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Catastrophic Engine Failure on 2006 Escape Hybrid


dlucarelli

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I'll start by saying I'm not blaming this guy for his engine. Could it be his fault? I don't know.

 

I will say that starting multiple threads crying to Ford for:

 

A VEHICLE THAT IS SIGNIFIGANTLY OUT OF WARRANTY

 

Bottom line. I've had my TV for two years, and I just had to pay $300 for two $5 capacitors, and 20 minutes worth of work.

 

Did it suck? You bet.

 

Am I out of warranty? Yup.

 

Am I crying on a Samsung forum all day? Nope.

 

The way you are coming across as saying: "Gee, my family almost died, but if it was covered that would be ok!"

 

You've obviously already skewed things to see them as you want, so why stop there?

 

 

 

Pretty sure Ford's sales are up this month, and Toyota's are down. Me telling him he's out of warranty wasn't responsible for that, either.

 

Honda is currently putting off a recall on their small SUV that causes the tranny to miss shifts and not accelerate:

 

Honda POS

 

So there's Honda's customer service in action, hero.

Can you condense all that if your trying to make a point?

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Severe knocking can burn a hole in a piston but it isn't going to effect a connecting rod bearing and only one of them.

 

Since three of the four connecting rod were in perfect condition, it seems to me that it was a fits/tolerance issue with the connecting rod, bearing or crank journal.

 

I've burned a hole in a piston on a 750 Triumph motorcycle because one the cylinders ran lean. Ethanol causes an engine to run rich not lean. The knocking I've heard in my '05 FEH at 50,000 miles was not pinging of the valves, it was explosions in the cylinders before the pistons were at TDC. If the computer was retarding the timing to hold RPM from going higher the stress on the rod bearings could cause one to fail. I don't know if your aware that the FEH PCM has a warm-up strategy for emissions that retards the timing to heat up the CAT also. During this strategy the electric motors are strictly used to power the vehicle and the engine is held at a idle. You can over ride the warm-up strategy by demanding higher acceleration but this will advance the timing and delay the warm-up strategy.

 

I didn't have the loss of power and poor mileage with straight gas. There was no need to max out RPM until Florida mandated E10. Weather it's the high RPM limiter or the combination of the poor fuel quality (E10) I can't say, but that kind of engine knock caused severe stress on the bearings. I've blown race engines, spun engine bearings and bent three forged steel rods after blowing a water seal in the head of a 427 medium riser. I've also played with engine clearances and if that was an issue the guys rod bearing would have let go long before 65,000 miles.

 

The crank, the rod or the bearing could have had a small defect and this could have resulted in why it was the first to go. It could also have been a rod or piston out of balance that took so long for that bearing to go bad first. All I know is ethanol as really effected the performance of my '05 FEH. Our '09 FEH's are not nearly effected by E10 and I think that was because Ford changed to a better heated oxygen sensor.

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I've burned a hole in a piston on a 750 Triumph motorcycle because one the cylinders ran lean. Ethanol causes an engine to run rich not lean. The knocking I've heard in my '05 FEH at 50,000 miles was not pinging of the valves, it was explosions in the cylinders before the pistons were at TDC. If the computer was retarding the timing to hold RPM from going higher the stress on the rod bearings could cause one to fail. I don't know if your aware that the FEH PCM has a warm-up strategy for emissions that retards the timing to heat up the CAT also. During this strategy the electric motors are strictly used to power the vehicle and the engine is held at a idle. You can over ride the warm-up strategy by demanding higher acceleration but this will advance the timing and delay the warm-up strategy.

 

I didn't have the loss of power and poor mileage with straight gas. There was no need to max out RPM until Florida mandated E10. Weather it's the high RPM limiter or the combination of the poor fuel quality (E10) I can't say, but that kind of engine knock caused severe stress on the bearings. I've blown race engines, spun engine bearings and bent three forged steel rods after blowing a water seal in the head of a 427 medium riser. I've also played with engine clearances and if that was an issue the guys rod bearing would have let go long before 65,000 miles.

 

The crank, the rod or the bearing could have had a small defect and this could have resulted in why it was the first to go. It could also have been a rod or piston out of balance that took so long for that bearing to go bad first. All I know is ethanol as really effected the performance of my '05 FEH. Our '09 FEH's are not nearly effected by E10 and I think that was because Ford changed to a better heated oxygen sensor.

