Canada's Parliamentary Crisis

[Dale143]

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qG6UIr8z

[Dale143]

http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qG6UIr8z

 

 

http://blog.unheardamericanvoices.com/2008...karen-hill.aspx

[blazerdude20]

the source that article gives no information on how they got those figures. so where is the proof?

 

and honestly i dont see what the big deal about giving some one two years of education for helping a cause is? the current USA military does this. it actually isnt a bad idea for most young people as you dont end up with a ton of student loans and you get to experience the poverty that faces people in other countries. that experience can make people realize how good they have and how they must do what they can to make life that good for the people in bad situations.

 

besides it is very obvious that the only way we will have a true draft is if wwIII were to break out. if he or any other future pres. were to bring up the idea they would undoubtly be impeached and removed from office

 

i realize this is the good ole USA and all but most other countries require the citizens to serve a set amount of time in the armed forces or other gov. assistance job. doesnt mean they are all over seas dying. it makes it easier for average people to join the military if they so choose, since they recieve weapons and combat training.

 

just my thought.

[Trimdingman]

There is also a left-wing coup underway in Canada. Maybe that is part of the plan.

[Dale143]

Hey,Coming from a military family i am all for two years mandatory service straight out of high school.You would learn respect and discipline and acquire some money for college.You may even like it and make it a career.Also our enemy's may think twice about pushing our buttons do to the size of our standing army.

The discipline itself could solve allot of our problems with Ganges and crime .

 

I was watching the cheach and chong roast last night.I thought it was funny when one of the comedians said"cheach met chong in Canada when he went across the border to dodge the draft.He was the first Mexican to illegally cross the border to get out of the USA."

Edited December 2, 2008 by Dale143

[goinbroke2]

There is also a left-wing coup underway in Canada. Maybe that is part of the plan.

 

I e-mailed 44 MP's last night. Told them it was a back door cheating way to win and if "win at any cost" is what they are comfortable with I hope the population remembers the next election and hammers the liberals worse than last time.

 

Hooking up with the block...unfucking believable! A party who's sole purpose in life is to destroy canada..and they will share the power of the country??? WTF???

[suv_guy_19]

You two should read the Constitution and then get back to me about this "coup." I think your right though, the population will remember....that the government couldn't keep the confidence of the House for more than 6 weeks. They didn't even try. Instead of working for the people, they decided to play games with the opposition. They kept poking the Liberal's with a stick over and over and over and they thought they could do it again. This time, they poked all three parties....well, it looks like the other parties are going to take the stick and beat them over the head with it.

 

Its not just the opposition that is mad either. yesterday, Rob Nicholson (Minister of Justice), and Stockwell Day (Whatever he is now) didn't even stand up to applaud the PM during Question period in the House. So many Conservatives in the party are fuming at the arrogance of Harper and Flaherty. Even if the government stays in power, Flaherty's days are numbered, and if they lose power, so are Harper's.

Edited December 2, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[matthewq4b]

You two should read the Constitution and then get back to me about this "coup." I think your right though, the population will remember....that the government couldn't keep the confidence of the House for more than 6 weeks. They didn't even try. Instead of working for the people, they decided to play games with the opposition. They kept poking the Liberal's with a stick over and over and over and they thought they could do it again. This time, they poked all three parties....well, it looks like the other parties are going to take the stick and beat them over the head with it.

 

Its not just the opposition that is mad either. yesterday, Rob Nicholson (Minister of Justice), and Stockwell Day (Whatever he is now) didn't even stand up to applaud the PM during Question period in the House. So many Conservatives in the party are fuming at the arrogance of Harper and Flaherty. Even if the government stays in power, Flaherty's days are numbered, and if they lose power, so are Harper's.

 

 

Do not take any of what is going on at face value here. The main reason the OP's (other parties ) are gunning for a power grab is cause the Conservatives want to end taxpayer funding of all parties.

 

Each party gets something like $1.28 of taxpayers dollars for each vote it gets. To the tune of 30 million an election. Harper wants to get rid of this cause really should we as Canadians be paying to support a party we do not support such as the bloc whose ultimate goal is to break up Canada? The Liberals are cash poor as are the NDP's and the Bloc.

