Ford Halts Plans for RWD Cars

[RichardJensen]

why not just buy one if you think they are so damned great? I think Toyota's are boring junk..

Oh geeeeeeeeeemmeeeeeneeeeeeeee.

 

That's so much like "Well why don't you marry it, if you think it's so great!" it's not even funny. It's HYSTERICAL

 

---

 

Point is, Toyota knows what sells, as a general rule.

 

Also a correction: Mid engined cars have the flywheel at the back of the engine OR the cranshaft CL ahead of the transmission. Opposite for rear engined cars.

[7Mary3]

G.M. came to this conclusion over a year ago. The story was posted here, and many commented that G.M. didn't know what they were doing, didn't have any balls, ect.. I countered by saying watch and see, G.M.'s reasoning was valid and Ford would eventually follow suit. Funny thing is G.M. has enough volume in some lines to keep RWD alive, maybe Ford does too in the Mustang. But for main-stream family cars, FWD is the only answer.

[NickF1011]

Mustang GT

 

Shelby GT500

 

Taurus SHO

 

Flex EcoBoost (a 355hp MINIVAN)

 

MKS EcoBoost

 

MKT EcoBoost

 

F-150 Raptor

 

Fusion Sport

 

Excuse me?!

 

Ford is now selling a 355hp MINIVAN and a 425hp desert chaos truck, and you're complaining they don't offer anything for performance freaks?

 

 

No shit! That's the most comprehensive and powerful "sporty" lineup Ford has likely EVER offered in the United States. But, some people will always want more.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Only retards race in the rain.

 

Damn those retards in Formula One, WRC, ALMS, etc...

Edited January 12, 2009 by NickF1011

[Blueblood]

Oh geeeeeeeeeemmeeeeeneeeeeeeee.

 

That's so much like "Well why don't you marry it, if you think it's so great!" it's not even funny. It's HYSTERICAL

 

Good, maybe you should marry a beige 1998 Camry..

 

 

Point is, Toyota knows what sells, as a general rule.

 

 

Ask anybody who won't buy American and buys Toyota's if it's due to FWD.

 

Also a correction: Mid engined cars have the flywheel at the back of the engine OR the cranshaft CL ahead of the transmission. Opposite for rear engined cars.

 

If it's behind my butt, it's in the rear in my book. :reading:

[Blueblood]

It would either cost them sales or profits. Because, as you say, RWD is more expensive.

 

Well that's what we've been told over the years, is it reall true? IDK..

[Blueblood]

 

Ford mortgaged all their assets 2 years ago. Toyota didn't.

 

Whatever you think of them, overall, they're doing something right.

 

If they were doing something right in my book they'd have something I'd want to buy.

 

BTW: How's those RWD LX cars doing for Chrysler? How's the RWD G8 and CTS doing for GM? Sure keeping those companies out of trouble and off the dole, eh?

 

Are they causing them any trouble? I'd say the LX cars sustained Chrysler until now, imagine if their top offering the past few years had been the Sebring and Avenger..

[Noah Harbinger]

Fuck you, you're a pathetic simpleton, it figures you'd resort to insults, I guess it's all you've got when defending the indefensible. AND your mr. moderator too, how sad you are.

 

Spoken like someone who wants other people to "play nice" so you can say whatever crap you want without being called on it.

[Blueblood]

In this market, id say YES! sales are more important to a company that is in such deep poo poo.

 

Well if they are profitable sales yea, Ford loses money on every Focus they sell, and the make the most profit on the GT500.

 

No, most Taurus or Camry owners wouldnt know if itheir own car was RWD. But if FWD is cheaper and easier to produce, WHY would you make a more expensive car when you dont have to?

 

To cater to the buyers in that market? I'm not saying all mainstream cars should be RWD, I was jut using them as examples, I just want one RWD sedan for Ford, and a modern RWD chassis for Lincoln, that's it.