Yes, going lean can blow more than just a piston, might take the whole engine out!

 

Your mindset on blaming E10 but I find it very odd that only one bearing was completly gone and the others are in perfect shape. Something has to be different with that one connecting rod, bearing and crank, it's just logical.

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Something?? It's not a "part" of the engine, it's the whole engine!

 

Dude...a whole engine does not blow...its a generic term...individual parts fail and are replaced. Whole engines are only replaced when the cost of the individual parts and labor exceeds the cost of a comparable replacement. Even if a block cracks, parts can be removed and used in the replacement.

 

The only way you are going to find out why the bearing let go is to have a materials engineer do a failure analysis on the type of "breaks" on the fragments. Anything else is speculation. Too much damage spread over to much area.

 

So far I have seen the OP post:

 

- My FEH engine blew out of warranty. Its Ford's fault not mine...fix it for free.

- My wheel bearing went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free.

- My 4x4 actuator went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free.

- My window motor went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free. Sounds like they have you pegged.

- My Toyota truck was God.

 

After the free repairs stopped I would say you figured you were done with GM and tried Ford. I can't blame you, shit happens. I would have tried to get a little something out of Ford too. But when they are not obligated to give you anything instead of sucking it up, you decide to wage war with Ford on the Internet. Oh boy!!!!!!

 

Had Ford replaced your engine free of charge, would you be singing their praises online?? The answer to that is NO.

Edited by atomaro
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Dude...a whole engine does not blow...its a generic term...individual parts fail and are replaced. Whole engines are only replaced when the cost of the individual parts and labor exceeds the cost of a comparable replacement. Even if a block cracks, parts can be removed and used in the replacement. You're getting in over your head.

 

So far I have seen the OP post:

 

- My FEH engine blew out of warranty. Its Ford's fault not mine...fix it for free. No mention of the diagnosis

- My wheel bearing went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free.

- My 4x4 actuator went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free.

- My window motor went in my GM out of warranty. Its GM's fault not mine...fix it for free. Sounds like they have you pegged.

- My Toyota truck was God.

 

After the free repairs stopped I would say you figured you were done with GM and tried Ford. I can't blame you, I would have tried to get a little something out of Ford too. But when they are not obligated to give you anything instead of sucking it up, you decide to wage war with Ford on the Internet. Oh boy!!!!!!

 

Had Ford replaced your engine free of charge, would you be singing their praises online?? The answer to that is NO.

I used the term "blown" instead of "Catastrphic Engine Failure". Wow, just for a bearing and a connecting rod!! It was the dealer that stated that the engine needed replacing.

 

What happens to the old engine if the owner doesn't want it? Somebody will rebuild it. Frankly, I don't see why the dealer doesn't repair the engine like in the old days! It's cheaper too. If machinery wasn't repaired but replaced, I wouldn't have had a job at Ford and vehicle prices would be a sky high.

 

You have anything wrong with the rearend on a 4WD FE/FEH other than oil seals, it's replaced. Have a problem with the electric power steering motor, torque sensor or module, the whole steering wheel assembly is replaced. The same goes for the transmissions too!

 

Service manual are a lot smaller these days because of this. Does this drive up the cost of repairs? You bet!

 

Any of your repairs cost you $6,500?

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I used the term "blown" instead of "Catastrphic Engine Failure". Wow, just for a bearing and a connecting rod!! It was the dealer that stated that the engine needed replacing.

 

What happens to the old engine if the owner doesn't want it? Somebody will rebuild it. Frankly, I don't see why the dealer doesn't repair the engine like in the old days! It's cheaper too. If machinery wasn't repaired but replaced, I wouldn't have had a job at Ford and vehicle prices would be a sky high.

 

You have anything wrong with the rearend on a 4WD FE/FEH other than oil seals, it's replaced. Have a problem with the electric power steering motor, torque sensor or module, the whole steering wheel assembly is replaced. The same goes for the transmissions too!

 

Service manual are a lot smaller these days because of this. Does this drive up the cost of repairs? You bet!

