RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 BTW--------aren't the most expensive Porsches and Lambos AWD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ask Ford if they would rather have Ferrari market share than what they have now. Ask Ferrari if they'd rather have Ford's volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ask Ferrari if they'd rather have Ford's volume. and legacy costs, and UAW obligations and work force. then see if they still want to build niche performance cars at the rate they do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ask Ferrari if they'd rather have Ford's volume. Because Ferrari's an independent car maker....... :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know if you caught the press note or not, but Lincoln did very well last year in terms of market share. New Focus gets here in a year or two How many cars did Lincoln sell compared to Lexus? I remember the days when nobody outsold Lincoln. Wasn't that long ago.. Toyota's RWD Lexus cars ARE shared--among each other and among Toyota products sold in Japan. Aren't they the same but with a Turdyota badge? Furthermore, there is no basis for believing that the Falcon could underpin a luxury car. The only pseudo luxury car that the Falcon chassis ever produced was axed a couple years ago due to exceptionally low volume. The idea that a Falcon could be turned into a luxury car at the drop of a hat is a ridiculous notion. What? Why not? How is a Taurus any better at that? As it stands, both the Falcon & Mustang are generating enough sales in their respective markets to justify periodic improvements. Hmmm, RWD cars that stand on their own and make profits? I think Lincoln could use some of that.. Btw, the GT500 is Ford's most profitable vehicle. Just sayin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 and legacy costs, and UAW obligations and work force. then see if they still want to build niche performance cars at the rate they do now. Numbers aren't everything, if that was the case then Toyota would build the best cars on Earth, I beg to differ.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 BTW--------aren't the most expensive Porsches and Lambos AWD? Yup, however, they are rear engine cars, most of the weight, and power, is put through the rear tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yup, however, they are rear engine cars, most of the weight, and power, is put through the rear tires. I don't think Lambos are rear engined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomServo92 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't think Lambos are rear engined. Mid-engined I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I knew about this a few weeks ago, but I wanted to wait for the press to get wind of it. Basically, Ford's investment in RWD cars depended solely on whether Australians REALLY wanted them. Guess what... they do not. Ford's market research has indicated that Australian customers would prefer extra feature content and refinement at a given price, versus RWD. Did you wonder why the 4.0L I6 got a reprieve? It was because Ford didn't feel there was any point to re-engineering the Falcon for a RWD-mounted 3.5L V6, because the architecture will be dead soon anyway. You want RWD? Too bad no one else does. I'll take my Audi RS4 against any piece of junk RWD garbage you can throw at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (edited) Numbers aren't everything, if that was the case then Toyota would build the best cars on Earth, I beg to differ.. where did i imply Ford cars were better or more exciting than a Ferrari? EMOTION does not always make business sense. You cant feed a family of 250,000 with warm fuzzy feelings or RWD product if its not selling. i LOVE the G8 BTW. almost bought one last year. but as ive said many times before, (you could search it if that feature worked on this site....) its the right car, at the worst possible time. Edited January 12, 2009 by Sixt9coug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't think Lambos are rear engined. I consider any car that has the engine behind you to be "rear engined", rather it's mid or rear seems to be a matter of semantics.. Cept for Porsche which hangs em out on the rear bumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I consider any car that has the engine behind you to be "rear engined", rather it's mid or rear seems to be a matter of semantics.. Cept for Porsche which hangs em out on the rear bumper. It's not a matter of semantics. Rear engined = flywheel is at the front of the engine. mid engined = flywheel is at the back of the engine. ---- BTW Wescoent: crazy crazy crazy news about Oz..... I'd believe (based on the success of Toyota there) that the market as a whole isn't as attached to RWD as those of us outside Oz sometimes like to think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I knew about this a few weeks ago, but I wanted to wait for the press to get wind of it. Basically, Ford's investment in RWD cars depended solely on whether Australians REALLY wanted them. Guess what... they do not. Ford's market research has indicated that Australian customers would prefer extra feature content and refinement at a given price, versus RWD. Did you wonder why the 4.0L I6 got a reprieve? It was because Ford didn't feel there was any point to re-engineering the Falcon for a RWD-mounted 3.5L V6, because the architecture will be dead soon anyway. You want RWD? Too bad no one else does. I'll take my Audi RS4 against any piece of junk RWD garbage you can throw at it. A BMW M3 would eat your lunch.. That's real sad news btw, total performance is dead, how long before before the Mustang is turned into a Celica? Why do I have a feeling Ford's info on what the Australians want is based on what Ford "thinks" they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 A BMW M3 would eat your lunch.. That's real sad news btw, total performance is dead, how long before before the Mustang is turned into a Celica? Why do I have a feeling Ford's info on what the Australians want is based on what Ford "thinks" they want. My experience indicates otherwise. Not to mention, add ANY precipitation to the mix, and your M3 is in the ditch choking on my exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Why do I have a feeling Ford's info on what the Australians want is based on what Ford "thinks" they want. Quick quiz Blueblood: Which of these manufacturers sells the most cars in Australia? a ) Holden b ) Ford c ) Toyota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 where did i imply Ford cars were better or more exciting than a Ferrari? EMOTION does not always make business sense. You