 

The other side affect of this mess is Alberta separatism is back om the rise. If this is what we have to ook forward in this nation to hell with it. Time to pack our bags and go. Cause obviously the old school eastern power base will stop at nothing to insure they are pulling the strings to run the nation.

 

Yes the Conservatives have not made any moves on the economic situation but it is totally pointless to do so until we know what Obama is doing (we are not going to find that out till the end of January) and can coordinate our actions with those of the U.S

 

This coalition Government is about one thing Money. And they are ganging up to insure that they do not loose their spot at the trough.

 

No matter what happens we are going in to anouther election next year unless the OP's back down. Either before Xmas or in the new year when the coalition falls part (which it inevitably will)

 

The liberals have slit their own throats by doing this regardless what happens. The OP's have laid the ground work for a conservative majority. As Canadians are pissed off we elected a government yes it was a minority one just shy of a majority but they had the bulk of popular support by a good margin. Canadians will not forget the unmandated power grab orchestrated by the liberals. People call Harper power hungry but he is not planning to grab the reins of power by usurping the elected government.

 

If the OP's do manage to form a Coalition government and topple the Conservatives it will not be until April at the earliest that they can form a government and have ministers appointed. And that is pushing it May is more realistic. And their is no one from the NDP that has any experience in running a government and very few in the Liberals do as well. And the ones that have, have been involved with some of the worst ones in the nations history.

 

Then we are in to a liberal leadership convention in June.

 

So basically we can look forward to no leadership in this country until mid or late mid year 2009.

 

You think the economic situation is bad now. Ha just wait till this little gong show gets on the road.

 

And you can bet you ass Alberta will not recognize a coalition Government formed by the OP's .

 

We are in for some turbulent times ahead. Hopefully the GG has enough common sense to tell the OP's to cease and desist.

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

First, this is all up to the Governor General, so we really don't know how it will turn out yet.

 

It was about Stephen Harper deciding that he wanted to crush the opposition. There would have been no problem getting rid of the subsidies....provided that he rolled back the entire package. Put the donation limits back where they were. Allow corporations and unions to donate like before. The way he did it would have broken the other parties.

 

These subsidies (in place in almost every other industrialized nation on the planet BTW. They were put in to keep the government out of the pocket of people with money) amount to nothing in the grand scheme of things. They weren't real cuts. They were ideological cuts. That goes for the attempt to eliminate the right of public servants to strike.

 

Its simply amazing that 3 parties can put aside their differences and work together and the Conservatives couldn't even be bothered to do so. I voted for Harper in the election, but I wouldn't do it today. They played a game when they should have been working.

 

The conservatives DO NOT have the popular support. The do not have a majority. It is the job of the government to keep the confidence of the house and not the other way around. This whole thing really bothers me. We wouldn't even be here today is Stephen Harper hadn't tried to play a game.

 

This coalition is more than ready to form government. There are plenty of Liberals with the title Honorable. That means they were ministers in the Martin Government and they will (probably) be again. There are many former provincial ministers and city councilors in the NDP, they will be in government. They only need to find 24 people after all.

 

Whether the Conservatives like it or not, this is how the Westminster system works. This isn't a coup and this isn't even a power grab. The opposition was attacked by the government. Over the last two years, he kept poking the liberals with a stick....this time, he poked all 3 parties. They decided not to take it this time and they're going to use it on him. This is how our system works. It is the way this type of system has worked for over 600 years. Coalitions are the norm in other countries....some, like Italy, even have separatists in the government. This could work. We may get the chance to see, maybe not. If we do, it will be the end of Stephen Harper's career. If it turns out badly, it will be bad for the coalition.

 

We will have to see what happens. No matter what though, this is our system at work.

 

Oh, and I'm just as worried about Alberta separatism as I am about Quebec separatism....that is....not at all.

Edited December 2, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Trimdingman]

I think that Obama is behind the whole thing. He wants a far left government in Canada to match the US. A large C Conservative government in Canada would make him look weak.

[suv_guy_19]

That said, this is still funny:

 

[suv_guy_19]

Sorry to hijack the thread BTW, but this is a very big deal here.

