Wage cuts Rumor

[bigredmachine]

Since the meetings with congress it seems that a plan must be submitted to congress to show how the big three plan to recover. There is much speculation that ford is going to ask to reopen the contract and ask us for a wage reduction. this is not acceptable. If the company wants to save and try to force wage cuts then show us by example. All executives starting at the top and working down take the same percentage cut they are going to propose we take lead by example!!!!! If they wont do that then i say we dont even discuss opening the contract.

[Big City]

Since the meetings with congress it seems that a plan must be submitted to congress to show how the big three plan to recover. There is much speculation that ford is going to ask to reopen the contract and ask us for a wage reduction. this is not acceptable. If the company wants to save and try to force wage cuts then show us by example. All executives starting at the top and working down take the same percentage cut they are going to propose we take lead by example!!!!! If they wont do that then i say we dont even discuss opening the contract.

No wage cuts, we are good where we are at.

[Furious1Auto]

Wage cuts won't happen, it is a threat to secure the elimination of JSP which will also cause a strike!

[bleu]

I leased my car under the 2007 contract. If they open it up and get consessions, will I be allowed to take my lease back to the dealership and turn it back in? Without penalty?

[simplesituations]

not an option, can't even support a house on $14 an hour, no way, if we gave up more then the UAW is done

[OTP@OAC]

why doesn't the ceo take a pay cut. I think 21 million might be a little over paid, and they say we make to much money.

[Trimdingman]

why doesn't the ceo take a pay cut. I think 21 million might be a little over paid, and they say we make to much money.

 

Which job is more important, CEO of the Ford Motor Company, or playing third base for the New York Yankees?

 

The problem isn't wages. It is selling cars. That is what needs to be concentrated on. Even if we all worked for free, it would not help unless people start buying cars.

Edited November 28, 2008 by Trimdingman

[jm2607]

No wage cuts, we are good where we are at.

"We're good where we're at" I like that one. NO WAGE CUTS!!

[jm2607]

Since the meetings with congress it seems that a plan must be submitted to congress to show how the big three plan to recover. There is much speculation that ford is going to ask to reopen the contract and ask us for a wage reduction. this is not acceptable. If the company wants to save and try to force wage cuts then show us by example. All executives starting at the top and working down take the same percentage cut they are going to propose we take lead by example!!!!! If they wont do that then i say we dont even discuss opening the contract.

I don't want to discuss it even if they do take a cut. We took cuts in the contract, they didn't, so it's their turn.

[udontkno]

I will not accept a cut in pay or benefits, I say we get a group of union employees from each of the big 3 and demand that Congress meets us! We will exploit the unfair trade agreements that our government has negotiated and is now hurting all U.S. workers. Then we will hit them with the fact that the Germans and Japanese have national health care and the richest nation in the world, the U.S. dosnt. This is the facts that are not being discussed. If the big 3 could wipe away its health care obligations because our government provided national health care, they could then go to the large lending institutions and get the loans. Health care cost is one of the issues preventing the big 3 from getting loans. I would not ask the UAW or any of the international reps for their assistance. I am 110% union but these guys are incompetent to represent us, this is because they are not voted on by the membership but appointed by their friends in international.

 

After all united we stand divided we fall. This is about working Americans not the wealthy corporations that have assets oversea's that they can fall back on if everything in the U.S. goes bust. Just look at Delphi, they used all of the U.S. profits to open plants outside of the country. Then they went bankrupt and said that all of those plants were not part of the bankruptcy. If they had to include the plants outside of the U.S., Delphi would have had enough equity to honor its U.S. pension and health care obligations.

[Len_A]

I will not accept a cut in pay or benefits, I say we get a group of union employees from each of the big 3 and demand that Congress meets us! We will exploit the unfair trade agreements that our government has negotiated and is now hurting all U.S. workers. Then we will hit them with the fact that the Germans and Japanese have national health care and the richest nation in the world, the U.S. dosnt. This is the facts that are not being discussed. If the big 3 could wipe away its health care obligations because our government provided national health care, they could then go to the large lending institutions ad get the loans. Health care cost is one of the issues preventing the big 3 from getting loans. I would not ask the UAW or any of the international reps for their assistance. I am 110% union but these guys are incompetent to represent us, this is because they are not voted on by the membership but appointed by their friends in international.

