NEW CONTRACT

[Spring]

I agree. I rather hear from the horses mouth myself! STU you know who I am refering to at National Negotiations. He has'nt lied to us.

 

I think even you might be a little shocked. I was expecting to hear 2 trades, maybe wage cut or retiree cuts in health care. Contracting letter taken away..etc.. none of that shit..

 

and the eastside gets work.... :happy feet: :happy feet: finally.. :happy feet: :happy feet:

 

 

No offense Eagle, bu they've been dangling that mythical carrot of "new work" at all of us for how long? What new work has there been? An engine that could have gone to Brookpark goes to Mexico. China! India! All of these things are slaps in the face to the workers here in North America. Regardless of what they're trying to take or offering to "give", I stand by "I'm good where I'm at". What am I'm most concerned about? The fact that they want to take away the retirees' vision and dental and limit them to Traditional Blue Cross or Kaiser. That's the International playing pass the buck and having the company do their dirty work! The UAW is taking over the VEBA in the new year and they want rid of the vision and dental. I wonder what their sweetheart deal is for themselves when they retire! We all know that they have a separate contract and a secondary pension. What about health care coverage? I'm not being facetious, I'd like some information on this! But the minute that anyone wants to take anything away from any retiree, I'm against it! Bottom line! Non-starter.

 

Secondly, binding arbitration?! Give up the right to strike? Kiss my ass! Our contract expires in 2011, what could they possibly have up their sleeves that would necessitate them having to go after that right now? They have no integrity, that is blatantly obvious by how many times they have come to us asking for more and have consistently failed to live up to what THEY ALREADY AGREED THEY WOULD DO! My God! We can't even get them to honor the contract on the shop floor and they want more?!

 

When they were in trouble, they came to us and the UAW said sit down and tell us what you need. They had that first bite of the apple! GM and Chrysler were screaming that it wasn't enough and wouldn't help them. Ford said it was enough to see them through. It wasn't easy but it was agreed to. Now they come back and want more?! You only get one shot at us, you don't get to come back and take another. And Ford will NOT go bankrupt and seek government intervention because the Ford family is NOT going to give up control of the company that bears their name!

 

I will tell you something, the whole thing is starting to really stink of collusion between Ford and the UAW! And it's starting to look like they're colluding against the rank and file!

[TheEagle]

1...Further the distance between traditional and entry level, will they care to cut our benefits when we are eligible to retire the way traditional employee's have screwed them ?

 

Remember with all due time the entry level employee will be the majority, and have a majority vote on future contracts.

 

2...Good even though i do not know how much more they could consolidate< I am not a trades worker so i can not honestly say i know how that would of effected them either way besides obviously adding work.

 

3...VEBA committee will do away with this when they take over retiree health care anyway early next year, but the union will sell it like they fought for this and made a stand on not cutting the retiree's more.....until the company is relieved of there obligations in January 2010.

 

4... Eagle with all do respect we have not had a raise since 2004, all of our gains in lieu of pay raises have been given back since 2005, I mean we where to receive performance bonuses instead of a yearly raise and we have not even gotten those. This saved the company millions in hourly pay rates over the years.

No i do not expect a pay raise, again we have not had one since 2004 think we are all use to no raises. But believe this when the 2011 contract is passed by both sides company and union expect an arbitrator to cut wages regardless.

We have lost COLA (regardless if it did in fact go up or down) we lost it and that directly effected my hourly rate.

1. Binding Arbitration works BOTH WAYS. We can not strike over IMPROVEMENTS but also the company is not able to take away and wages and benifits as a result or we can arbitrate it. So it works in our benifit.

 

2.there is a monetary bonus in this agreement also for quality achievements or somting about quality.

 

3.veba.you might have a point.

 

4. and this is an important point my liquid friend, entry level is capped at 20% they will never be the majority. The UAW did make sure they will be able to earn our wage eventually. True, it will take more time maybe but the UAW did'nt sell the entry level out, in my view they gave them a fighting chance to have a decent paying job with a possible future in a reshaping and growing company. If we don't do this we don't have to even worry about entry level workers, because I don;t think there will be any.

 

just to give you how I am feeling right now.

