A.M.A. Opposes Government-Sponsored Healthcare Plan

[Deanh]

I actually had cause to visit the ER this past weekend I had/have a bad case of strep throat. I had been up north and got home late Friday night and figured I would drop in to my doctors office Monday morning to get some antibiotics to cure it and just nurse it over the weekend. By Saturday night I could hardly breath it was so bad. I went to the ER to see if I could some thing done. I hit the ER at 11:25 PM and left with a prescription Enough antibiotics to carry till me till I got my prescription filled and a small anesthetic spray in hand and tip on gargling with Apple Cider Vinegar. by 12:07, 32 minutes from the time I walked in the door at Sturgeon General.

 

I went home and tried the Cider Vinegar and it was immediate relief and worked better than the spray at quelling the pain. I had a 20 Min wait in the waiting room and seen the doctor almost right away once I was in, and he gave me a homeopathic alternative to boot. And to be honest I think the Cider Vinegar has done more to kill the strep than the antibiotics have.

 

Yup the Canadian system is so broken.

 

 

What most Americans do not realize is the Canadian system is a collection of provincial systems. Some provinces are a gong show others are efficient and effective. It comes down to how well the province is managing it's system. Just as some provinces are mismanaged and run in to the ground. The same goes for health care.

 

Usually (Not Always) the 2 go hand in hand. Oh and by the way Sasks healthcare system has gone to the dogs since the Right leaning Sask party took power, It has been in a downward spiral ever since.

 

See that is the one down fall of our system that is not very tightly regulated at the federal level it can be subject to the whims of the ruling provincial party. And some of the right leaning political parties purposely drive the system in to the ground and then claim it does not work and then push for higher levels of privatization. Nothing on this planet will work if it is purposely mismanaged.

 

No essential service or utility that has been privatized has ever ended up being cheaper for the end user over the long run with out exception. Funny people forget this when essential services or utilities are privatized

 

Any province that has horrible health care is directly due to the clown's the populace of the province put in power.

The tools and regulations are in place at the federal level to have an efficient and cost effective single user pay healthcare in any province in Canada. IF a province has crappy health care it is the fault of that province and not the fault of system it's self.

 

 

Matthew

I busted 4 knuckles in my right hand ( drunk guy was trying to run me down on a motorcycle ) I woke up WRITHLING in pain. Went to Doctors next morning, spent 30 minutes filling out paperwork, got weighed, reflexes tested, saying AHHHHH and having temperature taken. Had to have written permission to have X-rays taken, paid my 10 buck co-pay, went to th Hospital, to fill out MORE paperwork, to have my X-ray taken after 4 hour wait. Had to wait 2 days to go back to the doctors, to fill out [paperwork, pay my $10 deductible to be told I had broken the knuckles to be told I needed a splint ( no cast for whatever the reason )...which lasted a week...hav a knuckleless right hand. I also get allergies which can promote sinus infections, which can be extremely painful, so i make an Appt, to fill out paperwork, to have my weight taken, reflexes and temp, to pay $10 co-pay, to get a prescription for Anti-bi-otics ( another $15 deductible )....hey, not upset...this is just the way it is, hands are out constantly...I mean I obviously need an X-ray, but cannot go direct...theres a convoluted process, and gee, a sinus infection....obviously I need anti-biotics ( which can be bought CHEAP in Mexico ) but I have to go through the "PROCESS'....Whilst I don't think ANY healthcare system is perfect, the system here is a BUSINESS....it is out to make Money...and when it comes to peoples wellbeing is that morally correct?....what of those that cannot afford care or prescription drugs...do we just leave them to the wolves and practice survival of the fittest, aka wealthy????? I don't have the answer, but those that are here criticizing another countries practices that cater to all, not just those with a fat wallet, have OBVIOUSLY never experienced the hardship of having to cope due to lack of monetary status....

Edited July 21, 2009 by Deanh

[macattak1]

And you think this is good?......You are incredibly naive......to the point of being laughable....no matter what is posted on here about the Canadian system, you find a way to explain it away...discredit it or ortherwise dismiss it as a lie.......