 

After all united we stand divided we fall. This is about working Americans not the wealthy corporations that have assets oversea's that they can fall back on if everything in the U.S. goes bust. Just look at Delphi, they used all of the U.S. profits to open plants outside of the country. Then they went bankrupt and said that all of those plants were not part of the bankruptcy. If they had to include the plants outside of the U.S., Delphi would have had enough equity to honor its U.S. pension and health care obligations.

If you think for one second that all of the Republicans and most of the Southern, more conservative Democrats, give a shit that Japan and German have national health care and we don't, then you're seriously deluding yourself. They don't give a crap, never did, and never will.

 

Secondly, "national health care" in Germany and Japan means that companies like the automakers have a reduced cost burden, not an eliminated cost burden. Germany's "national health care" system is 77% government funded, 23% private funded, with 85% of the population covered by Germany's national health care. The remaining 15% are covered by private insurance. Japan's "national health care" system government plans only cover the 30% of the population, mostly companies with fewer than 300 people, with the government managing the plans, but the premiums are paid 50/50 by employer and employee. 26% of Japan's population is covered by "Society-managed plans" that are known as health insurance societies, with more than 1,800 company plans. These cover companies with over 300 employees, and are paid with payroll taxes for the plans ranging from 5.8 to 9.5 percent of gross monthly income - employers pay any where form 50% to 80% of these taxes. Employees pay the rest. Another 10% of Japan are government employees or quasi-public employees covered by government plans as government employees. The rest of the population is not covered by national health insurance, but covered by local municipal governments.

 

Third, if you think a group of auto workers (blue collar or white collar) is going to impress anyone in Congress, then again, you are seriously wrong, to the point of delusional. This has become a white collar, high tech oriented society that doesn't want to get it's hands dirty, looks down on people who get their hands dirty (one of the Chicago steel mills is laying off people because of the slow economy - people, mostly snotty assholes, are posting in the newspaper forums that it's the "greedy unions" fault, and that $50,000 a year to work in a steel mill is "grossly overpaid"), and wouldn't want their kids to work any where within a hundred miles of a factory. We can't even get kids to study engineering in college, for fear that the little bastards may actually end up as manufacturing engineers in a dirty old factory. The only manufacturing most of the assholes, that make up the public, have any respect for is either high tech, clean room shit, or any nonunion Southern auto plant or auto supplier. Plus the more plants GM, Ford, and Chrysler have had to shut down, the more allies we lost in Congress.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Len_A

[lovelincolns]

Since the meetings with congress it seems that a plan must be submitted to congress to show how the big three plan to recover. There is much speculation that ford is going to ask to reopen the contract and ask us for a wage reduction. this is not acceptable. If the company wants to save and try to force wage cuts then show us by example. All executives starting at the top and working down take the same percentage cut they are going to propose we take lead by example!!!!! If they wont do that then i say we dont even discuss opening the contract.

 

I agree. The UAW should also demand that the estimated total number of dollars given up by active and/or retirees should be given to the workers in either stock or stock options. That way if/when Ford returns to profitability the workers benefit by increased stock values.

[udontkno]

If you think for one second that all of the Republicans and most of the Southern, more conservative Democrats, give a shit that Japan and German have national health care and we don't, then you're seriously deluding yourself. They don't give a crap, never did, and never will.