 

September 9, 2004

 

Her Excellency the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson,

C.C., C.M.M., C.O.M., C.D.

Governor General

Rideau Hall

1 Sussex Drive

Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0A1

 

Excellency,

 

As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the

Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister

to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons

fail to support some part of the government’s program.

 

We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together

constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We

believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give

you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the

opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising

your constitutional authority.

 

Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

 

Sincerely,

 

Hon. Stephen Harper, P.C., M.P.

Leader of the Opposition

Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada

 

Gilles Duceppe, M.P.

Leader of the Bloc Quebecois

 

Jack Layton, M.P.

Leader of the New Democratic Party

[Trimdingman]

The timing of this move is very suspicious. I suspect a US connection. The whole country is in an uproar. The Liberals are committing suicide. They know it, and they still are not backing off. There has to be something bigger going on.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Trimdingman

[suv_guy_19]

Angus Reid CTV Poll:

 

35% CPC government should continue

 

40% No CPC, government should not continue

 

37% want coalition to take over

 

32% new election

 

People don't want Stephane Dion though, I missed that number, sorry.

 

The coalition is ahead....but the county is very divided.

 

A very divided country...but....

[matthewq4b]

First, this is all up to the Governor General, so we really don't know how it will turn out yet.

 

It was about Stephen Harper deciding that he wanted to crush the opposition. There would have been no problem getting rid of the subsidies....provided that he rolled back the entire package. Put the donation limits back where they were. Allow corporations and unions to donate like before. The way he did it would have broken the other parties.

 

These subsidies (in place in almost every other industrialized nation on the planet BTW. They were put in to keep the government out of the pocket of people with money) amount to nothing in the grand scheme of things. They weren't real cuts. They were ideological cuts. That goes for the attempt to eliminate the right of public servants to strike.

 

Its simply amazing that 3 parties can put aside their differences and work together and the Conservatives couldn't even be bothered to do so. I voted for Harper in the election, but I wouldn't do it today. They played a game when they should have been working.

 

The conservatives DO NOT have the popular support. The do not have a majority. It is the job of the government to keep the confidence of the house and not the other way around. This whole thing really bothers me. We wouldn't even be here today is Stephen Harper hadn't tried to play a game.

 

This coalition is more than ready to form government. There are plenty of Liberals with the title Honorable. That means they were ministers in the Martin Government and they will (probably) be again. There are many former provincial ministers and city councilors in the NDP, they will be in government. They only need to find 24 people after all.

 

Whether the Conservatives like it or not, this is how the Westminster system works. This isn't a coup and this isn't even a power grab. The opposition was attacked by the government. Over the last two years, he kept poking the liberals with a stick....this time, he poked all 3 parties. They decided not to take it this time and they're going to use it on him. This is how our system works. It is the way this type of system has worked for over 600 years. Coalitions are the norm in other countries....some, like Italy, even have separatists in the government. This could work. We may get the chance to see, maybe not. If we do, it will be the end of Stephen Harper's career. If it turns out badly, it will be bad for the coalition.

 

We will have to see what happens. No matter what though, this is our system at work.

 

Oh, and I'm just as worried about Alberta separatism as I am about Quebec separatism....that is....not at all.

 

 

 

We do not need the subsidies. Political donations should come from the party supporters. With limits as we have now. Do you really want to return to every special interest groups or corporation having the ears and control over your elected officials. Give me break . Have a look down south how well that has worked.

 

Or the Airbus fiasco with Mulroney or the multiple scandals of Cretan’s gov't. Give your head shake man.

 

 

This is a thinly veiled power grab bottom line. Wake up.

 

 

If a party is struggling with no money then obviously their platform or ideology does not appeal to the people, who are not willing to support them.. Simple as that. What is proposed will make all parties more accountable to the whole nation and not just regional politics or ideologies.

In the end we would end up with Political parties that better reflect the what Canadians and the nation as whole want. The abolition of these subsidies would end these regional political parties. Who it would hit the hardest is the Bloc. It would basically make them a non player. as they bloody well should be.

 

 

 

Unless something is done to force the parties to appeal to a broader voter base you can get used to coalition governments cause that is going to be par for the course for the foreseeable future. Harper knows this. And is trying to stop it. And lets face it coalition governments in this nation rarely work and usually proceed periods of economic slowdown as nothing gets done.