[Furious1Auto]

We have'nt even heard the agreement yet....I am not saying vote NO or YES....Lets hear what we gave up and what we are getting for it before we vote..YES or NO!

 

 

At least we could be intelligent about our vote!

 

 

Who gives a f-ck what they want, they have sealed two agreements full of empty promises which have still not materialized, and they are now profitable. What are they going to offer more empty product commitments so you will give up the rite to strike, are you kidding? The I-UAW can leave copies of the tentative agreement in the bathroom stalls for each member to wipe their a-s with it. I don't even care to read the f-cking thing! Come back in 2011, and we'll talk after the strike authority vote!!!!!!!!

[lquidspine]

1. Binding Arbitration works BOTH WAYS. We can not strike over IMPROVEMENTS but also the company is not able to take away and wages and benifits as a result or we can arbitrate it. So it works in our benifit.

 

2.there is a monetary bonus in this agreement also for quality achievements or somting about quality.

 

3.veba.you might have a point.

 

4. and this is an important point my liquid friend, entry level is capped at 20% they will never be the majority. The UAW did make sure they will be able to earn our wage eventually. True, it will take more time maybe but the UAW did'nt sell the entry level out, in my view they gave them a fighting chance to have a decent paying job with a possible future in a reshaping and growing company. If we don't do this we don't have to even worry about entry level workers, because I don;t think there will be any.

 

just to give you how I am feeling right now.

1..It can work against us just as easily Eagle

 

2...Like all the bonuses that have been promised since 2005, no thanks they can add that to the shortfall in the pension fund.

 

Quality....all I will say is at every plant I have been at quality comes second to getting the numbers so screw that based on quality.

 

3..They have the power to manage the fund to prolong it as they see fit, I do not remember much about Blanchard as the Gov of Mi but politicians usually go where the money is and he has already been named as one of the trusties.

 

4.. entry level this contract is capped at 20% except in certain plants ...you said the east side was getting work hmmm aren't the two plants that do not count against the cap on the east side /ponder

 

But you missed my point; entry level at 20% now they move up in wages but not benefits ..more entry level come in and move up still earning half the benefits .....within 3 contracts is what I see is all it takes for the bulk of the traditional s left before the entry level's are the majority....Sure they will make our wages but they wont have near our benefits or our pension....should they care if they decide to cut "legacy costs" in the future ?

Edited October 9, 2009 by lquidspine

[TheEagle]

No offense Eagle, bu they've been dangling that mythical carrot of "new work" at all of us for how long? What new work has there been? An engine that could have gone to Brookpark goes to Mexico. China! India! All of these things are slaps in the face to the workers here in North America. Regardless of what they're trying to take or offering to "give", I stand by "I'm good where I'm at". What am I'm most concerned about? The fact that they want to take away the retirees' vision and dental and limit them to Traditional Blue Cross or Kaiser. That's the International playing pass the buck and having the company do their dirty work! The UAW is taking over the VEBA in the new year and they want rid of the vision and dental. I wonder what their sweetheart deal is for themselves when they retire! We all know that they have a separate contract and a secondary pension. What about health care coverage? I'm not being facetious, I'd like some information on this! But the minute that anyone wants to take anything away from any retiree, I'm against it! Bottom line! Non-starter.

 

Secondly, binding arbitration?! Give up the right to strike? Kiss my ass! Our contract expires in 2011, what could they possibly have up their sleeves that would necessitate them having to go after that right now? They have no integrity, that is blatantly obvious by how many times they have come to us asking for more and have consistently failed to live up to what THEY ALREADY AGREED THEY WOULD DO! My God! We can't even get them to honor the contract on the shop floor and they want more?!

 

When they were in trouble, they came to us and the UAW said sit down and tell us what you need. They had that first bite of the apple! GM and Chrysler were screaming that it wasn't enough and wouldn't help them. Ford said it was enough to see them through. It wasn't easy but it was agreed to. Now they come back and want more?! You only get one shot at us, you don't get to come back and take another. And Ford will NOT go bankrupt and seek government intervention because the Ford family is NOT going to give up control of the company that bears their name!

 

I will tell you something, the whole thing is starting to really stink of collusion between Ford and the UAW! And it's starting to look like they're colluding against the rank and file!

