Eyes wide shut

[MichiganTruck_Mafia]

hmmm... The similarities between this guys outburst and Captain 723 are uncanny...makes you wonder if they are one and the same?? I've noticed a steady uptick in the desperate posts by the IUAW reps on here. I think they might be getting a little worried that the scam is collapsing.

 

This is correct. Notice all of the "vote yes" talk from new members and those with very few posts? Don't be fooled.

 

VOTE NO

[TBodette68]

TDBoette -The only thing I do at Walmart is F*ck your gap toothed mother in the Parking lot!!! I actually appreciate my job! But that's where you'll be working when my high seniority ass knocks you the f#ck outta your plant.

I got more time in the restroom than you got seniority asswipe. you need to be jackslapped into next week. your mother threw the best part of you away at childbirth.

[skeptic]

"IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO US". Have you NO COMMON SENSE??? What happens to your workers if in the next 6 years inflation drives up 30% like it did in the early 90's, or 70% in the late 70's, or even 100% like it did in the late 1910's??? You'll be the first one out on the street with a sign saying, "WILL WORK FOR FOOD".

 

INFLATION! INFLATION!! INFLATION!!!!

 

WE ALL NEED TO WORRY ABOUT IT, IT IS A POSSIBILITY

 

 

 

Did I say "IT COULD NEVER HAPPEN TO US"? No, I didn't. Why don't you tell me the last time the UAW struck the Big 3 over wage and benefit increases? We haven't struck since '76 and it wasn't for pay and bennies then. Striking over wages and benefit increases allows the company, by law, to lock us out and bring in Scabs. That's why it'll never be for pay and bennies. Sourcing and Health/Safety, yes. So what are WE really being asked to give up? Have you no common sense, sir? It's PR for Wall Street people wake up!

He may have no common sense but you are uncommonly stupid if you beleive you are giving up nothing.Vote No this deal is almost defeated.

[Spring]

Just got a text that had been forwarded MANY times. It shows just how desperate the IUAW has gotten! It says " the contract has already failed no matter what. Even if we all vote yes. It's important 2 pass this at OHAP we will get a vehicle" I think that they're going after their 51% by any means necessary! There was a meeting called today at 1:00 p.m. and so our Chairman and some appointed reps along with the IUAW and Regional reps in the plant went rushing to make the meeting. And then this comes up. Coincidence? My ass! Who still has to vote? LAP? KTP? DTP? OHAP? Put enough of that crap out and who knows what could happen? Once again, the IUAW shows the utter contempt they have for this membership! They show that they think we are stupid enough to fall for such blatantly obvious attempts to achieve their agendas. What's at stake now? Can you imagine Ron and Bill having to go back to the company with egg on their face over this? "Yeah, we brought this agreement to you but the membership didn't fall for it". There are still enough votes out there to swing it!

[stepup]

You have to understand the big picture, Ford will get what it wants, period.

 

We have one valid argument:

 

1. We need our income and benefits to remain the same becasue we are comfortable there.

 

 

Let's be honest, we can be replaced in 20 seconds for half the pay, and being a tradesman, I include myself in that category. Please hold the comments about not being a good tradesman, blah, blah, blah, I've been around and I've seen the best that Ford has and I've seen the best of the contractors and the best contractors would drop their tools in a minute and run to Ford for $20-$25

 

We have no right complaining about what CEO's make. If a person wants to make that much money, they have every right to start their own business or educate themselves so companies believe that you are worth all that money.

 

Do you think Bill Ford sits around and salivates over how much he can pay a CEO and how much he can take from hourly. If it were up to him, he wouldn't want to pay anyone. So, he pays what he feels a position is worth.

 

Collective bargaining is a great tool. I'm part of the UAW and proud. Negotiations are walking a fine line and I believe our leadership has our best interest in mind.

 

We can vote this down, but mark my words, they will come after us with a vengeance. We need a positive public perception of us because they do buy the cars.

[lquidspine]

You have to understand the big picture, Ford will get what it wants, period.

 

We have one valid argument:

 

1. We need our income and benefits to remain the same becasue we are comfortable there.

 

 

Let's be honest, we can be replaced in 20 seconds for half the pay, and being a tradesman, I include myself in that category. Please hold the comments about not being a good tradesman, blah, blah, blah, I've been around and I've seen the best that Ford has and I've seen the best of the contractors and the best contractors would drop their tools in a minute and run to Ford for $20-$25

 

We have no right complaining about what CEO's make. If a person wants to make that much money, they have every right to start their own business or educate themselves so companies believe that you are worth all that money.

 

Do you think Bill Ford sits around and salivates over how much he can pay a CEO and how much he can take from hourly. If it were up to him, he wouldn't want to pay anyone. So, he pays what he feels a position is worth.

 

Collective bargaining is a great tool. I'm part of the UAW and proud. Negotiations are walking a fine line and I believe our leadership has our best interest in mind.

