AP IMPACT: Toyota uses questionable legal tactics

[forddaughter]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100411/ap_on_bi_ge/us_toyota_legal_tactics

[timmm55]

This general attitude of non-disclosure, combined with Exponent Inc. (the company you go to explain why asbestos is good for you) and SMART (the invasive tool to short circuit Customer's Initial Complaints).....................

 

I wonder how anyone can trust this company?????????????

 

They sandbag, lie and intimidate. What a business plan!

[SVTDarkCobra]

It is not surprising at all.

 

"Before the accident, I thought that was the nicest car I ever owned. Now I think Toyota's interest is only in the bottom line, period, and they don't care about safety," Elmes said in a telephone interview. "I wouldn't take another Toyota if they gave it to me."

 

A new member to the team. I like it.

[RichardJensen]

"Automobile manufacturers, in my practice, have been the toughest to deal with when it comes to sharing information, but Toyota has no peer," said attorney Ernest Cannon, who represented the family of 35-year-old Lisa Evans, who died in 2002 in the Houston suburb of Sugar Land.

 

In cases like this, the cover up is usually much worse than the initial offense.

 

Why?

 

A cover up implies ongoing wrongdoing.

 

Put this way: Let's say Acme makes a defective widget. They discover this defect and change the way they manufacture widgets, but fail to inform existing widget owners.

 

That's a single action, a single decision made in the past. They can distance themselves from that action by disclosing it and settling with impacted customers.

 

However, if they repeatedly deny that they knew of the defect, then you're no longer dealing with a single decision made in the past. You're dealing with a series of decisions that extends down into the present.

 

Even if they're no longer manufacturing the defective product, they are still dealing deceptively with their customers and the public at large. I don't know if Toyota's executives grasp the ramifications of that course of conduct, especially in a nation with a healthy--perhaps too healthy--tort system.

 

Toyota will pay a far heavier price for these cover ups than they would've ever paid had they leveled with plaintiffs to begin with.

Edited April 11, 2010 by RichardJensen

[CKNSLS]

In cases like this, the cover up is usually much worse than the initial offense.

 

Why?

 

A cover up implies ongoing wrongdoing.

 

Put this way: Let's say Acme makes a defective widget. They discover this defect and change the way they manufacture widgets, but fail to inform existing widget owners.

 

That's a single action, a single decision made in the past. They can distance themselves from that action by disclosing it and settling with impacted customers.

 

However, if they repeatedly deny that they knew of the defect, then you're no longer dealing with a single decision made in the past. You're dealing with a series of decisions that extends down into the present.

 

Even if they're no longer manufacturing the defective product, they are still dealing deceptively with their customers and the public at large. I don't know if Toyota's executives grasp the ramifications of that course of conduct, especially in a nation with a healthy--perhaps too healthy--tort system.

 

Toyota will pay a far heavier price for these cover ups than they would've ever paid had they leveled with plaintiffs to begin with.

 

If they are guilty they need to pay the price. However, let's not forget denial in of itself, is a legal tactic. Other car makers have used it....

 

In addition the guy is in his 70s. Does Toyota have access to his medical records attesting to his ability to drive a car at that age? JUST ASKING!

Edited April 11, 2010 by CKNSLS

[kenp77]

In cases like this, the cover up is usually much worse than the initial offense.

 

Why?

 

A cover up implies ongoing wrongdoing.

 

Put this way: Let's say Acme makes a defective widget. They discover this defect and change the way they manufacture widgets, but fail to inform existing widget owners.

 

That's a single action, a single decision made in the past. They can distance themselves from that action by disclosing it and settling with impacted customers.

 

However, if they repeatedly deny that they knew of the defect, then you're no longer dealing with a single decision made in the past. You're dealing with a series of decisions that extends down into the present.

 

Even if they're no longer manufacturing the defective product, they are still dealing deceptively with their customers and the public at large. I don't know if Toyota's executives grasp the ramifications of that course of conduct, especially in a nation with a healthy--perhaps too healthy--tort system.

 

Toyota will pay a far heavier price for these cover ups than they would've ever paid had they leveled with plaintiffs to begin with.

Rich: U have described almost to a T how ford has handled the spark plug and cam phaser issue in the 04-07 5.4 3V engines, so I am guessing most all auto makers have used this tactic before and will again!!

[timmm55]

 

 

In addition the guy is in his 70s. Does Toyota have access to his medical records attesting to his ability to drive a car at that age? JUST ASKING!

 

NO they sure as F^CK DON'T! And why should they?

 

So now every octogenarian is guilty until proven innocent? Toyota just started SMART (a very questionable tactic legally) now they should have private medical records too!

