n3rd]

I have family in the U.K. and they tell me Hyundai and Kia are very much a part of what is driven these days. Your observation about $10.00 a gallon is spot on. That's why the little cars of Hyundai and Kia, as well as many other brands we don't see here are selling so well there. I see so many suv/cuv's whetever they are considered by H and K around here. 4 wheel drive is coveted here because of the winter weather, just you never know what you're gonna get each year. At their prices, people can afford them. As for mini-vans, well, how many of those are being sold now? That market must have shrunk for all makers. GM even ditched the crap they were building. Thier safety raings were the worst, whereas H and K's are the highest. They aren't precision instruments like the Honda, but they are a bit older technology which reduces prices. Cars like the CV are dead. This small car change-over is just beginning here. If domestic brands want to make money, they will have to sell H and K sized cars with equal warranties and better quality.

Edited July 29, 2008 by 156n3rd

[NickF1011]

If domestic brands want to make money, they will have to sell H and K sized cars with equal warranties and better quality.

 

H and K sized cars? Are you saying that Hyundai and Kia are the only ones who sell C- and B-sized cars in the US? GM--and soon Ford-- already offer a counterpart to pretty much anything H-K offer. Most of the domestics are ALREADY well ahead of H-K in quality as well. The warranty is an argument to be made, but hardly necessary. Honda and Toyota offer worse warranties than even the domestics. It hasn't hurt them.

[PolarBear]

Recently read in USAToday that Hyundai only accounts for 4% of total U.S. automobile sales. I find that so hard to believe because I see so many of them around here. For example: I work in a hospital where we have a huge four level parking deck. There are so many Hyundai and Kia products there that it is looking strange. There always appears to be quite a bit of inventory turning over at the two local stores here (1 for each). The roads are really loaded with them. So if they sell just 4%, how does it appear to be so much more? Year to date sales:236,500

 

Think regional here. Their market share on the West Coast is much higher than 4%, ditto the East Coast.

[TStag]

Hyundia and Kia are boring they only sell a fraction of that in Europe.

 

If you had something good in the US they would sell fast as a bullet

 

I thought Hyundai Kia had achieved 4% share of the UK market recently? In part due to the fact that a lot of Rover dealers switched over to Kia.

 

I think the 2010-2020 will be all about the rise of Hyundai-Kia and also the Chinese and Indian car makers. I follow the Chinese automotive scene quite a lot and I know for example that SAIC (China's biggest car maker) has 30 models under development in the UK and USA (note not China). I can't see them failing to make an impact with cars designed in the west. For all we know Ford's Flex designer may get a job with one of them soon.....and whilst that's a bit tongue in cheek Kia are now getting most of their cars styled by Europeans.

[156n3rd]

H and K sized cars? Are you saying that Hyundai and Kia are the only ones who sell C- and B-sized cars in the US? GM--and soon Ford-- already offer a counterpart to pretty much anything H-K offer. Most of the domestics are ALREADY well ahead of H-K in quality as well. The warranty is an argument to be made, but hardly necessary. Honda and Toyota offer worse warranties than even the domestics. It hasn't hurt them.

Toyota is steadily losing sales, and Honda's gains are almost flat. Ford has the Focus. GM has Aveo (yeah, that's better than any Hyndai/Kia), Cobalt and it's Pontiac clone and thata's it. MoPar has what? Are you bsaing your low opinon without having owned a Hyundai/Kia? Because if you are, that's bs. You can't judge something you haven't spend time with and money on. I am not saying they are better than American, Japanese or European cars. I'm saying that I own one at it meets/exceeds my expectations and I can live with the limitations of the product. I don't over drive it to make it a failure because it's not a popular brand. In Europe and the UK they have so many more B and C types to choose from. here there is so little. Google What Car? magazine and take a look.

Edited July 30, 2008 by 156n3rd

[156n3rd]

Think regional here. Their market share on the West Coast is much higher than 4%, ditto the East Coast.

I live in eastern Pennsylvania, 70 north of Philly, 100 miles east of NYC. There are these cars everywhere I go.

 

P.S. Number one selling car in Puerto Rico? Kia Some of my freinds from the island love to tell me that.

Edited July 30, 2008 by 156n3rd

[Ovaltine]

I thought Hyundai Kia had achieved 4% share of the UK market recently? In part due to the fact that a lot of Rover dealers switched over to Kia.