 

No! I just get the feeling that the Canadian system has a "Fix" switch. They must because SUV is always talking about how they "Fixed" this problem, that problem, this issue before it became a problem, etc. It's a magical, the Canadian Health care system is.

 

I just wonder. That "Fix" switch works so well for 30 million. But I don't know if it will work in the US. I mean, our SS is already near bankrupt because they keep flipping the "Take Money" switch to fund the military and such.

 

Medicare is already broken so badly, but they are going to cut that to move money over to Universal...

 

The states are cutting Medicaid faster then CA debt interest rises.

 

We have 100k+ bridges in the country that are expired and dangerous. Scratch that. Deadly!

 

Then there are 104 nuclear power plants in the US. We should be building more, but instead we are watching them decommission more and more of them.

 

Where are those "Fix" switches???

 

Peace and Blessings

[napfirst]

I actually had cause to visit the ER this past weekend I had/have a bad case of strep throat. I had been up north and got home late Friday night and figured I would drop in to my doctors office Monday morning to get some antibiotics to cure it and just nurse it over the weekend. By Saturday night I could hardly breath it was so bad. I went to the ER to see if I could some thing done. I hit the ER at 11:25 PM and left with a prescription Enough antibiotics to carry till me till I got my prescription filled and a small anesthetic spray in hand and tip on gargling with Apple Cider Vinegar. by 12:07, 32 minutes from the time I walked in the door at Sturgeon General.

 

I went home and tried the Cider Vinegar and it was immediate relief and worked better than the spray at quelling the pain. I had a 20 Min wait in the waiting room and seen the doctor almost right away once I was in, and he gave me a homeopathic alternative to boot. And to be honest I think the Cider Vinegar has done more to kill the strep than the antibiotics have.

 

Yup the Canadian system is so broken.

 

 

What most Americans do not realize is the Canadian system is a collection of provincial systems. Some provinces are a gong show others are efficient and effective. It comes down to how well the province is managing it's system. Just as some provinces are mismanaged and run in to the ground. The same goes for health care.

 

Usually (Not Always) the 2 go hand in hand. Oh and by the way Sasks healthcare system has gone to the dogs since the Right leaning Sask party took power, It has been in a downward spiral ever since.

 

See that is the one down fall of our system that is not very tightly regulated at the federal level it can be subject to the whims of the ruling provincial party. And some of the right leaning political parties purposely drive the system in to the ground and then claim it does not work and then push for higher levels of privatization. Nothing on this planet will work if it is purposely mismanaged.

 

No essential service or utility that has been privatized has ever ended up being cheaper for the end user over the long run with out exception. Funny people forget this when essential services or utilities are privatized

 

Any province that has horrible health care is directly due to the clown's the populace of the province put in power.

The tools and regulations are in place at the federal level to have an efficient and cost effective single user pay healthcare in any province in Canada. IF a province has crappy health care it is the fault of that province and not the fault of system it's self.

 

 

Matthew

"Evena blind squirrel finds a nut once-in-a-while"....hope you feel better!

[macattak1]

question Sprinter...whom exactly PAYS FOR THEM NOW?

 

??? We should not be paying for them now should we? Should they be added to the new system? Our country is not as rich as it once was. It was rich because people used to take care of themselves and their families. Not so anymore.

 

90% of the people my wife sees post surgery go to a nursing home. 50+% of those have family that could take care of them. My wife asks them where they are going to go post surgery. 1/2 have not even thought about it and the other 1/2 are going on tax payer expense into nursing homes.

 

"What about your kids or family?" My wife asks.

"Oh, we have 4 kids and they are wonderful."

"Will they help you and visit you at home or can you stay with them?"

"Oh no! They are too busy and I don't want to be an imposition to them."

 

Fix the real problem. Don't make another. Require families to pick up the slack for 'Loved' ones. Fix Medicare so that people do not have to stay in a hospital for 3 nights minimum in order to get to go to a nursing home if they really need it. But there will be no fixes. Just a Chrysler and GM could have seen their problems coming a decade or Two ago. The US is fixing nothing. Just "new" ways of doing things with more tax payer money.

