Edsel Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't know if anyone has noticed that in of the recent aggreements we haven't taken a hit in our base rate of pay. We give up 80 hour + 1700.00 and the union gives up NOT 1 CENT. Same with the gov that is still asking for more from us. I'll lose almost 5,000 dollars and my benevolent leaders don’t give up a dime. If I gave up $2.00 an hour for 40 hrs X 52 week = 4160.00 but if we did that the union would lose $5.00 a month. Hows that for brotherly love. FUCK NO BONES Quit whining. If it wasn't for YOUR UNION you would be making $25 an hour with NO other benefits. Ungrateful fuck. Some people make me want to puke. Ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aloha Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Quit whining. If it wasn't for YOUR UNION you would be making $25 an hour with NO other benefits. Ungrateful fuck. Some people make me want to puke. Ed. well said!!! union dues dont go up unless your pay goes up.....why is it everyone blames the union? put the blame where it belongs,did the union cause this global recession? why is it only in the us and canada that they are forcing concessions from the workers? makes me want to puke that people want to blame the union. put the blame where it belongs to the fucking governments for allowing imports to flood our markets, but most of you fucking idiots are probably are driving them, so its easier to blame the union Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Quit whining. If it wasn't for YOUR UNION you would be making $25 an hour with NO other benefits. Ungrateful fuck. Some people make me want to puke. Ed. This morning Chrysler said if workers in Canada don't take a 25% pay cut, they are pulling operations out of Canada. Sounds like 25 $ an hour is possible with YOUR UNION. Don't puke on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaah Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't know if anyone has noticed that in of the recent aggreements we haven't taken a hit in our base rate of pay. We give up 80 hour + 1700.00 and the union gives up NOT 1 CENT. Same with the gov that is still asking for more from us. I'll lose almost 5,000 dollars and my benevolent leaders don’t give up a dime. If I gave up $2.00 an hour for 40 hrs X 52 week = 4160.00 but if we did that the union would lose $5.00 a month. Hows that for brotherly love. FUCK NO BONES It's a valid point. Personally I would rather take a $2.00 base cut and keep cola and the other benefits our union has given away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Quit whining. If it wasn't for YOUR UNION you would be making $25 an hour with NO other benefits. Ungrateful fuck. Some people make me want to puke. Ed. How long do you think it's going to take to get back 80 hrs of vacation time? How about $2.00 an hour? We give up more holidays and we loss more ppl? Is that what you want? I am far from an ungrateful fuck, Ford has given me more then I could have imagined. Whether you like it or not the point is all “stakeholder” should be forced to give not just the workers. BTW $50.00 out of every check I get goes into Ford stock can you say that. ASSHOLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I added it up, and it amounts to around fifty grand each to 2012. I am assuming 2% inflation and a 2% pay increase we could have got in Sept. 2011, plus the value of 4 weeks vacation and $6800 in lost bonus money and the $60 a month plus reductions in benefits. That is a huge chunk of change. I am not begrudging it if it turns things around, but I don't feel that the government is appreciating our contribution. We are also giving up our COLA protection which is an act of faith in the government that their policies will not be inflationary. I, personally don't have that faith, but the union obviously does, so I am going along. In the future, I would appreciate it if my income could be kept confidential. I don't see any other profession having their wages plastered all over the media every day, and being blamed for every problem in the economy. In Canada, the cost of health care is nearly bankrupting the country. Put the spotlight on that for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oil workers make a lot more than auto workers. How come they do not get the blame when gas prices go up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastime Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 25.50 CAD = 19.9016 USD Canada Dollars United States Dollars 1 CAD = 0.780456 USD 1 USD = 1.28130 CAD screw that , i'll make more fixing the broken ones .. see ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauraleez Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 It's a valid point. Personally I would rather take a $2.00 base cut and keep cola and the other benefits our union has given away. I agree. I would rather take a wage cut than lose another 40 hours of vacation. If there is anything we need the most, it's vacation. As for Chryslers ultimatum..the government should fire right back at them and tell them " If you don't build anything here..you don't sell anything here!" But we all know they won't do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I agree. I would rather take a wage cut than lose another 40 hours of vacation. If there is anything we need the most, it's vacation. As for Chryslers ultimatum..the government should fire right back at them and tell them " If you don't build anything here..you don't sell anything here!" But we all know they won't do that. Half of the