Manual-matic Shifting in Automatics

[tomycanuck]

What I can't figure out is why Ford brings out the sexy Fusion V6, but dumps the lamest version of the a 6 speed auto in? We know they have a 6 speed auto with a manual shift mode, Mazda has it.

 

If their not going to put a a third pedal in it, then at least make it a fun to drive auto. Right now there's nothing exciting enough trade up to when the lease of my Focus runs out

 

Do I need to say PRETTY PLEASE!!

 

Edited May 17, 2006 by tomycanuck

[J-150]

manually shifting an auto is for poseurs.

 

You want a stick or not.

 

 

Fusion doesnt offer it ? Oh well. Get a Mazda.

[NickF1011]

Fusion doesnt offer it ? Oh well. Get a Mazda.

 

Exactly what I did. Very pleased with my 5-speed V6. :happy feet:

[Patriotic]

Why not offer more than one transmission choice? Doesn't the fact that the cars are selling in the 300,000+ range justify more variations???

[NickF1011]

Why not offer more than one transmission choice? Doesn't the fact that the cars are selling in the 300,000+ range justify more variations???

 

You would think. Mazda can offer it with manumatic and full manual on much lower volumes. Silly Ford.

[igor]

Why not offer more than one transmission choice? Doesn't the fact that the cars are selling in the 300,000+ range justify more variations???

 

I think it goes by market research... and them not aiming high enough... if you look ford's excude for making side airbags optional on the Fusion was "customers told us they wanted it as an option" ... I am sure Ford also has market research telling them "Customres do not care about manushift"

 

And since they didn;t aim high enough - well thye stuck to what customers wnted.. not reading their dreams... or nottrying to surprise them

 

Overall, however I am sure most Ford buyers to not give a damn... thye also do not care than V6 jas no Stick option... they would never use either anyways

 

Igor

[NickF1011]

I think it goes by market research... and them not aiming high enough... if you look ford's excude for making side airbags optional on the Fusion was "customers told us they wanted it as an option" ... I am sure Ford also has market research telling them "Customres do not care about manushift"

 

And since they didn;t aim high enough - well thye stuck to what customers wnted.. not reading their dreams... or nottrying to surprise them

 

Overall, however I am sure most Ford buyers to not give a damn... thye also do not care than V6 jas no Stick option... they would never use either anyways

 

Igor

 

Well, I think that about sums up Ford's overall problem lately. They are chasing after their traditional core customer base with their products. Problem is, their core customer base keeps shrinking. They need to offer options and equipment that the typical "Ford customer" is not expecting to see in a Ford. Then perhaps they can start getting the attention of NON-Ford customers.

 

Pleasing the home crowd is simple. If Ford wants to survive, they need to start playing well for the "visiting crowd" too.

[NLPRacing]

Well, I think that about sums up Ford's overall problem lately. They are chasing after their traditional core customer base with their products. Problem is, their core customer base keeps shrinking. They need to offer options and equipment that the typical "Ford customer" is not expecting to see in a Ford. Then perhaps they can start getting the attention of NON-Ford customers.

 

Pleasing the home crowd is simple. If Ford wants to survive, they need to start playing well for the "visiting crowd" too.

 

Ford needs to recognize that if the competition has a feature that people like, they need to offer it too. Hell, if Mazda can have a manumatic and a manual on their V6 Mazda6, why can't Ford??!? I've driven my sister's 5 speed manual 4 cylinder Fusion and being able to shift your own gears definitely makes it more fun to drive. In fact, she would have like to have purchased the V6 version, but she really wanted a manual. Her & her husband have been looking into turbo kits from FSWerks.com to make up the HP difference.

 

When Ford sold both a manual & automatic version of the Taurus SHO, they sold a shitload of SHO's. But, when they stopped offering the manual option, the enthusiasts stopped caring about it. There were other issues with the 96 SHO (cams, styling, etc.), but I believe the lack of a manual transmission was the biggest reason it stopped selling so well.

 

Hopefully there will be an ST or SVT version of the Fusion with a manuel & manumatic option, but I hope the standard V6 will also get the same option.

[J-150]

I think it goes by market research... and them not aiming high enough... if you look ford's excude for making side airbags optional on the Fusion was "customers told us they wanted it as an option" ... I am sure Ford also has market research telling them "Customres do not care about manushift"

 

And since they didn;t aim high enough - well thye stuck to what customers wnted.. not reading their dreams... or nottrying to surprise them

 

Overall, however I am sure most Ford buyers to not give a damn... thye also do not care than V6 jas no Stick option... they would never use either anyways

 

Igor

 

 

in a way it makes sense.

think of how ow a price base, I4, manual Fusion is. And still a lot nicer than a loaded Focus.