 

Peace and Blessings

[napfirst]

No! I just get the feeling that the Canadian system has a "Fix" switch. They must because SUV is always talking about how they "Fixed" this problem, that problem, this issue before it became a problem, etc. It's a magical, the Canadian Health care system is.

 

I just wonder. That "Fix" switch works so well for 30 million. But I don't know if it will work in the US. I mean, our SS is already near bankrupt because they keep flipping the "Take Money" switch to fund the military and such.

 

Medicare is already broken so badly, but they are going to cut that to move money over to Universal...

 

The states are cutting Medicaid faster then CA debt interest rises.

 

We have 100k+ bridges in the country that are expired and dangerous. Scratch that. Deadly!

 

Then there are 104 nuclear power plants in the US. We should be building more, but instead we are watching them decommission more and more of them.

 

Where are those "Fix" switches???

 

Peace and Blessings

Along with that "fix" switch is obviously a "money" switch........obama ask and thinks he should get it....then has the nerve to say "it's not about me".......if it's not, why would he GIVE coverage to 12 million illegals if not to garner their eventual votes?........well I think the American people have finally had enough of this moron in his short 6 months and are now asking the hard questions....like how will we pay for this and why do I have to pay for someone who's not even a citizen?......thus his poll numbers are starting to drop.......

[macattak1]

( Quote )Anti-immigration activists say the availability of low-cost benefits, including health insurance and in-state tuition, will only lure more immigrants to come to the United States.

 

LOVE IT!....sure happened in Canada, england, Aussie, NewZealand...hell we cant keep em out.....

 

Um. You cant get into those countries. If you are obese you can not enter NZ. Try going to Canada from the US for the summer or longer. Only if you have a job or can Prove you have money and will not be a burden. Same with all the rest.

 

Now. Just come across the border to the US and we have no restrictions. I.e. my friend's homeless drug addict brother who has been here for 30 years illegally was just arrested AGAIN. He is not a citizen. But does the US deport? No. Would Canada, England, Aussie, NZ? ABSOLUTELY.

 

You need a way better example because that one has no logic or factual truth to it.

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

People here (on the right) always claim that it's too easy to get in. They say we should be more like you, so now I'm not sure who's telling the truth.

[Deanh]

Um. You cant get into those countries. If you are obese you can not enter NZ. Try going to Canada from the US for the summer or longer. Only if you have a job or can Prove you have money and will not be a burden. Same with all the rest.

 

Now. Just come across the border to the US and we have no restrictions. I.e. my friend's homeless drug addict brother who has been here for 30 years illegally was just arrested AGAIN. He is not a citizen. But does the US deport? No. Would Canada, England, Aussie, NZ? ABSOLUTELY.

 

You need a way better example because that one has no logic or factual truth to it.

 

Peace and Blessings

sad to say this segment is where a majority of the un-insured reside....never heard about obesity causing someone to be turned away from Aotearoa, news to me...but somewhere someone has a sign up pleading "Their" rights and discrimination...ahem. You can get into NZ...BUT there are requiremnets, you must show you are self sustaining and can support yourself without EVER being a burden ion society. US DOES deport....I have been a witness SEVERAL times....my point was the quip from the activists stating that immigrants will flock here if costs lower...what a friggen joke...they are ALREADY HERE REGARDLESS MILKING THE SYSTEMS WEAKNESS"S......they did NOT come here because of impending cheaper medical...after all they get it for FREE now....think a majority of them ARE insured...think again.......

[suv_guy_19]

No! I just get the feeling that the Canadian system has a "Fix" switch.

 

No, it doesn't and it will never work perfectly no do I ever expect it to. The only thing that ensures that it remains viable and workable is the push from the Canadian people. We all have a stake in the system working, and so we all (well, most of us) try to ensure that it's working.

[matthewq4b]

"Evena blind squirrel finds a nut once-in-a-while"....hope you feel better!

 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble NAP but this more the rule than the exception only once did I have a multi hour wait in an ER here and the place was packed to busting. And it was not for any thign really serious just a twisted ankle that i figured I better looked at just be sure i had not broken it. Again on the week end and a Saterday Evening.