cant feed a family of 250,00 with warm fuzzy feelings or RWD product if its not selling. i LOVE the G8 BTW. almost bought one last year. but as ive said many times before, (you could search it if that feature worked on this site....) its the right car, at the worst possible time. You said the Focus and Fusion together outsold the BMW line-up as if sales numbers were the most important thing. You also can't sell RWD product if it isn't being sold, right? FWD isn't better, it's cheaper, and that's why the bean counters are running with it. If you took an AWD Taurus and disconnected the front axles, do you think most people would know or care? I don't think so. I love the G8 too, and I see it the other way, with people dumping their SUV's and trucks, why wouldn't they want a RWD V8 sedan that's built like a tank? Think of it this way, let's say Toyota secretly made the Camry RWD, do you think it would cost them any sales? If the Toyota-dorks didn't know, they wouldn't care. Of course you need to take advantage of the many design, safety, and handling benefits RWD offers to make it worth it.. It's really sad for us performance nuts that Ford is giving us the finger, when we've been loyal to them more than anyone, all to cater to retards who buy Toyota's and think of the car as an appliance. I can spend my money elsewhere if they'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvrsvt Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I dont understand the hatred that people have with RWD vs FWD/AWD...I've had two Front wheel drive cars (Escort GT and Focus SVT) and two RWD (Mustang GT's), to be honest,in every day driving it really doesn't matter IMO, except when it snows out..the SVT Focus was better in white stuff with All Season tires vs the Current Mustang. I guess the S197 will be around for a LONG time...maybe we'll finally see an IRS in it... to open a different can of worms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wescoent Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Mustang GT Shelby GT500 Taurus SHO Flex EcoBoost (a 355hp MINIVAN) MKS EcoBoost MKT EcoBoost F-150 Raptor Fusion Sport Excuse me?! Ford is now selling a 355hp MINIVAN and a 425hp desert chaos truck, and you're complaining they don't offer anything for performance freaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 do you think it would cost them any sales? It would either cost them sales or profits. Because, as you say, RWD is more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It's not a matter of semantics. Rear engined = flywheel is at the front of the engine. mid engined = flywheel is at the back of the engine. ---- Taurus/Mustang, both front engined cars, different engine layout, semantics..anyways.. BTW Wescoent: crazy crazy crazy news about Oz..... I'd believe (based on the success of Toyota there) that the market as a whole isn't as attached to RWD as those of us outside Oz sometimes like to think. They are attached to quality, most people don't have the slightest clue which wheels power the car, or what makes a good vehicle. Ford is throwing out everybody that likes to drive, Toyota people hate cars and view them as appliances only, and you want to cater to them? You can build great automobiles that everyone wants if you wish. This FWD Nazi shit is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Toyota people hate cars and view them as appliances only Ford mortgaged all their assets 2 years ago. Toyota didn't. Whatever you think of them, overall, they're doing something right. ---- BTW: How's those RWD LX cars doing for Chrysler? How's the RWD G8 and CTS doing for GM? Sure keeping those companies out of trouble and off the dole, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixt9coug Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You said the Focus and Fusion together outsold the BMW line-up as if sales numbers were the most important thing. You also can't sell RWD product if it isn't being sold, right? FWD isn't better, it's cheaper, and that's why the bean counters are running with it. If you took an AWD Taurus and disconnected the front axles, do you think most people would know or care? I don't think so. I love the G8 too, and I see it the other way, with people dumping their SUV's and trucks, why wouldn't they want a RWD V8 sedan that's built like a tank? Think of it this way, let's say Toyota secretly made the Camry RWD, do you think it would cost them any sales? If the Toyota-dorks didn't know, they wouldn't care. Of course you need to take advantage of the many design, safety, and handling benefits RWD offers to make it worth it.. It's really sad for us performance nuts that Ford is giving us the finger, when we've been loyal to them more than anyone, all to cater to retards who buy Toyota's and think of the car as an appliance. I can spend my money elsewhere if they'd like. In this market, id say YES! sales are more important to a company that is in such deep poo poo. No, most Taurus or Camry owners wouldnt know if itheir own car was RWD. But if FWD is cheaper and easier to produce, WHY would you make a more expensive car when you dont have to? what safety aspects does a RWD car have over FWD? any one can be engineered to be as safe in a crash, and i would argue there are better interior packaging advantages with a FWD vehicle over a RWD one. (no trans hump, no driveshaft hump, less complicated rear suspensions be it SRA or IRS) I see it my way witht he G8. "with people dumpiung their SUV's and trucks" why are they NOT buying that partivular RWD sedan? a larger, heavier, more spacious 355hp, AWD, twin turbo sedan, that gets better milage than the V8 Mustang is giving us the finger? where is this "elsewhere" you would buy your car from? BTW, as ive said many many times, i LOVE RWD cars. ive never owned a FWD vehicle but it allll goes back to my first point in this response. NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR NICHE CARS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 My experience indicates otherwise. Not to mention, add ANY precipitation to the mix, and your M3 is in the ditch choking on my exhaust. Only retards race in the rain. I guess all those BMW's, Ferrari's, Porsche's, Mercedes, Koeniseggs, and all pre late 70's Fords are "garbage".. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblood Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Quick quiz Blueblood: Which of these manufacturers sells the most cars in Australia? a ) Holden b ) Ford c ) Toyota why not just buy one if you think they are so damned great? I think Toyota's are boring junk.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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