 

 

There are no retiree take aways in this new agreement I am told. So what buck are they pasing?

 

Again, I don't think they are giving up the right to strike. Binding arbitration on wage and benifits is not giving up the right to strike they are two seperate things. You can't strike on wage and benifits. The uaw never strikes on wage and benifits. They do health and safety strikes, right? or Strike over Product committment.

 

That is where i disagree with Ron and Bob. If htey were promised product and they did'nt receive it I would strike Ford over that moral issue. Because the public might suppoprt us on an issue like that vs our wages and benifits. Don't you guys agree with that?

 

Or they used to anyway. The only strike I seen about wage and benifits was AMerican Axle..How did that one end?

 

I certainly don't like living in the fear of agreement afetr agreement and agree with your point enough is enough.

 

All those special perks the Int UAW reps get are being taken away next week in thier negotiations with UAW.

[Spring]

And Binding Arbitration can be used as the biggest stall tactic in the world, something the Executive Board is very familiar with! It's a no go. Sorry. Try again.

[TheEagle]

1..It can work against us just as easily Eagle

 

2...Like all the bonuses that have been promised since 2005, no thanks they can add that to the shortfall in the pension fund.

 

Quality....all I will say is at every plant I have been at quality comes second to getting the numbers so screw that based on quality.

 

3..They have the power to manage the fund to prolong it as they see fit, I do not remember much about Blanchard as the Gov of Mi but politicians usually go where the money is and he has already been named as one of the trusties.

 

4.. entry level this contract is capped at 20% except in certain plants ...you said the east side was getting work hmmm aren't the two plants that do not count against the cap on the east side /ponder

 

But you missed my point; entry level at 20% now they move up in wages but not benefits ..more entry level come in and move up still earning half the benefits .....within 3 contracts is what I see is all it takes for the bulk of the traditional s left before the entry level's are the majority....Sure they will make our wages but they wont have near our benefits or our pension....should they care if they decide to cut "legacy costs" in the future ?

 

 

Thats why the VEBA is seperate..The pension should be next, then your point would be mute!

No rawsonville is on the otherside of town.

 

Its will take them 20 years to get sterling entry level 100% some of the smaller plants will be 100% entry level before sterling and rawsonville.. remember its 20% company wide not plant wide.

 

Bonuses are nice in my wallet, I'll take your ficticous check when it comes in if you don't mind. :shades:

 

I share your skeptisium but I am just relieved in what I heard today and thought I would share it.

[TheEagle]

And Binding Arbitration can be used as the biggest stall tactic in the world, something the Executive Board is very familiar with! It's a no go. Sorry. Try again.

 

 

There are rules on arbitration in this agreement. I know that becaus ei aked. I am not sure what they are but rember it only on wage and benifit IMPROVEMENTS.

 

I am not selling you on this so I am not going to try again. Vote how you want. I am just trying to share it with you. I can go away if you want me to.

[lquidspine]

name='TheEagle' date='Oct 8 2009, 11:12 PM' post='555517']

There are no retiree take aways in this new agreement I am told. So what buck are they pasing?

It wont matter come January

Again, I don't think they are giving up the right to strike. Binding arbitration on wage and benifits is not giving up the right to strike they are two seperate things. You can't strike on wage and benifits. The uaw never strikes on wage and benifits. They do health and safety strikes, right? or Strike over Product committment.

 

That is where i disagree with Ron and Bob. If htey were promised product and they did'nt receive it I would strike Ford over that moral issue. Because the public might suppoprt us on an issue like that vs our wages and benifits. Don't you guys agree with that?

 

The public does not care where the product is made.

 

The only strike I seen about wage and benifits was AMerican Axle..How did that one end?

Yup the UAW settled for what they went on strike for and still lost all the work, so they saved money for 90+days settled, worked to build back up supplies and then outsourced the work to Mexico great vision by the leadership(UAW , company hell the way its looking both).

Like i have said before no one wants to strike but do not give up that right too.

 

I certainly don't like living in the fear of agreement afetr agreement and agree with your point enough is enough.

 

All those special perks the Int UAW reps get are being taken away next week in thier negotiations with UAW.