 

I think the 2010-2020 will be all about the rise of Hyundai-Kia and also the Chinese and Indian car makers. I follow the Chinese automotive scene quite a lot and I know for example that SAIC (China's biggest car maker) has 30 models under development in the UK and USA (note not China). I can't see them failing to make an impact with cars designed in the west. For all we know Ford's Flex designer may get a job with one of them soon.....and whilst that's a bit tongue in cheek Kia are now getting most of their cars styled by Europeans.

 

 

To the above, I have to reply with a paraphrase of Mr. Bob Seger's famed exclamation:

 

"Sh-t.... I knew that 4 years ago!"

 

Seriously though, I do like what I'm hearing about Ford's revamp efforts. I think bringing their European expertise over here to N.A. can't happen soon enough!

 

Also.... big announcement here. The Ovaltine family purchased (not leased) a brand new DOMESTIC vehicle when the lease on the Chrysler minivan came up. The wife and I picked up a decently appointed new Jeep Compass about 2 months ago for a REALLY good price. We're at 2400 trouble-free miles already, and are getting about 22 mpg around town, and 25-26 on the highway with the 2.4L I4 and CVT.

 

I'm aware of all of the supposed controversy with the Compass' styling and drivetrain, but so far we're really liking it.... especially when you factor in what we paid for it OTD: $16,400. I won't bore you with the options, but it has all the essential bells, whistles, and safety devices on it the wife and I need. This is her daily driver, so she's definitely enjoying the handling and sportiness over the old "school bus".

 

Just wanted you all to know that I'm just not a brainwashed H/K owner or employee.

 

By the time the Spectra's ready to hand down to one of the upcoming teenagers, perhaps the Fusion will have gotten the I4 powertrain and cosmetic upgrades so I can scope one out for me. :shades:

 

-Ovaltine

Edited July 30, 2008 by Ovaltine

[Anthony]

Think regional here. Their market share on the West Coast is much higher than 4%, ditto the East Coast.

 

Bingo. ...and if you really think on it. 4% ain't too shabby.

[156n3rd]

I thought Hyundai Kia had achieved 4% share of the UK market recently? In part due to the fact that a lot of Rover dealers switched over to Kia.

 

I think the 2010-2020 will be all about the rise of Hyundai-Kia and also the Chinese and Indian car makers. I follow the Chinese automotive scene quite a lot and I know for example that SAIC (China's biggest car maker) has 30 models under development in the UK and USA (note not China). I can't see them failing to make an impact with cars designed in the west. For all we know Ford's Flex designer may get a job with one of them soon.....and whilst that's a bit tongue in cheek Kia are now getting most of their cars styled by Europeans.

You are correct! Europeans buy these cars because they get models that we don't and they are highly rated. In just a few short years, I hope U.S. companies have more product, because if they don't, it'll be the 1970's all over again, just with different names. :titanic: :fan: :gang: :bowdown: :devil2:

 

yes, the child in me couldn't RESIST!

[Pioneer]

I'm aware of all of the supposed controversy with the Compass' styling and drivetrain, but so far we're really liking it....

 

The only thing that bothers me about the Compass is the rear of the vehicle. In my opinion, they didn't let the rear bumper hang down low enough, just like the Sebring, and the muffler sticks out like a sore thumb. If it were my vehicle, I would get some of that flat black heat resistant paint that you can use on a grille, and black it out.

 

Other than that, it seems to be a nice vehicle. Good luck with it.

[NickF1011]

Toyota is steadily losing sales, and Honda's gains are almost flat. Ford has the Focus. GM has Aveo (yeah, that's better than any Hyndai/Kia), Cobalt and it's Pontiac clone and thata's it. MoPar has what? Are you bsaing your low opinon without having owned a Hyundai/Kia? Because if you are, that's bs. You can't judge something you haven't spend time with and money on. I am not saying they are better than American, Japanese or European cars. I'm saying that I own one at it meets/exceeds my expectations and I can live with the limitations of the product. I don't over drive it to make it a failure because it's not a popular brand. In Europe and the UK they have so many more B and C types to choose from. here there is so little. Google What Car? magazine and take a look.

 

My girlfriend has an '07 Elantra. I've spent plenty of time in it. It's a nice enough car, but it's certainly not a game-changer on any level. It had a fuel pump just die on it with only 20,000 miles on the odometer. Yes, that 100,000 mile warranty is going to be useful I think.

