Ford Thanks its salaried retirees

[theoldwizard]

Actually, it is the salaried people who make all the decisions within the company. Yes, there are non-decision making salaried people, I will give you that, but most salaried workers are in the decision making process. Engineers are not necessarily managers, but I have seen loads of dumb ass decisions made by them.

Yep, but I seen bigger ones made by management.

 

Remember the TFI fiasco during the 1980s (something like 150-200 repairs/100 cars built; yes most cars had it fail more than once). Yes, that was design flaw. But management helped by waiving the thermal stress life cycle testing that would have uncovered the flaw because they did not want to buy the equipment to do it. No, I can't prove it and Ford dis-proved it in court, so this is just hear say.

 

Yes, that manager is now a director and he still works for Ford.

[ktpworker69]

You obviously have no idea how Ford Motor Company was run, at least for the 30+ years that I was a salaried employee.

 

Decision were made by the top 5% of the salaried work force. There rest of the people, including most of middle and lower level management (LL6-LL3) were just giving marching order and told to "make it happen". These managers got paid $100-300K/year (plus bonus during years when it was paid) but had no input into decisions that would have major impact on the company. The middle/upper level management has been spinning so fast that no one ever is in one specific job to truly understand it. Nassar started it by saying quite publicly that anyone in a job more than 2 years was stagnant and should think about leaving the company.

 

Case in point. When the current Explorer was released a few years back the single biggest "thing gone wrong" was the interior door releases and handles. Customers hated them with a passion. Yet, 6-9 month earlier Jays Mays claimed that these same releases and handles were the most innovative design in interiors for years. And Jay Mays still works for the company.

 

Second case in point. Ford actually does survey their salaried employees to obtain their opinion about the company and their local management as well as senior management. Powertrain Controls had some of the worst survey results for the entire company and year after year they keep getting worse. Believe it or not, it was so bad that it actually showed up as a "black mark" on the director annual performance review. So he asked HR to conduct some group interviews to find the "root problem", which was no input from subordinates. When the director got the results he exploded shouting, "Those people just don't understand !" and threw the report in the trash. Yes, this same LL2 still works for Ford and just got a nice cushy job, in an area where he will be shielded from any negative results for the die that he cast.

 

Third case. 2 months before I retired I was part of a group of LL6s who were allowed to have a "skip level" meeting (i.e. bypass the department manager) with the Chief Engineer. Knowing I was a "short timer" I took the soap box for 20 minutes and reamed him out about a series of strategic decision that were done that would create significant new work for engineering. When he finally replied he said, "We didn't know !" and "Well, we asked the department managers", who had been on the job for less than 1 year and did not understand the technical issues at hand. My counter was, "Did you ask your Technical Experts for input. You know the people who have years of experience and that you have promoted the same questions ?" Dead silence.

 

Yes, there are (or were) a lot of "worrier, trackers and reporters" who were good at making PowerPoint presentations that made their director/VP look good. Hopefully there are a lot less of them now.

 

Before you lump all salaried employees into that top 5 or 10%, you had better walk a few miles in their shoes.

 

thats an incredible post. i knew that fords management was controlled by a select few at the top. KTP is in shambles, you would not believe the way that place is run. todd bryant is a freaking idiot, as are most of the superintendents. lower level supervision are like "drones" for the head "drone". i have personally witnessed some of the most ignorant decisions you can imagine. i dont know who all reads these posts, but i wish someone would read this that can do something about the way this company is run, or its gonna be run into the ground. i have worked for ford for 15 yrs and have witnessed this change. in 1996 when ford started hiring these new supervisors fresh out of college, whom none of which had any idea how to run an assembly line, was the begining of the end. i hope someone can change things or no of us will be retiring from this once great company

[RockofCashel]

Yep, but I seen bigger ones made by management.