 

Any of your repairs cost you $6,500?

 

Most repairs the dealers do now are In-Vehicle or long block replacements. Once metal and materials have circulated in the oil system it's up to an engine rebuilding company to determine what parts can be salvaged. If the rod bearing came apart the crank shaft was most likely seriously damaged. Labor cost and the fact that the dealer no longer have the time and space to rebuild engines, the repair manuals stop short in providing rebuild information. In this case, the oil pan must of had to be removed and installed on the new motor for the tech to see the damaged parts. I have had two engines replaced and the old engine can be bought for the core charge ($200 in my case) if you want to keep and rebuild it. It's not worth it in my opinion. Now if it was a 427 medium riser, a 428 cobra Jet or one of those rare high performance engines I'd pay the core charge if it was not more than $200 and sell it on Ebay. I use to find rare big block Ford engines and parts and buy and rebuild myself but those days are all over now.

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Most repairs the dealers do now are In-Vehicle or long block replacements. Once metal and materials have circulated in the oil system it's up to an engine rebuilding company to determine what parts can be salvaged. If the rod bearing came apart the crank shaft was most likely seriously damaged. Labor cost and the fact that the dealer no longer have the time and space to rebuild engines, the repair manuals stop short in providing rebuild information. In this case, the oil pan must of had to be removed and installed on the new motor for the tech to see the damaged parts. I have had two engines replaced and the old engine can be bought for the core charge ($200 in my case) if you want to keep and rebuild it. It's not worth it in my opinion. Now if it was a 427 medium riser, a 428 cobra Jet or one of those rare high performance engines I'd pay the core charge if it was not more than $200 and sell it on Ebay. I use to find rare big block Ford engines and parts and buy and rebuild myself but those days are all over now.

They don't have the time?? They have the time but the policy has changed.

 

Two of the biggest sections in the '09 WorkShop Manual(s) is on the engine and transmission, yet they don't seem to touch either of them.

 

Cleaned many pounds of metal flakes, ball bearings, roller bearings, bronze dust, cast iron dust, broken gear teeth, etc. from many machines in my life. Just part of the job!

 

If engines are like rearends, they are returned to where they were built for salvage or whatever.

 

We had a high speed motors used in grinding that I maintained. They were $20K new but we rebuilt them for $3K, had a special test stand for them as they used HF voltage and air mist lube for their 38K RPMs. This program replaced a previous one on a older machine where they were sent out for repair. They did this to save money but in a dealer's case, they just pass along the cost to the vehicle owner. I don't think it would cost $6500 to rebuild that engine, do you??

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Yeah, must be all that enlarged text and double space too!

 

Maybe if I use simpler, smaller words you can answer to the issue at hand instead of griping about the font...

 

Here:

 

Him break car. Him no have warranty. Him shit out of luck.

Edited by chiefstang
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They don't have the time?? They have the time but the policy has changed.

 

Two of the biggest sections in the '09 WorkShop Manual(s) is on the engine and transmission, yet they don't seem to touch either of them.

 

Cleaned many pounds of metal flakes, ball bearings, roller bearings, bronze dust, cast iron dust, broken gear teeth, etc. from many machines in my life. Just part of the job!

 

If engines are like rearends, they are returned to where they were built for salvage or whatever.

 

We had a high speed motors used in grinding that I maintained. They were $20K new but we rebuilt them for $3K, had a special test stand for them as they used HF voltage and air mist lube for their 38K RPMs. This program replaced a previous one on a older machine where they were sent out for repair. They did this to save money but in a dealer's case, they just pass along the cost to the vehicle owner. I don't think it would cost $6500 to rebuild that engine, do you??

 

Why do you think Fords policy changed? In this case the owner had no choice because of being out of Ford's warranty. Ford did replace my navigator engine with a completely new engine not rebuilt long block. I know this because the intake manifold was not the same as the old one. If you were to order a new engine from Ford you could bet the price to remove the broken one and reinstall all the equipment attached to the old engine on the new engine, the cost would be well over $6,500. Under warranty, Ford would limit the hours paid and of course get the new engine at cost. In this case, the owner has no choice but to get a cheaper rebuilt motor and a certified dealer to replace the engine to maintain the eCVT warranty. The dealer is going to have a hay day charging for the labor as they did. I replaced my dads engine with a rebuilt long block for $1,200 and paid two Ford techs $500 on a Sunday to do the exchange. We got the Lincoln back that night and I returned the core the next day. This was the exception to the rule and there was no warranty from the dealer. Would I have paid $6,500 to have a dealer replace that engine? No way. Would I pay $6,500 to replace my '05 FEH engine? I'm afraid so because it's a loosing situation any way you look at it.