 

So little B and C cars to choose from here? :blink: EVERY full line automaker in the US offers at least one C car....and there are a crapload of B cars on the market now or hitting soon.

 

B Cars available NOW:

 

Fit

Yaris

Versa

Aveo

xB

xD

Mini Cooper

Rio

Accent

Aerio

 

and I'm probably forgetting one or two.

[rmc523]

Recently read in USAToday that Hyundai only accounts for 4% of total U.S. automobile sales. I find that so hard to believe because I see so many of them around here. For example: I work in a hospital where we have a huge four level parking deck. There are so many Hyundai and Kia products there that it is looking strange. There always appears to be quite a bit of inventory turning over at the two local stores here (1 for each). The roads are really loaded with them. So if they sell just 4%, how does it appear to be so much more? Year to date sales:236,500

 

I too see quite a bit of Hyundai's and Kia's, although, as others have mentioned, market percentages vary per region/area.

[Arniect]

Have to Make one comment about the Korean cars:

 

These cars are the king of the "NO CREDIT" market.

 

The dealers move the iron to buyers that can not qualify at Main Stream Dealers. Same is true of Suzuki dealers.

[NickF1011]

Have to Make one comment about the Korean cars:

 

These cars are the king of the "NO CREDIT" market.

 

The dealers move the iron to buyers that can not qualify at Main Stream Dealers. Same is true of Suzuki dealers.

 

Ain't that the truth. My girlfriend's credit is horrible.

[156n3rd]

For many in today's ecocnomy, that's all some can afford. We bought a 4 year old Accent because my wife wanted a 2-door, little car. It's a nimble little thing and we don't expect it to be the quality of better brands. It will serve it's purpose, and that'll be that. I can't wait for the more modern, better ergonomically designed cars to get here. Ford is smart not to wait. GM will surely suffer.

[Anthony]

Every Hyundai owner I know of (five, four of which are immediate family) have excellent credit. For some its just spending less for a car. Pretty simple really.

[lfeg]

Most Europeans would not touch Hyundia or Kia junk with a barge pole in whatever market they sell into they are very loooooow rent junk.

 

Your SUV & Pick-up sale are enjoying a sales boom a the moment just wait till you have to pay $10 a gallon like we do which won't be to long down the road for you in the near future, l wonder what average Joe in the US would chose with $10 a gallon l guarantee it won't be a Grand Marquis your still about 10 years behind us on fuel prices & cars that match the fuel price, whats the urgent rush to bring European Fords to US at moment just interested what your take on it is?

 

 

Huh? Read what I wrote. Small car sales will increase in the US, but the big growth will be range the size of the Focus and Fusion. There is also no doubt that there will be growth in the smaller segments. I have also written before that the drop in pickup and suv sales does not surprise me, and that those segments will (in my opinion) drop to the levels they had in the 60's.

 

And YOU must remember that there are some fundamental differences between the UK and the US. For one, the total tax rate on fuels here is in the 12% to 18% range compared to the 100% or higher range in the UK. Due to this one thing the cost per gallon will always be higher in the UK, so if we get to $10 per gallon, you would probably be paying closer to $20.

 

Now all of this has little to do with sales of Hyundai and Kia in the US (about as much as the price of furfurol has to do with the amount of rainfall in Finland). I do see a good number of them on the road where I live, and they do have some good dealers around here. I see two main groups of people buying them - those with low budgets who must have something cheap (the alternative is usually a used car) and those looking for value that can afford other cars, but like what they get from Hyundai and Kia. And the latter group is larger and growing faster around here. I know nothing about the models that they sell in the UK, but the ones here are pretty good in comparison of value.

[NickF1011]

As soon as someone finds a way to make a fuel-efficient fullsize truck, whether it is hybrid, diesel, electric, fuel cell...whatever. Americans will flock right back to them. Americans like things big. The only reason we'll buy a small car is out of necessity.

[Ford Jellymoulds]

As soon as someone finds a way to make a fuel-efficient fullsize truck, whether it is hybrid, diesel, electric, fuel cell...whatever. Americans will flock right back to them. Americans like things big. The only reason we'll buy a small car is out of necessity.

 

Why is Ford bring small fuel effient cars & small connects vans to the States, why did Apple make the i-pod shuffle if Americans like things big Nick who makes the Airbus A380?