[bri719]

Well, I think that about sums up Ford's overall problem lately. They are chasing after their traditional core customer base with their products. Problem is, their core customer base keeps shrinking. They need to offer options and equipment that the typical "Ford customer" is not expecting to see in a Ford. Then perhaps they can start getting the attention of NON-Ford customers.

 

Pleasing the home crowd is simple. If Ford wants to survive, they need to start playing well for the "visiting crowd" too.

 

 

 

great post - agree 1000% :happy feet:

 

example: why can't I get a manual 6-speed OR autostick in the Edge for '07? there's NO GOOD REASON, unless they're withholding this for the newly-rumored SVT version

 

anyway I'm glad this thread exists in "Dear Ford". makes the tiny chance it will actually get noticed make me feel better at night.

Edited May 20, 2006 by bri719

[GoatMonkey]

manually shifting an auto is for poseurs.

 

You want a stick or not.

 

Only if it's actually an auto. What we really need is a manual with the electronic shifing like in Ferraris, Lamborghinis and especially Audi's dual clutch system. Upshifts are virtually seemless. It's something like 0.08 seconds to change gears. Think what that will do to your times.

 

Formula One jumped all over it and it has been very successful.

[calypsocoral]

Here's my take on Ford's transmissions.

 

Conventional hydraulic automatics are fine for pickups, SUV's, and people-haulers, seeing as how driver involvement is not exactly high on the list of a customer shopping for such vehicles.

 

But cars are a different story. Cars can't win on seat height. Cars can't win on space. But they CAN win on speed. They CAN win in handling and dynamics.

 

Ford of Europe is currently working with Getrag on a Dual-Clutch Sequential Gearbox (aka "DSG"), similar to Audi's, which is now available on $20K Volkswagens (!)...

 

If Ford REALLY wanted to be an innovator in the car segment, they would put the DSG on the fast track to production, at least as an option, in their mainstream American cars, including the Fusion and Five Hundred (and, what should have been, a C1 Focus). That would give them a feature that nothing from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, or even BM-freaking-W could match!

 

But since I believe their supposed emphasis on "innovation" to be a load of male bovine feces in the first place, I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Lhasa]

Here's my take on Ford's transmissions.

 

Conventional hydraulic automatics are fine for pickups, SUV's, and people-haulers, seeing as how driver involvement is not exactly high on the list of a customer shopping for such vehicles.

 

But cars are a different story. Cars can't win on seat height. Cars can't win on space. But they CAN win on speed. They CAN win in handling and dynamics.

 

Ford of Europe is currently working with Getrag on a Dual-Clutch Sequential Gearbox (aka "DSG"), similar to Audi's, which is now available on $20K Volkswagens (!)...

 

If Ford REALLY wanted to be an innovator in the car segment, they would put the DSG on the fast track to production, at least as an option, in their mainstream American cars, including the Fusion and Five Hundred (and, what should have been, a C1 Focus). That would give them a feature that nothing from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, or even BM-freaking-W could match!

 

But since I believe their supposed emphasis on "innovation" to be a load of male bovine feces in the first place, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

For greatly improved driveability, the fastest acceleration off a standing start (it will beat any manual, auto, DSG or whatever), and with the smoothest drive you could ever get, Ford should go for the Infinitely Variable Transmission (IVT) they have been developing for years with Torotrak. Ford bought a licence to use it but have hung back for no good reason that I can see, except to get the best returns from their previous investments in 5 and 6 speed autos.

[cheri/ck]

Here's my take on Ford's transmissions.

 

Conventional hydraulic automatics are fine for pickups, SUV's, and people-haulers, seeing as how driver involvement is not exactly high on the list of a customer shopping for such vehicles.

 

But cars are a different story. Cars can't win on seat height. Cars can't win on space. But they CAN win on speed. They CAN win in handling and dynamics.

 

Ford of Europe is currently working with Getrag on a Dual-Clutch Sequential Gearbox (aka "DSG"), similar to Audi's, which is now available on $20K Volkswagens (!)...

 

If Ford REALLY wanted to be an innovator in the car segment, they would put the DSG on the fast track to production, at least as an option, in their mainstream American cars, including the Fusion and Five Hundred (and, what should have been, a C1 Focus). That would give them a feature that nothing from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, or even BM-freaking-W could match!

