Toyota's "Fix" Not Solving Problem?

[V8-X]

If found to be true, this could be some damning info. But we already knew about these "service campaigns", now didn't we.

 

Fumio Matsuda, founder of the Japan Automobile Consumer Union and called the Ralph Nader of Japan, said Toyota conducted "secret recalls," by calling car owners in for a checkup in which a defective part was replaced.

 

Concerning Toyota's

recall of more than 6 million vehicles since October: "I believe there will eventually be criminal charges. They knew there were problems with their cars, but they didn't do anything," he said.

 

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/03/08/Toyota-warned-about-quality-problems/UPI-77091268073726/

Edited March 8, 2010 by V8-X

[Mark B. Morrow]

M-M-M-MY TOYOTA

 

[CKNSLS]

1. A car that has experienced SUA has the recall fix applied

2. The fix does not address the root cause of the SUA (based on the theory that it's the ETS and not the pedal or floormats)

3. Car experiences SUA again after fix.

 

Why is that scenario so hard to believe?

 

All I am saying is that we would see a REAL DISASTER where I live if this were as widespread as some on this board would leave you to believe.

 

And that's just not happening.

 

Don't know where they stand now - but in '06 they had over a 25% market share. I would guesstimate it still has to be in excess of 20 per-cent.

 

http://wardsdealer.com/ar/auto_toyotas_market_share/

 

And from personal observation, I can tell you the VAST MAJORITY of these vehicles are Corollas and Camry.

Edited March 8, 2010 by CKNSLS

[CKNSLS]

So, when someone is murdered, and the police are unable to find the killer, does that mean that the person wasn't actually murdered? Because that's the logic you're using.

 

SUA complaints on Toyotas outnumber all other manufacturers combined. SUA complaints skyrocketed after Toyota started installing electronic throttles, and SUA events have occurred when floormats were not in vehicles.

 

Per Toyota's own records, 70% of the SUA complaints they have received involve vehicles that have not been recalled.

 

----

 

What you're saying is, 'sure the guy was shot five times, but I find it very difficult to believe that the police would knowingly let a killer run loose, therefore, this must have been a very elaborate suicide.'

 

So I was talking after the recall was performed. No one is denying there is problem. We are talking about some saying it is happening again (SA) AFTER THE Recall and Toyota denying it.

[TomServo92]

All I am saying is that we would see a REAL DISASTER where I live if this were as widespread as some on this board would leave you to believe.

 

And that's just not happening.

 

How many that have actually exhibited SUA is irrelevant. It's the potential that all of them could is what is important.

[soupy]

Wonder what the odds are that 4 members of one family would have been killed in the same death trap, er I mean car.

 

Apparently not big enough.

[CKNSLS]

How many that have actually exhibited SUA is irrelevant. It's the potential that all of them could is what is important.

 

Yea, and EVERY CAR could potentially suffer a blowout if the tires are not inflated correctly. So let's recall ALL cars with tires and make sure they have the right PSI.

[RichardJensen]

So I was talking after the recall was performed. No one is denying there is problem. We are talking about some saying it is happening again (SA) AFTER THE Recall and Toyota denying it.

Fair enough. Replace one murder victim with several killed in the same fashion, after a suspect has been arrested.

 

Understand, I do not think that Toyota is LYING about the cause of this issue, I think, more disturbingly, that they don't know how to diagnose what's going on.

Edited March 9, 2010 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Yea, and EVERY CAR could potentially suffer a blowout if the tires are not inflated correctly. So let's recall ALL cars with tires and make sure they have the right PSI.

They did recall EVERY Explorer within the treadlife of those Firestone tires for EXACTLY that reason.

 

And that's why they've mandated TPMS & stability control.

Edited March 9, 2010 by RichardJensen

[Monkey]

So I was talking after the recall was performed. No one is denying there is problem. We are talking about some saying it is happening again (SA) AFTER THE Recall and Toyota denying it.

How will repairing a pedal that "sticks" or "is slow to return" fix the problem? The problem is sudden acceleration not suddenly going the same speed or takes a hell of a long time to return to idle.

[CKNSLS]

Fair enough. Replace one murder victim with several killed in the same fashion, after a suspect has been arrested.

 

Understand, I do not think that Toyota is LYING about the cause of this issue, I think, more disturbingly, that they don't know how to diagnose what's going on.

 

IF IT IS ELECTRONIC and they don't know how to fix it-that's pretty scary. So your talking about either internal (on-board) electrical interference OR external interference. This could (if your right) partially explain them unable to diagnose and repair.

 

OR- a software anomaly.

[RichardJensen]

IF IT IS ELECTRONIC and they don't know how to fix it-that's pretty scary. So your talking about either internal (on-board) electrical interference OR external interference. This could (if your right) partially explain them unable to diagnose and repair.

 

OR- a software anomaly.

Exactly.

 

IMO, they are too hung up on duplicating the real world scenario(s) that are causing this. What they should be doing is building off what Prof. Gilbert did: they should be trying to find every conceivable scenario that results in WOT and no error code, and eliminating them one by one either through a change in sensor hardware, a change in wiring, or a change in programming--subsequently testing the fixes rigorously.

 

But I don't think they 'think' that way at Toyota. One of the key principles that Deming espoused was that a company's process itself should always be subject to refinement, and I think that Toyota has made many of its processes sacred--that it is not acceptable, for instance, to suggest that Toyota's testing protocols are insufficient.

 

Based on comments made by Inaba & Toyoda at the House hearings, they are 'running tests around the clock and are 100% confident in the electronics'. This is a conclusion that, I think, is statistically unjustified. This has happened too often to too many different cars to be written off as pedal misapplication or pedal entrapment, which are the only explanations Toyota has offered for sudden acceleration.

Edited March 9, 2010 by RichardJensen

[TomServo92]

Yea, and EVERY CAR could potentially suffer a blowout if the tires are not inflated correctly. So let's recall ALL cars with tires and make sure they have the right PSI.

 

Except that's not a design flaw.

[V8-X]

How many that have actually exhibited SUA is irrelevant. It's the potential that all of them could is what is important.

How many fires were contributed to the Ford CC switch? They recalled roughly 14 million vehicles simply because they had the "potential" to catch fire, even in models that had the switch but never once were reported as causing a fire. So why shouldn't Toyota find the problem and recall every last car that could "potentially" be impacted?

 

They did recall EVERY Explorer within the treadlife of those Firestone tires for EXACTLY that reason.

 

And that's why they've mandated TPMS & stability control.

Exactly!

 

They fixed the problem (tire replacement) and vehicle safety was improved in on newer models. A win-win situation if you ask me, if if it costs a little more for vehicles now.

[TomServo92]

How many fires were contributed to the Ford CC switch? They recalled roughly 14 million vehicles simply because they had the "potential" to catch fire, even in models that had the switch but never once were reported as causing a fire. So why shouldn't Toyota find the problem and recall every last car that could "potentially" be impacted?

 

Precisely!