 

You and Toyota seem to think they are entitled! This where you've gone too far. I want to see your SATs, your bank statement, Credit Score....everything. I'll be able to prove whatever outcome I desire.. I used to think Toyota was just a greedy car company that built boring cars. Now I think they are dangerous with too much power.

Edited April 11, 2010 by timmm55

[RichardJensen]

You guys don't get it, do you?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_%28law%29

 

You can OBJECT to the production of documents, but you CANNOT DENY THEIR EXISTENCE.

The issue is not that Toyota has OBJECTED TO DISCOVERY. It is that they LIED ABOUT DOCUMENTS IN THEIR POSSESSION.

 

See this:

 

http://www.spinal-cord.org/news/spinal-injury-news036.htm

 

Ford PRODUCED DOCUMENTS DURING DISCOVERY.

 

They objected to producing these documents, and they had them sealed, but they PRODUCED THEM. They DID NOT DENY THEIR EXISTENCE!

 

GET IT?

 

That's just what the internet needs. Two more morons who can't read and think they know everything.

[RichardJensen]

It's been a long time since I was so tempted to use the F-bomb. You two just amaze me with your inability to comprehend the difference between LYING about a document and DEBATING its relevance.

 

Did you even READ the article?

 

Abso-frickin-lutely unbelievable.

[timmm55]

Richard is right. That's where the coflict with Toyota lies. There's a disconnect from most of the imports. What they do in Corporate Japan is not accessible to US law enforcemement, a least not directly. there's a LOT of hoops to go through for a foreign company...and Toyota is taking extreme liberties with OUR laws.

[timmm55]

It's been a long time since I was so tempted to use the F-bomb. You two just amaze me with your inability to comprehend the difference between LYING about a document and DEBATING its relevance.

 

Did you even READ the article?

 

Abso-frickin-lutely unbelievable.

 

 

You too who?

 

I see two issues:1) the supression/omission/falsification of Discovery Documents and 2) SMART, ie. Witness Tampering

[RichardJensen]

kenp & cknsls

[CKNSLS]

kenp & cknsls

 

I guess it depends on your definition of a moron. I personally don't believe in name calling. If I did, I would have done that a long time ago for people who troll the internet and posting alleged SUA events on cars that are 10 years old with over 100,000 miles on them.....

[CKNSLS]

This general attitude of non-disclosure, combined with Exponent Inc. (the company you go to explain why asbestos is good for you) and SMART (the invasive tool to short circuit Customer's Initial Complaints).....................

 

I wonder how anyone can trust this company?????????????

 

They sandbag, lie and intimidate. What a business plan!

 

Yea, just like Enron, and a myriad of other companies (oil companies, banks, Car dealers, insurance companies, etc., etc.)

Edited April 12, 2010 by CKNSLS

[timmm55]

Yea, just like Enron.............

 

Maybe you're getting it? Toyota's, like Enron's lies weren't just the typical corporate puffery........their actions were/are ILLEGAL. That is the difference between other automobile manufacturers and Toyota.

[kenp77]

Rich: First I am not a TROLL secondly I was responding to your analogy using widgets in your first 2 paragraphs, is exactly what ford did on the plug issue, which u can not defend, granted it is not a safety issue but it cost a lot of people a lot of money and that is just a fact.

[CKNSLS]

Rich: First I am not a TROLL secondly I was responding to your analogy using widgets in your first 2 paragraphs, is exactly what ford did on the plug issue, which u can not defend, granted it is not a safety issue but it cost a lot of people a lot of money and that is just a fact.

 

I personally don't see how "ken" can be a troll with over 400 posts.

 

I think the new definition of a troll here is one where Ford does no wrong......and if you disagree you are a "troll".

[papilgee4evaeva]

I personally don't see how "ken" can be a troll with over 400 posts.

 

You're new here, aren't you... someone will have to fill you in on some of our past posters.

 

I think the new definition of a troll here is one where Ford does no wrong......and if you disagree you are a "troll".

 

Nah, we'd define a troll as "someone who brings up Ford issues from 3+ years ago in order to deflect the attention from whatever the current topic is."

 

Most wouldn't call you yourself a troll... a persistent Toyota apologist, maybe, but not a troll.

[CKNSLS]

You're new here, aren't you... someone will have to fill you in on some of our past posters.

 

 

 

Nah, we'd define a troll as "someone who brings up Ford issues from 3+ years ago in order to deflect the attention from whatever the current topic is."

 

Most wouldn't call you yourself a troll... a persistent Toyota apologist, maybe, but not a troll.