 

If you look at the procedure to reinstall a eCVT and get ANY contamination on the One-Way clutch, it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced according to the manual. For this and other reasons I want Ford behind these kinds of repairs and not just a standard repair shop.

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Maybe if I use simpler, smaller words you can answer to the issue at hand instead of griping about the font...

 

Here:

 

Him break car. Him no have warranty. Him shit out of luck.

That's it?

 

Issue at hand? Your comparing your $310 to his $6500?? Maybe you'd sing a different tune if they said that you need a whole new chassis a for lot more bucks because they don't repair them just replace them.

Edited by wptski
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Why do you think Fords policy changed? In this case the owner had no choice because of being out of Ford's warranty. Ford did replace my navigator engine with a completely new engine not rebuilt long block. I know this because the intake manifold was not the same as the old one. If you were to order a new engine from Ford you could bet the price to remove the broken one and reinstall all the equipment attached to the old engine on the new engine, the cost would be well over $6,500. Under warranty, Ford would limit the hours paid and of course get the new engine at cost. In this case, the owner has no choice but to get a cheaper rebuilt motor and a certified dealer to replace the engine to maintain the eCVT warranty. The dealer is going to have a hay day charging for the labor as they did. I replaced my dads engine with a rebuilt long block for $1,200 and paid two Ford techs $500 on a Sunday to do the exchange. We got the Lincoln back that night and I returned the core the next day. This was the exception to the rule and there was no warranty from the dealer. Would I have paid $6,500 to have a dealer replace that engine? No way. Would I pay $6,500 to replace my '05 FEH engine? I'm afraid so because it's a loosing situation any way you look at it.

 

If you look at the procedure to reinstall a eCVT and get ANY contamination on the One-Way clutch, it cannot be cleaned and must be replaced according to the manual. For this and other reasons I want Ford behind these kinds of repairs and not just a standard repair shop.

By policy, I mean that they replace instead of repair. After being a mechanic for over 35 years, I find that hard to understand as it sure isn't cheaper. We couldn't hide behind things like it's "unserviceable"! That only goes for electronic items and a elctrician will say it's bad but we don't repair it, we send them out.

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I used the term "blown" instead of "Catastrphic Engine Failure". Wow, just for a bearing and a connecting rod!! It was the dealer that stated that the engine needed replacing.

 

What happens to the old engine if the owner doesn't want it? Somebody will rebuild it. Frankly, I don't see why the dealer doesn't repair the engine like in the old days! It's cheaper too. If machinery wasn't repaired but replaced, I wouldn't have had a job at Ford and vehicle prices would be a sky high.

 

You have anything wrong with the rearend on a 4WD FE/FEH other than oil seals, it's replaced. Have a problem with the electric power steering motor, torque sensor or module, the whole steering wheel assembly is replaced. The same goes for the transmissions too!

 

Service manual are a lot smaller these days because of this. Does this drive up the cost of repairs? You bet!

 

Any of your repairs cost you $6,500?

 

 

Wow, where to start...and trying to go slow:

1. The engine gets beither returned for a core refund or scrapped. If returned it gets remanufactured and end up in someone elses vehicle.

2. The dealer will not repair the engine because it will cost both them and the owner too much, they will not make enough $$ on the repair, take too long, don't have the capability to do the machining on site, etc. It boils down to they are out to make as much money in the least amount of time posible. Plus the replacement will have the 12 month/12,000 mile warranty.

3. Service manuals are small because there is less and less work the average user can do on their own without the use of big dollar professional code reader/diagnostic scanner. Those tools are loaded with procedures that used to be in service books...not your cheap chilton or hanes. Plus you have computer systems like Mitchell OnDemand and All Data ServuiceCenter.

