Medium Duty

[7Mary3]

I have doubts that Ford is going to permanently end diesel support for the E-series--or, if you prefer, for their heavy duty van chassis regardless of nomenclature. I'd waive that as a long term argument.

 

And again, what's the difference in chassis cost for a Hino vs. an E450? If you end up coming down to turning radius & irresponsible 20 year olds, I don't know but you might have a hard time justifying the higher cost.

 

You do the whole lifecycle cost Hino LCF vs. E-450 cutaway and I think you will see the Hino beats the Ford. The Hino will beat the Ford in fuel economy diesel vs. diesel and the resale is much better.

 

Don't know about Ford dropping diesel E series either. I have heard rumors that something may be in the works

Edited October 2, 2009 by 7Mary3

[fordmantpw]

You do the whole lifecycle cost Hino LCF vs. E-450 cutaway and I think you will see the Hino beats the Ford. The Hino will beat the Ford in fuel economy diesel vs. diesel and the resale is much better.

 

Don't know about Ford dropping diesel E series either. I have heard rumors that something may be in the works

 

4.4L maybe???

[Joe771476]

As reported in Heavy Duty Trucking: YTD sales: Hino Class 6 - 1288; class 7- 440. Ford Class 6 -1375; Class 7 - 1805. Some bad news: In HDT magazine the best ad Ford can come up with is two pages of green and the suffix -er. Some good news: I saw a listing in TBG magazine for a 2010 F750 oiler truck. Also, why don't Nissan UD (class 6 & 7 total 330 units YTD) and Mitsubishi (YTD total 177 both classes) just call it quits? Crimson Fire Apparatus is offering a FRAC (First Response All Calls) vehicle on an F750 chassis. It's a Pumper/Rescue truck. And don't tell me Ford couldn't have kept making Mediums at KTP.

[Bob Rosadini]

As reported in Heavy Duty Trucking: YTD sales: Hino Class 6 - 1288; class 7- 440. Ford Class 6 -1375; Class 7 - 1805. Some bad news: In HDT magazine the best ad Ford can come up with is two pages of green and the suffix -er. Some good news: I saw a listing in TBG magazine for a 2010 F750 oiler truck. Also, why don't Nissan UD (class 6 & 7 total 330 units YTD) and Mitsubishi (YTD total 177 both classes) just call it quits? Crimson Fire Apparatus is offering a FRAC (First Response All Calls) vehicle on an F750 chassis. It's a Pumper/Rescue truck. And don't tell me Ford couldn't have kept making Mediums at KTP.

Joe- Those ...."er" ads get my blood boiling- Those are Ford Fleet ads. The ones with a bunch of Super Duties or a bunch of 650/750's are Ford Commercial Truck ads. I though Mulaly was going to clean house with all this duplicated marketing crap but I guess they haven't caught up with that yet.

 

FRAC- never heard of those- but it makes sense- in particular for traffic incidents.

[7Mary3]

Medium duty sales are so bad across the board I expect that International and Freightliner will be the only domestic producers soon. Hino and Isuzu may stay in the U.S. market only because their world wide sales are strong enough to allow them to be profitable in the U.S. at a low sales volume. I heard something interesting the other day that GM's medium duty assembly line in Flint MI. has been 'mothballed' intact. That's very strange, usually assembly lines are disassembled right after the last vehicle is produced.

[Bob Rosadini]

Medium duty sales are so bad across the board I expect that International and Freightliner will be the only domestic producers soon. Hino and Isuzu may stay in the U.S. market only because their world wide sales are strong enough to allow them to be profitable in the U.S. at a low sales volume. I heard something interesting the other day that GM's medium duty assembly line in Flint MI. has been 'mothballed' intact. That's very strange, usually assembly lines are disassembled right after the last vehicle is produced.

Hopefully decisions are not based on what the economy is doing today. Things will change, and when they dohopefully Ford will be a player. As I've said many times, how does Toyota have the conviction to ramp up Hino to the degree they do. Saw a new Brinks piggy bank the other day- Hino!

 

By the way, you mention that you think International and F'liner will be the only two players left- I guess that should cancel your thought that the "mothballing" of Flint is perhaps indicative that they will be back?