 

Remember the TFI fiasco during the 1980s (something like 150-200 repairs/100 cars built; yes most cars had it fail more than once). Yes, that was design flaw. But management helped by waiving the thermal stress life cycle testing that would have uncovered the flaw because they did not want to buy the equipment to do it. No, I can't prove it and Ford dis-proved it in court, so this is just hear say.

 

Yes, that manager is now a director and he still works for Ford.

 

Take it from the bottom, the line worker. Engineers don't listen to us and it just keeps going up the chain. You guys don't know what we do, yet you make decisions without any of our input. So yeah, decisions are made by the non-managerial salaried workforce. You decide what to tell your manager. We hourly folk don't make any decisions and are ignored until the last possible minute.

 

Granted, not all salaried people make decisions, but all decisions are made by salaried people.

[RockofCashel]

thats an incredible post. i knew that fords management was controlled by a select few at the top. KTP is in shambles, you would not believe the way that place is run. todd bryant is a freaking idiot, as are most of the superintendents. lower level supervision are like "drones" for the head "drone". i have personally witnessed some of the most ignorant decisions you can imagine. i dont know who all reads these posts, but i wish someone would read this that can do something about the way this company is run, or its gonna be run into the ground. i have worked for ford for 15 yrs and have witnessed this change. in 1996 when ford started hiring these new supervisors fresh out of college, whom none of which had any idea how to run an assembly line, was the begining of the end. i hope someone can change things or no of us will be retiring from this once great company

 

Amen brother.

[Len_A]

You obviously have no idea how Ford Motor Company was run, at least for the 30+ years that I was a salaried employee.

 

Decision were made by the top 5% of the salaried work force. There rest of the people, including most of middle and lower level management (LL6-LL3) were just giving marching order and told to "make it happen". These managers got paid $100-300K/year (plus bonus during years when it was paid) but had no input into decisions that would have major impact on the company. The middle/upper level management has been spinning so fast that no one ever is in one specific job to truly understand it. Nassar started it by saying quite publicly that anyone in a job more than 2 years was stagnant and should think about leaving the company.

 

Case in point. When the current Explorer was released a few years back the single biggest "thing gone wrong" was the interior door releases and handles. Customers hated them with a passion. Yet, 6-9 month earlier Jays Mays claimed that these same releases and handles were the most innovative design in interiors for years. And Jay Mays still works for the company.

 

Second case in point. Ford actually does survey their salaried employees to obtain their opinion about the company and their local management as well as senior management. Powertrain Controls had some of the worst survey results for the entire company and year after year they keep getting worse. Believe it or not, it was so bad that it actually showed up as a "black mark" on the director annual performance review. So he asked HR to conduct some group interviews to find the "root problem", which was no input from subordinates. When the director got the results he exploded shouting, "Those people just don't understand !" and threw the report in the trash. Yes, this same LL2 still works for Ford and just got a nice cushy job, in an area where he will be shielded from any negative results for the die that he cast.

 

Third case. 2 months before I retired I was part of a group of LL6s who were allowed to have a "skip level" meeting (i.e. bypass the department manager) with the Chief Engineer. Knowing I was a "short timer" I took the soap box for 20 minutes and reamed him out about a series of strategic decision that were done that would create significant new work for engineering. When he finally replied he said, "We didn't know !" and "Well, we asked the department managers", who had been on the job for less than 1 year and did not understand the technical issues at hand. My counter was, "Did you ask your Technical Experts for input. You know the people who have years of experience and that you have promoted the same questions ?" Dead silence.

 

Yes, there are (or were) a lot of "worrier, trackers and reporters" who were good at making PowerPoint presentations that made their director/VP look good. Hopefully there are a lot less of them now.

 

Before you lump all salaried employees into that top 5 or 10%, you had better walk a few miles in their shoes.

Excellent post. As an ex-hourly employee, and an ex-vendor sales rep, I'll tell you that you're deadnuts-right-on-point across the board.