 

what safety aspects does a RWD car have over FWD? any one can be engineered to be as safe in a crash, and i would argue there are better interior packaging advantages with a FWD vehicle over a RWD one. (no trans hump, no driveshaft hump, less complicated rear suspensions be it SRA or IRS)

 

1. No torque steer

2. Accident avoidance that comes from neutral handling resulting from 50/50 weight balance

3. I don't have proof of this one but having the front wheels pushed out towards the front bumpers has to be better in a hard front impact so that your feet and legs aren't crushed by heavy suspension and wheels since they are much closer in a FWD car.

 

I've never been bothered by a trans hump or driveshaft hump. I'm always bothered by cars with little legroom, with FWD there's only so much space for your legs due to the wheelwells being right behind the firewall. Which brings up one thing I've never figured out and that's why nobody builds a FWD car with the transaxle in front of the engine so they can putthe front wheels where they belong ansd get rid of the ugly overhang.

 

 

I see it my way witht he G8. "with people dumpiung their SUV's and trucks" why are they NOT buying that partivular RWD sedan?

 

I think most of it has to do with the fact that most people don't know it even exists, and that it's a Pontiac..

 

a larger, heavier, more spacious 355hp, AWD, twin turbo sedan, that gets better milage than the V8 Mustang is giving us the finger? where is this "elsewhere" you would buy your car from?

 

I think canceling the Falcon and forcing us into nose heavy, FWD cars is sort of, how hard would it be to put that motor in the Fusion and take out the front axle's??

 

I don't know, BMW? Maybe a G8 since I know someone that works for GM and could get a great deal on one since nobody wants em? Thing is, as much as Ford tans my hide I still can't see myself buying anything but a Ford..

 

BTW, as ive said many many times, i LOVE RWD cars. ive never owned a FWD vehicle but it allll goes back to my first point in this response. NOW IS NOT THE TIME FOR NICHE CARS!

 

I just don't understand when RWD became a "niche".. I own one FWD car, a Focus, I love it, and there is only one thing I dislike about it, and that's the poor traction and understeering of the FWD. I've modded the suspension to take some of the understeer out of it, I can even get it to oversteer on corners now with slight inputs o the wheel/brake/gas, and in high speed corners it sticks like glue, but I can only imagine what it would handle like if it had equal weight on the front/rear! My dream Focus is to build a RWD conversion and get it as close to 50/50 as possible. actually now that I think of it, a TT 3.5 would be incredible in one, and should be a lot lighter than any V8. Wouldn't be cheap though!!

[Blueblood]

No shit! That's the most comprehensive and powerful "sporty" lineup Ford has likely EVER offered in the United States. But, some people will always want more.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I'm not sure performance crossovers and mini-vans are even on anybody's radar, but..

 

Where are the performance small cars? Focus? Fusion?

 

 

Damn those retards in Formula One, WRC, ALMS, etc...

 

I was talking on the streets..

[Blueblood]

Spoken like someone who wants other people to "play nice" so you can say whatever crap you want without being called on it.

 

Go away...

[NickF1011]

I'm not sure performance crossovers and mini-vans are even on anybody's radar, but..

 

Where are the performance small cars? Focus? Fusion?

 

What performance crossovers and minivans are you alluding to? The only announced uses of EcoBoost in crossovers is in the Flex and MKT thus far. We'll see it used far more in cars, starting with the MKS and Taurus SHO.

 

As for the smaller cars, it's starting at least. 3.5 in the Fusion with a sport suspension is certainly a start. I think it would be a waste of time to bother with a "sporty" version of the current Focus, don't you?

 

Here's the thing to consider though: You usually see options like these appearing on more expensive vehicles first. Why? Because customers of the more expensive vehicles usually have more money to spend on "toys".

[Sixt9coug]

1. No torque steer

2. Accident avoidance that comes from neutral handling resulting from 50/50 weight balance

3. I don't have proof of this one but having the front wheels pushed out towards the front bumpers has to be better in a hard front impact so that your feet and legs aren't crushed by heavy suspension and wheels since they are much closer in a FWD car.

 

Actually, the larger overhang can allow for more crush space in a FWD car. The Falcon IIRC has a rather large overhang as well due to the I6. The engine and transaxle up front also can help absorb a large chuink of energy in a crash. I still say advantage FWD in a wreck. Its all a tradefff though. Whereas FWD would be superior in snow and other climates (like the better part of the country sees) RWD would be more enjoyable in the dry though.