 

I hope not- at least not with my tax dollars.

[Joe771476]

Garda Armored Car Service is using new F750s.

[7Mary3]

Hopefully decisions are not based on what the economy is doing today. Things will change, and when they dohopefully Ford will be a player. As I've said many times, how does Toyota have the conviction to ramp up Hino to the degree they do. Saw a new Brinks piggy bank the other day- Hino!

 

By the way, you mention that you think International and F'liner will be the only two players left- I guess that should cancel your thought that the "mothballing" of Flint is perhaps indicative that they will be back?

 

I hope not- at least not with my tax dollars.

 

No, I don't think GM will be back in the medium duty business. I think that line will eventually be bought by Isuzu.

Edited October 24, 2009 by 7Mary3

[Bob Rosadini]

No, I don't think GM will be back in the medium duty business. I think that line will eventually be bought by Isuzu.

&M- you might be right on that as they did it once before- but does it make sense for GM to be building cabs for someone else.- Unless Isuzu goes the Hino route and builds their own on a GM chassis- but Isuzu sells what- 40 trucks a month????

[Bob Rosadini]

Garda Armored Car Service is using new F750s.

Joe- Local Connecticut outfit?

[Joe771476]

Not sure Bob, but check this out:

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/americas-hardest-working-trucks

Edited October 26, 2009 by Joe771476

[Bob Rosadini]

Not sure Bob, but check this out:

http://autos.aol.com/gallery/americas-hardest-working-trucks

UPS uses Dodge chassis??? wonder if that is not a typ.

[7Mary3]

UPS uses Dodge chassis??? wonder if that is not a typ.

 

Must be referring to the Sprinter. Dodge has not built any stripped chassis since the early 1980's.

[Joe771476]

Weren't the early day UPS trucks on Ford P-chassis? The "P" stood for parcel and tons of bread trucks etc. were built on those.

[7Mary3]

Weren't the early day UPS trucks on Ford P-chassis? The "P" stood for parcel and tons of bread trucks etc. were built on those.

 

Yes, a number of package cars were built on P-600 chassis through the 1960's. The majority here on the west coast were built on GMC P6T chassis, most with 292 6 cylinders, the later versions with 4.3L V-6's or that odd Cummins/Onan diesel. UPS was buying so many of those chassis that GMC continued to supply them to UPS after the P6T was dropped as a regular model. I was working for a company that was doing lot of CNG conversions back in the early 90's, and we got a contract to repower a bunch of the Cummins/Onan package cars with CNG fueled turbocharged 4.3L V-6's.

[Joe771476]

Speaking of natural gas, do I remember seeing F-series mediums hauling propane AND using it to supply the engine? Who owns that technology? Daimler?

[7Mary3]

Speaking of natural gas, do I remember seeing F-series mediums hauling propane AND using it to supply the engine? Who owns that technology? Daimler?

 

Used to be a company called IMPCO, they made a conversion kit for gasoline engines. They are still around under a different name. Used to see 429 Fords and 427 Chevys set up like that. Those propane guys were pretty upset when the gas medium duty's went away.

[Bob Rosadini]

Used to be a company called IMPCO, they made a conversion kit for gasoline engines. They are still around under a different name. Used to see 429 Fords and 427 Chevys set up like that. Those propane guys were pretty upset when the gas medium duty's went away.

I do beleive the 429 propane was a factory option- and yes I forgot about the Sprinter- I was thinking package car

[7Mary3]

I do beleive the 429 propane was a factory option- and yes I forgot about the Sprinter- I was thinking package car

 

Yes, you ordered the truck from Ford with the propane fuel option, and the vehicle went to the upfitter after it was built for conversion, then it was delivered to the dealer. There was also a CNG option for a couple of years too.

[Bob Rosadini]

Well Joe76, I get your point- October HDT arrives in the mail yesterday and I see the pitiful sales stats. Hino outsold Ford in August in class 6 and almost is ahead YTD. And yes on the next two pages an "-er" ad from Ford Fleet-- In HEAVY DUTY TRUCKING. Makes sense huh?