 

Get over it NAP for every horror story you hear about the canadian system you will find a hundred about stuff that has happened in the U.S.

 

Plus you know what it costs my employer for basic heal coverage for me ? Nothing. what does it cost me ? Nothing. How much more tax over all do I pay than the average American actually it is less 1% less over all.

 

I have no health preimums no co pay no employer portion to top up nothing.

 

My employer pays for health coverage for me for Dental eye glasses and perscriptions my portion of that to pay ? nothing. My coverage is 100% The only thign I pay for is a dispensing fee at the drug store. averge cost on that $2.50 How much do I lay out when I go to get such items ? Nothing. Giove them my beniifit card and that is it. The only thing that is capped is dental and tha tis capped at $3000 per year per person in my house hold excepting orthadontic (braces etc) which is capped at $7500 life time.

 

 

We actually just beat out a U.S outfit on a bunch of work in the middle east. And after we sat down at the bar with our competitiers for drinks that eve the differance in the bid amount was almost exactly what they cough up in basic health coverage for thier employees.

 

Our single user pay health plan has enabled us to under cut a lot U.S out fits as it is an overhead our company does not have to carry.

 

 

Yup such a horrible set up.

 

Matthew

[macattak1]

Along with that "fix" switch is obviously a "money" switch........obama ask and thinks he should get it....then has the nerve to say "it's not about me".......if it's not, why would he GIVE coverage to 12 million illegals if not to garner their eventual votes?........well I think the American people have finally had enough of this moron in his short 6 months and are now asking the hard questions....like how will we pay for this and why do I have to pay for someone who's not even a citizen?......thus his poll numbers are starting to drop.......

 

And what about that Canadian health care system. No one seems to remember for very long how fast the cost is rising and how slow the revenue is rising. Do not HP and Trq cross at some point? I think most socialized medicine systems have proceeded beyond the Cost < Revenue are are now deep into Cost >>> Revenue. I know Canada, France, and England's have. But those are the only ones I am somewhat up on.

 

Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt. At some point there is little difference.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

sad to say this segment is where a majority of the un-insured reside....never heard about obesity causing someone to be turned away from Aotearoa, news to me...but somewhere someone has a sign up pleading "Their" rights and discrimination...ahem. You can get into NZ...BUT there are requiremnets, you must show you are self sustaining and can support yourself without EVER being a burden ion society. US DOES deport....I have been a witness SEVERAL times....my point was the quip from the activists stating that immigrants will flock here if costs lower...what a friggen joke...they are ALREADY HERE REGARDLESS MILKING THE SYSTEMS WEAKNESS"S......they did NOT come here because of impending cheaper medical...after all they get it for FREE now....think a majority of them ARE insured...think again.......

 

This is just a random link to the Obese woman. Read about it several months ago I believe on WND. I can not vouch for this source. But others are easily found.

 

US does deport. But I wonder how much it does for the population size v/s Canada, England, NZ, etc.??? I mean, we raid whole mfg warehouses and arrest/round up 250 illegals, I'm sorry, Undocumented Workers. But I don't think we deport many of them.

 

Well, since they are already flocking here, I guess it would be more correct to talk about a certain % increase in illegal aliens? And the ones here should be deported. There are too many Good people going through the system and following the rules to get into the US.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

No, it doesn't and it will never work perfectly no do I ever expect it to. The only thing that ensures that it remains viable and workable is the push from the Canadian people. We all have a stake in the system working, and so we all (well, most of us) try to ensure that it's working.

 

Great! But maybe that is the difference between a 30 million pop country and a 300 million pop country?

 

Notice Obama sounds just like Gore? The debate is over, not time to stall, must act now, got to be going by next year, etc, etc, etc,. He wants to discussion, he wants no debate, he wants no one to get in his way. Even thought 50% of the US is against it and his own party's leaders are telling him to slow down. If Bush did that it would play every day, in every way, in every news outlet, etc. But when Obama's own turn against him its a blip.

 

We do not have a working Social Security system. We do not have a working Medicare system. We do not have a working banking system. We do not have a... Why would we want to add a none working US universal health care system to the cluster?