top portion of our wages goes to the government in taxes. Taking a wage cut doesn't impress the government much because it is money out of their pockets. What would really help the auto industry would be for the government to give up some of the sales taxes it charges on new cars. This tax is wrong, anyway. There is no sales tax on houses. Cars are a necessity to-day. A car gets sold several times during its life, and is taxed each time. That is really what is behind the slump in the auto industry. Eliminate the sales tax on cars and the auto industry would come back to life. The government is too greedy and self-serving to consider anything like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Here is the highlights from the ratification vote. Read and decide for yourself! http://www.cawlocal.ca/222/uploads/110D48D..._highlights.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Half of the top portion of our wages goes to the government in taxes. Taking a wage cut doesn't impress the government much because it is money out of their pockets. What would really help the auto industry would be for the government to give up some of the sales taxes it charges on new cars. This tax is wrong, anyway. There is no sales tax on houses. Cars are a necessity to-day. A car gets sold several times during its life, and is taxed each time. That is really what is behind the slump in the auto industry. Eliminate the sales tax on cars and the auto industry would come back to life. The government is too greedy and self-serving to consider anything like that. Not trying to piss you off but you should read what McGuinty is considering (including to new houses). http://www.thestar.com/article/600884 Edited March 12, 2009 by bobsyouruncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 As for Chryslers ultimatum..the government should fire right back at them and tell them " If you don't build anything here..you don't sell anything here!"But we all know they won't do that. I would love to see the gov't do that to them, or any other company who bails out of Canada, or closes it's doors and re-opens under a different name screwing workers out of pensions etc.... As for the "whining" about the Union. There are valid points to both sides. I've always wondered why we continued to pay full pop when we were 2 on 2 off a couple of years ago. Shouldn't it have been half seeing we were only working half the time? I kind of got a problem with that. I also think it's time that this CAW training in plant stopped. It's nothing but a waste of time, and money IMO. There's nothing that's learned in these classes that couldn't be handed out in a leaflet once a month, etc. The CAW is big business now,(and for a long time), and members need to remember this. Doesn't anyone else find it hypocritical that the Union represents the outside workers(Premier), that took over the cleaners jobs that were lost? And have them under the same local? I understand why they want to represent them, but under the same local makes me scratch my head. Shows how important Union dues really are, doesn't it. Now, I am grateful for what the Union has done for me, negotiating wise, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I would love to see the gov't do that to them, or any other company who bails out of Canada, or closes it's doors and re-opens under a different name screwing workers out of pensions etc.... As for the "whining" about the Union. There are valid points to both sides. I've always wondered why we continued to pay full pop when we were 2 on 2 off a couple of years ago. Shouldn't it have been half seeing we were only working half the time? I kind of got a problem with that. I also think it's time that this CAW training in plant stopped. It's nothing but a waste of time, and money IMO. There's nothing that's learned in these classes that couldn't be handed out in a leaflet once a month, etc. The CAW is big business now,(and for a long time), and members need to remember this. Doesn't anyone else find it hypocritical that the Union represents the outside workers(Premier), that took over the cleaners jobs that were lost? And have them under the same local? I understand why they want to represent them, but under the same local makes me scratch my head. Shows how important Union dues really are, doesn't it. Now, I am grateful for what the Union has done for me, negotiating wise, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do.... When 20 people from the shop floor are at CAW training while the shift is running, that's 20 jobs that have to be covered for the shift. Do you want more people layed off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 When 20 people from the shop floor are at CAW training while the shift is running, that's 20 jobs that have to be covered for the shift. Do you want more people layed off? Last I checked, it hasn't brought back the members currently on layoff has it? Sorry dude, but in this time of "crisis" the Union could have made sacrifices in other areas to ease the pain of it's members. And I'm not the only person who thinks the training should be axed. Don't get me started on the Local and the waste that goes on there, at the hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapRoboSitter Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Half of the top portion of our wages goes to the government in taxes. Taking a wage cut doesn't impress the government much because it is money out of their pockets. What would really help the auto industry would be for the government to give up some