Georgia State Patrol Chargers

[Mach150]

On my way to work this am, listening to radio..."State Patrol to purchase new high tech muscle cars..." My first thought was "hmmm..a new Copstang???". Commercial finished and they played the news item. GSP spokesman claims lower purchase cost (??) and more power in new Chargers. These guys have run only CV's FOREVER, and the Intrepids they tested were kaka--brake fires, etc. So, this is interesting. Seems wierd as hell for Ford to get beat on price--maybe the GSP bases it on a $/horsepower ratio :P . Where's the friggin' Hurricane??

[taxman100]

My understanding is they are buying a few to test, much like many law enforcement agencies are doing.

 

Based upon Ford's response so far, it appears no one at Ford has yet to realize Chrysler has this car out they call the Charger, is RWD, and has a V-8 available.

 

Apparently Chrysler has been able to keep the 300 and Charger a secret to Ford.

[RangeRover]

My understanding is they are buying a few to test, much like many law enforcement agencies are doing.

 

Based upon Ford's response so far, it appears no one at Ford has yet to realize Chrysler has this car out they call the Charger, is RWD, and has a V-8 available.

 

Apparently Chrysler has been able to keep the 300 and Charger a secret to Ford.

 

Everybody likes things that are shiny and new. Right now, the Charger is new. I am a firm believer that people hate change. Especially when there is no good reason to change from Ford to Chrysler. I hope Chrysler knows what they are getting into.

 

Hopefully they have done rear crash tests at 70MPH and have a car that can take all kinds of beatings. I think Ford holding firm at their price and not entering into a bidding war with Chrysler is good. Afterall, the Charger could turn out to be a POS. Why should Ford compete on price when they have reputation and proven success on their side.

[DRODMOTORS]

Wow, I haven't seen any Charger cop cars. I know a department on Michigan passed on them when the braking system failed at the Lansing test track and sent an officer to the hospital.

 

In Atlanta, I've seen nothing but Intrepids and Mustangs driven by the highway troopers...

[Paul Selby]

On my way to work this am, listening to radio..."State Patrol to purchase new high tech muscle cars..." My first thought was "hmmm..a new Copstang???". Commercial finished and they played the news item. GSP spokesman claims lower purchase cost (??) and more power in new Chargers. These guys have run only CV's FOREVER, and the Intrepids they tested were kaka--brake fires, etc. So, this is interesting. Seems wierd as hell for Ford to get beat on price--maybe the GSP bases it on a $/horsepower ratio :P . Where's the friggin' Hurricane??

 

 

On the lower purchase cost, guessing they are talking about the V-6 model. SC State Patrol is looking into the V-6 model for MPG reasons and it's not much slower than the CV.

[156n3rd]

Wow, I haven't seen any Charger cop cars. I know a department on Michigan passed on them when the braking system failed at the Lansing test track and sent an officer to the hospital.

 

In Atlanta, I've seen nothing but Intrepids and Mustangs driven by the highway troopers...

 

Here in Pennsyltucky, CV's rule the State Police. They do have various SUV's in the form of Jeeps and Rangers. Locals use Impalas when they are too poor to buy a real car. Intrepid squad cars? Mind boggling.

[Mach150]

Here in Pennsyltucky, CV's rule the State Police. They do have various SUV's in the form of Jeeps and Rangers. Locals use Impalas when they are too poor to buy a real car. Intrepid squad cars? Mind boggling.

 

The Georgia State Patrol got rid of their last Mustang LX's in about 1994. They got rid of their last Caprices in about 1999. To the best of my knowledge, they now run only CV's for patrol, with a smattering of F150's and Expeditions for accident inv, etc. Local agencies with Mustangs include City of Doraville (S197's) and Rockdale Co. Sheriff (SN95's). Wealthy Gwinnett County runs Wimpala's and Intrepids, but then again they "don't chase". They send out front end parts by the pallet load, I'm told.

I doubt GSP is interested in fuel economy--not sure that should be their main concern. They used to order in higher octane gasoline for the tanks at the posts--it is all about shortening pursuits and getting to accident scenes, not saving pennies on fuel!