 

All I hear from you is how great your system is. You acknowledge zero about the concerns of our already messed up systems and continue to tell us how great the Canadian Military, Health, and what ever is. I am glad that you are so proud of your country. I enjoy Canada to and am proud to have her as a neighbor! I am also proud of the US. But I am not proud of the above HUGE Critical problems and can not understand why you still think the US engaging in a Cost+ Revenue- system like yours is going to be some amazing thing when compared to the broken systems in place for 50+ years. I do not understand it.

 

You sell and sell and sell, like Obama, and acknowledge nothing more then cursory challenges, like Obama. There is no logic or wisdom in that attitude. Maybe we should fix what is already broken before engaging in one of the most massive cost programs in US history?

[napfirst]

And what about that Canadian health care system. No one seems to remember for very long how fast the cost is rising and how slow the revenue is rising. Do not HP and Trq cross at some point? I think most socialized medicine systems have proceeded beyond the Cost < Revenue are are now deep into Cost >>> Revenue. I know Canada, France, and England's have. But those are the only ones I am somewhat up on.

 

Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt. At some point there is little difference.

 

Peace and Blessings

They love to sing it's praises and I love it when they it doesn't cost then anything......yeah right?.....

[macattak1]

They love to sing it's praises and I love it when they it doesn't cost then anything......yeah right?.....

 

It is getting to the point that in about 6 months one could run for president and win simply on an Anti Obama plank.

 

Peace and Blessings

[suv_guy_19]

I'm not selling anything. I'm defending my system that is being attacked for seemingly no reason since single payer isn't even on the table in the US.

[matthewq4b]

And what about that Canadian health care system. No one seems to remember for very long how fast the cost is rising and how slow the revenue is rising. Do not HP and Trq cross at some point? I think most socialized medicine systems have proceeded beyond the Cost < Revenue are are now deep into Cost >>> Revenue. I know Canada, France, and England's have. But those are the only ones I am somewhat up on.

 

Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt. At some point there is little difference.

 

Peace and Blessings

 

 

 

A nice try on spin but a miss. Revenue was far out stripping the cost of the system. In fact until the global economy tanked we were cutting taxes and still showing surpluses. In fact even now in many provinces we pay less tax on average than Americans do.

 

Our current deficit has nothing to do with the cost of our health care but more to do with a misguided stimulus package and tax cuts that were done before their full impact was realized. If we increased taxes by 50% of what they were cut our deficit would disappear and we still would have an equivalent taxation rate as the U.S.

 

What most Americans fail to understand is our system not that many years ago was second to none but so were costs. The money dumped in to it was not sustainable. The knives were sharpened and the torches lit and the slashing and burning began. Hospitals were closed and services were cut personal laid off etc. Things were cut too fast and way too deep. The system nearly collapsed.

Now we are slowly increasing funding to find a balance between affordable/sustainability and effective levels of care. But this is being done with an eye on cost control and not just by throwing money at it.

 

Something that is a foreign concept to American government, cost control. We do not just toss money at stuff without making sure we are getting value for the dollar.

 

And Americans seem to conveniently forget the their private for profit system costs every man woman and child in the U.S almost TWICE what our single user pay system does. And we do not have too rely on company's that care more about profits than our health and have to bow to their whims in regards to our care.

 

So exactly who is being Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt? From our point of view it sure as the heck is not us.

 

Matthew

[DUCKRACER]

A nice try on spin but a miss. Revenue was far out stripping the cost of the system. In fact until the global economy tanked we were cutting taxes and still showing surpluses. In fact even now in many provinces we pay less tax on average than Americans do.

 

Our current deficit has nothing to do with the cost of our health care but more to do with a misguided stimulus package and tax cuts that were done before their full impact was realized. If we increased taxes by 50% of what they were cut our deficit would disappear and we still would have an equivalent taxation rate as the U.S.

 

What most Americans fail to understand is our system not that many years ago was second to none but so were costs. The money dumped in to it was not sustainable. The knives were sharpened and the torches lit and the slashing and burning began. Hospitals were closed and services were cut personal laid off etc. Things were cut too fast and way too deep. The system nearly collapsed.