 

I don't know, BMW? Maybe a G8 since I know someone that works for GM and could get a great deal on one since nobody wants em? Thing is, as much as Ford tans my hide I still can't see myself buying anything but a Ford..

 

Id go G8. bigger, faster and more than 10K less than a comprable, smaller 3 series.

[jpd80]

I knew about this a few weeks ago, but I wanted to wait for the press to get wind of it.

 

Basically, Ford's investment in RWD cars depended solely on whether Australians REALLY wanted them.

 

Guess what... they do not.

 

Ford's market research has indicated that Australian customers would prefer extra feature content and refinement at a given price, versus RWD.

 

Did you wonder why the 4.0L I6 got a reprieve? It was because Ford didn't feel there was any point to re-engineering the Falcon for a RWD-mounted 3.5L V6, because the architecture will be dead soon anyway.

The money was already spent on what was called internally as Project 123 and one prototype was built.

The reason the I-6 got a reprive was because somebody actually computer modelled the emissions of the I-6 and found that the engine and plant could be upgraded for a mere AUS$21 million - USD$14 million.

 

It was cheaper to keep a castings factory, 600 employees and spend $21 million upgrading the I-6

and engine line than introduce an American engine and transmission.

The drop in power and performance was also considered unacceptable by the engineering team.

 

GRWD project was halted in February, Mulally told us then and FoA were doing the engineering.

The Falcon has not been cancelled and it will remain a regional project until 2013.

 

At the moment, Falcon sedan sales range between 2,500 and 3,500 - not too bad compared to Taurus

I'd be more concerned if Taurus numbers don't come up to scratch, it's flat out beating the old CV!!!

 

 

Now having said all that,

If this Taurus is an example of Ford's new direction, then bring it on and let's make it a global car.

I only hope that Taurus, Fusion and Mondeo all become unified on one large FWD/AWD platform.

That would be something worth changing for, something that really Aces Toyota in the market place.

Edited January 12, 2009 by jpd80

[joihan777]

If Ford halts plans on RWD sedans, does that mean they will abandon the RWD Mustang and make it a FWD?

 

In my town there are mostly two kinds of Fords, Mustangs and Fusions.

 

I hope they keep the Mustang RWD. I also hope they maximize the platform by eventually building

a RWD 2 seat convertible Thunderbird out of it (assuming Ford can afford the initial costs,

cuz I know baby boomers would want it).

[RichardJensen]

Of course they'll keep the Mustang---it pays its way.

[joihan777]

Of course they'll keep the Mustang---it pays its way.

 

I hope you are correct (I assume you meant keeping the Mustang as well as keeping it RWD).

 

I got dibs on a blue convertible 50th Anniversay GT!

[armadamaster]

Well said Blueblood! On every point, I can't quote them all.

 

GM is where they are because of over a decade of all the FWD V6 rental cars you can stand, period.

 

The RWD LX cars have carried Chrysler for the last few years, I see almost as many of them on the road here now as I do CamCords.

 

Ford has had a rock solid, highly rated, & profitable RWD fullsize sedan platform with a dedicated customer base.

 

Unfortunately they are too incompetent to throw any investment it's way.

 

But they've managed to keep tossing money into that black hole known as the D3 platform.

 

Who knows, maybe this will help keep the ol’ around for a little while longer.

[twintornados]

Who knows, maybe this will help keep the ol’ around for a little while longer.

 

You may just be right Armada.....the whole global downturn may just well be the call to the governor that Panther was waiting for to tell the executioner to take a break for now.....

 

Now, since Ford isn't going to be spending money on a new rear drive chassis...could we please have an update to Panther??? Give her the new Taurus style treatment on the front end, and those awesome "interceptor style" taillights in the rear. And while we are at it....how about an independent rear suspension from say....an Expedition?? Cost should be nil since the engineering is already paid for.....

[armadamaster]

Now, since Ford isn't going to be spending money on a new rear drive chassis...could we please have an update to Panther??? Give her the new Taurus style treatment on the front end, and those awesome "interceptor style" taillights in the rear. And while we are at it....how about an independent rear suspension from say....an Expedition?? Cost should be nil since the engineering is already paid for.....