 

Secondly, "national health care" in Germany and Japan means that companies like the automakers have a reduced cost burden, not an eliminated cost burden. Germany's "national health care" system is 77% government funded, 23% private funded, with 85% of the population covered by Germany's national health care. The remaining 15% are covered by private insurance. Japan's "national health care" system government plans only cover the 30% of the population, mostly companies with fewer than 300 people, with the government managing the plans, but the premiums are paid 50/50 by employer and employee. 26% of Japan's population is covered by "Society-managed plans" that are known as health insurance societies, with more than 1,800 company plans. These cover companies with over 300 employees, and are paid with payroll taxes for the plans ranging from 5.8 to 9.5 percent of gross monthly income - employers pay any where form 50% to 80% of these taxes. Employees pay the rest. Another 10% of Japan are government employees or quasi-public employees covered by government plans as government employees. The rest of the population is not covered by national health insurance, but covered by local municipal governments.

 

Third, if you think a group of auto workers (blue collar or white collar) is going to impress anyone in Congress, then again, you are seriously wrong, to the point of delusional. This has become a white collar, high tech oriented society that doesn't want to get it's hands dirty, looks down on people who get their hands dirty (one of the Chicago steel mills is laying off people because of the slow economy - people, mostly snotty assholes, are posting in the newspaper forums that it's the "greedy unions" fault, and that $50,000 a year to work in a steel mill is "grossly overpaid"), and wouldn't want their kids to work any where within a hundred miles of a factory. We can't even get kids to study engineering in college, for fear that the little bastards may actually end up as manufacturing engineers in a dirty old factory. The only manufacturing most of the assholes, that make up the public, have any respect for is either high tech, clean room shit, or any nonunion Southern auto plant or auto supplier. Plus the more plants GM, Ford, and Chrysler have had to shut down, the more allies we lost in Congress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Germany's "national health care" system is 77% government funded, 23% private funded, with 85% of the population covered by Germany's national health care. The remaining 15% are covered by private insurance."

 

You made my point, Damiler, BMW ect. do not have to cover all of these cost because the whole country is responsible for health care. In America it is a dog eat dog world and the only people that do not have health coverage is the worker that makes too much to qualify for govt assistance but may not make enough to buy insurance. It is set up to make the wealthy more money at the workers expense. Plus America spends more on health care than any other country in the world, yet Americans are toward the bottom of industrialized countries in health. We are running a for profit system that puts profits ahead of health.

 

And your solution is? I guess that means that working people should take pay and benefit cuts. The big 3 have wasted so much money that it is almost funny how dumb these educated guys were and the UAW sat back and let it happen. If I were running the UAW, all three of the companies would have been struck. They would have had to reinvest in the American and Canadian plants that made them the money.

[228electrician]

I will not accept a cut in pay or benefits, I say we get a group of union employees from each of the big 3 and demand that Congress meets us! We will exploit the unfair trade agreements that our government has negotiated and is now hurting all U.S. workers. Then we will hit them with the fact that the Germans and Japanese have national health care and the richest nation in the world, the U.S. dosnt. This is the facts that are not being discussed. If the big 3 could wipe away its health care obligations because our government provided national health care, they could then go to the large lending institutions and get the loans. Health care cost is one of the issues preventing the big 3 from getting loans. I would not ask the UAW or any of the international reps for their assistance. I am 110% union but these guys are incompetent to represent us, this is because they are not voted on by the membership but appointed by their friends in international.

 

After all united we stand divided we fall. This is about working Americans not the wealthy corporations that have assets oversea's that they can fall back on if everything in the U.S. goes bust. Just look at Delphi, they used all of the U.S. profits to open plants outside of the country. Then they went bankrupt and said that all of those plants were not part of the bankruptcy. If they had to include the plants outside of the U.S., Delphi would have had enough equity to honor its U.S. pension and health care obligations.

 

to march on congress would be a mistake, it would only get twisted in the news that the greedy uaw workers want more than anyone else. you want this issue to be delt with as quietly as possible, no where else is a hilo driver or a machine operater paid as much, and thats what congress will point out. and they will show you how millions are surviving in the southern states on $14 an hour.

[Len_A]

to march on congress would be a mistake, it would only get twisted in the news that the greedy UAW workers want more than anyone else. you want this issue to be delt with as quietly as possible, no where else is a hilo driver or a machine operator paid as much, and that's what congress will point out. and they will show you how millions are surviving in the southern states on $14 an hour.

