TBodette68 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 If this modification does not pass then I blame the International Union. Why? Because they allowed Ford to cancel the tuition payments and the membership is very stupid. If we look at this modification we will see no absoultly no negative to the current workers or retirees. I will break it down how I see it. Ford has a $10 billion loan coming due next year. They have two choices, 1.) Pay it (but this would take almost half of Fords cash on hand leaving them just enough cash to run day to day operations with no extra for future investments) 2.) Renegotiate the terms of the loan. (to get better terms on the loan Ford will have to show the investors that the union is making concessions (real or not real) and will not let Ford go bankrupt.) This modification is all a show, just like Ford saying they are doing better since they didnt take govt. money. If things do not improve in 12 to 18 months, Ford will be lucky to go through what GM has. This is because the economy is doing better and the govt may not loan Ford any money? Now I understand the membership felling that we are being screwed, and I will say we were totally hosed on the last couple agreements. But the "no strike" over wages is bogus. International negotiates wages and benefits. They also have to approve a strike. All Bob King had to do is extend his hand to Marty Mulloy or whoever Ford has negotiating and say "we wont ask for more wages or benefits the next two contracts". Come on guys be smart about this, it is all a PR stunt so Ford can get better terms. If Ford can save 2% on the $10 billion loan, that is $200 million a year. This modification is estimated to save Ford $20 million a year, do the math and get educated. The world runs through banks, not union contracts!!!!! I also think Ford will bring the majority of the work promised even if the mod fails. This is due to the decline of the dollar and it is not over yet. I believe the dollar will fall over the next several years. some good points here..some bullshit...in the mean time..anyone have the AAI results?..vote NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) Now I understand the membership felling that we are being screwed, and I will say we were totally hosed on the last couple agreements. But the "no strike" over wages is bogus. International negotiates wages and benefits. They also have to approve a strike. All Bob King had to do is extend his hand to Marty Mulloy or whoever Ford has negotiating and say "we wont ask for more wages or benefits the next two contracts". . If Ford can save 2% on the $10 billion loan, that is $200 million a year. This modification is estimated to save Ford $20 million a year, do the math and get educated. The world runs through banks, not union contracts!!!!! Wow, saves Ford $20 million per year? Big deal. You probably meant $200 million per year. Still, big deal. Not substantial enough to make a difference in whether Ford can pay back billions of dollars now is it? If the No Strike clause isn't that big of deal, remove it then!! Edited October 27, 2009 by Twincam Harley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbabbitt Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If this modification does not pass then I blame the International Union. Why? Because they allowed Ford to cancel the tuition payments and the membership is very stupid. If we look at this modification we will see no absoultly no negative to the current workers or retirees. I will break it down how I see it. Ford has a $10 billion loan coming due next year. They have two choices, 1.) Pay it (but this would take almost half of Fords cash on hand leaving them just enough cash to run day to day operations with no extra for future investments) 2.) Renegotiate the terms of the loan. (to get better terms on the loan Ford will have to show the investors that the union is making concessions (real or not real) and will not let Ford go bankrupt.) This modification is all a show, just like Ford saying they are doing better since they didnt take govt. money. If things do not improve in 12 to 18 months, Ford will be lucky to go through what GM has. This is because the economy is doing better and the govt may not loan Ford any money? Now I understand the membership felling that we are being screwed, and I will say we were totally hosed on the last couple agreements. But the "no strike" over wages is bogus. International negotiates wages and benefits. They also have to approve a strike. All Bob King had to do is extend his hand to Marty Mulloy or whoever Ford has negotiating and say "we wont ask for more wages or benefits the next two contracts". Come on guys be smart about this, it is all a PR stunt so Ford can get better terms. If Ford can save 2% on the $10 billion loan, that is $200 million a year. This modification is estimated to save Ford $20 million a year, do the math and get educated. The world runs through banks, not union contracts!!!!! I also think Ford will bring the majority of the work promised even if the mod fails. This is due to the decline of the dollar and it is not over yet. I believe the dollar will fall over the next several years. OK THEN WHY DOES IT READ IN BLACK AND WHITE IN THIS AGREEMENT, THAT YOUR WAGES CAN BE COMPARABLE TO THE U.S AUTO COMPANY'S INCLUDING THE TRANSPLANTS WHY IS THIS WRITEN IN THERE THINK ABOUT IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 (edited) If this modification does not pass then I blame the International Union. Why? Because they allowed Ford to cancel the tuition payments and the membership is very stupid. If we look at this modification we will see no absoultly no negative to the current workers or retirees. I will break it down how I see it. Ford has a $10 billion loan coming due next year. They have two choices, 1.) Pay it (but this would take almost half of Fords cash on hand leaving them just enough cash to run day to day operations with no extra for future investments) 2.) Renegotiate the terms of the loan. (to get better terms on the loan Ford will have to show the investors that the union is making concessions (real or not real) and will not let Ford go bankrupt.) This modification is all a show, just like Ford saying they are doing better since they didnt take govt. money. If things do not improve in 12 to 18 months, Ford will be lucky to go through what GM has. This is because the economy is doing better and the govt may not loan Ford any money? Now I understand the membership felling that we are being screwed, and I will say we were totally hosed on the last couple agreements. But the "no strike" over wages is bogus. International negotiates wages and benefits. They also have to approve a strike. All Bob King had to do is extend his hand to Marty Mulloy or whoever Ford has negotiating and say "we