 

The top 5% have always f***ed up the decision making process, the atmosphere their politics fosters is so damn destructive, we're now seeing the company reap what the upper management has sown. Good point on Jac Nasser and his bullshit decisions, too. The thing with Nasser is that he didn't make those decisions in a vacuum. He had either the explicit or tacit approval, or both, of the board and the Ford family. The Ford family - a group of spoiled rotten trust fund bastards that haven't worked an honest day in their lives, and the majority of aren't the least bit interested in the company, save for making certain that they get their dividend checks. All of them a real group of winners. Not. Now that the dividend has sank to the point of gone, the stock prices getting to historic lows, the company issued debt well into junk bond status, and most of the decent managers being groomed to take the top spots instead leaving to work for Tier One suppliers, it's no wonder they became so desperate as to engage in a bidding war (unfortunately with no one other than their own imaginations) finally put the twenty million dollar man in charge of the company, in the hopes that an outsider might just change the corporate culture that the previous generation destroyed.

[ktpworker69]

Excellent post. As an ex-hourly employee, and an ex-vendor sales rep, I'll tell you that you're deadnuts-right-on-point across the board.

 

The top 5% have always f***ed up the decision making process, the atmosphere their politics fosters is so damn destructive, we're now seeing the company reap what the upper management has sown. Good point on Jac Nasser and his bullshit decisions, too. The thing with Nasser is that he didn't make those decisions in a vacuum. He had either the explicit or tacit approval, or both, of the board and the Ford family. The Ford family - a group of spoiled rotten trust fund bastards that haven't worked an honest day in their lives, and the majority of aren't the least bit interested in the company, save for making certain that they get their dividend checks. All of them a real group of winners. Not. Now that the dividend has sank to the point of gone, the stock prices getting to historic lows, the company issued debt well into junk bond status, and most of the decent managers being groomed to take the top spots instead leaving to work for Tier One suppliers, it's no wonder they became so desperate as to engage in a bidding war (unfortunately with no one other than their own imaginations) finally put the twenty million dollar man in charge of the company, in the hopes that an outsider might just change the corporate culture that the previous generation destroyed.

another great post.

[Len_A]

another great post.

Thanks. Eleven months of unemployment, in the shadow of Ford World Headquarters, in great way paying a price for these jackoffs mistakes, sharpens the pen and the wit. I'd love to bail on the Detroit area, but my ten year old house won't sell today for what we paid for it in July, 1998, let alone getting the money we put into it after we moved in, and will take a minimum of eighteen months to sell. In great part because these upper management idiots, and their Ford family sponsors screwed us all over. It doesn't surprise me to see them screwing salaried workers over. I've been seeing it happen for the last twenty years.

[theoldwizard]

Thanks. Eleven months of unemployment, in the shadow of Ford World Headquarters, in great way paying a price for these jackoffs mistakes, sharpens the pen and the wit. I'd love to bail on the Detroit area, but my ten year old house won't sell today for what we paid for it in July, 1998, let alone getting the money we put into it after we moved in, and will take a minimum of eighteen months to sell. In great part because these upper management idiots, and their Ford family sponsors screwed us all over. It doesn't surprise me to see them screwing salaried workers over. I've been seeing it happen for the last twenty years.

One of my best friends and a I guy who I have known for more than 20 years and worked next to for about 10 years was let go about 3 years ago (after he left, I was told to do his job in addition to my own). His friends and co-workers were asked to leave the area while he was given 5 minutes to clean out his desk. In order to collect his severance pay he had to waive all rights to ever suing Ford and agree that even if he was someday was re-hired he would never regain his seniority.

 

Another friend, who was LL6, wound up at Visteon during the Ford 2000 shuffle. After a couple of years his whole department was laid off, top to bottom. Again, in order to collect his severance pay he had to waive rights to legal recourse and seniority. Within less than 1 year he was back at Ford as a contractor. Within another year, he was hired back and within another couple years he is promoted to LL6 again. So here is a guy in his mid/late forties with about 5 years of seniority, even though he has actually worked for the company for over 20 years. Of yeah, when he was rehired it was after they changed the new hire salaried employee retirement plan from "defined benefit" to "define contribution". You UAW boys will never know anything about this because your negotiation teams would never let it happen to you !

