littletimmy Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I just talked to the ETAP lady at international and she said that after Jan. 31 no more ETAP or dependent scholarship funding. It is suspended until further notice. I would like to personally thank the UAW for showing how truly useless they are. Nice trying to get more efficient and smarter workers, but not paying for their schooling like most $8 an hour shops do. Where do I put my X to stop paying union dues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I just talked to the ETAP lady at international and she said that after Jan. 31 no more ETAP or dependent scholarship funding. It is suspended until further notice. I would like to personally thank the UAW for showing how truly useless they are. Nice trying to get more efficient and smarter workers, but not paying for their schooling like most $8 an hour shops do. Where do I put my X to stop paying union dues? I think you littletimmy are extremely ungrateful!! The U.A.W., company, and ETAP funds not only paid for the rest of my Associates Degree, but all of my Undergrad Degree and a Masters Degree as well. I'll I can say is plenty of people had the opportunity to take advantage of this program and don't even start with the "I didn't have time". I was working 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, gave birth twice, extremely ill, and still managed to get educated. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU UAW,FORD, AND ETAP programs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrod Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 That is very bad news!! I first heard about it last week but reserved saying anything until it was made official, which I'm not sure it is official yet since the "bailout" hasn't happened. A group of us in Cleveland have been going for a few years now. Most quit early on, but 10 of us finished our Associates and now only have 8 more classes to get our Bachelor Degree. I wish there was some other program(s) that could be given up instead of ETAP, because it really is good for the company to have better educated workers. P.S. Not to go off on a rant here but if Ford doesn't need the money yet, if at all, then UAW-Ford should not give anything up (especially ETAP) until they do need the money. We have all given plenty of concessions over the last 2 contracts all in the name of making this company more competitive. Lets stick with the Way Forward Version 3, or is it 4,5, or 6, and see if it works like we have been told all along!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littletimmy Posted December 15, 2008 Author Share Posted December 15, 2008 That is very bad news!! I first heard about it last week but reserved saying anything until it was made official, which I'm not sure it is official yet since the "bailout" hasn't happened. A group of us in Cleveland have been going for a few years now. Most quit early on, but 10 of us finished our Associates and now only have 8 more classes to get our Bachelor Degree. I wish there was some other program(s) that could be given up instead of ETAP, because it really is good for the company to have better educated workers. P.S. Not to go off on a rant here but if Ford doesn't need the money yet, if at all, then UAW-Ford should not give anything up (especially ETAP) until they do need the money. We have all given plenty of concessions over the last 2 contracts all in the name of making this company more competitive. Lets stick with the Way Forward Version 3, or is it 4,5, or 6, and see if it works like we have been told all along!!! You are right if they don't need this loan why is Ronny G. giving Ford everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTP_UAW Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 I just talked to the ETAP lady at international and she said that after Jan. 31 no more ETAP or dependent scholarship funding. It is suspended until further notice. I would like to personally thank the UAW for showing how truly useless they are. Nice trying to get more efficient and smarter workers, but not paying for their schooling like most $8 an hour shops do. Where do I put my X to stop paying union dues? The ETAP benefit was in the paltry bulletin that we were given before the contract vote. I'm kind of confused as to why we can vote on a National Agreement containing this language, and this can be removed before the next contract. Sorry, but just spouting yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganTruck_Mafia Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I just talked to the ETAP lady at international and she said that after Jan. 31 no more ETAP or dependent scholarship funding. It is suspended until further notice. I would like to personally thank the UAW for showing how truly useless they are. Nice trying to get more efficient and smarter workers, but not paying for their schooling like most $8 an hour shops do. Where do I put my X to stop paying union dues? Ford knows when workers get educated, they will leave for greener pastures. Keeping workers uneducated limits their options for better jobs, making it more likely they will stay. And more importantly, accept concessions and work rules changes to keep their jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdevo Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Does anyone know or care to take a guess as to what "suspended' actually means? Is ETAP officially eliminated, or is the program temporarily suspended until we see better days? I have a bad feeling that UAW/Ford will use the term of "suspended" for ETAP as well as anything else our Reps. concede. I'm not certain, but I am thinking that by "suspending" programs, that means WE, the membership, do not get to vote on these concessions! I hope I'm wrong on this, but I've got a bad feeling that this is contractual language BS that originally was agreed upon in our contract, but since these programs aren't being eliminated but only "suspended", then we have no say in these concessions! I don't like the looks of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBGB Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Does anyone know or care to take a guess as to what "suspended' actually means? Is ETAP officially eliminated, or is the program temporarily suspended until we see better days? I have a bad feeling that UAW/Ford will use the term of "suspended" for ETAP as well as anything else our Reps. concede. I'm not certain, but I am thinking that by "suspending" programs, that means WE, the membership, do not get to vote on these concessions! I hope I'm wrong on this, but I've got a bad feeling that this is contractual language BS that originally was agreed upon in our contract, but since these programs aren't being eliminated but only "suspended", then we have no say in these concessions! I don't like the looks of this. I hate to say it, but you are probably right. I have a feeling this won't be the last time we find out another benefit is "suspended". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littletimmy Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 Does anyone know or care to take a guess as to what "suspended' actually means? Is ETAP officially eliminated, or is the program temporarily suspended until we see better days? I have a bad feeling that UAW/Ford will use the term of "suspended" for ETAP as well as anything else our Reps. concede. I'm not certain, but I am thinking that by "suspending" programs, that means WE, the membership, do not get to vote on these concessions! I hope I'm wrong on this, but I've got a bad feeling that this is contractual language BS that originally was agreed upon in our contract, but since these programs aren't being eliminated but only "suspended", then we have no say in these concessions! I don't like the looks of this. The lady that I talked to at international said suspended, but when I asked if or when it will be reinstated she said no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) The lady that I talked to at international said suspended, but when I asked if or when it will be reinstated she said no. That is not what was said. It is being "suspended" not eliminated. When Ford returns to viability, the program will probably be reinstituted.... Right now it is just 8 million a year we don't have. These programs are from money that is not in any bank account. It is from Ford's hard cash. The amount generated for our use was based on hours worked and overtime worked by each employee. As you can probably guess...with 40k less employees working....and no overtime being worked or very little....the funds are not being generated for the program to be funded anyway...along with the fact that we have to make some cuts...and at 8 million a year cut to a program that is only used by less than 10% of the employees for their children should be one of the first cuts. It's a matter of prioritizing. I agree it was a great benefit....and I also believe that it is one that will be returning when we return to profitability.....else....the word "eliminated" would have been used. Ford and the UAW have always believed in the further education of our members and their families. Edited December 16, 2008 by level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdevo Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Level, if this program is being used by less than 10% of the employees and/or their children, then how could it cost $8 million a year? You stated that this is money that is not initially set aside therefore it is coming directly out of Ford's pocket. Therefore, I would assume that the only moeny spent is when employees are using the program. $8 million a year would seem to equate to more than 10% of employees, particularly when the yearly cap for each employee is around $4500. Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTPT Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Level, if this program is being used by less than 10% of the employees and/or their children, then how could it cost $8 million a year? You stated that this is money that is not initially set aside therefore it is coming directly out of Ford's pocket. Therefore, I would assume that the only moeny spent is when employees are using the program. $8 million a year would seem to equate to more than 10% of employees, particularly when the yearly cap for each employee is around $4500. Just wondering. The subcouncil letter says that 5% use it and it cost 15 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littletimmy Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 That is not what was said. It is being "suspended" not eliminated. When Ford returns to viability, the program will probably be reinstituted.... Right now it is just 8 million a year we don't have. These programs are from money that is not in any bank account. It is from Ford's hard cash. The amount generated for our use was based on hours worked and overtime worked by each employee. As you can probably guess...with 40k less employees working....and no overtime being worked or very little....the funds are not being generated for the program to be funded anyway...along with the fact that we have to make some cuts...and at 8 million a year cut to a program that is only used by less than 10% of the employees for their children should be one of the first cuts. It's a matter of prioritizing. I agree it was a great benefit....and I also believe that it is one that will be returning when we return to profitability.....else....the word "eliminated" would have been used. Ford and the UAW have always believed in the further education of our members and their families. That is exactly what was said you cock!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 That is exactly what was said you cock!!!!!!!!!!I know you didn't just call level a "cock". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm2607 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I just talked to the ETAP lady at international and she said that after Jan. 31 no more ETAP or dependent scholarship funding. It is suspended until further notice. I would like to personally thank the UAW for showing how truly useless they are. Nice trying to get more efficient and smarter workers, but not paying for their schooling like most $8 an hour shops do. Where do I put my X to stop paying union dues?Are you kidding me?????? You people on here kill me! Go ahead stop paying dues-- and while your at it-- go to work for one of those"$8 an hour shops and then you'll see just how "useless" they are. It's people like you that go on a PUBLIC forum and bitch about the uaw that makes the public think of us the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordguy61mi Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 You know what sucks, I just got my form in the mail to get my transcripts from my last school so I could send it to my new school and start going again in the spring. I guess I waited too long, I thought it would always be there when I was finally ready to finish. I guess if I want it right now it I'll have to fork out the money myself. Damn. I hope this benefit does