 

We can vote this down, but mark my words, they will come after us with a vengeance. We need a positive public perception of us because they do buy the cars.

They can not even run an 8ft box option for the F-150 at the most modern U.S. assembly plant, a option for the line of vehicles they where built to make.

 

Let me repeat...

 

They can not even run an 8ft box option for the F-150 at the most modern U.S. assembly plant, a option for the line of vehicles they where built to make.

 

That being said you honestly think that with almost no turn over time they can up and move or up and train a whole new workforce?

 

I was around both times they got C-crew going at DTP it took weeks of cross shift training to get up and running, that with a healthy mix of employees that had been working at the plant.

 

Collective bargaining is a great tool that we can agree on. We did that in 2007, we even helped them by saving the company over 500 million dollars earlier this year less than 2 years after we bargained a 2007 contract.

 

This deal only saves the company money if they plan on screwing us in 2011, the 2007 CBA already recognized over 7 thousand jobs to be entry level.

 

You show me one area where this contract saves the company money....please just one besides a pay freeze on entry level workers.

 

Why the need to remove the 20% cap on entry level employees ?

Does Ford plan to in-source over 8 thousand jobs ? that's what it would take to reach the 20% cap

 

 

You are right we have no right to get mad at how much CEO's get paid, but considering what we already saved them this year they have no right to reopen the contract and expect us to give more when they are unwilling to do the same.

 

They want bankruptcy worker contracts ? then they need to make the sacrifices those executives where forced to make, simple as that.

 

Lets not forget in January the retiree health care will be off their books(besides their contractually obligated payments into the fund) how much will that save then yearly ?

 

 

stepup please come true with your name and switch to willintostepdown that would suite you better, Unions are suppose to fight for all the workers.

Recently some seem only willing to fight for the company, lets not forget who makes these products and what they need to survive.

[stepup]

They can not even run an 8ft box option for the F-150 at the most modern U.S. assembly plant, a option for the line of vehicles they where built to make.

 

Let me repeat...

 

They can not even run an 8ft box option for the F-150 at the most modern U.S. assembly plant, a option for the line of vehicles they where built to make.

 

That being said you honestly think that with almost no turn over time they can up and move or up and train a whole new workforce?

 

I was around both times they got C-crew going at DTP it took weeks of cross shift training to get up and running, that with a healthy mix of employees that had been working at the plant.

 

Collective bargaining is a great tool that we can agree on. We did that in 2007, we even helped them by saving the company over 500 million dollars earlier this year less than 2 years after we bargained a 2007 contract.

 

This deal only saves the company money if they plan on screwing us in 2011, the 2007 CBA already recognized over 7 thousand jobs to be entry level.

 

You show me one area where this contract saves the company money....please just one besides a pay freeze on entry level workers.

 

Why the need to remove the 20% cap on entry level employees ?

Does Ford plan to in-source over 8 thousand jobs ? that's what it would take to reach the 20% cap

 

 

You are right we have no right to get mad at how much CEO's get paid, but considering what we already saved them this year they have no right to reopen the contract and expect us to give more when they are unwilling to do the same.

 

They want bankruptcy worker contracts ? then they need to make the sacrifices those executives where forced to make, simple as that.

 

Lets not forget in January the retiree health care will be off their books(besides their contractually obligated payments into the fund) how much will that save then yearly ?

 

 

stepup please come true with your name and switch to willintostepdown that would suite you better, Unions are suppose to fight for all the workers.

Recently some seem only willing to fight for the company, lets not forget who makes these products and what they need to survive.

 

OK my real name is TheEagle. Not the one out of the five you're thinking but possibly one of the other four.

[gunnut69]

Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing?

 

Whether you want to believe it or not the fact is that any sizable pay/benefit increases will be limited by Chrysler or GM's capacity to afford it. Pattern Bargaining will assure that we don't strike on our wages or benefits anyway. It will be entirely up to the leadership to decide on what to go out on. Believe it or not it won't be for wages and benefits. So in reality, we're about to take a huge black eye in public opinion for something that doesn't even matter. If you're honest with yourself you have to realize that this agreement is nothing more than PR for Wall Street. To level the playing field. I agree with the original poster, if you thought that the US public hates us now, just wait till you see how they react when this vote goes down and they find out that we weren't even being asked to take a pay or benefit cut. We are absolutely at risk of reversing every market share gain we've made in the last 8 months and then some. But by all means, blindly vote NO so you can feel good about yourself. At least that is until you hear how the media talks about us when it's all done and possibly watch our volumes start to tank.

 

more accurate to say that we arent being asked to give up any MORE pay and benefit cuts at this time. we are being asked to agree that next contract wages are maintained at a equal level to all competition. i guess though if you believe that wall street responds somehow to "pr" or that anything we could ever give up would earn union auto workers good press on any large scale, i guess im just wasting my breath.