 

Oh yeah, friend #1 has been unemployed since he was released almost 3 years ago, due to medical issues.

[lquidspine]

I wish the best for almost anyone that is losing there jobs right now.

 

We however should not lie to ourselves the top 5% of management may make the majority of decisions, but that 5% does not make the day to day decisions that effect the final product on a daily basis in plants. That blame falls directly on the shoulders of the line supervisors on up to the plant managers. I can not even begin to think how many times I have seen data manipulated just to save face for some of management to show their boss. I have also seen plenty of quality related data completely disregarded simply because it would mean the shift super would not get his numbers for the day. I have also seen quality heads make huge deals out of nothing while at the same time completely disregarding something that I as a former repair man would see as a big issue.

 

I am not saying that All salaried people do some of the things i have said, but we would simply be just turning a blind eye to things that happen on the floor on a daily basis if we did not admit they happen.

 

Are some good people being let go from Ford ? I am sure there are and I wish them the best, all I can say as someone that would like to see this company continue to be around long after I am gone is I hope Most of the people they let go are the bad ones and hope that enough of the good salaried people stay and get this company back on track so we can all be well.

 

Good Luck to all !!!

[RockofCashel]

I wish the best for almost anyone that is losing there jobs right now.

 

We however should not lie to ourselves the top 5% of management may make the majority of decisions, but that 5% does not make the day to day decisions that effect the final product on a daily basis in plants. That blame falls directly on the shoulders of the line supervisors on up to the plant managers. I can not even begin to think how many times I have seen data manipulated just to save face for some of management to show their boss. I have also seen plenty of quality related data completely disregarded simply because it would mean the shift super would not get his numbers for the day. I have also seen quality heads make huge deals out of nothing while at the same time completely disregarding something that I as a former repair man would see as a big issue.

 

I am not saying that All salaried people do some of the things i have said, but we would simply be just turning a blind eye to things that happen on the floor on a daily basis if we did not admit they happen.

 

Are some good people being let go from Ford ? I am sure there are and I wish them the best, all I can say as someone that would like to see this company continue to be around long after I am gone is I hope Most of the people they let go are the bad ones and hope that enough of the good salaried people stay and get this company back on track so we can all be well.

 

Good Luck to all !!!

 

And that's the point I was trying to make, just without all the words. We hourly workers build what is put in front of us. We are not involved in the minute to minute decision making process. That falls on the shoulders of engineers and line supervisors. Blame the execs all you want, but the entire salaried component has had a hand in the downfall of this company.

[jerzey]

And that's the point I was trying to make, just without all the words. We hourly workers build what is put in front of us. We are not involved in the minute to minute decision making process. That falls on the shoulders of engineers and line supervisors. Blame the execs all you want, but the entire salaried component has had a hand in the downfall of this company.

[1993Stang]

And that's the point I was trying to make, just without all the words. We hourly workers build what is put in front of us. We are not involved in the minute to minute decision making process. That falls on the shoulders of engineers and line supervisors. Blame the execs all you want, but the entire salaried component has had a hand in the downfall of this company.

I haven't seen any sign of the salary folks losing up to 15% of their people??? Has Ford changed their decision on this??

[GreggM]

I haven't seen any sign of the salary folks losing up to 15% of their people??? Has Ford changed their decision on this??

 

No. They finished the purge yesterday. They sure kept it quiet though.

[ktpworker69]

I haven't seen any sign of the salary folks losing up to 15% of their people??? Has Ford changed their decision on this??

they have been leaving left and right at KTP. even a couple labor reps got the ax. now thats good shit.

[1993Stang]

they have been leaving left and right at KTP. even a couple labor reps got the ax. now thats good shit.

I'll kiss ya for that comment!!!