[Anthony]

Hopefully they have done rear crash tests at 70MPH and have a car that can take all kinds of beatings. I think Ford holding firm at their price and not entering into a bidding war with Chrysler is good. Afterall, the Charger could turn out to be a POS. Why should Ford compete on price when they have reputation and proven success on their side.

 

Here's the Magnum (same platform as the Charger) after a 50mph rear end crash....the glass didn't even break:

 

 

2005 Dodge Magnum Rear Impact Test - Auburn Hills, February 6 - Mark Chernoby, Vice President, Advanced Engineering Technology, shows journalists how the Chrysler Group's 2005 Dodge Magnum withstood a 50 mph rear impact test - -a test that is two years ahead of a federal government requirement, during a safety briefing at Chrysler Group headquarters.

 

Safety engineers evaluated the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum with tests beyond current government requirements such as 40-mph front offset and 50-mph rear impact-tests. The 40-mph front impact simulates a high speed vehicle-to-vehicle crash while the 50-mph offset rear-impact test measures fuel system integrity when the vehicle is hit at high speeds on the side nearest the fuel filler tube. To reduce intrusion to the fuel system during a rear impact event, Chrysler Group actually designed the tire well on an incline so the spare tire rotates away from the tank in a rear impact. In addition, Chrysler Group engineers also used the "pole test," which mimics accidents such as hitting a telephone pole or tree, to evaluate the side air bag sensing system. These types of accidents may be severe because the crash forces are concentrated in a relatively small area of the vehicle.

[92merc]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (back it up with a link), but I thought the CV was rated to 50 MPH in a rear end collision already? And that's with 10 year old technology. Who cares if a window breaks after a collision like that.

 

Besides, all the fires on the CVPI have been at over 50mph. And none have occurred since the shields have been added. So the way I see it, the Magnum is equal to the CV in rear end collisions. Not better.

[blackhawk_88]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (back it up with a link), but I thought the CV was rated to 50 MPH in a rear end collision already? And that's with 10 year old technology. Who cares if a window breaks after a collision like that.

 

Besides, all the fires on the CVPI have been at over 50mph. And none have occurred since the shields have been added. So the way I see it, the Magnum is equal to the CV in rear end collisions. Not better.

 

I don't think anyone is saying the Magnum is better than the CV in rear end collisions. But it'll be interesting to see how the Charger performs when compared to the CV. I agree with Mach150 though, it's surprising that GSP is buying Chargers when they've recently used nothing but Fords.

Edited April 6, 2006 by blackhawk_88

[Anthony]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (back it up with a link), but I thought the CV was rated to 50 MPH in a rear end collision already? And that's with 10 year old technology. Who cares if a window breaks after a collision like that.

 

Besides, all the fires on the CVPI have been at over 50mph. And none have occurred since the shields have been added. So the way I see it, the Magnum is equal to the CV in rear end collisions. Not better.

 

Yup, it is rated by Ford to 50mph (and meets gov's 30 mph standard)

 

CBSnews

 

Ford further claims the Crown Victoria passes federal 30-mph speed tests and Ford's more stringent 50-mph tests, but refuses to substantiate the latter claim with documents or video.

 

After initially resisting, Ford did hand over one tape - a re-enactment of a 1998 crash. In a 71-mph re-enactment, there was no fire, yet in the actual 66-mph accident Tucson officer Juan Cruz burned to death as his partner watched.

[range]

Yup, it is rated by Ford to 50mph (and meets gov's 30 mph standard)

 

CBSnews

 

 

Actually the CVPI was tested (and passed) at 75 mph. 75MPH

Edited April 7, 2006 by range

[Mach150]

UPDATE--This item has made all the papers and TV news shows her in Georgia. The GSP is currently testing a handful of Chargers. These cars are defintely Hemi powered, and the Patrol maintains that they ARE cheaper to purchase. It sounds like they are going to buy, and what is really funny is part of the rationale is that the Charger will help to shorten high speed pursuits. Sounds just like the selling point of the Special Service Mustangs of the 1980's. I am a Ford guy, but I do find myself rooting for Dodge on this, if only because it may (hopefully) cause Ford to wake up and smell the coffee (or, the tire smoke and exhaust). 100 more horsies apparently means something to someone!