Now we are slowly increasing funding to find a balance between affordable/sustainability and effective levels of care. But this is being done with an eye on cost control and not just by throwing money at it.

 

Something that is a foreign concept to American government, cost control. We do not just toss money at stuff without making sure we are getting value for the dollar.

 

And Americans seem to conveniently forget the their private for profit system costs every man woman and child in the U.S almost TWICE what our single user pay system does. And we do not have too rely on company's that care more about profits than our health and have to bow to their whims in regards to our care.

 

So exactly who is being Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt? From our point of view it sure as the heck is not us.

 

Matthew

 

About 10 years ago a family from Canada moved in across the street form me. It turns out that the wife had cancer and the Canadian health care system was making her wait for her cancer therapy that she would die before she got treatment. He got a job with american coverage and she got treatment and is alive today. There are all kinds of stories like this all over.

Edited July 22, 2009 by DUCKRACER

[suv_guy_19]

Tons of them I'm sure. I can make up stories too.

[napfirst]

A nice try on spin but a miss. Revenue was far out stripping the cost of the system. In fact until the global economy tanked we were cutting taxes and still showing surpluses. In fact even now in many provinces we pay less tax on average than Americans do.

 

Our current deficit has nothing to do with the cost of our health care but more to do with a misguided stimulus package and tax cuts that were done before their full impact was realized. If we increased taxes by 50% of what they were cut our deficit would disappear and we still would have an equivalent taxation rate as the U.S.

 

What most Americans fail to understand is our system not that many years ago was second to none but so were costs. The money dumped in to it was not sustainable. The knives were sharpened and the torches lit and the slashing and burning began. Hospitals were closed and services were cut personal laid off etc. Things were cut too fast and way too deep. The system nearly collapsed.

Now we are slowly increasing funding to find a balance between affordable/sustainability and effective levels of care. But this is being done with an eye on cost control and not just by throwing money at it.

 

Something that is a foreign concept to American government, cost control. We do not just toss money at stuff without making sure we are getting value for the dollar.

 

And Americans seem to conveniently forget the their private for profit system costs every man woman and child in the U.S almost TWICE what our single user pay system does. And we do not have too rely on company's that care more about profits than our health and have to bow to their whims in regards to our care.

 

So exactly who is being Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt? From our point of view it sure as the heck is not us.

 

Matthew

I'm sure the system is just swimming in money and I guess that's why there are stories like this:

 

 

Curing Canada's doctor shortage

 

 

It's clear we have a problem. The country has approximately 15,000 too few doctors, a figure roughly double the total number of students in all years of study at our 17 medical schools combined. At a doctor-patient ratio of just 2.3 per 1,000 population, we are 24th on the list of 28 industrialized countries. Approximately 1.5 million Canadians cannot find a family physician as a result.

 

PS: This is from a Candian newspaper

[suv_guy_19]

I don't know if you realize, but the US doctor situation isn't much better. Also, it really depends on which news paper that comes from. That number is probably an improvement on the past, but certain newspapers would be loath to point that out. The truth is though, many province still do have a doctor shortage and they need to address it. It is especially difficult for Canada to keep doctors because of the draw of money in the US. It's the same reason that our system costs more than the systems in Europe. We have to pay more to keep people. Also during the massive budget cutting period of the 90s, thousands of doctors were fired. Since then we seem to have learned fiscal restraint (I hope). I doubt any huge cuts will be necessary for a long time.

 

Oh, and one thing I should point out. Part of that 1.5 million is said to come from the fact that people haven't even looked for a doctor, and even if people don't have a doctor, it doesn't stop them from getting the same care as everyone else.

Edited July 22, 2009 by suv_guy_19

[napfirst]

There's more:

 

It turns out that Canadian emergency care is no better than their cancer care. Check out this story from the CBC:

Man dead 'for some time' in Winnipeg ER before staff alerted: officials

 

 

Health officials say a man who died in the waiting area of a major Winnipeg hospital's emergency department may have been dead "for some time" before medical staff was alerted – 34 hours after he arrived.

 

What sources do you accept?...just the ones that you agree with?......how's that working for ya?