 

 

J/k, been waiting for something to use that picture on someone for awhile.

 

You would think so, the Middle East only Gillette grille for the suprisingly makes the front fascia look almost current on the Vic if they'd upgrade the headlamps, the rest is all parts bin stuff like you said.

Edited January 12, 2009 by Armada Master

[Ford Jellymoulds]

 

 

Just changed the cambelt on the wifes shitty FWD Pug sardine tin, it has just about enough space a few inches to get your hand in between the inside wing (fender) and the engine what a horrible piece of engineering. In contrast l can stand up inside the engine bay of my Capri & Escort they have acres of space, simple mechanical parts with just a fuel pipe from fuel tank and a couple of wires are all that connects to a bomb-proof cross-flow to get in the way, RWD rules OK.

[NickF1011]

Well said Blueblood! On every point, I can't quote them all.

 

GM is where they are because of over a decade of all the FWD V6 rental cars you can stand, period.

 

The RWD LX cars have carried Chrysler for the last few years, I see almost as many of them on the road here now as I do CamCords.

 

Ford has had a rock solid, highly rated, & profitable RWD fullsize sedan platform with a dedicated customer base.

 

Unfortunately they are too incompetent to throw any investment it's way.

 

But they've managed to keep tossing money into that black hole known as the D3 platform.

 

Who knows, maybe this will help keep the ol’ around for a little while longer.

 

You know what has carried Chrysler for the past few years? Rams. They are up shit's creek otherwise, LX cars included.

 

And GM is in trouble for reasons that go far beyond its lack of RWD vehicles. Man, that G8 is sure saving them now, huh?

 

And if those Panther customers are so dedicated, why has the vehicle suffered a year-over-year loss of customers for over a decade now?

[Ford Jellymoulds]

You know what has carried Chrysler for the past few years? Rams. They are up shit's creek otherwise, LX cars included.

 

And GM is in trouble for reasons that go far beyond its lack of RWD vehicles. Man, that G8 is sure saving them now, huh?

 

And if those Panther customers are so dedicated, why has the vehicle suffered a year-over-year loss of customers for over a decade now?

 

Happy new year Nick

 

Big Al's not stupid he has changed his RWD Lexus (Picked up 5 JD Power Awards not bad for one car, and for the 8th year on a trot) for a RWD Falcon.

[mackinaw]

You know what has carried Chrysler for the past few years? Rams. They are up shit's creek otherwise, LX cars included.

 

You're 100% correct. When Cerberus tires of the auto game later this year and dissolves Chrysler, Jeep and the Ram pickup (both profitable) will be sold off to somebody and the Chrysler car line-up (money-losers) will go bye-bye.

[jpd80]

You know what has carried Chrysler for the past few years? Rams. They are up shit's creek otherwise, LX cars included.

 

And GM is in trouble for reasons that go far beyond its lack of RWD vehicles. Man, that G8 is sure saving them now, huh?

 

And if those Panther customers are so dedicated, why has the vehicle suffered a year-over-year loss of customers for over a decade now?

Because it is following the example set the the continually refreshed Fivehundred/Taurus?

How many billions since 2004 inception?

Edited January 12, 2009 by jpd80

[NickF1011]

Happy new year Nick

 

Big Al's not stupid he has changed his RWD Lexus (Picked up 5 JD Power Awards not bad for one car, and for the 8th year on a trot) for a RWD Falcon.

 

Big Al doesn't drive a right-hand-drive Falcon around in the U.S. on a regular basis, that much I can assure you of.

 

Because it is following the example set the the continually refreshed Fivehundred/Taurus?

How many billions since 2004 inception?

 

The D3 program really hasn't cost anything more than any other regularly-updated program. The '10 redesign likely got moved forward a year, at the most. Aside from that, you're really not talking about an update schedule that's different from any other model, and thusly, it probably didn't cost more than any other vehicle program either.

 

Continual improvement is the new name of the game at Ford. It has been the name of the game at Honda and Toyota for decades. It's about time one of the Detroit 3 caught on.