 

I am glad I am not a "troll". BTW-The only reason I bring up any other automakers issues from the past, is simply because of the fact it is quite obvious from some who post here is that they don't know the past transgressions of other auto makers. (it's always Toyota, Toyota, Toyota!) I am sure it's because of their ages. Not a bad thing..it is what it is.

[kenp77]

I am glad I am not a "troll". BTW-The only reason I bring up any other automakers issues from the past, is simply because of the fact it is quite obvious from some who post here is that they don't know the past transgressions of other auto makers. (it's always Toyota, Toyota, Toyota!) I am sure it's because of their ages. Not a bad thing..it is what it is.

U made my point here exactly, also I am not deflecting blame toyo needs to correct their problems and make it right which by the way ford did not do nor will they ever do, we all need to remember that toyo makes jobs for many american workers also.

[CKNSLS]

U made my point here exactly, also I am not deflecting blame toyo needs to correct their problems and make it right which by the way ford did not do nor will they ever do, we all need to remember that toyo makes jobs for many american workers also.

 

Welcome to "The Fray" Ken!

[MY93SHO]

Alright CNKSLS and kenp77, let's stop this tap dancing nonsense.

 

This thread isn't about Ford.

 

It's not even about the pedal recall.

 

It's about Toyota's lousy tactics. Plain and simple. They are just as crooked as any other large company. In this case they may be worse!

 

it doesn't matter if a person is a Ford fan, a GM fan, a Mopar fan, or any other brand. They all are happy that Toyota is starting to get their just desserts.

 

People that are not apologists are tired of dumb ass Toyota fans bragging how their "beigemobile" is the best in the world.

 

Their tired of hearing "I traded my Ford/GM/Mopar in on a Toyota and it gets 500mpg and never needs service. Suuurrree, the service bays at Toyota dealers are full of cobwebs and the techs play Texas Hold'em all day!

 

This is a FORD site first. If you don'y like how your precious Toyota is treated here don't read the threads or LEAVE!

 

Toyota is getting what they deserve and they may have more coming.

 

And stop preaching to everyone like you're their mother. I think we all can decide for ourselves how we feel and we don't need a sermon from you two.

[CKNSLS]

Alright CNKSLS and kenp77, let's stop this tap dancing nonsense.

 

This thread isn't about Ford.

 

It's not even about the pedal recall.

 

It's about Toyota's lousy tactics. Plain and simple. They are just as crooked as any other large company. In this case they may be worse!

 

it doesn't matter if a person is a Ford fan, a GM fan, a Mopar fan, or any other brand. They all are happy that Toyota is starting to get their just desserts.

 

People that are not apologists are tired of dumb ass Toyota fans bragging how their "beigemobile" is the best in the world.

 

Their tired of hearing "I traded my Ford/GM/Mopar in on a Toyota and it gets 500mpg and never needs service. Suuurrree, the service bays at Toyota dealers are full of cobwebs and the techs play Texas Hold'em all day!

 

This is a FORD site first. If you don'y like how your precious Toyota is treated here don't read the threads or LEAVE!

 

Toyota is getting what they deserve and they may have more coming.

 

And stop preaching to everyone like you're their mother. I think we all can decide for ourselves how we feel and we don't need a sermon from you two.

 

"People that are not apologists are tired of dumb ass Toyota fans bragging how their "beigemobile" is the best in the world."

 

Your right about that. People on this board couldn't see straight when Toyota sales were up 40% in March.

 

I am not going to leave. I feel the LOVE on this board

[RichardJensen]

I guess it depends on your definition of a moron. I personally don't believe in name calling. If I did, I would have done that a long time ago for people who troll the internet and posting alleged SUA events on cars that are 10 years old with over 100,000 miles on them.....

A moron either reads the article about TOYOTA VIOLATING CIVIL PROCEDURE and completely misses the point, or doesn't read the article and spouts off anyway.

 

Rich: First I am not a TROLL secondly I was responding to your analogy using widgets in your first 2 paragraphs, is exactly what ford did on the plug issue, which u can not defend, granted it is not a safety issue but it cost a lot of people a lot of money and that is just a fact.

 

You show me evidence that Ford has LIED DURING A CIVIL PROCEEDING over the spark plug issue and you've got a point. Otherwise, shut up. This is about Toyota lying to a US judge.

 

And as far as 'trolling' goes, ken brought that term up, I didn't. I said that you were both morons, based on your inability to comprehend English--or your willingness to speak without knowledge.

Edited April 12, 2010 by RichardJensen

[97svtgoin05gt]

 

FWIW, comparing spark plug issues with cars speeding out of control and resulting in deaths when the manufacturing company denies and covers up is completely stupid. They aren't even in the same solar system as far as issues are concerned.

 

My opinion.