[macattak1]

A nice try on spin but a miss. Revenue was far out stripping the cost of the system. In fact until the global economy tanked we were cutting taxes and still showing surpluses. In fact even now in many provinces we pay less tax on average than Americans do.

 

Our current deficit has nothing to do with the cost of our health care but more to do with a misguided stimulus package and tax cuts that were done before their full impact was realized. If we increased taxes by 50% of what they were cut our deficit would disappear and we still would have an equivalent taxation rate as the U.S.

 

What most Americans fail to understand is our system not that many years ago was second to none but so were costs. The money dumped in to it was not sustainable. The knives were sharpened and the torches lit and the slashing and burning began. Hospitals were closed and services were cut personal laid off etc. Things were cut too fast and way too deep. The system nearly collapsed.

Now we are slowly increasing funding to find a balance between affordable/sustainability and effective levels of care. But this is being done with an eye on cost control and not just by throwing money at it.

 

Something that is a foreign concept to American government, cost control. We do not just toss money at stuff without making sure we are getting value for the dollar.

 

And Americans seem to conveniently forget the their private for profit system costs every man woman and child in the U.S almost TWICE what our single user pay system does. And we do not have too rely on company's that care more about profits than our health and have to bow to their whims in regards to our care.

 

So exactly who is being Sold in to slavery, delivered into Debt? From our point of view it sure as the heck is not us.

 

Matthew

 

OK. Good point. I know I was speaking of Quebec. And apparently they run that province worse then California is run? Their Health Costs are in fact rising faster then their Revenue. But as said, their whole system is broken.

 

What is the 2nd or 3rd most successful province in Canada? Lets not work with the best or worst.

 

Here is a chart for Ontario. Looking to see when. But I have no idea of Ontario's success as a province revenue to cost wise. Perhaps it is a horrible source. But one I found simply by searching. I am also not sure how current this is. Can not find a date. I hate it when web sites do not post a date on their articles or slides, etc.

 

Here is some of their site.

 

A Few FACTS, not fiction

 

FACT: The U.S. health care system serves the most diverse population of any country in the world. Our statistics are affected by that diversity. Black women, for a variety of reasons, are more prone to underweight babies than are Caucasian and Asian women. Consistent genetic lineage also contributes to Sweden having a lower infant mortality rate and Japan having a longer life expectancy. These factors must be taken into account when comparing statistics around the world with U.S. statistics.

 

FACT: There is a direct correlation between two parent, marriage-based families and lower infant mortality rates. We need to do everything we can do to support and maintain traditional marriages.

 

FACT: Not every country defines “life birth” as strictly as we do. Here, it means any sign of life in the umbilical cord, any brain activity, or any muscle movement. If the baby shows any of these signs of life, and then dies, it counts against our infant mortality statistics.

 

FACT: The true number of chronically uninsured Americans is 3-5 percent of the population, not 15 or 16 percent.

 

FACT: Seventy-five percent of the uninsured are uninsured for less than a year. Uninsurance is temporary.

 

FACT: The largest group of uninsured U.S. residents is made up of temporary/seasonal workers, mostly of Hispanic/Latino origin, who are born in a foreign country.

 

FACT: U.S. and state taxpayers spent more than $500 billion in 2006, paying for health care services for low-income and uninsured residents.

 

FACT: Mandatory insurance laws always fail. Some 25 percent of Californians fail to buy auto insurance, even though the law says they must, and about 20 percent are without health insurance, though it is a voluntary purchase. In Minnesota, in 2003 some 17 percent of auto owners were uninsured, but only seven percent of Minnesotans were without health insurance. Hawaii has had mandatory health insurance for three decades, but more than 10 percent of its population is without health insurance.

 

FACT: In the United States, we do spend more than any other country in the world on health care. We also spend more than any other country in the world on houses, cars, food, TVs, telephones, designer clothes, and a whole host of consumer products. We spend because we can, and after we spend on necessities, we have more left over to spend on health care than any other country in the world.

 

The question is not if we can spend money on health care, or even how much we spend, it is on how we spend it. We can be more efficient. We can get more value for our health care dollar, and we ought to do. But it will never happen if politicians design a federal or state program to do it.