 

 

The Op's are claiming that the reason for the is the lack of economic plans. Hell the current Gov't has not even finished meeting with Auto industry and other concerned industries.

 

 

The party orchestrating this are the bloc they are the king makers in this situation. Duceppe has had issues with Harper in a big way as he has made separation a non issue in the last 2 elections. He has nuttted the Bloc. He has to get rid of Harper by any means necessary. If they are going to remain a viable party.

 

Wake up and realize what is going on. Dion and Layton are pawns in a bloc plan. And those 2 clowns are so concentrated on their own aspirations, they do not realize they are being used to the detriment of the whole nation.

 

 

 

And it is not about Harper about trying to play games your being led down the path. Harper said in his from his campaign of 2006 that he wanted to make parliament more reflective of the wishes of the nation as a whole. He is trying to implement change to insure that we as a nation move forward and are not bogged down by the continual regional infighting that has plagued this nation since Trudeau came to office. Of course the Op"s are going to fight this tooth and nail and do whatever it takes to stop as they do not have broad nation wide support. Nor do they appeal to ever one across the nation. The liberals had their worst showing in history. And now they are trying to usurp the elected government,

 

 

To date Harper is the only that has tried to build a stronger nation he made concessions to appease the Bloc and the hard core francophone’s in Quebec. Got rid of the Political donations from special interest and wealthy individuals that in the past has compromised what was best for the nation. He wants the parties to stand on their own merits and not be forcibly supported by the tax payer. I mean really should you tax dollars or my tax dollars be used to support parties that are striving to break up Canada or have policy's or ideologies that you or I do not agree with ?

 

 

As for keeping confidence of the house that is a nice ideology but it does not happen when the other parties do not have the best interests of the nation at heart. They are doing this for their own selfish gain and not for what is best for the nation. Not by a damn long shot.

 

 

This can only go on like this for so long. People are fed up.

 

And you better be worried about Alberta packing up and going, Unlike Quebec we do not need to hold a referendum to leave Canada. The LG (Lieutenant Governor)here just has to rubber stamp it. And we are gone. It was a clause in the Alberta act of 1905 in regards to sensation. This is why Alberta separation has gained so much attention without having a lot of vocal support. This also how we got control of our recourses back from the Feds in the 1930 's. It was either give it back or we are outta here situation.

 

Alberta separatism approval ratings is currently higher than it was during the NEP. So ya you better start worrying about it. If Harper is toppled then you can look forward to a pissed off ready to walk Alberta.

if Dion pulls a green shit plan crap we are outta here.

 

Matthew

[Trimdingman]

What will stop the Tories from turning around and offering the Bloc more, and forming a Tory-Bloc coalition? This could go on forever. There is a big flaw in our constitution. Anyway, the Governor General is the representative of the Queen of England. What relevence would she have to say a Quebec separatist, or an Italian-born Canadian, or a 13 generation European-Canadian/17,000 year Aboriginal like myself? Why is England still running Canada?

Edited December 3, 2008 by Trimdingman

[matthewq4b]

What will stop the Tories from turning around and offering the Bloc more, and forming a Tory-Bloc coalition? This could go on forever. There is a big flaw in our constitution. Anyway, the Governor General is the representative of the Queen of England. What relevence would she have to say a Quebec separatist, or an Italian-born Canadian, or a 13 generation European-Canadian/17,000 year Aboriginal like myself? Why is England still running Canada?

 

 

 

Trim get over it England does not run Canada.

 

Do you even know what the GG does or why the position is there?

 

Once you figure that out you will realize England does not run Canada.

 

And Harpers Conservatives had the oppornutiny to topple the Martin minority Government with an allince with the Bloc and did that happen ? Hell no.

 

If Harper aligned with the Bloc it they would lose the Conservative power base in Western Canada.

 

Matthew

Edited December 3, 2008 by matthewq4b

[suv_guy_19]

Matthew, I'm not even replying to the substance because anything you or I say is simply opinion, I like you, and I don't want to get into a discussion that isn't going to go anywhere good.. This is Parliamentary Democracy at work. This is how our country is governed. This is in our constitution. We don't elect governments, we elect MPs. The MPs decide governments amongst themselves. Its the way it is.