[gunnut69]

You have to understand the big picture, Ford will get what it wants, period.

 

We have one valid argument:

 

1. We need our income and benefits to remain the same becasue we are comfortable there.

 

 

Let's be honest, we can be replaced in 20 seconds for half the pay, and being a tradesman, I include myself in that category. Please hold the comments about not being a good tradesman, blah, blah, blah, I've been around and I've seen the best that Ford has and I've seen the best of the contractors and the best contractors would drop their tools in a minute and run to Ford for $20-$25

 

We have no right complaining about what CEO's make. If a person wants to make that much money, they have every right to start their own business or educate themselves so companies believe that you are worth all that money.

 

Do you think Bill Ford sits around and salivates over how much he can pay a CEO and how much he can take from hourly. If it were up to him, he wouldn't want to pay anyone. So, he pays what he feels a position is worth.

 

Collective bargaining is a great tool. I'm part of the UAW and proud. Negotiations are walking a fine line and I believe our leadership has our best interest in mind.

 

We can vote this down, but mark my words, they will come after us with a vengeance. We need a positive public perception of us because they do buy the cars.

 

people buy cars that they like and that they believe are reliable. PERIOD. do you think that all those god damn kias are selling because people just love korean auto workers???no way.

[CandyCane]

I voted NO today and feel all the better for it.What the hell good would a union be without the right to strike.

 

We pay our two hrs. wages a month for representation and contract enforcement,not modifications and no strike clauses.

 

What good is our union even with the right to strike???? Hope you feel good about giving up new work!

[skeptic]

What good is our union even with the right to strike???? Hope you feel good about giving up new work!

You just said what good is our union.So why would you beleive this same union on work promises.Candy Cane you have been licked.No votes have a 3400 vote majority.

Edited October 29, 2009 by skeptic

[Grey Goose]

Let me ask all of you something that are in the 'Vote NO' camp. When/If we are the target come 2011, how much of a pay raise do you think the UAW will be able to negotiate knowing that the other 2 have binding arbitration on that very thing?

 

Whether you want to believe it or not the fact is that any sizable pay/benefit increases will be limited by Chrysler or GM's capacity to afford it. Pattern Bargaining will assure that we don't strike on our wages or benefits anyway. It will be entirely up to the leadership to decide on what to go out on. Believe it or not it won't be for wages and benefits. So in reality, we're about to take a huge black eye in public opinion for something that doesn't even matter. If you're honest with yourself you have to realize that this agreement is nothing more than PR for Wall Street. To level the playing field. I agree with the original poster, if you thought that the US public hates us now, just wait till you see how they react when this vote goes down and they find out that we weren't even being asked to take a pay or benefit cut. We are absolutely at risk of reversing every market share gain we've made in the last 8 months and then some. But by all means, blindly vote NO so you can feel good about yourself. At least that is until you hear how the media talks about us when it's all done and possibly watch our volumes start to tank.

Look I hate to admit it, it sucks to be an American blue collar worker no doubt......but I have to agree with Walter here.

He said it all pretty well.

Plain and simple we , the union are simply NOT in the drivers seat at this time and indeed may never be again.

Yes Ford is doing well right now, however, it has HUGE debt obligations coming in the future that because of bankruptcy GM and Chrysler simply do not have to worry about. Their debt for the most part was abolished via the courts.

So the fact is that Ford is already at a competitve disadvantage because of their debt, and that debt has to be repaid somehow.

We can scream about Upper Managements salaries, Mullally, Fields and the rest but I think we all agree that SOMEONE up there in Dearborn had to have SOMETHING to do with that success, and that comes with a price. Love him or hate him Mullally has Ford on the upswing and that skill costs money. Remember how Ford drfited along with no vision or leadership when we had those two guys who came after Nasser. They were so obscure I can't even remember their names right now.

The no strike thing is a red herring period. No way the UAW strikes Ford no way. If the abitrator allows GM or Chrysler to lower wages or drop health care or pensions, a very real possibility by the way,then can any of you imagine the union calling a strike against Ford over the same issue? At that point how could Ford compete with either of its rivals, when they have such an advantage.

It sucks I know. I hate it. But, it is what it is. Our fate is now tied to an arbitrator anyway.....it's just that no one talks about it.

Walter is also correct ...we are gonna take a HUGE PR hit over this. The public hates us now. Wait until Fox News convinces them that The UAW is preventing the rebuilding of American manufacturing and is responsible folr the death of Ford GM and Chrysler. I can see it all now.

I fear we haven't seen anything yet. The worst is yet to come.

Anyway thats just my two cents and how I see it. I respect your right to disagree with me and wish us all luck. We're going to need it.

[mbabbitt]

Look I hate to admit it, it sucks to be an American blue collar worker no doubt......but I have to agree with Walter here.