 

In 1960, 48 percent of health care expenses were paid out-of-pocket by individuals, and the balance came from insurance and government programs.

 

The federal government decided to drive down the 22 percent uninsured rate to zero by creating two massive programs. In 1965, Congress created Medicare to pay for health care for those who are 65 or older; and they created Medicaid to purchase health care for those considered to be low-income. Immediately thereafter, health care spending spiked higher, at double-digit rates.

 

In 1965, Congress predicted that by 1990, Medicare spending would spike to $9 billion a year. Instead, Medicare spent $57 billion in 1990, and more than $408 billion in 2006. This is what happens when health care is “free,” or “nearly free” to those who use its services.

 

By trying to solve the health care crisis of the 1960s, Congress created the health care crisis of the 1970s, so it created Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs). It made the crisis worse, as spending continued its rapid growth, and HMO and insurance premiums began to follow.

 

During the 1980s, Congress again stepped in to "solve" the health care crisis. The uninsured rate now became trumpeted as a measuring stick, as it had risen to something north of 40 million residents, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. In 1959, “The New York Times” asserted that the uninsured numbers 52 million, and almost 22 percent of the population. Yet 1980s politicians had found a new national crisis in these far better numbers (if they were, indeed, even true). The politicians opted for restructuring hospital billing, and creating yet a new concept: managed care.

 

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So, you are saying that taxes in Canada are now Less then in the US? And if raised only by 50% of the cut, you would be equal to the US? Are you talking taxes in general? I always thought that Canada paid significantly more taxes per $ earned then in the US. Now you are paying significantly Less then us? Please clear this misunderstanding up for me. Thanks.

 

How did you enjoy the severely broken system some years ago that you endured? How long was it? Do you want to go through it again? How much easier is it for 30 million people to fix it then say 300 million? Which one would you rather work to fix with the aim of actual success, not an aim of just being involved or the 'challenge' of it?

 

Exactly!!! Cost control. Again, you say we are horrible at it. If you lived here would you want Universal Coverage implemented with your understanding and if you were a citizen?

 

It is a profit industry. And if you read the above in Blue it was doing quite well, till we tried to ensure everyone was covered, when in fact, most every one was covered, and if not, not for very long. Just like employment. We don't force employment and some are unemployed for Years. But most find jobs quickly if they really want to.

 

When charities, local governments, counties and the state were responsible for their own people it meant Families were also involved and responsible. Now the Feds are responsible. Now Costs skyrocket due to the Feds own policies and simply because of their meddling and creation of industries. Before it was all local and much better run and maintained. And if you has lousy care in one state you could conceivably move to find better care.

 

So, it may not be slavery for 30 million and believe me, I am happy for you!!! But it will be, in conjunction with Cap and Trade, Global Warming, etc for us.

 

I always thought Canadians made less and paid more taxes. Else I might have moved there.

 

Peace and Blessings

[macattak1]

Tons of them I'm sure. I can make up stories too.

 

Getting to be like STP with the senseless and undermining attacks that provide no value.

 

How about you tell us how your Canadian system is. And as you say, defend it, when we do not represent it properly.

 

However, Please don't disregard our knowledge and experience and give us when we talk about what happens HERE in the US.

 

You want stories about Canadians coming to the US? Come to my town and you can frequently see them coming from Canada, England, France, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Australia, etc. All here from their own country to pay for services in cash. How many people from the USA show up in Canada or else where to pay cash for health services? Very very few.

[Deanh]

Getting to be like STP with the senseless and undermining attacks that provide no value.

 

How about you tell us how your Canadian system is. And as you say, defend it, when we do not represent it properly.

 

However, Please don't disregard our knowledge and experience and give us when we talk about what happens HERE in the US.

 

You want stories about Canadians coming to the US? Come to my town and you can frequently see them coming from Canada, England, France, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Australia, etc. All here from their own country to pay for services in cash. How many people from the USA show up in Canada or else where to pay cash for health services? Very very few.

maybe because one has to be a Canadian citizen to utilize free treatment?????....just a guess.....otherwize Canada would be inundated with people UNABLE to afford major health issues in the US........