They should have sacrificed instead of giving themselves a raise back at the 2006 ConCon ,9 monthes after our first pay raise was given away to start the VEBA fund.

[Furious1Auto]

Eagle who elected you to sell the new agreement? Seriously you could be Bill Ford for all we know. It was the same thing in the last two settlements. Someone comes on this site telling the members they will love the tentative agreement, and act like they know something, but cannot answer direct questions.

 

I have to ask all of the members of this site, has any good come from the last two agreements? Now has Ford followed trough with their product commitments? O.K., Now is Ford at a disadvantage with the same domestic competition they are currently stealing market share from? O.K., is the company unprofitable? Lastly, have the managers in this company taken concessions by % equal to the average UAW Member?

Have I asked all of the right questions?

 

I think they can stand to wait till 2011, and even then they can tolerate the unions rite to strike because they have always had this rite!

[lquidspine]

Thats why the VEBA is seperate..The pension should be next, then your point would be mute!

No rawsonville is on the otherside of town.

 

Its will take them 20 years to get sterling entry level 100% some of the smaller plants will be 100% entry level before sterling and rawsonville.. remember its 20% company wide not plant wide.

 

Bonuses are nice in my wallet, I'll take your ficticous check when it comes in if you don't mind. :shades:

 

I share your skeptisium but I am just relieved in what I heard today and thought I would share it.

I do appreciate you sharing what you have been told, am not mad at you Eagle.

 

I am taking a shot in the dark but my guess the majority of the workforce left(under40k hourly) 10 years or more. Do not forget that the early late 80's early 90's saw an increased new workforce or returning workforce from the struggles of the early 80's.

 

I would guess that the majority of workers are in the 13 to 22 year range, with the most at the higher end of that. They had to much time in to risk losing years of service but not enough time in to take an early retirement package. So I will stick my assumption that by the contract year 2023 the majority will be entry level workers(assuming we stay on a 4 year lifespan for the next three contracts).

Edited October 9, 2009 by lquidspine

[TheEagle]

It wont matter come January

 

 

The public does not care where the product is made.

 

 

Yup the UAW settled for what they went on strike for and still lost all the work, so they saved money for 90+days settled, worked to build back up supplies and then outsourced the work to Mexico great vision by the leadership(UAW , company hell the way its looking both).

Like i have said before no one wants to strike but do not give up that right too.

 

 

They should have sacrificed instead of giving themselves a raise back at the 2006 ConCon ,9 monthes after our first pay raise was given away to start the VEBA fund.

 

1. You might be right.

2.You are right (sad but true)

3.totally agree, but if your threat of a strike is empty and not a viable threat what good is it? (just being pragmatic)

4.You are so right I could reach thru this computer and kiss you on the lips ( )

Edited October 9, 2009 by TheEagle

[TheEagle]

Eagle who elected you to sell the new agreement? Seriously you could be Bill Ford for all we know. It was the same thing in the last two settlements. Someone comes on this site telling the members they will love the tentative agreement, and act like they know something, but cannot answer direct questions.

 

I have to ask all of the members of this site, has any good come from the last two agreements? Now has Ford followed trough with their product commitments? O.K., Now is Ford at a disadvantage with the same domestic competition they are currently stealing market share from? O.K., is the company unprofitable? Lastly, have the managers in this company taken concessions by % equal to the average UAW Member?

Have I asked all of the right questions?

 

I think they can stand to wait till 2011, and even then they can tolerate the unions rite to strike because they have always had this rite!

 

 

Furious I am not selling you, just sharing. Your questions are valid in my eyes. I know a little but not all because I have not see language just have an hour conversation.

 

I just wonder if the work will be there for us in 2011 or will Ford take it all to mexico and Cnada just to prove to us they are not bullshitting?

 

Ps if I was Bill Ford I would not be on here worried about your sorry asses...I would be enjoying a nice piece of ass on lake tahoe!

 

I remember a thread on here when a glass plant called Ford 's bluff and turned down the agreement..The next day they had pad locks on machines...look for that thread and re read it..people changed there mind quick when they found out Ford is not bullshitting.

 

I don;t say yes or No just listen first.

Edited October 9, 2009 by TheEagle

[lquidspine]

Furious I am not selling you, just sharing. Your questions are valid in my eyes. I know a little but not all because I have not see language just have an hour conversation.

