cobra8 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I have heard at least one auto analyst say on CNBC say a new contract is likely (personally I dont know of this being an option but: From The Detroit News http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../810240431/1148 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lquidspine Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 I have heard at least one auto analyst say on CNBC say a new contract is likely (personally I dont know of this being an option but: From The Detroit News http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../810240431/1148 "Gettelfinger acknowledged that he was in discussions with the Big Three automakers as they grapple with the immense impact of the global financing crisis and the worst auto sales market in 15 years, but he declined to provide details." So how many of those 15 years where Record setting profit years? I am not saying that there is not a crisis on our hands in this country or the world but Do Not re-open the contract. We re-opened the contract twice last contract and not even a full year after this one is in place there is already talks of re-opening the current one. The Only Way I would support a move like this is if American Auto Executives get their pay and bonus's in line with our foreign rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Contract WILL be reopened!!!!!!!1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockofCashel Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 (edited) Here's a scarry thought. Van Dyke keeps bringing people in when they don't need them, Romeo will start the 3rd shift back up by middle of Jan. All the higher seniority people on lay off or JSP will be placed at these two and other plants. After no more than 2 months, plants will lay off again, this time all low seniority, under ten is my guess, will be laid off. Contract will be reopened, JSP will be dropped or reworded, big checks handed out to pass vote. People will exhaust layoff and be shit out of luck come no later than next Sep. There could possibly (probably) be a large check for buydowns included also. Just my two cents, but company can't afford to keep paying people to sit at home for two years. JSP may be funded, but they could use that money somewhere else. Edited October 25, 2008 by RockofCashel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeye4life Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 if they open the contract, what's everyones thoughts, Will they open the buyout window back up. There are some in jsp that havent taken the buyout because they can ride it out but if you cant sit home and draw 85% mabye they will leave? How about going to a national senority list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damagedone37 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 look for a 5-15% wage buydown from the big three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockofCashel Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 if they open the contract, what's everyones thoughts, Will they open the buyout window back up. There are some in jsp that havent taken the buyout because they can ride it out but if you cant sit home and draw 85% mabye they will leave? How about going to a national senority list? National seniority is pretty much what I think they would go for. They're not going to want a guy with 25 years on layoff/JSP while someone with 8 is still working. That would explain why there hasn't been any inverse seniority layoffs and that would be why they want to expand plants, get everyone placed by seniority, the layoff again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGER66 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 National seniority is pretty much what I think they would go for. They're not going to want a guy with 25 years on layoff/JSP while someone with 8 is still working. That would explain why there hasn't been any inverse seniority layoffs and that would be why they want to expand plants, get everyone placed by seniority, the layoff again. I dont think it will happen because ford has enough problems without moving every seniority empl. ever time they want to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasyfrank Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 look for a 5-15% wage buydown from the big three. Look for that any anything else from the big 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantasyfrank Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 National seniority is pretty much what I think they would go for. They're not going to want a guy with 25 years on layoff/JSP while someone with 8 is still working. That would explain why there hasn't been any inverse seniority layoffs and that would be why they want to expand plants, get everyone placed by seniority, the layoff again. i've said this months ago and people thought I was crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustard Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 National seniority is a joke. the company could care less about how much time you have and , with the leveling date still in the contract most people will have 10/29/84 so the union dont care either. Dont know to much about Romeo but Van Dyke is become a transmission assembly plant they out source 80% of the internals to non Ford Co's. while retaining gears from Sharonville so if they were to spin off or sell the plant they would retain propritery control out of Sharonville. Now lets look at what the company wants 14.80 per hour. If you take 30 yr people and put them in a plant and tell them they are making 14.80 what will happen? so you put them in a 20% 14.80 plant and take the low senoirity and put them at a plant that will be 100% 14.80 tell them the profit sharing has been re worked by plant so there is no buydown they dont have the choice to say screw this I am retireing. Now they keep the plants that are profitable sell the ones that are not and start padding the boards pockets again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Worker 1994 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Here's a scarry thought. Van Dyke keeps bringing people in when they don't need them, Romeo will start the 3rd shift back up by middle of Jan. All the higher seniority people on lay off or JSP will be placed at these two and other plants. After no more than 2 months, plants will lay off again, this time all low seniority, under ten is my guess, will be laid off. Contract will be reopened, JSP will be dropped or reworded, big checks handed out to pass vote. People will exhaust layoff and be shit out of luck come no later than next Sep. There could possibly (probably) be a large check for buydowns included also. Just my two cents, but company can't afford to keep paying people to sit at home for two years. JSP may be funded, but they could use that money somewhere else. Hey Rock, How much truth to the rumor about Romeo starting 3rd shift back up ??? :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local400future Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 National seniority is a joke. the company could care less about how much time you have and , with the leveling date still in the contract most people will have 10/29/84 so the union dont care either. Dont know to much about Romeo but Van Dyke is become a transmission assembly plant they out source 80% of the internals to non Ford Co's. while retaining gears from Sharonville so if they were to spin off or sell the plant they would retain propritery control out of Sharonville. Now lets look at what the company wants 14.80 per hour. If you take 30 yr people and put them in a plant and tell them they are making 14.80 what will happen? so you put them in a 20% 14.80 plant and take the low senoirity and put them at a plant that will be 100% 14.80 tell