 

But since I believe their supposed emphasis on "innovation" to be a load of male bovine feces in the first place, I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

 

And, I disagree with that assessment of many of Ford's truck customers. My 1999 F-150 4X4 with 5.4 is the ONLY 4X4 truck that I have driven for any length of time in my life (55 years and counting) with an automatic transmission. And guess what is the only thing I truly dislike about the truck - yep - the automatic transmission. I much prefer driving my 4.0 Ranger 4X4 because of its manual tranny.

 

I often wonder where Ford finds these customer "clinics". I do not consider them a representative sample of the general public or their traditional customers. Yes, it's obvious - I would like to see a strong manual tranny offered in the F-150.

 

Maybe something in the line of the truck that was sold when I bought the F-150 - that was a late 80's 460 F-250 with a very good 5-speed ZF manual tranny. Never touched the tranny other than routine maintenance in 200,000 miles. Replaced the clutch at 140,000 miles just because I thought it was a good idea.

 

And, of course, never waited for a rough downshift either to pass. I'm not alone. There are plenty of Ford truck customers out there buying F-250's because those are available with a good manual tranny in all engine choices.

[syrtran]

manually shifting an auto is for poseurs.

 

You want a stick or not.

Fusion doesnt offer it ? Oh well. Get a Mazda.

 

Tell that to all the guys in the early '70s who just had to have a Chryco "slapstick" automatic with ratchet shifter. Why, you might ask, would these "poseurs" want an auto in a hemi Roadrunner? Well, because it was a full second quicker down the quarter-mile than the 4-speed. See, when you push that third pedal in, your engine is no longer pushing the car, and friction is slowing it down (albeit, slowly). An auto, otoh, is always connected to the rear wheels. If it's properly tuned (i.e. aftermarket), shifts in an auto are even quicker than Ferrari's much-vaunted electric clutch/gearbox in the F50.

 

P.S. The old two-speed trannies that Top Fuel was using 15-20 years ago were actually heavily modified Powerglides. Of course, Eddie Hill and Don Prudhomme weren't actually shifting them manually.

 

P.P.S Actually, I wish the Tribby had come with a manual. The Duratech's power band is much too high for the lousy 3-speed + OD + locking TC.

[RaZor]

Ford needs to recognize that if the competition has a feature that people like, they need to offer it too. Hell, if Mazda can have a manumatic and a manual on their V6 Mazda6, why can't Ford??!? I've driven my sister's 5 speed manual 4 cylinder Fusion and being able to shift your own gears definitely makes it more fun to drive. In fact, she would have like to have purchased the V6 version, but she really wanted a manual. Her & her husband have been looking into turbo kits from FSWerks.com to make up the HP difference.

 

When Ford sold both a manual & automatic version of the Taurus SHO, they sold a shitload of SHO's. But, when they stopped offering the manual option, the enthusiasts stopped caring about it. There were other issues with the 96 SHO (cams, styling, etc.), but I believe the lack of a manual transmission was the biggest reason it stopped selling so well.

 

Hopefully there will be an ST or SVT version of the Fusion with a manuel & manumatic option, but I hope the standard V6 will also get the same option.

 

I agree and will add that to regain the market share of customers Ford must provide the vehicles that those who bought Ford before but now are driving Hondas, Toyotas & Acuras, etc - Ford is going to have to provide the enthusiast-type car. The boomers and older people that are buying Camrys & Lexus (etc) are also buying them for the enhancements that Ford has let slip by - most likely to the mentality of having the lowest price (in class) versus the best in class.

 

I've said it b4 on this forum, but will again, I would go right down to the local dealer and buy a Fusion today -- IF I could get one with a 6 spd (even a 5 spd) manual in a V6 SEL. Because I can't - I won't buy a Fusion.

 

Ford needs to raise it's sights - to bring a rise in market share(and profits). I understand that they are going through a big turn-around, and I can be patient, but I hope that in a year or two they can learn that doing things half-a$$ed is paritally why they are - where they are.

 

I am not looking for a dragster; not interested in automatics with paddle-shifters, or sport-a-matics; but my next car WILL BE a competent sports sedan and will be a manual. If Ford can provide it, I will give them first shot. Get the 6 speed from Volvo. If it will hold up in the S60-R, it should do alright mated to a V6. Use your modules/parts across the complete line - learn from Toyota and Honda.

 

I could care less about "flashing my grill" - I want substance not flash.

[DMCCobra]

Yes, this D-L only business in their six speed auto has gotta go. We need a real 6 speed manual as well. This paddle shifter, automatic manual shift DSG stuff may be the ultimate for performance, but that's not so much the point. People like sticks because they like the feeling of moving the shifter, pushing in the clutch, etc. *They* want to do the driving, not some computer.