Exactly. And the news articles that were around when things were much better and showed how UAW members were buying RV's and boats, and other expensive toys will get dragged out to "prove" how high Big Three UAW pay has been in relation to the majority of the middle class. If you guys think this is just Congress giving the Big Three and the UAW a hard time, you guys are badly mistaken. Other car forums out there, especially the car detailing forums, has threads where that posts against the GM, Ford, & Chrysler, and stating their opinions that the union members are overpaid, and that union work rules are somehow at fault for this, is running 20 to 1 against us. Autopia.org, DetailersClub.com, TheTruthAboutCars.com, Autoblog.com (they run a story supportive of the UAW and the reader posts are overwhemlingly against the article and AutoBlog for running it), Jalopnik.com - they are all running against us. Not one thread running in favor of either the Big Three or the UAW. Not fucking one. Members of Congress, both Republican & Democrats, have reports the emails, letters, and faxes are running overwhelmingly against helping Detroit. And these guys think they're going to make a positive impression on Congress?

 

Give me a break. This battle between Detroit auto workers plus other manufacturing union workers and the rest of the public has been a long time brewing, and this is coming to a head now, and we are going to lose. Lose little or lose big, but there is no way we're even going to pull to a draw.

[fantasyfrank]

Which job is more important, CEO of the Ford Motor Company, or playing third base for the New York Yankees?

 

The problem isn't wages. It is selling cars. That is what needs to be concentrated on. Even if we all worked for free, it would not help unless people start buying cars.

Bingo!!!! Best reply on this thread. No matter what concessions we give up, hopefully none but whatever happens won't do shit if we can't sell cars. And in this economy and with nobody working or only making $10 an hour, who is going to buy cars? And if they do buy cars, will they buy a Ford? Not everybody is going to make it in this economy. I don't see how all Big 3 companies will survive thie horrific market right now.

[Trimdingman]

I agree. The UAW should also demand that the estimated total number of dollars given up by active and/or retirees should be given to the workers in either stock or stock options. That way if/when Ford returns to profitability the workers benefit by increased stock values.

 

I agree. That would provide the incentive, and should satisfy the public. Social health care is not the answer. In Canada, we pay higher taxes for health care, so we get a higher hourly rate. It works out to the same thing.

Edited November 29, 2008 by Trimdingman

[livonia1]

Well since we all seem to have to be in the sacrifice mood. I wonder how much our state and federal elected officals are going to sacrifice? I wonder if there are some Stats. on their legacy costs? I'll bet it would impact things in a positive way if they worked for a dollar until they got the economy turned around!!! Since most people don't have medical coverage, shouldn't they work at the same level as most people in the country? It sure seems to me that they are out of line with the average pay of main stream America! Oh, and another quick boost to the economy would be to reduce our property taxes in all 50 states to the level of the new value of our homes and the states that don't have property taxes just return it in some other way. Let's let the states bail out the federal Gov. a bit for a change. We need to start throwing this back in their faces as there seem to be a lot of the pot calling the kettel black going on in D.C.

[allin]

to march on congress would be a mistake, it would only get twisted in the news that the greedy uaw workers want more than anyone else. you want this issue to be delt with as quietly as possible, no where else is a hilo driver or a machine operater paid as much, and thats what congress will point out. and they will show you how millions are surviving in the southern states on $14 an hour.

 

I guess congress isn't looking at the UAW members that are working in California where the cost of living is outrageous. They'd just rip us for being able to afford to drive to D.C.? like they rip us for everything else.

Edited November 29, 2008 by allin

[udontkno]

Auto workers make a fair wage. I say this because educated people in the South or out West are making much more than an autoworker. I will not accept a pay cut or benefit cut, I would rather live like the rest of the country and let the big 3 go bankrupt. This would be hard on most union workers but they have tuition assistance and they could have gone to college. I would probably go for my master's degree if Ford closed its doors. But the only way I can see the big 3 surviving is with all of its workers including white collar taking cuts or our government providing national health care. Now the question is would you bust your butt on the assembly line for $14 an hour with no pension and little health care benefits? Its about time for workers to revolt against the government and demand fair trade agreements! It can be done but it is not going to be done by accepting give backs.