wont ask for more wages or benefits the next two contracts". Come on guys be smart about this, it is all a PR stunt so Ford can get better terms. If Ford can save 2% on the $10 billion loan, that is $200 million a year. This modification is estimated to save Ford $20 million a year, do the math and get educated. The world runs through banks, not union contracts!!!!! I also think Ford will bring the majority of the work promised even if the mod fails. This is due to the decline of the dollar and it is not over yet. I believe the dollar will fall over the next several years. Its a PR stunt all right! You must not be a tradesman or not give a shit about entry level ee's. :shades: Edited October 27, 2009 by takeme back 2blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUTOWORKER11 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 AAI 1265 NO 485 YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawselectrician Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 got this text this morning. Fwd: fwd: Aai 485 yes 1265 no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 AAI1265 NO 485 YES wonderfull Thanks updated totals are 5758--NO 1986---Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udontkno Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Its a PR stunt all right! You must not be a tradesman or not give a shit about entry level ee's. :shades: I understand how everyone feels, but this modification isnt the one that is hurting us. It was the last one. The last modification is the one that took everything away and promised little in return. If we look at why the UAW did that modification, we might understand, not like but understand it. GM was going balls out to break the union they even went bankrupt. Now Ford steps in by request of the UAW and negotiates a contract modification. This was done to take to Washington to show them the haircut the union was willing to take. Shelby and Corker demanded the no-strike as well as other modifications be put on GM and Chrysler. If the UAW and Ford didnt do that deal, its no telling what those bastards would have demanded, parity with the transplants??? Probably. VW is opening a plant in TN. starting pay $14.50 max out 3 yrs $19.00 with benefits. Is this a chance worth taking? Wagner was pissed at Ford but if Ford didnt do it and GM would have got parity, Ford would have been at a big disadvantage. If Ford would have asked us to take the same wage cut, we would have said hell no. Ford wouldnt have an option but to go into bankruptcy to get the same terms. The Ford family would have lost the company. We as a union didnt have a choice with the first modification. But today we do and those trying to make political gains are not telling the true facts. I say put the politics aside and lets do what is right. If we do and Ford can get better terms from the bond holders, we will get it all back in the future. I will be retired by then but I know it will come. My family has been with Ford since the 50's and I have lived through tough times before, not without sacrifice. But we have always come out on the other side in better shape then we entered. You can all hate me but be real to the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Job 1 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 wonderfull Thanks updated totals are 5758--NO 1986---Yes What day does DTP vote ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I understand how everyone feels, but this modification isnt the one that is hurting us. It was the last one. The last modification is the one that took everything away and promised little in return. If we look at why the UAW did that modification, we might understand, not like but understand it. GM was going balls out to break the union they even went bankrupt. Now Ford steps in by request of the UAW and negotiates a contract modification. This was done to take to Washington to show them the haircut the union was willing to take. Shelby and Corker demanded the no-strike as well as other modifications be put on GM and Chrysler. If the UAW and Ford didnt do that deal, its no telling what those bastards would have demanded, parity with the transplants??? Probably. VW is opening a plant in TN. starting pay $14.50 max out 3 yrs $19.00 with benefits. Is this a chance worth taking? Wagner was pissed at Ford but if Ford didnt do it and GM would have got parity, Ford would have been at a big disadvantage. If Ford would have asked us to take the same wage cut, we would have said hell no. Ford wouldnt have an option but to go into bankruptcy to get the same terms. The Ford family would have lost the company. We as a union didnt have a choice with the first modification. But today we do and those trying to make political gains are not telling the true facts. I say put the politics aside and lets do what is right. If we do and Ford can get better terms from the bond holders, we will get it all back in the future. I will be retired by then but I know it will come. My family has been with Ford since the 50's and I have lived through tough times before, not without sacrifice. But we have always come out on the other side in better shape then we entered. You can all hate me but be real to the message. Give backs are over. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeme back 2blue Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 I understand how everyone feels, but this modification isnt the one that is hurting us. It was the last one. The last modification is the one that took everything away and promised little in return. If we look at why the UAW did that modification, we might understand, not like but understand it. GM was going balls out to break the union they even went bankrupt. Now Ford steps in by request of the UAW and negotiates a contract modification. This was done to take to Washington to show them the haircut the union was willing to take. Shelby and Corker demanded the no-strike as well as other modifications be put on GM and Chrysler. If the UAW and Ford didnt do that deal, its no telling what those bastards would have demanded, parity with the transplants??? Probably. VW is opening a plant in TN. starting pay $14.50 max out 3 yrs $19.00 with benefits. Is this a chance worth taking? Wagner was pissed at Ford but if Ford didnt do it and GM would have got parity, Ford would have been at a big disadvantage. If Ford would have asked us to take the same wage cut, we would have said hell no. Ford wouldnt have an option but to go into bankruptcy to get the same terms. The Ford family would have lost the company. We as a union didnt have a choice with the first modification. But today we do and those trying to make political gains are not telling the true facts. I say put the politics aside and lets do what is right. If we do and Ford can get better terms from the bond holders, we