 

Oh, and if Alberta really wants to leave that bad....if you really think that Canada is about nothing more than politics....if you really always feel that your getting screwed (your not)....then I really don't know what to say.

Edited December 3, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[matthewq4b]

Matthew, I'm not even replying to the substance because anything you or I say is simply opinion, I like you, and I don't want to get into a discussion that isn't going to go anywhere good.. This is Parliamentary Democracy at work. This is how our country is governed. This is in our constitution. We don't elect governments, we elect MPs. The MPs decide governments amongst themselves. Its the way it is.

 

Oh, and if Alberta really wants to leave that bad....if you really think that Canada is about nothing more than politics....if you really always feel that your getting screwed (your not)....then I really don't know what to say.

 

 

Alberta has 450 Billion reasons to want out as that is how much more Alberta has sent to Ottawa than it has recieced back in transferre payments. 450 Billion dollars. That is almost 10 times more than any other province. There is a huge disparity between who pays the bills for Canada and who is calling the shots. Qubec on the other hand has Sucked over 400 Billion out Ottawa more than they have paid in. 10 times more than other province. Our national debt is directly a result of the continuos hand outs to the province of Quebec from decades of french PM's.

 

Bottom line is Alberta and Albertans are fed up with paying the bills and getting the shaft in return.

If Alberta leaves, Canada is finished as we are the ones paying the bills that keep the nation afloat.

Canada haa accomodated Quebec given them hundreds of billions of dollars and what have got in return for it ?? Strife pain and unstabilty. The Bloc needs to go bottom line. And any coalition that involves them having a say in the governing this nation is tantamount to treason IMHO.

 

If it happens the very real possibility of Alberta leaving exsists. Diffierance is Alberta would not just survive but would prosper far greater than being a part of Canada. We know this but have tolerated this and put up with the crap for decades for the good of the nation and continued to dump billions of dollars a year in to the nation. But there comes a time when enough is enough.

 

Matthew

[suv_guy_19]

I understand where your coming from, but I love this country, and I would never agree that it is better off in pieces that as a whole, no matter what happens next. Canada will get through this turmoil, of that I have no doubt. We have some work to do, but we'll come through this. I'm not sure what the outcome should be or what it will be, but no matter what it is, Canada will and should remain whole.

 

This country is more than just a name. Its the idea that all of these different groups can live together and get along. That because some provinces don't have what they need, the others give them enough to survive and to flourish. I can't think of any place I'd rather be. We are truly lucky, and I hope that all Canadians remember that, no matter what the outcome.

 

That said, I am concerned. I simply wish that Mr. Dion and Mr. Harper would sit down and work this out. It could be done. There's no reason it shouldn't be. They should both get past the anger and greed. I really am torn on this. I want the system to work as designed, but I don't want it to end in further division (though I still don't think anyone will separate). We need leadership now, and for once, I've lost confidence in the government (and the opposition. I understand where they're coming from....or...at least the Liberals....but I don't think its best right now).

 

They should work it out. Then, when this is over, the government should launch a massive education campaign to explain our government system t the people. There's not enough understanding.

Edited December 4, 2008 by suv_guy_19

[Trimdingman]

I love this land, regardless if it is called Canada, or something else. My people were here before it was called Canada. My concern with being governed is loss of freedom. Why is it up tp the representative of the queen to decide how government is run here? I know what the responsibilities of the G-G are. I just don't like it. In 1749, the British made it illegal for Aboriginals in Nova Scotia, my ancestors, to breathe. A bounty was placed on us like wild animals. Now I am expected to bow down to them. There are a lot of Canadians who have a bad taste bowing to the Redcoats. I have no objection to being allies, but I don't want them in my government or on my money. If the country breaks up, the land will still be here, and I will still be here.

[suv_guy_19]

Just to make it clear, to us she is not he Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but rather the Queen of Canada. The Governor General, as acting head or state will make the decision. It may seem archaic, but it has worked for over 600 years in many different countries. It is in fact the oldest governing system that is still alive today.