 

I just wonder if the work will be there for us in 2011 or will Ford take it all to mexico and Cnada just to prove to us they are not bullshitting?

 

I remember a thread on here when a glass plant called Ford 's bluff and turned down the agreement..The next day they had pad locks on machines...look for that thread and re read it..people changed there mind quick when they found out Ford is not bullshitting.

 

I don;t say yes or No just listen first.

Again lack of foresight from the top of the union, they agreed to tiered SUB/TAP weeks drained the US workers of a lot of those weeks since the last modifications and now can/will use that as leverage in negotiating.

 

Mullaly is no dumb ass just look at the cuts to the Boeing workforce and that is what he was brought here for.

 

I am not for making empty threats either, I personally do not want to see a strike but I want that option if the 2011 talks go to hell.

 

New Taurus is a hot seller

F-150 even on a down market is a good seller with a high profit margin

Mustang a good seller

Major investment into the MAP plant that would be a huge loss if a strike happened

 

Lets not forget that a yes vote will be used in Canada as leverage, even though they will more than likely pull out within a decade altogether anyway.

 

The issue is the US and Canada will never be competitive with third world workers, so my question is do we help them finish us off or do we make a stand at some point(that point being now), and see how things are when the contract is scheduled for renegotiates in the year 2011 ?

[TheEagle]

Again lack of foresight from the top of the union, they agreed to tiered SUB/TAP weeks drained the US workers of a lot of those weeks since the last modifications and now can/will use that as leverage in negotiating.

 

Mullaly is no dumb ass just look at the cuts to the Boeing workforce and that is what he was brought here for.

 

I am not for making empty threats either, I personally do not want to see a strike but I want that option if the 2011 talks go to hell.

 

New Taurus is a hot seller

F-150 even on a down market is a good seller with a high profit margin

Mustang a good seller

Major investment into the MAP plant that would be a huge loss if a strike happened

 

Lets not forget that a yes vote will be used in Canada as leverage, even though they will more than likely pull out within a decade altogether anyway.

 

The issue is the US and Canada will never be competitive with third world workers, so my question is do we help them finish us off or do we make a stand at some point(that point being now), and see how things are when the contract is scheduled for renegotiates in the year 2011 ?

 

 

I see it as No. Simply because we can't bargain for much more at Ford and make them disadvantaged, because GM and Chrysler will have an advantage along with less debt and we look good today and tommorrow we are out of buisness but not before Ford finishes us off and make us pay for our decision.

 

Nashville glass is a great example.

 

I don't really know just my worries.

[TheEagle]

I see it as No. Simply because we can't bargain for much more at Ford and make them disadvantaged, because GM and Chrysler will have an advantage along with less debt and we look good today and tommorrow we are out of buisness but not before Ford finishes us off and make us pay for our decision.

 

Nashville glass is a great example.

 

I don't really know just my worries.

 

plus we cn still strike over sourcing and safety i think. that is key.

[1993Stang]

1. Binding Arbitration works BOTH WAYS. We can not strike over IMPROVEMENTS but also the company is not able to take away and wages and benifits as a result or we can arbitrate it. So it works in our benifit.

 

2.there is a monetary bonus in this agreement also for quality achievements or somting about quality.

 

3.veba.you might have a point.

 

4. and this is an important point my liquid friend, entry level is capped at 20% they will never be the majority. The UAW did make sure they will be able to earn our wage eventually. True, it will take more time maybe but the UAW did'nt sell the entry level out, in my view they gave them a fighting chance to have a decent paying job with a possible future in a reshaping and growing company. If we don't do this we don't have to even worry about entry level workers, because I don;t think there will be any.

 

just to give you how I am feeling right now.

 

Yeah right, giving the entry level workers a fighting chance after laying others off and having scare tactics in place to push for buyouts. Seriously, give me a break. It doesn't matter what the company will do for you now, the fact is they are still opening up a contract. How many contracts do you need to vote on in a four year period? Who strikes over improvements? Why would there be any yes vote in giving up that right? Everyone that retires and another is brought in is entry level, I'm sure there will be a lot more entry level wages in the future. As a matter of fact, this will be a new part of their asking you for a vote of yes. We are adding more people to the rolls, entry level wages for all, more union members, Vote Yes. Seriously? Vote No. Remember they have a lot less members right now. More people hired in future, less wages.

