Ford's bigger idea: A not so green jumbo SUV

[robertlane]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../512120355/1148

[FRdesign]

Pics????

[J-150]

"Jumbo" and "Bigger" are misleading.

 

its an extended length Expedition... and exisiting vehicle with existing powertrains.

[Blueblood]

This bigger longer Expy better have a bigger more powerful engine, the current expy is already woefully underpowered.

[NickF1011]

This bigger longer Expy better have a bigger more powerful engine, the current expy is already woefully underpowered.

 

Eh. The Navigator is WORLDS better in performance using the exact same engine. The difference is in the 6-speed automatic. Another 20-30 HP from the 5.4 3V certainly wouldn't hurt matters though.

[PolarBear]

Eh. The Navigator is WORLDS better in performance using the exact same engine. The difference is in the 6-speed automatic. Another 20-30 HP from the 5.4 3V certainly wouldn't hurt matters though.

 

An Escalade still blows a Navi into the weeds off of a stoplight- although it hasn't hurt the Navis sales too much. It's just embarrassing- overhead cams, high tech, state-of-the-art, golden paper specs...and gets blasted both in real world performance and gas mileage by a old-style OHV V8. We would have been ahead if we'd just left the old 351 in the thing and added the Lightening's blower to it- seriously. The bigger Expy will be welcome, but there are a lot of issues in that design that need to be addressed before it's really competitive with the Generals offerings.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[NickF1011]

An Escalade still blows a Navi into the weeds off of a stoplight- although it hasn't hurt the Navis sales too much. It's just embarrassing- overhead cams, high tech, state-of-the-art, golden paper specs...and gets blasted both in real world performance and gas mileage by a old-style OHV V8. We would have been ahead if we'd just left the old 351 in the thing and added the Lightening's blower to it- seriously. The bigger Expy will be welcome, but there are a lot of issues in that design that need to be addressed before it's really competitive with the Generals offerings.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

Yes. If it's common practice to race Escalades at red lights, then sure, the Navigator needs more power. I just don't get it these days. Why do huge vehicles need to be fast? They're ALL faster than they were just 5-6 years ago, but I guess that's not good enough anymore. Some soccer mom in her Expedition needs to be able to drive it like Danica Patrick in order to feel safe I guess. :rolleyes:

[PolarBear]

Yes. If it's common practice to race Escalades at red lights, then sure, the Navigator needs more power. I just don't get it these days. Why do huge vehicles need to be fast? They're ALL faster than they were just 5-6 years ago, but I guess that's not good enough anymore. Some soccer mom in her Expedition needs to be able to drive it like Danica Patrick in order to feel safe I guess. :rolleyes:

 

Why do huge vehicles have to be fast? In the case of the Escalade and the Navigator- because they can be. The folks that buy them don't need them, they just want them. That's like asking why Chevy would bring out a Z06 when a stock Corvette is faster than any sane person would drive on the street.

 

When we get to the Expedition, though, we've got different issues. Forget about the fast part- hook the advertised max trailer weight behind an Expy, head up Mt. Hood, and you'll get passed by...well, just about everything. <_< More to the point, merge on a freeway with an Expy, mash the throttle, and a number of things happen:

1) the drive-by-wire system tries to figure out what to do

2) the transmission chooses a gear (usually the wrong one)

3) By the time all that happens, you're already on the brakes looking for the next opening. :angry:

 

By comparison, a Tahoe or Suburban will throw you back into the seat and launch. Owned both the Expy and a number of 'Burbs, BTW. Not to say the Expy isn't without merit, but the powertrain, suspension, and driveline escaped R&D without being completed. That's the only possible explanation for the howling Rr ends, driveline noises and clunks, steering nibble, etc that's plagued that model from day one. The Expy could be a class leader. Dammit- it should have been the class leader, but the ball really got dropped.

Edited December 20, 2005 by PolarBear

[01FOCI]

Why do huge vehicles have to be fast? In the case of the Escalade and the Navigator- because they can be. The folks that buy them don't need them, they just want them. That's like asking why Chevy would bring out a Z06 when a stock Corvette is faster than any sane person would drive on the street.