[napfirst]

I think we should rename this post

[NickF1011]

I think we should rename this post

 

I'm not really paying attention to this one, but I'll change the name of it if someone gives me an agreeable idea.

[matthewq4b]

I understand where your coming from, but I love this country, and I would never agree that it is better off in pieces that as a whole, no matter what happens next. Canada will get through this turmoil, of that I have no doubt. We have some work to do, but we'll come through this. I'm not sure what the outcome should be or what it will be, but no matter what it is, Canada will and should remain whole.

 

 

Hey I totally agree with you.

 

This country is more than just a name. Its the idea that all of these different groups can live together and get along. That because some provinces don't have what they need, the others give them enough to survive and to flourish. I can't think of any place I'd rather be. We are truly lucky, and I hope that all Canadians remember that, no matter what the outcome.

 

That is there in lies the problem certain factions with in the nation are not doing so. And it is the province that has received more than any region let alone province that is being disruptive.

 

 

That said, I am concerned. I simply wish that Mr. Dion and Mr. Harper would sit down and work this out. It could be done. There's no reason it shouldn't be. They should both get past the anger and greed. I really am torn on this. I want the system to work as designed, but I don't want it to end in further division (though I still don't think anyone will separate). We need leadership now, and for once, I've lost confidence in the government (and the opposition. I understand where they're coming from....or...at least the Liberals....but I don't think its best right now).

 

They should work it out. Then, when this is over, the government should launch a massive education campaign to explain our government system t the people. There's not enough understanding.

 

 

The issue here is not Dion or Layton or even Harper. It is Giles Duceppe. Remember what the mandate of the Bloc is. To garner separation for Quebec by any legal means necessary and to Disrupt Parliament. The Bloc has stated this on many occasions. The Bloc will bed with who ever can disrupt the Federal Government and cause distention and just generally make a mess of stuff. They were ready to bed to down with the Conservatives to topple the Martin minority Gov't . But the Conservatives after considering the matter decided against it as it was not in the best interest of the nation.

 

Yes they considered it. But after examining the situation and decided it was not best for the nation.

 

 

You thin things are bad now If we end up with a Coalition of government we basically will have Gilles Duceppe running the nation. As the Coalition will have to cow tow to every Bloc demand or they will fall.

The Bloc in effect will be running the nation. A party that has less than %10 of the support of the nation.

 

A very scary situation indeed. Now maybe you understand a little better why Alberta is saying if the Coalition grabs power we want out.

 

Gilles Duceppe Is a very smart man and is no idiot the only party leader that is any where near as astute and intelligent as him is Harper. Gilles has done a great job of passing the buck off to Dion and Harper and making both look like the bad guys when the real evil is the Bloc. The Bloc has done nothing positive in Parliament nor brought anything positive to the table. The goal of the other parties should be to get rid of them and get those seats back in the fold of a national party. The conservatives have pretty much burned their bridges in regards to that. And Dion is not smart enough nor a good a enough strategist to realize that by winning back the Bloc seats they have the best chance of forming a majority Gov't.

 

 

 

All parties should be working together to get rid of them and quit this damn in fighting and trying to bed down with them. They should be working together to pass legislation to get rid of them.

All it would take is legislation that requires "parties" running for Parliament have to field candidates in at least 4 provinces or just under half the nation.

 

That would pretty much stop any one province or region from trying to hijack Parliament. Yes it is not really fair but after the antics of the Bloc something has to be done to prevent this from happening in the future.

 

Until the Bloc is removed from Parliament or we kick Quebec the hell out of the confederation. (BTW they get to leave with what they joined with as the rest of Quebec was turned over to Canada NOT Quebec) The political climate in this country is going to remain fractured and disruptive, it is going to continually damage our economic stability and growth potential. Unfortunately the Only party that has this figured out are the Conservatives. As long as the Bloc remain in Parliament we going to get to look forward to successive minority Governments. And a governing body that has no power to affect change.

 

The single biggest issue facing this nation is not the economy but the Party Bloc Quebecqois. Cause until they are out of the picture nothing in this nation can get properly resolved.

 

 

Matthew

Edited December 4, 2008 by matthewq4b