4. My repairs cost me plenty. Everytime something on one of my vehicles goes, thats time I have to take away working on a customers car...or worse something that needs to be done on my day off.

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Wow, where to start...and trying to go slow:

1. The engine gets beither returned for a core refund or scrapped. If returned it gets remanufactured and end up in someone elses vehicle.

2. The dealer will not repair the engine because it will cost both them and the owner too much, they will not make enough $$ on the repair, take too long, don't have the capability to do the machining on site, etc. It boils down to they are out to make as much money in the least amount of time posible. Plus the replacement will have the 12 month/12,000 mile warranty.

3. Service manuals are small because there is less and less work the average user can do on their own without the use of big dollar professional code reader/diagnostic scanner. Those tools are loaded with procedures that used to be in service books...not your cheap chilton or hanes. Plus you have computer systems like Mitchell OnDemand and All Data ServuiceCenter.

4. My repairs cost me plenty. Everytime something on one of my vehicles goes, thats time I have to take away working on a customers car...or worse something that needs to be done on my day off.

Your a auto mecahnic? Dealer/Ford? How long?

 

I didn't know that the auto mechanic's trade has taken such a downturn in the way things are done. Less work equals less mechanics! It's been mentioned that a FEH would be forced into a whole new engine to keep the rest of the warranty alive but this might not be the case for a FE.

 

If refering to the same Ford manuals used by dealers. The service manual will refer the Ford tech to what/where in their IDS for a pinpoint test, measurement, etc. The manuals contain more information than needed considering that they don't repair just replace. In fact, the WorkShop Manual is in two volumes and they could cut that down to one. I can't talk about Mitchell but All Data doesn't have '09 listed yet.

 

BTW: Kelly Blue Book price in my zip code using standard option defaults, '06 FWD FEH trade in $11,600, so that repair is 65% of what it's worth on a trade in!

Edited by wptski
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That's it?

 

Issue at hand? Your comparing your $310 to his $6500?? Maybe you'd sing a different tune if they said that you need a whole new chassis a for lot more bucks because they don't repair them just replace them.

 

 

Since when does the amount of the repair effect whether or not you're in warranty coverage? Show me the fine print on any warranty that says that they will extend your coverage as long as it's expensive.

 

You're making it increasingly evident that you really don't know much about what you're saying.

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Since when does the amount of the repair effect whether or not you're in warranty coverage? Show me the fine print on any warranty that says that they will extend your coverage as long as it's expensive.

 

You're making it increasingly evident that you really don't know much about what you're saying.

I understand that the warranty was extended from 30,000 miles to 60,000 miles, so it wasn't that far out of warranty. Nothing in print that states that Ford has to help but I heard of them doing so in the past. This isn't like a alternator going bad out of warranty. That's some major bucks, more than half of the vehicle's trade in value!

 

What's your credentials that makes you a expert??

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I understand that the warranty was extended from 30,000 miles to 60,000 miles, so it wasn't that far out of warranty. Nothing in print that states that Ford has to help but I heard of them doing so in the past. This isn't like a alternator going bad out of warranty. That's some major bucks, more than half of the vehicle's trade in value!

 

What's your credentials that makes you a expert??

 

The original warranty (when the vehicle was purchased) was 36,000 miles. Ford graciously extended the powertrain warranty to 60,000 miles, which they were not required to do. So it was 29,000 miles outside of the original warranty, and 5,000 miles outside of the FREE extended warranty.

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I understand that the warranty was extended from 30,000 miles to 60,000 miles, so it wasn't that far out of warranty. Nothing in print that states that Ford has to help but I heard of them doing so in the past. This isn't like a alternator going bad out of warranty. That's some major bucks, more than half of the vehicle's trade in value!

 

What's your credentials that makes you a expert??

 

 

I guess for starters, I've worked at a Ford dealership for the better part of a decade, but aside from that, I apparently possess the ability to grasp the obvious. Something that escapes you.

 

The warranty is up, an uncovered part broke, and it needs to be paid for. Period. The price of the repair has absolutely nothing to do with the term of the coverage. Period.

 

I'm sorry that it happened, as the Escape is an exceptionally reliable vehicle, but a warranty is coverage for a predetermined amount of time regardless of the cost of the repair. It's kind of shocking that you can't grasp that.