[mbabbitt]

voting NO does not mean you are going to go on strike\\\\\\\\\\\\\ wake up\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Edited October 9, 2009 by mbabbitt

[400member]

I agree. I rather hear from the horses mouth myself! STU you know who I am refering to at National Negotiations. He has'nt lied to us.

 

I think even you might be a little shocked. I was expecting to hear 2 trades, maybe wage cut or retiree cuts in health care. Contracting letter taken away..etc.. none of that shit..

 

and the eastside gets new work.... :happy feet: :happy feet: finally.. :happy feet: :happy feet:

 

He also mentioned Ohio was a big winner in this agreement but no details.

 

Please doesn't your buddi see King is not just blowing Hinnie he's fk'n us so he can say to GM & Chrysler members I feel your pain! king feels in some sick way he can use this to boost his vote for presidency are you fk'n kidding me. king you all went around us the ford council back and shit in our face and ford knows it! these is leadership? your in a war and both of your allies had to go threw bloody bankruptcies and the members took serious casualties but your company survived and your warriors are in good shape, so you ask them to fall on their own swords!!! so you don't look better then your allies? And that's bargaining? they bleed so we all bleed! how does this help? why did we bust our ass to put ford on top when the reward was the same?

Edited October 9, 2009 by 400member

[400member]

ford is on top with less people than ever and they should be kissing our ass! Nobody at the top has given up a dime no blue preferred stock the shares are seven times their worth and we're in concession talks. At GM and Chrysler CEO's are laughing all the way to the bank! millions and millions of dollars of their debt was wiped out and they're already paying salary bonuses in less than 90 days and where are our members? losing their toys, houses, kid college funds, dental and health benefits, divorces abuse And our union wants us to sign a no strike clause What fk'n side is our union on? start the recall on all negotiators

[400member]

We have'nt even heard the agreement yet....I am not saying vote NO or YES....Lets hear what we gave up and what we are getting for it before we vote..YES or NO!

 

 

At least we could be intelligent about our vote!

 

get an answer in ten minutes please must be nice! you say if the vote is no it won't stop the insanity who are you kidding the company has plans on stopping! fact is all 3 were just laying in the woods until ford gets their no strike clause then you will see them turn the thumbs screws up!!! the big 3 companies are in collusion with each other to jam it right up our ass!

[400member]

Eagle,

 

I sure hope there is product for us. If this is true and we get product I would be nuetral until the details are revealed.

 

Can we still strke over health and safety, outside contractors and not following through on product commitments?

 

skill1

 

don't even think about biting! the ford council said no don't be apart of undermining them. our leadership is destroying our union from the inside.

[chris44]

Voting No won't stop the insanity...I am concerned the insanity will increase and get crazier voting NO!

I agree with you we have been getting kicked around like our fathers did in 1980 maybe worse but they did not strike until times got better in the 90"s..

 

Again just listen....then if you don't like what you heard vote NO. If you think it's a fair deal vote YES.

 

You must never give up your right to Strike.....When was the last time the UAW called a strike at Ford Mtr Co. ?????? September of 1976 ! This is the only tool we have left, we have already given back everthing we bargained for since that contract in 76. ENOUGH is ENOUGH. They all wants us to be on par with GM and Chrysler, well I want management to lead by example. Mullaly and Co. should first step up and take the same medicine that top management from GM and Chrysler did.....Don't hold your breath

[SOULJABOY]

I have read a lot of BS on here and seen some pretty fair answers. With that said, I have one question and it is to EAGLE.

 

What are we getting in leiu of giving up? You have said we are getting more than we are losing yet you failed to even give us a hint at what this is supposed to be.

 

More BS, I am good where I am at. This is a direct quote from A. Mulally.

[long donkey]

Where does it say we can strike over product commitment?

Quality is not controllable as long as management needs quantity.

Do you really understand what happened at Nashville?

Does anything change at the convention?

 

my kids just got up, and I got to go to bed.

I love my rank and file brothers and sisters.

See ya'll in the morning.