will get it all back in the future. I will be retired by then but I know it will come. My family has been with Ford since the 50's and I have lived through tough times before, not without sacrifice. But we have always come out on the other side in better shape then we entered. You can all hate me but be real to the message. you are a pussy! enuf is enuf! I would rather see them shut it all down than go where they are leading us. I have 23 years. I can find a refridgeiator box under the bridge to die peacefully in. This country will not have any manufacturing if we don't stand up and fight! Not only the company's but especially our extremely fucked up govt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjt4433 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 What day does DTP vote ? DTP votes Thursday and Friday. I am expecting a huge number of no votes there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunionisforever Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 What day does DTP vote ? Thursday and Friday, not sure on the times but have no worry, if shop talk is any indication the no vote will be overwhelming. I would just like to add that after we vote this down we must demand NO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD! No more contract modifications EVER! It's time for the company to sit down (without the Union) and figure out the salary concessions. I'm sure Wall Street will love it when they cut salary payouts 10-20%. Don't let these assholes rewrite history and pretend that we didn't do our part already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Harley Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 The Detroit News is reporting that Woodhaven has overwhelmingly rejected the modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trufflebuns Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 wonderfull Thanks updated totals are 5758--NO 1986---Yes A bump with the vote totals and to get past the unwanted BS in the thread. Great job folks, keep the NO votes coming!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ds650 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 Avon Lake local 2000 votes Saturday Oct. 31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBodette68 Posted October 27, 2009 Author Share Posted October 27, 2009 updated totals...NO--5758 Yes--2986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 If we look at this modification we will see no absoultly no negative to the current workers Except for the fact that there are no concrete product guarantee for any current Ford plant besides LAP and MAP. But hey, why let a little thing about having a job get in the way. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trufflebuns Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 updated totals...NO--5758 Yes--2986 bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereswaldo Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 GM was going balls out to break the union they even went bankrupt. Now Ford steps in by request of the UAW and negotiates a contract modification. This was done to take to Washington to show them the haircut the union was willing to take. Shelby and Corker demanded the no-strike as well as other modifications be put on GM and Chrysler. We as a union didnt have a choice with the first modification. But today we do and those trying to make political gains are not telling the true facts. I say put the politics aside and lets do what is right. If we do and Ford can get better terms from the bond holders, we will get it all back in the future. I will be retired by then but I know it will come. My family has been with Ford since the 50's and I have lived through tough times before, not without sacrifice. But we have always come out on the other side in better shape then we entered. You can all hate me but be real to the message. I have not held any elected office and so far have no plans. Here's my REAL message. Giving up ANY right to strike......NO ! It is ambiguous putting a $$ on it for Ford. The trade consol will result in layoffs from tools and whether its bumping out of 300 or 1300 or 3300 prod people........NO ! Show me REAL equity of sacrifice...they wont cuz its class warfare and its a race to the bottom........NO ! Yes the Mar.'09 mods was the cannon shot to the pocketbook and now its the shot that will buckle the integrity of the UAW with regard to the very points that created our once great union in the beginning. Just wait til TCAP is entry level, followed by others....if you think you've seen whipsawing in your day, trust me , you have seen Nothing yet. Once trust and integrity is lost, its very hard to earn it back. Are you listening Ron....and yes especially you too..... Bob with two O's...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodhaven44 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 The Detroit News is reporting that Woodhaven has overwhelmingly rejected the modification. That story is about AAI, local 3000. AAI is located in Flat Rock and their local(3000) is in the city of Woodhaven. Not to confuse anybody else, but Woodhaven stamping and Woodhaven forging (both in Woodhaven) vote Thursday and Friday at local 387, which is in Brownstown, but has a mailing address of Flat Rock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1993Stang Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 That story is about AAI, local 3000. AAI is located in Flat Rock and their local(3000) is in the city of Woodhaven. Not to confuse anybody else, but Woodhaven stamping and Woodhaven forging (both in Woodhaven) vote Thursday and Friday at local 387, which is in Brownstown, but has a mailing address of Flat Rock! How is Woodhaven looking right now? Bump for results!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theunionisforever Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 How is Woodhaven looking right now? Bump for results!! This article says it was voted down by 74% http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2009102...ord-concessions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pioneer Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 This article says it was voted down by 74%http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2009102...ord-concessions Local 3000 is AAI, not Woodhaven Stamping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodhaven44 Posted October 27, 2009 Share Posted October 27, 2009 How is Woodhaven looking right now? Bump for results!! I don't expect it to pass. It didn't pass here last time, and neither did our local agreement this past summer. We have a lot of pissed off people here right now. I will try and post the results Friday night after they are counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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