return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) Level, if this program is being used by less than 10% of the employees and/or their children, then how could it cost $8 million a year? You stated that this is money that is not initially set aside therefore it is coming directly out of Ford's pocket. Therefore, I would assume that the only moeny spent is when employees are using the program. $8 million a year would seem to equate to more than 10% of employees, particularly when the yearly cap for each employee is around $4500. Just wondering. Well, I do not have the exact breakdown, but this is more than just the employees getting tuition at 4500....it is also the dependent tuition assistance....and most people have more than 1 child getting such assistance at 1500 per child. Even if it is 10% or 15%....or if it is 8 million or 10 million.... the point is that it if you are going to make any sacrifice for the benefit of the whole mass...you should prioritize cuts that have a high cost and only benefit the few....that way the "whole" may take less of a cut overalll.... I was trying to make that point.....not be an accountant....hope that clears it up Edited December 16, 2008 by level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 That is exactly what was said you cock!!!!!!!!!! Little Timmy has a Potty mouth. Bad timmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeastand Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 That is exactly what was said you cock!!!!!!!!!! You are the kind of moron that makes union autoworkers look bad. Pat yourself on the back. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioDiesel Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 I know you didn't just call level a "cock". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littletimmy Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 You are the kind of moron that makes union autoworkers look bad. Pat yourself on the back. :reading: Stop your high brow attitude. It's like the first time that you heard the work cock in your life!!!!!!!!!! COCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wlbren Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 You know what sucks, I just got my form in the mail to get my transcripts from my last school so I could send it to my new school and start going again in the spring. I guess I waited too long, I thought it would always be there when I was finally ready to finish. I guess if I want it right now it I'll have to fork out the money myself. Damn. I hope this benefit does return. You have till Jan 31 to apply for the money for the spring semester, you have to pay and then send copies of classes and payment, with the form and they will reimberse you for up to $1500, unfortunately for us might be a while before we get it again. It has been good for my son who has been going to Junior College it payed for the biggest part of the tuition which was great. Now that I was really looking forward to using that money when each semester is over $3000. Oh well hopefully it will come back before he finishes his next 2 1/2 years. Is a great benefit for us will be greatly missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makeastand Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Stop your high brow attitude. It's like the first time that you heard the work cock in your life!!!!!!!!!! COCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCKCOCK You just proved yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imdevo Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 OK. I'm not an accountant either, so let's just agree that suspending ETAP will save Ford $8 million (I assume per year, which should cover CEO's salary for about 1 1/2 months or so). For me personally, it isn't that big of a deal. I will soon graduate with a Masters degree so I was lucky to have most of my course work completed before the suspension. I guess I'm more irritated with the idea that my contract that I voted for is now being rewritten without my consent. I feel that ETAP was a benefit I received for not getting an hourly raise for the last 6 years or for the next 4 years. ETAP is a benefit for agreeing to an alternative work schedule, for agreeing to the establishment of VEBA, for agreeing to a wage for new-hires at $14, and for the countless other items that Ford wanted me to agree to. I assumed that this is how we bargained for a contract. I'm all for helping my company during hard times but I wonder how much money we could save by "suspending" some programs that management enjoy? (Other than cutting white collar jobs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
level Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 OK. I'm not an accountant either, so let's just agree that suspending ETAP will save Ford $8 million (I assume per year, which should cover CEO's salary for about 1 1/2 months or so). For me personally, it isn't that big of a deal. I will soon graduate with a Masters degree so I was lucky to have most of my course work completed before the suspension. I guess I'm more irritated with the idea that my contract that I voted for is now being rewritten without my consent. I feel that ETAP was a benefit I received for not getting an hourly raise for the last 6 years or for the next 4 years. ETAP is a benefit for agreeing to an alternative work schedule, for agreeing to the establishment of VEBA, for agreeing to a wage for new-hires at $14, and for the countless other items that Ford wanted me to agree to. I assumed that this is how we bargained for a contract. I'm all for helping my company during hard times but I wonder how much money we could save by "suspending" some programs that management enjoy? (Other than cutting white collar jobs). I understand and agree with your statement. I'm sure most people feel that way, as well as the UAW....which is why Our President called for equality of sacrifice......... on that note....these things (educational) were suspended for salary a while ago.... on the CEO wages.....I am with you 100% I agree that Mullaly has proven himself to be the best choice for our troubled industry, which is the reason he was chosen after Boeing was restructured under his watch.....however the pay for CEO's around the world has risen dramatically....as well as those salaries of professional sports players breaking records....all while the wages of blue collar are being pointed out as the reason these companies and businesses fail........burns my ass to no end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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