of the sales taxes it charges on new cars. This tax is wrong, anyway. There is no sales tax on houses. Cars are a necessity to-day. A car gets sold several times during its life, and is taxed each time. That is really what is behind the slump in the auto industry. Eliminate the sales tax on cars and the auto industry would come back to life. The government is too greedy and self-serving to consider anything like that. Uhm.. I just had to pay 5% GST for my house... Now THAT.. is a giant steaming pile of crap! We ALL know, there are no amount of concessions that will make the problems go away because we are not the problem! They are looking for more Turnips to squeeze the juice out of and its not hard to get the public running against us... who really knows how they come up with the $75/hour BS? Does that include maintenance of our bathrooms and costs of the Cafeteria or parking lot lighting? Are they trying to say that, in addition to my hourly wage... they are adding an additional 100% into benefits? I don't spend 80K a year on Glasses, drugs, Tuition, Counselling... Yes pension is a good size chunk of that... but if they are allocating say $10/hr for my pension in 30 years... that is $624 000 ($400/week * 52 weeks * 30 years... quick and dirty) CASH no interest... I don't know about you but even best case scenario, I would be lucky to live long enough to enjoy the cash-value after sucking in Vaporized oil all day in the body-shop... so that leaves another $30/hr? Seriously... I am really curious now ... the number isn't made up... but what comprises it? Regardless... WE are not the problem... Spending billions on failing product (have to give 'em some credit for at least trying), catering to the Executives and their view of "what people want", ignoring the competition, corporate greed and a perception of "infinite customer base so who cares if we piss off a few" mentality that is fine and dandy for having a bad year but span that over 100 years? ... No one will argue that there are bad apples that give us a bad name... The same goes for Management... End result is they need us to keep building a good car... and we need them to design and sell them... There is very little money left to squeeze out of the Salaried (yes some higher-ups make decent money... for the most part you get what you pay for... cut the salary lose the few good ones we have left!) ... They cannot control costs of components... (Are they the problem?) and sending us back many years in benefits and wages will just do wonders for morale that is already as low as it can go... Shouldn't all the Automation and oursourcing over the years be noted as cost savings that have been given up? what other manual-labour industry do you have someone working at the same place from 18 - 65+? There goes all that quality they tout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guilt trip Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) .. who really knows how they come up with the $75/hour BS? The number isn't bullshit. It's a Total Labour Cost, not just current workers wages/benefits. Legacy(retirees costs) is included to drive it up to $70/hour. Oh and you shouldn't need incentive to build a quality vehicle. People should have enough self pride to do so....we're getting paid a pretty good wage..... Edited March 13, 2009 by guilt trip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StapRoboSitter Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The number isn't bullshit. It's a Total Labour Cost, not just current workers wages/benefits. Legacy(retirees costs) is included to drive it up to $70/hour. Oh and you shouldn't need incentive to build a quality vehicle. People should have enough self pride to do so....we're getting paid a pretty good wage to do so. I know its not bullshit.. just would enjoy seeing what makes it up I know legacy costs are high... was Ford/GM/Chrysler not putting the money away for the pensioners back when they were earning a wage? or did they just figure that later generations could make up for promises that were made to our retiree's to get them back to work after a strike... I suppose in my ideal world the banks of the world and my employer would know how to properly invest without having to threaten bankruptcy and threaten with bully tactics to get crumbs from the Government... I do my job because I actually enjoy it! And I could not personally do a job I hated for ANY amount of money... People SHOULD have pride... and most of our brothers and sisters do... we all know the damage one pissy worker can do... (who was made pissy by one pissy supervisor... who was made pissy by his/her supervisor... who is pissy because they got fired from their Job managing BK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAC_Paint Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 The number isn't bullshit. It's a Total Labour Cost, not just current workers wages/benefits. Legacy(retirees costs) is included to drive it up to $70/hour. Oh and you shouldn't need incentive to build a quality vehicle. People should have enough self pride to do so....we're getting paid a pretty good wage..... [/quote Fine. So with all the retired teachers why isn't their labour cost quoted at 300k a year per teacher? The Postal workers make roughly the same wage and same benefits so.. they cost roughly the same $75 per hour, Yet they are paid entirely by the tax payer..but I don't hear the same bitterness and resentment towards them. Just because a segment of the media with an agenda wants to covince the public you make $75 an