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I guess for starters, I've worked at a Ford dealership for the better part of a decade, but aside from that, I apparently possess the ability to grasp the obvious. Something that escapes you.

 

The warranty is up, an uncovered part broke, and it needs to be paid for. Period. The price of the repair has absolutely nothing to do with the term of the coverage. Period.

 

I'm sorry that it happened, as the Escape is an exceptionally reliable vehicle, but a warranty is coverage for a predetermined amount of time regardless of the cost of the repair. It's kind of shocking that you can't grasp that.

The warranty is up and I do grasp that but is this good press for Ford? Needing to replace a engine at 65.000 miles! The point is this is a special case for Ford should step in.

 

I'm sure glad that Ford's manufacturing plants didn't maintain equipment like they do maintainence on their vehicles at the dealers or I wouldn't have had a job for 35.6 years!

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I understand that the warranty was extended from 30,000 miles to 60,000 miles, so it wasn't that far out of warranty. Nothing in print that states that Ford has to help but I heard of them doing so in the past. This isn't like a alternator going bad out of warranty. That's some major bucks, more than half of the vehicle's trade in value!

 

What's your credentials that makes you a expert??

 

I've had Ford repair a problem well after the 3 years/36,000 mile warranty three times. The rear A/C blend door gear strips every year since '02 and last year at 67,000 miles Ford paid for half the cost to repair. This is a known problem with Ford and the dealerships and it happen again last week. I'm not messing with it this time and will pull the fuse to stop the knocking noise. This will stop the rear A/C from working but if I really need it I'll put the fuse back in and take it out as needed. I had documented repair invoices before the end of my warranty and some of the repairs were covered because the part failed within the 1 year/12,000 mile warranty but other times it was over.

 

In this case with the engine failure I would not have given the dealership permission to install a rebuilt engine before trying to strike a deal with Ford for the cost of a new engine replacement. Ford may or may not play but it would have been worth a try. Ford would not be part of a deal with a rebuilt engine that is dealer installed.

Edited by GaryG
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The warranty is up and I do grasp that but is this good press for Ford? Needing to replace a engine at 65.000 miles! The point is this is a special case for Ford should step in.

 

I'm sure glad that Ford's manufacturing plants didn't maintain equipment like they do maintainence on their vehicles at the dealers or I wouldn't have had a job for 35.6 years!

 

It's not bad press, it's some guy crying on a forum. Raising a stink until you get what you want doesn't qualify as bad press.

 

If I have a '95 Camry with 30,000 miles that blew the motor should it be covered? No. It's out of warranty.

 

Same goes for a Ford with more than 60,000 miles.

 

Bad press is building thousands of these in a faulty manner, not having one person blow the motor. Who's to say how he maintains or drives the truck? Nobody else is having this problem. Just the guy who stopped posting two pages ago when he realized he was out of luck. And warranty.

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It's not bad press, it's some guy crying on a forum. Raising a stink until you get what you want doesn't qualify as bad press.

 

If I have a '95 Camry with 30,000 miles that blew the motor should it be covered? No. It's out of warranty.

 

Same goes for a Ford with more than 60,000 miles.

 

Bad press is building thousands of these in a faulty manner, not having one person blow the motor. Who's to say how he maintains or drives the truck? Nobody else is having this problem. Just the guy who stopped posting two pages ago when he realized he was out of luck. And warranty.

Does Ford have to cover anything after the warranty expires? No, they don't but in "special" cases like this, they should do something for the customer.

 

What exactly is your job at a dealership?

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The warranty is up and I do grasp that but is this good press for Ford?

 

Is it fair press? Or is it blackmail? "I'll just keep posting on every board I find till you capitulate"

 

Needing to replace a engine at 65.000 miles! The point is this is a special case for Ford should step in.

 

Why? Because the squeaking wheel gets the grease? While I think it would be nice if his Ford dealership had stepped up, it's not FoMoCo's responsibility

 

I'm sure glad that Ford's manufacturing plants didn't maintain equipment like they do maintainence on their vehicles at the dealers or I wouldn't have had a job for 35.6 years!

 

Huh? The owner went to Jiffy Lube!

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