97 F350 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 A front-wheel-drive crossover with the same exterior dimensions as a minivan and that has the same primary mission of a minivan of carrying a family is directly comparable to a minivan. A full-size van is not the same size as the six vehicles in this comparison, it does not have similar driving dynamics, it was not designed as a family car, it does not get the same gas mileage, it does not have modern safety technology, it does not ride or handle like a car. Is that distinction so stupefying that I've needed to post it multiple times, or do people just think they've independently reached this brilliance without reading the thread? Neither does a minivan. :shades: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No, I think it tells me a] that people don't have a grasp on the popular view of the crossover and b] that they don't like that the Ford didn't win. <sigh> This is one EVIL merry go round you're on. Round. And. Round. Just wondering how many tickets you're going to buy before you realize you're not getting anywhere here. I don't like the Camaro. I've driven one. That doesn't mean I'm going to go to a Camaro forum and talk about it's shortcomings and expect praise for a well written, well thought out review. Common sense, man. That, and your review is off. What about the benefits BESIDES cubic footage? I'm not even saying the Flex should be a shoe-in for first, but you are lacking in too many scoring areas. Saying "It's got more space" only tells one reason to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 and seriously DC, I do not mean to ride you, I just find it perurbing someone trying to justify a blatantly mis-guided comparison. Face it...FACT, someone that NEEDS a minivan will be sacrificing a LOT should they purchase any other type of vehicle, a minivan fuctionality is unsurpassed...buyers of the vehicle KNOW that like the back of their hands.....and if they need to be reminded of obvious differences then as Richard said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefstang Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Forest, meet trees. Apples, this is oranges. Everybody friendly? Good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 No, I think it tells me a] that people don't have a grasp on the popular view of the crossover and b] that they don't like that the Ford didn't win. I would say you are misguided on both counts...compare CUV's with CUV's and let the leaves fall where they may, and compare Mini-vans with mini-vans....simple....two TOTALLY different markets.....and the people that perhaps SHOULD have bought a mini-van based on their needs but cant handle the 'stigma" FULLY accept their choice and are FULLY aware of the potential shortcomings/ compromises they may experience. I think you are underestimating buyers intelligence..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Neither does a minivan. :shades: Sure they do. Like a big car, yes, but not like a truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Forest, meet trees. Apples, this is oranges. Everybody friendly? Good. EVERYBODY.....LETS SALSA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Sure they do. Like a big car, yes, but not like a truck. next up, 2010 Taurus vs Honda Odessey...stay tuned.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 is it so hard for YOU, to realize they are aimed at two entirely different niches of the market? and thus from different design spectrums????? hell, youre beleiving your own hype...did it actually take driving for YOU to note the differences, and note that u hey, lets compare a 4.0 Ranger with a V8 F-150....hey, that parallels your comparo....cept one could be veiwed as more "practical' of course....and its driving dynamics would be one hell of a lot more similar than a mini van and say the flex.... well said, Now please close the thread before he gets the last word in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 <sigh> This is one EVIL merry go round you're on. Round. And. Round. Just wondering how many tickets you're going to buy before you realize you're not getting anywhere here. I don't like the Camaro. I've driven one. That doesn't mean I'm going to go to a Camaro forum and talk about it's shortcomings and expect praise for a well written, well thought out review. Common sense, man. Does the term "circle jerk" mean anything to you? I wouldn't have joined this forum had I not seen some indication that folks here were a touch more open to criticism than, say, ToyotaNation (which I quit years ago) or Temple of Vtec (where I never even tried to go). Was I wrong? That, and your review is off. What about the benefits BESIDES cubic footage? I'm not even saying the Flex should be a shoe-in for first, but you are lacking in too many scoring areas. Saying "It's got more space" only tells one reason to buy. I'm pretty sure I laid those merits out pretty clearly. But the space (and price) differences are both huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 F350 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Sure they do. Like a big car, yes, but not like a truck. Yeah - you're right. Like a big wallowing Chrysler Cordoba from 1982 or whenever. But the Flex handles fairly close to a modern car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 I would say you are misguided on both counts...compare CUV's with CUV's and let the leaves fall where they may, and compare Mini-vans with mini-vans....simple....two TOTALLY different markets.....and the people that perhaps SHOULD have bought a mini-van based on their needs but cant handle the 'stigma" FULLY accept their choice and are FULLY aware of the potential shortcomings/ compromises they may experience. I think you are underestimating buyers intelligence..... If you want an idea of buyers' ignorance (it's not a question of intelligence) I recommend that you read both the questions and answers at the "buying and selling cars" section at Yahoo Answers. Put on your safety goggles if you don't want to be blinded with dozens of "my 1993 Honda went 250,000 miles without any problems, so I don't buy anything but a Honda and you shouldn't either." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 (edited) Does the term "circle jerk" mean anything to you? I wouldn't have joined this forum had I not seen some indication that folks here were a touch more open to criticism than, say, ToyotaNation (which I quit years ago) or Temple of Vtec (where I never even tried to go). Was I wrong? I'm pretty sure I laid those merits out pretty clearly. But the space (and price) differences are both huge. then make the criticism valid....and be welcomed with open arms..... :reading: Edited January 8, 2010 by Deanh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yeah - you're right. Like a big wallowing Chrysler Cordoba from 1982 or whenever. But the Flex handles fairly close to a modern car. As do the Odyssey, Sedona, Grand Caravan, and Sienna. (And the Traverse.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 then make the critism valid....and be welcomed with open arms..... :reading: Criticism: Ford discontinued its minivan and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars more than a minivan while offering a fraction of the practicality. Invalid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 As do the Odyssey, Sedona, Grand Caravan, and Sienna. (And the Traverse.) Boy, you don't quit do you? Like I said. If practicality is your primary concern, why on EARTH are you reviewing NEW cars?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 F350 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 As do the Odyssey, Sedona, Grand Caravan, and Sienna. (And the Traverse.) Nope. Huge difference. Only one I will give you possibly is the Odyssey since I didn't drive one. Didn't know the Traverse was a mini-van. Guess I am being edu-ma-cated here after all. Driving experience IS one of the things you give up when you get a minivan. Been there, done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Criticism: Ford discontinued its minivan and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars more than a minivan while offering a fraction of the practicality. Invalid? Freestar was a piece, and sales did not justify keeping it around...the Flex is NOT a minivan replacement, its more of a min-Expedition alternative.....the Flex has NOTHINg in common with mini-van design parameters.....sorry Dc...and FWIW, I would have called ANYONE out on such a ludicrous comparison.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97 F350 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Criticism: Ford discontinued its minivan and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars more than a minivan while offering a fraction of the practicality. Invalid? Yes. Criticism: Ford discontinued its minivan and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars than some minivans and less than others while offering most of the practicality and a much better driving experience. Fixed if for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardJensen Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Criticism: Ford discontinued its minivan and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars more than a minivan while offering a fraction of the practicality. Invalid? Will this be you next year? Criticism: Ford discontinued its body on frame SUV and replaced it with a vehicle that costs thousands of dollars more than a SUV while offering a fraction of the practicality. Invalid? Fact: The Freestar was woefully uncompetitive, had a low transaction price, and was replaced by the Edge, MKX, and the Flex. Three vehicles that sell, in aggregate, for a far higher transaction price, and better volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Ford chose to get their basic volume products right and profitable, I commend them for their dedication. Volume products are priority one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 As do the Odyssey, Sedona, Grand Caravan, and Sienna. (And the Traverse.) driven em all, barring the Traverse...they most definitely do NOT handle anywhere near like a flex...and dare I say the traverse....and FYI, judging by trade ins I would also question how well the vans hold together, I have had first hand experience with used Odesseys and Grand Caravans and older Siennas, and they ALL felt like they were falling apart....victim of large sliders perhaps....the Sienna was the scariest, followed by the GC....Honda was better but rattly, and NOISY....granted this is used and perhaps they have improved their sound insulation, BUT dare i say the Flex in particular trumps them ALL on the db scale.....let alone driving dynamics.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron W. Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hard to beleive this (ummm) debate has gone to 12 pages. :reading: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 driven em all, barring the Traverse...they most definitely do NOT handle anywhere near like a flex...and dare I say the traverse....and FYI, judging by trade ins I would also question how well the vans hold together, I have had first hand experience with used Odesseys and Grand Caravans and older Siennas, and they ALL felt like they were falling apart....victim of large sliders perhaps....the Sienna was the scariest, followed by the GC....Honda was better but rattly, and NOISY....granted this is used and perhaps they have improved their sound insulation, BUT dare i say the Flex in particular trumps them ALL on the db scale.....let alone driving dynamics.... I've driven them all too. What makes your experience more valid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Car Examiner Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 Yes. Fixed if for you. It's inarguably inaccurate that the Flex is less money than any comparably-equipped minivan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.