hour, doesn't mean we have to roll over and wrongly agree that they print the truth. Myself I make $33 an hour and go to the dentist once a year. Stop supporting the Company and media propaganda please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosh Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Last I checked, it hasn't brought back the members currently on layoff has it? Sorry dude, but in this time of "crisis" the Union could have made sacrifices in other areas to ease the pain of it's members. And I'm not the only person who thinks the training should be axed. Don't get me started on the Local and the waste that goes on there, at the hall. Last I checked, cancelling CAW training would add to the list of members layed off. And don't worry, our union will make plenty of sacrifices in the near future. Reducing our holidays by another 40 hours like GM has will put more people on layoff because those holidays won't have to be covered anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsyouruncle Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Ford wants more! Claims GM deal does not give enough! http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/601515 Edited March 13, 2009 by bobsyouruncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 When 20 people from the shop floor are at CAW training while the shift is running, that's 20 jobs that have to be covered for the shift. Do you want more people layed off? It would be ok if something useful was being taught, but I would rather be on the line than sit through this socialist crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electrocutioner Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Ford wants more! Claims GM deal does not give enough! http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/601515 That's some pretty tough talk coming from a Ford exec. Not like one of them to stir up the pot,eh? I'll tell you what Hinrichs, if you like we could agree to giving up Trimdingman's COLA in perpetuity, but that's it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Uhm.. I just had to pay 5% GST for my house... Now THAT.. is a giant steaming pile of crap! We ALL know, there are no amount of concessions that will make the problems go away because we are not the problem! They are looking for more Turnips to squeeze the juice out of and its not hard to get the public running against us... who really knows how they come up with the $75/hour BS? Does that include maintenance of our bathrooms and costs of the Cafeteria or parking lot lighting? Are they trying to say that, in addition to my hourly wage... they are adding an additional 100% into benefits? I don't spend 80K a year on Glasses, drugs, Tuition, Counselling... Yes pension is a good size chunk of that... but if they are allocating say $10/hr for my pension in 30 years... that is $624 000 ($400/week * 52 weeks * 30 years... quick and dirty) CASH no interest... I don't know about you but even best case scenario, I would be lucky to live long enough to enjoy the cash-value after sucking in Vaporized oil all day in the body-shop... so that leaves another $30/hr? Seriously... I am really curious now ... the number isn't made up... but what comprises it? Regardless... WE are not the problem... Spending billions on failing product (have to give 'em some credit for at least trying), catering to the Executives and their view of "what people want", ignoring the competition, corporate greed and a perception of "infinite customer base so who cares if we piss off a few" mentality that is fine and dandy for having a bad year but span that over 100 years? ... No one will argue that there are bad apples that give us a bad name... The same goes for Management... End result is they need us to keep building a good car... and we need them to design and sell them... There is very little money left to squeeze out of the Salaried (yes some higher-ups make decent money... for the most part you get what you pay for... cut the salary lose the few good ones we have left!) ... They cannot control costs of components... (Are they the problem?) and sending us back many years in benefits and wages will just do wonders for morale that is already as low as it can go... Shouldn't all the Automation and oursourcing over the years be noted as cost savings that have been given up? what other manual-labour industry do you have someone working at the same place from 18 - 65+? There goes all that quality they tout... They take all of the costs, and bloat them up as much as possible and divide them into actual hours worked. They subtract coffee breaks, holidays, vacations, breakdowns where the line is stopped, bereavement, washroom reliefs, steward calls, first aid calls, training courses, and down weeks. Every second that you are not actually doing work on the line is subtracted. I know people in other jobs who make $1000 an hour if you calculate their pay that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trimdingman Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Not trying to piss you off but you should read what McGuinty is considering (including to new houses).http://www.thestar.com/article/600884 When the Liberals did this originally, Mike Harris was premier of Ontario, so it wasn't adopted. In Nova Scotia, it was originally called BST, or "blended sales tax". Everybody started calling it the "bull shit tax", so they changed the name to HST, or "harmonized sales tax". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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