 

When we get to the Expedition, though, we've got different issues. Forget about the fast part- hook the advertised max trailer weight behind an Expy, head up Mt. Hood, and you'll get passed by...well, just about everything. <_< More to the point, merge on a freeway with an Expy, mash the throttle, and a number of things happen:

1) the drive-by-wire system tries to figure out what to do

2) the transmission chooses a gear (usually the wrong one)

3) By the time all that happens, you're already on the brakes looking for the next opening. :angry:

 

By comparison, a Tahoe or Suburban will throw you back into the seat and launch. Owned both the Expy and a number of 'Burbs, BTW. Not to say the Expy isn't without merit, but the powertrain, suspension, and driveline escaped R&D without being completed. That's the only possible explanation for the howling Rr ends, driveline noises and clunks, steering nibble, etc that's plagued that model from day one. The Expy could be a class leader. Dammit- it should have been the class leader, but the ball really got dropped.

 

 

I would venture say the money trolls at Ford had their way with enginering, I cannot beleive that American engineers are substandard to the rest of the world or we would not be a super power right now...

[Doug78]

Why do huge vehicles have to be fast? In the case of the Escalade and the Navigator- because they can be. The folks that buy them don't need them, they just want them. That's like asking why Chevy would bring out a Z06 when a stock Corvette is faster than any sane person would drive on the street.

 

When we get to the Expedition, though, we've got different issues. Forget about the fast part- hook the advertised max trailer weight behind an Expy, head up Mt. Hood, and you'll get passed by...well, just about everything. <_< More to the point, merge on a freeway with an Expy, mash the throttle, and a number of things happen:

1) the drive-by-wire system tries to figure out what to do

2) the transmission chooses a gear (usually the wrong one)

3) By the time all that happens, you're already on the brakes looking for the next opening. :angry:

 

By comparison, a Tahoe or Suburban will throw you back into the seat and launch. Owned both the Expy and a number of 'Burbs, BTW. Not to say the Expy isn't without merit, but the powertrain, suspension, and driveline escaped R&D without being completed. That's the only possible explanation for the howling Rr ends, driveline noises and clunks, steering nibble, etc that's plagued that model from day one. The Expy could be a class leader. Dammit- it should have been the class leader, but the ball really got dropped.

I have a 01 expo with a 5.4 V8 and i was at a red light next to a 2000 Tahoe and next thing i know i was looking at his tail lights. I actually floored the gas. Those expos need more power or something.

[ludakris04]

what was wrong with the Excursion?

[PolarBear]

what was wrong with the Excursion?

 

Too big, too tall.... just too much. Nothing wrong with the way it drove and hauled, though.

[Btravelen]

Too big, too tall.... just too much. Nothing wrong with the way it drove and hauled, though.

 

 

Just right for a lot of folks, including me. Family of five and a small dog, towing a 10,000 lb 31 ft trailer lotsa miles every year.

 

I realize the market wasn't large enough to support the model. I wouldn't own one if I didn't use it like we do.

 

Take Care

[sa_seahawker]

I'm just curious, but if the technology exists to cram anywhere from 250-300 hp from a 4-banger and have those motors still reliable enough for mass production...howcome Ford doesn't apply those priciples to the V8s?

 

I think Ford needs to have a job fair but only hire people that have no design experience but realistic ideas like:

 

"Hey, dont ya think that back of the mustang is a little plain, maybe we should go with the concept instead"

 

and

 

"Hey, the exposed frame underneath the new Explorer is kinda ugly...maybe we should come up with a better idea to conceal it so it doesnt look like we put a backpacking box ontop of a frame and bolted it down with 4 bolts?"

 

and my personal favorite:

 

"Hey, super-duty, expedition, explorer, edge...can we pick a design cue please?" (with regards to the 07 expy)

 

Sorry to vent, I'm looking to buy an 04 expy, btw.

Edited February 6, 2006 by sa_seahawker