[kevinb120]

Well once production and upfitters get up to speed with the charger, say goodbye to CV police interceptors and even taxis. Its just a matter of time.

[156n3rd]

I don't agree because of financial reasons. Will the DCX cars be priced under Ford's? You know municipalities have strict procurement guidelines and they will not spend more money than they have to. They already have their equipment set up for Fords. I see a slow change and if it takes off the way you think it will, Ford will hopefully have addressed the CV/GM by then.

Edited April 11, 2006 by Frank J. Raniere

[Traveler]

The Crown Vic still has a lot going for it.

 

1. Track record and high-mileage reliability

2. Body on frame design

3. Better fuel economy

4. Abundance of mechanical and body parts

5. Familiarity with chassis dynamics

 

 

1. The Crown Vic has been around for many years. They are known for reliability and durability in severe service. The Charger Hemi is unknown for police work in the long-term. It may turn out just as durable, but that is the unknown factor right now.

 

2. Body on frame adds rigidity and strength. Also the long overhangs of the CV can in likelihood be a benefit. to protecting the front suspension and rear axle. The Charger's wheels are pushed to the corners which could render a police car undrivable in some situations.

 

3. The Hemi will not get as good of gas mileage as the Ford. There's no replacement for displacement, but the penalty will be decreased mileage and likely significantly. The MDS on the Charger will only help in cruise mode. Lots of starting and stopping deactivates the MDS. My Crown Vic can cruise at 65 and get 28 mpg on 87 octane. The Charger Hemi will run on 87, but 89 is preferred choice as stated by Chrysler. Fuel cost will be higher in Charger than Ford and if the Georgia Patrol (and others) choose to use 89, they will incur a larger fuel expense. For this reason, I suspect Hemi Chargers will be used primarily on major routes in smaller quantities, taking the place of aging Camaro pursuit cars with the added benefit of being able to transport easier.

 

4. The Crown Vic can roll into the state's repair shop and be out probably much quicker than a Charger will. There is an advantage for Ford using the same car all these years in that many parts are interchangable. When a part does break, the CV is probably in and out and with expected body damage, the CV most likely quicker to repair.

 

5. LEOs are well-trained in how the CV handles, brakes and accelerates in given situations. The Charger will no doubt be better in the performance category, but will react differently in real-world situations.

 

Law enforcement in general love the Vic because they are built to take a lot of abuse that most cars simply can not take. I've seen a few accidents involving Vics where I wondered if it would have been survivable in other comparable sedans. One lawman recently described the Vic's best attribute as being "built like a tank" and they are comfortable. Fleet buyers in the state may rather go with the Chargers in limited numbers, but I will be willing to bet that a vast majority of LEOs would still prefer the comfort and security that goes along with the Vic.

[kevinb120]

It still dumbfounds me that while they add options like fire suppresion systems, balistic door panels and upfit packages, why don't they offer a Mustang sourced 3V/5 speed auto and a lower rear axle ratio?

[StevenJ]

It still dumbfounds me that while they add options like fire suppresion systems, balistic door panels and upfit packages, why don't they offer a Mustang sourced 3V/5 speed auto and a lower rear axle ratio?

 

I have a feeling that they will go to the 3v V8 but they want to make sure that it is full proof first before going into a panther. After all, the 3v heads have only been around since 04', that's about 2 1/2 model years so far. The interceptors will probably see them either during a midyear change during 07' with an early 08' model. Oh yeah, the Mustang tranny is a no no... It's the same POS they used in the Ranger. It won't take the abuse of the 4R70W and besides, there is already a six speedautomatic version of that transmission and it is being used in the new Explorer. That's the transmission they should be using, the new six speed from the Explorer. That thing should take a beating.

[bec5150]

The Crown Vic still has a lot going for it.