 

To ad insult to injury, also in the mail yesterday was the new FE (Fleet Equipment). On the cover, a new Hino set up with a recycler body- walk in door etc. This was obviously a marketing job by Hino to get magazine cover space. A small article in the mag announced changes for 2011 and also stated they were now number three in class 6 and their combined 6 and 7 was 10%.

 

7M3- it looks like your prediction of Ford's demise in this segment grows stronger month by month.

[7Mary3]

Well Joe76, I get your point- October HDT arrives in the mail yesterday and I see the pitiful sales stats. Hino outsold Ford in August in class 6 and almost is ahead YTD. And yes on the next two pages an "-er" ad from Ford Fleet-- In HEAVY DUTY TRUCKING. Makes sense huh?

 

To ad insult to injury, also in the mail yesterday was the new FE (Fleet Equipment). On the cover, a new Hino set up with a recycler body- walk in door etc. This was obviously a marketing job by Hino to get magazine cover space. A small article in the mag announced changes for 2011 and also stated they were now number three in class 6 and their combined 6 and 7 was 10%.

 

7M3- it looks like your prediction of Ford's demise in this segment grows stronger month by month.

 

Yes, I get 'Fleet Equipment' and saw that cover too. Interesting that Hino seems to be concentraiting on class 6 and 7, while the other Asian manufacturers are mostly after class 4 and 5. I think Mitsubishi Fuso was going to pull out of class 6 and 7 next year. I talked to an Isuzu salesman Monday and he said Isuzu will stay in class 6 and 7.

[Bob Rosadini]

Yes, I get 'Fleet Equipment' and saw that cover too. Interesting that Hino seems to be concentraiting on class 6 and 7, while the other Asian manufacturers are mostly after class 4 and 5. I think Mitsubishi Fuso was going to pull out of class 6 and 7 next year. I talked to an Isuzu salesman Monday and he said Isuzu will stay in class 6 and 7.

I can't imasgine how they can afford to- talk about "scale" or lack of it.

[Bob Rosadini]

Had a conversation today with the truck sales mgr at one of the bigger Boston area Commercial truck stores. He was emphatic that they are in for the long haul. Implied there were changes coming for sure, and that we would see almost two versions of 650/750- one for the yupsters to pull their horse trailers and ski boats and another down and dirty for the true commercial market. I asked if they were coming back to KTP and he gave a flat out no. Also said that he had been to two sales meetig in last two onths attended by heavy hitters and there is no doubt they are going to build the business. Also implied that Ford's position at Bluediamond is much bigger than we have been lead to believe.

[7Mary3]

Had a conversation today with the truck sales mgr at one of the bigger Boston area Commercial truck stores. He was emphatic that they are in for the long haul. Implied there were changes coming for sure, and that we would see almost two versions of 650/750- one for the yupsters to pull their horse trailers and ski boats and another down and dirty for the true commercial market. I asked if they were coming back to KTP and he gave a flat out no. Also said that he had been to two sales meetig in last two onths attended by heavy hitters and there is no doubt they are going to build the business. Also implied that Ford's position at Bluediamond is much bigger than we have been lead to believe.

 

Very interesting! However, I recently read Navistar's latest 8k filing, and Blue Diamond was mentioned. They clearly stated that they hold 75% of the vehicle manufacturing operation, and 74% of the replacement parts operation. Navistar also said that they will be entitiled to a like percentage of profits (if any) generated by Blue Diamond. I can't imagine what Ford's position in Blue Diamond is beyond holding a minority interest in the joint venture, but at this point who knows. In other news (don't laugh) Fiat is saying they will not only develop the 'Ram Truck' brand for a stronger position in commercial markets, but is also seriously considering extending the line into class 8 over-the-road! I think it is pretty obvious that means distributing Iveco trucks in North America. Iveco is highly regarded in Europe, but does not have much of a presence in the rest of the world. Just think, the first class 8 Dodge since 1975! I'll believe it when I see it..........

[Joe771476]

The Sci-Fi (now called SyFy) channel is showing the old 1983 TV series "V" and the lead character in the made for TV mini-series commandeers an L-series tractor with the F O R D name boldly emblazened above the grille and smashes through a series of gates! Ah, the good ole days!