[Makeastand]

Auto workers make a fair wage. I say this because educated people in the South or out West are making much more than an autoworker. I will not accept a pay cut or benefit cut, I would rather live like the rest of the country and let the big 3 go bankrupt. This would be hard on most union workers but they have tuition assistance and they could have gone to college. I would probably go for my master's degree if Ford closed its doors. But the only way I can see the big 3 surviving is with all of its workers including white collar taking cuts or our government providing national health care. Now the question is would you bust your butt on the assembly line for $14 an hour with no pension and little health care benefits? Its about time for workers to revolt against the government and demand fair trade agreements! It can be done but it is not going to be done by accepting give backs.

You may be right. Now may be the time to rise against the government. Wealthy politicians dont like us because we are middle class. They hate the middle class. Any one making $14 an hour is low class in their eyes because at $14 an hour its nearly impossible to own anything of value. At $14 an hour its hard to make the trailer payment. Hell you have to wreck the truck to get the insurance money to make the truck payment. Dont even think about sending your kids to college.

 

Of all the people who hate us, the non union worker (non- auto worker) who is under paid are shooting theirselves in the foot. If you dont organize for collective bargaining you will be under paid. Your company will think you are happy making pennies while they are making millions from your labor. Execs negotiate their pay. Why shouldnt we?

 

I believe the whole mess we are in lies on the shoulders of the government. For the last eight years economists have said "are we heading towards a recession" while the ass holes in charge (bush administration) stare into the camera with a blank face. A stagnant economy hurts every one even the wealthy, but the wealthy will always pull through it and remain wealthy. The middle class however will become virtually extinct and the lower class not only down on the ground, but they get trampled to death like a store employee opening the doors on black friday. The point is, maybe it is time to revolt.

[FordTrucklover]

Auto workers make a fair wage. I say this because educated people in the South or out West are making much more than an autoworker. I will not accept a pay cut or benefit cut, I would rather live like the rest of the country and let the big 3 go bankrupt. This would be hard on most union workers but they have tuition assistance and they could have gone to college. I would probably go for my master's degree if Ford closed its doors. But the only way I can see the big 3 surviving is with all of its workers including white collar taking cuts or our government providing national health care. Now the question is would you bust your butt on the assembly line for $14 an hour with no pension and little health care benefits? Its about time for workers to revolt against the government and demand fair trade agreements! It can be done but it is not going to be done by accepting give backs.

 

90% of us on here (current Ford employees) would NOT hump our butts on line for

$14. per/hr but new hires (i.e. former walmarters,students, young ppl, the

disenfranchised etc) certainly would!..for a lil while anyway, till they found out

how hard the work is! Pay would probably go dwn to more less than !18-22 per/hr

for assembly type work @ full pay. I too would go for my masters but this is the

exception not the rule here. NO PAY CUTS for BIG 3 Gettlefinger!!!!

[Furious1Auto]

"We're good where we're at" I like that one. NO WAGE CUTS!!

 

There won't be any!!!!!!!!!!!

[228electrician]

Now the question is would you bust your butt on the assembly line for $14 an hour with no pension and little health care benefits?

 

if any plant put up a sign that said hiring, $14 an hour, there would be police out front directing traffic from all the people in line trying to get a job. if you don't believe it, make a sign and put it out front of you building saying accepting applications today only $14 an hour and watch the line down the street form.

[Makeastand]

if any plant put up a sign that said hiring, $14 an hour, there would be police out front directing traffic from all the people in line trying to get a job. if you don't believe it, make a sign and put it out front of you building saying accepting applications today only $14 an hour and watch the line down the street form.

True but you could also find some illegal immigrants to do the same work for $2.50 an hour. You can always cut pay and find workers to do the job, but that doesnt make it right. They are trying to evaporate the middle class.

 

Great avatar.