 

1. Track record and high-mileage reliability

2. Body on frame design

3. Better fuel economy

4. Abundance of mechanical and body parts

5. Familiarity with chassis dynamics

1. The Crown Vic has been around for many years. They are known for reliability and durability in severe service. The Charger Hemi is unknown for police work in the long-term. It may turn out just as durable, but that is the unknown factor right now.

 

2. Body on frame adds rigidity and strength. Also the long overhangs of the CV can in likelihood be a benefit. to protecting the front suspension and rear axle. The Charger's wheels are pushed to the corners which could render a police car undrivable in some situations.

 

3. The Hemi will not get as good of gas mileage as the Ford. There's no replacement for displacement, but the penalty will be decreased mileage and likely significantly. The MDS on the Charger will only help in cruise mode. Lots of starting and stopping deactivates the MDS. My Crown Vic can cruise at 65 and get 28 mpg on 87 octane. The Charger Hemi will run on 87, but 89 is preferred choice as stated by Chrysler. Fuel cost will be higher in Charger than Ford and if the Georgia Patrol (and others) choose to use 89, they will incur a larger fuel expense. For this reason, I suspect Hemi Chargers will be used primarily on major routes in smaller quantities, taking the place of aging Camaro pursuit cars with the added benefit of being able to transport easier.

 

4. The Crown Vic can roll into the state's repair shop and be out probably much quicker than a Charger will. There is an advantage for Ford using the same car all these years in that many parts are interchangable. When a part does break, the CV is probably in and out and with expected body damage, the CV most likely quicker to repair.

 

5. LEOs are well-trained in how the CV handles, brakes and accelerates in given situations. The Charger will no doubt be better in the performance category, but will react differently in real-world situations.

 

Law enforcement in general love the Vic because they are built to take a lot of abuse that most cars simply can not take. I've seen a few accidents involving Vics where I wondered if it would have been survivable in other comparable sedans. One lawman recently described the Vic's best attribute as being "built like a tank" and they are comfortable. Fleet buyers in the state may rather go with the Chargers in limited numbers, but I will be willing to bet that a vast majority of LEOs would still prefer the comfort and security that goes along with the Vic.

Reads an awful lot like the argument that the Checker Cab Manufacturing Company made about it's vehicle before they closed up shop.

[sa_seahawker]

The Crown Vic still has a lot going for it.

 

1. Track record and high-mileage reliability

2. Body on frame design

3. Better fuel economy

4. Abundance of mechanical and body parts

5. Familiarity with chassis dynamics

 

 

Actually, during the Michigan State Highway Patrol tests (2006) the Hemi Charger and V6 Charger had better gas mileage than the CV. (ref Page 58)

 

Michigan State Highway Patrol Police Vehicle Evaluation (PDF)

[Anthony]

NH picks up 46 Chargers...

 

UnionLeader.com

[DRODMOTORS]

Ah, that explains why I see the Mustang cruisers around the Doraville GM plant. I know to slow down there. As for the Intrepids, I thought it was that they couldn't keep up when I ran for it on I-85 in Gwinnett area. Other than that 285 is rarely patrolled from what I've seen, but with the big CF/parking lot that it is, enforcement isn't really needed...if anything everyone is breaking the minimum speed limits during rush hour.

 

EDIT: Found the hero card from my dealers fleet department on CVs. It mentions the 75mph test: "Tested to meet 75 Mile-per-Hour Rear Crash Test - The Crown Victoria is the only police pursuit sedan that is designed and tested to meet 75-mph rear-end crash tests. No other car is tested to this standard."

Funny, it also mentions that the police Impala "is not equipped with a live rear axle."

Edited April 30, 2006 by DRODMOTORS

[retro-man]

Reads an awful lot like the argument that the Checker Cab Manufacturing Company made about it's vehicle before they closed up shop.

Dude, you beat me to it. :slug: That's exactly what popped into my mind as I was working my way down the thread. When is enough enough already? The rate Ford's (not) going on the Panther, I guess we'll find out.