them the profit sharing has been re worked by plant so there is no buydown they dont have the choice to say screw this I am retireing. Now they keep the plants that are profitable sell the ones that are not and start padding the boards pockets again. The difference between the Big 3, Ford specifically, and American Axle is that if we took a 50% paycut, just think of the damage that will do to Ford Motor Credit. The first thing I'd do is call FMCC and tell them to come get my van. Also, the company does care about seniority because of pensions. The company does not owe anything to anyone under 10 years. Have you not noticed that they went to straight seniority instead of inverse with no questions or protests from the UAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local400future Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 i've said this months ago and people thought I was crazy. Fear. People are afraid this could happen, so when someone vocalizes it, they just say that person is crazy. Ignorance is bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTPT Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 if they open the contract, what's everyones thoughts, Will they open the buyout window back up. There are some in jsp that havent taken the buyout because they can ride it out but if you cant sit home and draw 85% mabye they will leave? How about going to a national senority list? Nothing is going to happen. They're either going to sell some vehicles in the next 18 mths or go bankrupt. That simple, what you see is what you get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerhero Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Also, the company does care about seniority because of pensions. The company does not owe anything to anyone under 10 years. Have you not noticed that they went to straight seniority instead of inverse with no questions or protests from the UAW? Wrong, you’re vested after 5 years, national seniority will never happen. if Ford gets the UAW to eliminate JSP and Sub pay they would want higher seniority people out. Really do you think they would want to pay someone with 25 years $45,000 to transfer and take a job form someone with 5 years seniority. The 5-year worker is probably younger and more productive… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordtpworker1993 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wrong, you’re vested after 5 years, national seniority will never happen. if Ford gets the UAW to eliminate JSP and Sub pay they would want higher seniority people out. Really do you think they would want to pay someone with 25 years $45,000 to transfer and take a job form someone with 5 years seniority. The 5-year worker is probably younger and more productive… Shit man they have paid to transfer people with over 30 years, I've also said this a long time ago....it just might happen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadzee Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Shit man they have paid to transfer people with over 30 years, I've also said this a long time ago....it just might happen! If this nightmare were to occur, I think they would also address the allowances for moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) look for a 5-15% wage buydown from the big three. They wanted this last year like I told u all!! I was right then and now but look for a 20% cut in our overall pay package including benefits, no more defined pension but a 401K. And a natl seniority list simular to chryslers!!! 15 yrs gets u a job for sure!!!!!!!!!! Edited October 27, 2008 by CSMJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendew_15 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) I could be wrong but I dont think they are giving enhanced moving any longer unless your plant is closed for good.The way the new JSP is structured you really cant sit there and collect ,if you pass on 2 openings then you go off rolls?This would eliminate the reason for enhanced moving(45,000),right? Also the UAW would never let the JSP program go completely 100%,this holds the company accountable for layoffs and closures with some sort of penalty.Atleast that is what it was designed for.The want a mass layoff they have to pay us, clear and simple. Like Frank has said we are either going to survive or we're not,it's that simple.It isn't a question of us busting our ass to make better cars any longer know it is in the hands of the execs and the consumers to do there part.We have busted our ass' getting our quality right and competitve and our costs down,now they have the tools let's see if they can use it. Edited October 27, 2008 by hendew_15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandmaster B Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 They wanted this last year like I told u all!! I was right then and now but look for a 20% cut in our overall pay package including benefits, no more defined pension but a 401K. And a natl seniority list simular to chryslers!!! 15 yrs gets u a job for sure!!!!!!!!!! You were not right! You are not right now either. You are talking out of your ASS, like you always do. Stop trying to scare the shit out of people. There's no 20% buydown in the work's! Rest assured everyone will see their pension and keep your seniorty also. LONG LIVE THE UAW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
local400future Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wrong, you’re vested after 5 years, national seniority will never happen. if Ford gets the UAW to eliminate JSP and Sub pay they would want higher seniority people out. Really do you think they would want to pay someone with 25 years $45,000 to transfer and take a job form someone with 5 years seniority. The 5-year worker is probably younger and more productive… Nope. They don't owe you a pension until you've worked 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMJ Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) You were not right! You are not right now either. You are talking out of your ASS, like you always do. Stop trying to scare the shit out of people. There's no 20% buydown in the work's! Rest assured everyone will see their pension and keep your seniorty also. LONG LIVE THE UAW! My 4 uncle's all said they would see there pensions also until the mills went bankrupt in west va. The same thing is happening to the auto unions unless there is a change we will end up like the steel,airlines,rubber unions!! The buydown was talked about last year like it or not its a fact! Gm needs to cut costs 1 way or another there gonna get it!! Either through reopening the contract or having a federal judge do it remember everyone said DELPHI will not go under and it did!!!!! Its not what u hope will happen its a fact that there real close to going under. 2 yrs to a company is nothing. FACT is ford and GM will still make cars after a bankruptcy filing just as DELPHI and the airlines r still in business!! And Im agreeing with someone I didnt start the buydown talk so go and yell at that guy that did, but u wont because u want to yell at the king of this site.. US C S M and J get a life lol Just remember the UAW is the king of all unions and they will do whats necessary to keep it that way, and they will find a medium to keep Ford/GM out of bankruptcy court also because there too big to fail. Edited October 27, 2008 by CSMJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homerhero Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Nope. They don't owe you a pension until you've worked 10 years. you don't know what your talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el norte Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 i've said this months ago and people thought I was crazy. still do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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