He said it all pretty well.

Plain and simple we , the union are simply NOT in the drivers seat at this time and indeed may never be again.

Yes Ford is doing well right now, however, it has HUGE debt obligations coming in the future that because of bankruptcy GM and Chrysler simply do not have to worry about. Their debt for the most part was abolished via the courts.

So the fact is that Ford is already at a competitve disadvantage because of their debt, and that debt has to be repaid somehow.

We can scream about Upper Managements salaries, Mullally, Fields and the rest but I think we all agree that SOMEONE up there in Dearborn had to have SOMETHING to do with that success, and that comes with a price. Love him or hate him Mullally has Ford on the upswing and that skill costs money. Remember how Ford drfited along with no vision or leadership when we had those two guys who came after Nasser. They were so obscure I can't even remember their names right now.

The no strike thing is a red herring period. No way the UAW strikes Ford no way. If the abitrator allows GM or Chrysler to lower wages or drop health care or pensions, a very real possibility by the way,then can any of you imagine the union calling a strike against Ford over the same issue? At that point how could Ford compete with either of its rivals, when they have such an advantage.

It sucks I know. I hate it. But, it is what it is. Our fate is now tied to an arbitrator anyway.....it's just that no one talks about it.

Walter is also correct ...we are gonna take a HUGE PR hit over this. The public hates us now. Wait until Fox News convinces them that The UAW is preventing the rebuilding of American manufacturing and is responsible folr the death of Ford GM and Chrysler. I can see it all now.

I fear we haven't seen anything yet. The worst is yet to come.

Anyway thats just my two cents and how I see it. I respect your right to disagree with me and wish us all luck. We're going to need it.

we did not start this mess thay did, if there so broke WHY are thay spending 5 billion in china .india .mexico WAKE UP

[Grey Goose]

we did not start this mess thay did, if there so broke WHY are thay spending 5 billion in china .india .mexico WAKE UP

Because the market dictates that they do so. Ford or any automaker cannot afford to cede those markets and their advantages and potential sales volumes to all the other Auto Companies. It would be economic suicide.

Believe me, I am WIDE AWAKE. I suggest you start thinking with your head and not your emotions after you open your own eyes.

This is not your fathers world any longer.

As Thomas Friedman wrote....." The world is flat"

All we can do is deal with it.

[mbabbitt]

Because the market dictates that they do so. Ford or any automaker cannot afford to cede those markets and their advantages and potential sales volumes to all the other Auto Companies. It would be economic suicide.

Believe me, I am WIDE AWAKE. I suggest you start thinking with your head and not your emotions after you open your own eyes.

This is not your fathers world any longer.

As Thomas Friedman wrote....." The world is flat"

All we can do is deal with it.

ok there is a house across the street i know it is worth 200 thousand. but i can buy it for 100 thousand but i will not be able to make my payments if i invest in that house, there thinkin with my head ///////vote //////////////no///////

Edited October 30, 2009 by mbabbitt

[justnthrmushroom]

Because the market dictates that they do so. Ford or any automaker cannot afford to cede those markets and their advantages and potential sales volumes to all the other Auto Companies. It would be economic suicide.

Believe me, I am WIDE AWAKE. I suggest you start thinking with your head and not your emotions after you open your own eyes.

This is not your fathers world any longer.

As Thomas Friedman wrote....." The world is flat"

All we can do is deal with it.

 

Pal the freemarket economy and globalization are ignorant and irresponsible thoughts of the elite!

Friedman is nothing more than a right-wing mouthpiece for corporate america.

The only economic suicide going on is the sale of our governments to corporate thugs!

[lquidspine]

OK my real name is TheEagle. Not the one out of the five you're thinking but possibly one of the other four.

I really could care less who the hell you are, you post people respond you are suppose to respond.

 

That's how this game is played, sadly though every time myself or anyone gives the facts according to the contract the deflections start and none of you answer the questions in which we ask of you who support this trash.

 

I can debate and be civil if need be, i can be an asshole and do nothing but point out spelling faults or call people childish names as well.

 

Which do you prefer.

 

Just like the Eagle and Captain that have shown support for this I have tasked you with the language. You reply with pointing out a fact that i could give a shit about.

 

Stop deflecting and start proven me and others wrong, or please be silent and live with the fact that the membership is sick of sticking their heads in the sand.

[Marginal Economist]

Pal the freemarket economy and globalization are ignorant and irresponsible thoughts of the elite!

Friedman is nothing more than a right-wing mouthpiece for corporate america.

The only economic suicide going on is the sale of our governments to corporate thugs!

 

Friedman is a lib writer for the New York Times. His last book was about lessening dependence on the Middle East and climate change. Does not sound like a "right-wing mouthpiece for corporate america"

 

Think globalization is a myth?

Edited October 30, 2009 by Marginal Economist